Butterflyleo:


You and budaatum are speaking about an abstract known in mathematics. My OP is not dealing with abstracts but reality of the universe. Or is the universe you know abstract?

I am not going to define God to you. My OP is not about Yahweh or Allah but about GOD.

so what you are saying is that the "GOD" in your Op is different from Yahweh ?

superhumanist:


If God is uncaused, then, nothing caused him. He literally came from nothing. God just exists. He created himself

Is God as you refer to existing on this plain of our universe as a scientifically observable entity? If yes then your statement is correct but if no then you are simply being your usual dumb self

darkchild64:


so what you are saying is that the "GOD" in your Op is different from Yahweh ?

What I am saying is God is the uncaused cause. I know you want me to separate them into what you can argue from but sorry my OP denies you that right and so do i

darkchild64:

so you want us to walk down this path
alright,if that be the case I equally choose to eliminate the universe from what your statement covers,
"the universe and the laws that govern it are the UNCAUSED CAUSE that cannot be CAUSED"

hence the need for a creator becomes unnecessary

Sorry but science already declared that the universe has a beginning. So your ignorant declaration falls flat

Is their no atheist who can refute the OP?

Butterflyleo:


What I am saying is God is the uncaused cause. I know you want me to separate them into what you can argue from but sorry my OP denies you that right and so do i

well I guess that is what your guilty conscience is telling you but I will let you off the hook,I will play by your rules,I will only mention "God" and not Yahweh or Allah

now first off,since you claim "God" created the universe,you mind telling us how and how long he did it ?,backing that up with a few evidences would help

Butterflyleo:


Sorry but science already declared that the universe has a beginning. So your ignorant declaration falls flat

and since science does not acknowledge that "God" is the uncaused cause you are equally ignorant and your declaration falls flat

darkchild64:

well I guess that is what your guilty conscience is telling you but I will let you off the hook,I will play by your rules,I will only mention "God" and not Yahweh or Allah

now first off,since you claim "God" created the universe,you mind telling us how and how long he did it ?,backing that up with a few evidences would help

Sorry but this thread is not about HOW but a simple analytical presentation using science on how the argument from causality and motion and gravity support intelligent, deliberate, purposeful origins unlike the chaotic origins being touted by science.

darkchild64:


I wonder the "science" you are referring to,besides I am speaking for my self I never said science is my religion,so don't judge me with it

Well you cannot speak for yourself because if you do, you would sound even more stupid as an atheist. This is because atheism thrives on empirical evidence and proofs to what they assert and in this case, science offers the much needed proof atheists cling to and science has shown that the universe has a beginning and isn't eternal.

Butterflyleo:


You do not even realise how intellectually dishonest you have been with your arguments. With me you talk about a big bang which in itself talks about a beginning of the universe. With vaxx you talk about an eternal universe. Why not stand on one ground instead of jumping back and forth like a confused human.

If you say the big bang has been proven then explain why other scientists are still pushing for the eternal universe hypothesis aka the multiverse hypothesis?

Shouldn't the entire scientific world agree that this has been proven?

I stand by the big bang. My discussion with vaxx was me trying to point out that since vaxx doesn't believe infinite regression then to him there must be an uncaused caused who either came out of nothing or has always been there from the beginning. If he has no problem believing that, will he have a problem believing that the universe is the uncaused cause?

Mtewwwwwww

Butterflyleo:
Is their no atheist who can refute the OP?

I refuted your first proof using the knowledge of gravity.

Butterflyleo:


Sorry but this thread is not about HOW but a simple analytical presentation using science on how the argument from causality and motion and gravity support intelligent, deliberate, purposeful origins unlike the chaotic origins being touted by science.

can you describe how "God" created the universe ?

if you can go ahead,if not admit so,I am not going with this rubbish excuses

Butterflyleo:


Well you cannot speak for yourself because if you do, you would sound even more stupid as an atheist. This is because atheism thrives on empirical evidence and proofs to what they assert and in this case, science offers the much needed proof atheists cling to and science has shown that the universe has a beginning and isn't eternal.

I modified the post you quoted check it out

Martinez19:
I stand by the big bang. My discussion with vaxx was me trying to point out that since vaxx doesn't believe infinite regression then to him there must be an uncaused caused who either came out of nothing or has always been there from the beginning. If he has no problem believing that, will he have a problem believing that the universe is the uncaused cause?

Mtewwwwwww

Why are you lying?

You cannot argue from both sides of your mouth over one thing. You cannot talk about the big bang with me and then turn around to present an eternal universe to vaxx even if vaxx was thinking along those lines. You are meant to stick with your argument. It shows you are being intellectually dishonest and do not even know anything you are presenting but simply wish to just type.

There is an uncaused cause and a very intelligent one at that because infinite regression is nullified scientifically when it comes to the origin of the universe and even you support that the universe has an origin since you say you believe in the big bang.

Did this beginning of the universe trigger itself? NO

How do I know this? The law of cause and effect confirms it. There can be no cause without effect and no effect without a cause. Unintelligence cannot birth intelligence. Inanimate objects cannot create motion, sequence, order, calculated actions.

Deny this and deny science.

darkchild64:


can you describe how "God" created the universe ?

if you can go ahead,if not admit so,I am not going with this rubbish excuses

I can but choose not to because that is not the purpose of the OP so you can stop trying to derail

darkchild64:


and since science does not acknowledge that "God" is the uncaused cause you are equally ignorant and your declaration falls flat

Dummy. Science is based on empirical proofs limited to this universe. God exists OUTSIDE our universe which is why he is called THE UNCAUSED CAUSE AND THE IMMUTABLE MOVER.

Martinez19:
I refuted your first proof using the knowledge of gravity.

You didn't not even scratch it

So this deluded OP has scientific proof of God's existence, and he hasn't presented it to the scientific community and won a Nobel prize for it abi? No wonder they say religion makes people mentally ill.

Butterflyleo:


There can be no cause without effect and there can be no effect without cause.

U confidently make this statement but funny enough when comes to the creator which u have never seen before u make an exception.

Butterflyleo:


Why are you lying?

You cannot argue from both sides of your mouth over one thing. You cannot talk about the big bang with me and then turn around to present an eternal universe to vaxx even if vaxx was thinking along those lines. You are meant to stick with your argument. It shows you are being intellectually dishonest and do not even know anything you are presenting but simply wish to just type.

There is an uncaused cause and a very intelligent one at that because infinite regression is nullified scientifically when it comes to the origin of the universe and even you support that the universe has an origin since you say you believe in the big bang.

Did this beginning of the universe trigger itself? NO

How do I know this? The law of cause and effect confirms it. There can be no cause without effect and no effect without a cause. Unintelligence cannot birth intelligence. Inanimate objects cannot create motion, sequence, order, calculated actions.

Deny this and deny science.

I am not intellectually dishonest, you are. I admit, even before vaxx, that I believe the big bang. You distort arguments so much.

frank317:


U confidently make this statement but funny enough when comes to the creator which u have never seen before u make an exception.

He is a joker

Dalam0n:
So this deluded OP has scientific proof of God's existence, and he hasn't presented it to the scientific community and won a Nobel prize for it abi? No wonder they say religion makes people mentally ill.

Actually religion has made me more intelligent than you and able to grasp scientific stuff with ease. Something you clearly lack especially since you have made no single scientific rebuttal to any of the 3 proofs I dropped.

I am sure if this thread was about Yahweh you would be writing your usual long epistles.

Thanks for taking several seats as I adviced to the scientifically ignorant

Butterflyleo:


I can but choose not to because that is not the purpose of the OP so you can stop trying to derail

alright in the same way,I can disprove your post but choose not to since you wouldn't answer my question

Martinez19:
I am not intellectually dishonest, you are. I admit, even before vaxx, that I believe the big bang. You distort arguments so much.

Show me where I distorted them? Did you not speak from both sides of your mouth?

darkchild64:

alright in the same way,I can disprove your post but choose not to since you wouldn't answer my question

Then take several seats and shut up

frank317:


U confidently make this statement but funny enough when comes to the creator which u have never seen before u make an exception.

It is obvious that every single one of you atheists drink from the same cup of idiocy. So I will post the same response I gave to darkchild when he made the very same silly comment as yours.

Dummy. Science is based on empirical proofs limited to this universe. God exists OUTSIDE our universe which is why he is called THE UNCAUSED CAUSE AND THE IMMUTABLE MOVER.

That should sort out your problem

Butterflyleo:


Dummy. Science is based on empirical proofs limited to this universe. God exists OUTSIDE our universe which is why he is called THE UNCAUSED CAUSE AND THE IMMUTABLE MOVER.

that is your business as long as you claim that "God" is the UNCAUSED CAUSE ,I choose to claim that the universe is the UNCAUSED CAUSED,disprove my statement or prove yours,if not yours is not more authentic than mine

darkchild64:

that is your business as long as you claim that "God" is the UNCAUSED CAUSE ,I choose to claim that the universe is the UNCAUSED CAUSED,disprove my statement or prove yours,if not yours is not more authentic than mine

Go ahead then. I am not stopping you am I? Especially since science already stopped you 50+ years ago when it debunked the eternal universe hypothesis.

I guess you are still old school

Butterflyleo:

Then take several seats and shut up

because you are the owner of nairaland or because you are a mod ?

Is there no atheist who can refute the OP?

Butterflyleo:


Go ahead then. I am not stopping you am I? Especially since science already stopped you 50+ years ago when it debunked the eternal universe hypothesis.

I guess you are still old school

what is this one saying,both of us made claims,you are pointing out that the one I made was disclaimed by science while yours was not even a topic because it was too ridiculous to be brought out,give me a proof that your assertion is right and mine wrong and you are busy saying science this science that,after you would be the one calling another person names

vaxx:
i think we already settle this matter, infinite regression is philosophically and scientifically impossible. for example, imagine yourself to be a car driver ready to start a car, but before you start you have to ask permission from another driver behind you, but he has to do the same, and it goes on for infinity. Will you ever drive? If you do drive please explain how?

If infinite regression is impossible, why then do Christians insist that every creation MUST have a creator? Why do they insist that every driver must have a superior who he must take permission from