Butterflyleo:
Is there no atheist who can refute the OP?

can't the Op tell us how his "God" (which apparently has no name) created the universe ?

Butterflyleo:


Show me where I distorted them? Did you not speak from both sides of your mouth?

good bye.

darkchild64:
well I guess that is what your guilty conscience is telling you but I will let you off the hook,
I will play by your rules, I will only mention "God" and not Yahweh or Allah

darkchild64:
now first off,
since you claim "God" created the universe,
you mind telling us how and how long he did it?,
backing that up with a few evidences would help

Butterflyleo:
Sorry but this thread is not about HOW
but a simple analytical presentation using science on how the argument from causality and motion and gravity support intelligent, deliberate, purposeful origins unlike the chaotic origins being touted by science.

darkchild64:
can you describe how "God" created the universe?
if you can, go ahead,
if not, admit so,
I am not going with this rubbish excuses

No one can describe beyond conventional wisdom how "God" created the universe

Nevertheless, God created the universe
just like how, Bill Gates, created the world's largest software business, Microsoft, using a combination of knowledge and method

Butterflyleo:
I can
but choose not to because that is not the purpose of the OP
so you can stop trying to derail

darkchild64:


what is this one saying,both of us made claims,you are pointing out that the one I made was disclaimed by science while yours was not even a topic because it was too ridiculous to be brought out,give me a proof that your assertion is right and mine wrong and you are busy saying science this science that,after you would be the one calling another person names

Let me make this brief for you.

I presented scientific facts about laws of motion, argument from casuality, and the law of gravity which I used to explain how they support cause and effect and prove that nothing cannot cause anything to happen. Something has to cause an effect and the effect proves that something tangible caused it especially when we see the order or purpose which that cause created through the effect. From the end purpose we see intelligence and a deliberate action and this proves that there was an original creator to this effect. I have not spoken or presented anything outside science.

You on the other hand are presenting an eternal universe nonsense which is regarded as SCIENCE FICTION and bringing it here to show me that it is a viable argument when its simply silly since the eternal universe CAN NEVER BE scientifically proven and this is why science dumped it because they believe in empirical data and not fiction.

Martinez19:
good bye.

I.am glad you have seen your dishonesty

Butterflyleo:


Actually religion has made me more intelligent than you and able to grasp scientific stuff with ease. Something you clearly lack especially since you have made no single scientific rebuttal to any of the 3 proofs I dropped.

I am sure if this thread was about Yahweh you would be writing your usual long epistles.

Thanks for taking several seats as I adviced to the scientifically ignorant

You are wise enough not to make it about the God you believe in because you know Yahweh can not stand up to scrutiny so you hide behind this elusive and undefined God to help you propagate your delusions.

If you have any scientific proof of God, you'll not be wasting your time here on nairaland, you'll present it to the scientific community and win a Nobel prize. The fact that you are here says you have nothing but empty noise and lies as usual.

My own issue is... if your God has a will, loves ro be worshipped, loves humans, and can get what he wants, isnt it funny that u (an ordinary human) are proving him to us (your fellow humans)?

MuttleyLaff:






No one can describe beyond conventional wisdom how "God" created the universe

Nevertheless, God created the universe
just like how, Bill Gates, created the world's largest software business, Microsoft, using a combination of knowledge and method

Dalam0n:


You are wise enough not to make it about the God you believe in because you know Yahweh can not stand up to scrutiny so you hide behind this elusive and undefined God to help you propagate your delusions.

If you have any scientific proof of God, you'll not be wasting your time here on nairaland, you'll present it to the scientific community and win a Nobel prize. The fact that you are here says you have nothing but empty noise and lies as usual.

You are just too dumb for this thread so please go and sit down. I need to begin more threads like this that expose your unintelligence outside shouting Yahweh does not exist up and down.

I already presented my evidence. If you call them lies since all I did was use science to explain science, then it shows how ignorant you truly are.

Butterflyleo:


I.am glad you have seen your dishonesty

Anybody who tries to derail this thread will be immediately reported so blame yourself if you get a ban.

Frank317 you have been warned

MuttleyLaff:






No one can describe beyond conventional wisdom how "God" created the universe

Nevertheless, God created the universe
just like how, Bill Gates, created the world's largest software business, Microsoft, using a combination of knowledge and method

just to be sure of what you mean,you are saying that
noone can know the exact way "God" to created the universe,however it is a combination of knowledge and method just like how Bill Gates created the Microsoft software ?

Butterflyleo:


Let me make this brief for you.

I presented scientific facts about laws of motion, argument from casuality, and the law of gravity which I used to explain how they support cause and effect and prove that nothing cannot cause anything to happen. Something has to cause an effect and the effect proves that something tangible caused it especially when we see the order or purpose which that cause created through the effect. From the end purpose we see intelligence and a deliberate action and this proves that there was an original creator to this effect. I have not spoken or presented anything outside science.

You on the other hand are presenting an eternal universe nonsense which is regarded as SCIENCE FICTION and bringing it here to show me that it is a viable argument when its simply silly since the eternal universe CAN NEVER BE scientifically proven and this is why science dumped it because they believe in empirical data and not fiction.

I don't know how else to deal with you
you keep saying that my claim is scientifically disproved,now answer this simple question
DOES SCIENCE AGREE THAT THE UNIVERSE WAS CREATED BY "GOD" ?

darkchild64:


I don't know how else to deal with you
you keep saying that my claim is scientifically disproved,now answer this simple question
DOES SCIENCE AGREE THAT THE UNIVERSE WAS CREATED BY "GOD" ?

Smh I.am forced to repeat my comment to you earlier

Dummy. Science is based on empirical proofs limited to this universe. God exists OUTSIDE our universe which is why he is called THE UNCAUSED CAUSE AND THE IMMUTABLE MOVER.

These are very simple words whose meaning is easy to grasp. How you find it hard to grasp is amazing.

darkchild64:
just to be sure of what you mean,
you are saying that noone can know the exact way "God" to created the universe,
however it is a combination of knowledge and method just like how Bill Gates created the Microsoft software?

Exactamundo.
No one can describe beyond conventional wisdom how "God" created the universe

vaxx:
Mathematics is not a tangible thing, but actually an abstract concept and abstraction are always problematic. infinity mathematically is indeed a flawed concept that leaves paradoxical gaps, or holes in the number line, both in the middle, where zero is not allowed to have a reciprocal, and at the two ends where “infinity” is not a valid number''. likewise.Mathematics itself is built on the foundations of axioms implemented a long time ago.( we deal with this phenomenon before) Those axioms were made from humans and the concept of infinity can be played around with by human even if it is true or false.The question i throw up is a tangible one and i will like you to treat it as such. i currently have this book on my table, i will recommend it to you too.‘Infinitesimals: ''The History of a Dangerous Idea’' by Amir Alexander. it elucidate more on the concept of infinity in mathematics. but before then can you go ahead and settle my tangible question?

Your question was rather meaningless since no one has decided a I needs the permission of another driver to drive a car. In fact, all one needs is a car key, and the know how, provided the car is legally ones.

The uncaused causer is not an axiom. It is an hypothesis at best and has not been proven to be true or valid in anyway whatsoever!

And please, the topic being discussed is difficult in its own right. Don't further complicate things by not being clear in your writing or you will open yourself to be misunderstood.

Butterflyleo:


Smh I.am forced to repeat my comment to you earlier



These are very simple words whose meaning is easy to grasp. How you find it hard to grasp is amazing.

okay fine,butterflyleo says that science supports his claim that "God" (name witheld for unknown reasons) created the universe

happy now ??

darkchild64:

okay fine,butterflyleo says that science supports his claim that "God" (name witheld for unknown reasons) created the universe

happy now ??

What the ..... *facepalm*

MuttleyLaff:
Exactamundo.
No one can describe beyond conventional wisdom how "God" created the universe

just to know if we are on the same page who is this "God" you are referring to,because if by chance it is Yahweh then you are wrong,the Bible stated how he created the world

darkchild64:


just to know if we are on the same page who is this "God" you are referring to,because if by chance it is Yahweh then you are wrong,the Bible stated how he created the world

You are toying with a ban for attempting to derail

Is there no atheist who can tackle the OP aggressively and defeat it?

Butterflyleo:




What the ..... *facepalm*

you don't like being direct or honest,you kep saying that science disproves my claim while yours is rejected to so I don't really understand how you reason

Butterflyleo:


There is no such thing as an infinite regression because there are no infinite gods as it were and we all know that not all gods lay claim to creation. So where does infinite regression come into play?

It comes from the following

Butterflyleo:

Every effect has a cause and every cause has an effect

If the statement above is true, then so far as there is an effect, there is a god that caused it!

Butterflyleo:
Is there no atheist who can tackle the OP aggressively and defeat it?

can the Op not tell us how "God" (apparently has no name) created the universe

darkchild64:
okay fine,
butterflyleo says that science supports his claim that "God" (name witheld for unknown reasons) created the universe

happy now ??

Work with the filler, "God", for now

Even God's favourite response(s), when asked is:
"Why is it that you ask my name?"

The name by the way, is withheld for known reasons

darkchild64:


you don't like being direct or honest,you kep saying that science disproves my claim while yours is rejected to so I don't really understand how you reason

How can mine be rejected when it does not subscribe to known scientific parameters? Yours talks about an eternal universe or a multiverse which includes OUR OBSERVABLE UNIVERSE. Science can observe our universe but cannot observe others and for them to agree on your hypothesis they must see our own universe morph or interact with other universes. Something they cannot achieve or even observe because they would be unable to know when any theoretical universe would overlap ours.

Suffice to say that your claim is 50+ years old and 50+ years dead.

Butterflyleo:


Why are you always a blockhead. Read my OP again. I am sure if you or budaatum had read my OP you would have seen me describe God as an UNCAUSED CAUSE and IMMUTABLE MOVER.

Which renders your infinite regression talk as nonsensical.

So, every effect does not have a cause then, as opposed to what you said in you op?

MuttleyLaff:
Work with the filler, "God", for now

Even God's favourite response(s), when asked is:
"Why is it that you ask my name?"

The name by the way, is withheld for known reasons

could it be that Christians now entertain the idea that Yahweh may not be the one true "God" ,congrats you guys are now upgrading small small,for a Christian to say that "no one knows ho " God" created the universe" it means there is a lot going on

budaatum:

It comes from the following


If the statement above is true, then so far as there is an effect, there is a god that caused it!

From the OP

From the above definition it becomes rather obvious that the object must either itself possess power of movement or be moved by another or something else. The series of movers cannot be produced into an infinite number and motion cannot create itself. The cause which does move and has created for example the motion of the earth must itself be perfect and changeless or the problem is set up again. This immutable mover is an eternal Being called God,

And

It is obvious in everything without intelligence that there is what architects and industrial designers called the ordering of structure to function. All the planning is the adaptation of a means to an end, the end in unintelligent things being hearing or seeing or being green coloured.
Only an intelligence can use means to gain an end, for the end must be known in the first place and the relationship of the means to the end clearly seen. This order we find in things requires a final ultimate cause or the problem is recreated. This final uncreated, uncaused and unplanned Cause is God

.

Butterflyleo:


My statement is correct because I have eliminated God from what the statement covers when I said God is the uncaused cause and the immutable mover. Its simple english

So, every effect has a cause except your god, right?

darkchild64:

could it be that Christians now entertain the idea that Yahweh may not be the one true "God" ,congrats you guys are now upgrading small small,for a Christian to say that "no one knows ho " God" created the universe" it means there is a lot going on

Another facepalm.

Last warning

Butterflyleo:


How can mine be rejected when it does not subscribe to known scientific parameters? Yours talks about an eternal universe or a multiverse which includes OUR OBSERVABLE UNIVERSE. Science can observe our universe but cannot observe others and for them to agree on your hypothesis they must see our own universe morph or interact with other universes. Something they cannot achieve or even observe because they would be unable to know when any theoretical universe would overlap ours.

Suffice to say that your claim is 50+ years old and 50+ years dead.

one question for you please give me a yes or no answer

DOES SCIENCE AGREE THAT THE UNIVERSE WAS CREATED BY A "GOD ??