jas man:

i'm sorry

for what?

i once made it very clear in my earlier post that no matter what a religion professes to be, it will be judged by the behaviour of its members. no excuses.

it is very clear to the whole world that there is nothing peaceful about moslems even though they claim that islam is a religion of peace.

people know that their lives are not safe if they are living amongst moslems and they are not moslems themselves. they can be killed anytime. nigeria and pakistan are very good examples.

i once remembered watching 3 moslems discussing with so much glee how christians were screaming as they were being butchered by moslems in one of the towns in Nigeria. a true religion indeed.

Actually Amina,your fundamentalism is blinding you.Arab muslims started slavery, they taught Europeans to see black people as animals.Their slaves had no choice but to follow their masters religion.If u think black people mean anything to Arabs dare yourself by asking your husband to suggest that he call the prayer in an Arab mosque nd see what they will tell you.As for catholics abusing children, muslims marry 9yr olds.So what are you really saying?The religion also forces its will on its people nd denies them fundamental human rights and their God given free will.I don't know where you got ur conclusion about ur religion, but u need a rethink.

@benodic whom are u grieved at the moslems or the northerners

@jas man wait bro u know dey tire drop this arguement or are u christians taught to be extremely sturborn?

@igbogolo it's not fair u calling a god creaturethat worship god in truth and in spirit stupid .is that what u are taught in the church?

Muslims are the funniest people to talk to. Amina you say those who fight in the name of Islam are not Muslims. well, even your prophet fought wars in the name of Islam. so would you say that Mohammad too is not a a true Muslim? or will you deny in this forum that Mohammad ordered the execution of people who criticized him in his lifetime. Let me tell everyone a story in this forum. I am a student of Arabian history. Mohammad's life was the subject of my thesis:

March 625 A.D.
Banu-N-Nadir(A place in the oustkirts of Medinah)

Among the Jewish tribe of Banu-N-Nadir, was an eminent poet by the name of Kaab Ibn Al' Ashraf. He was an extremely famous and cultured poet who was considered a genius of verse.He had composed a lament about the Qurayshites who had been so unjustly massacred in the battle of Badr. One day the Prophet proclaimed in his usual sweet manner " Who will rid me of the dog Kaab Ibn Al Ashraf?". A certain Muhammad Bin Maslama replied that he would do it, adding "We shall have to tell lies to do it". Inevitably the Prophet immediately gave the divine authority to lie as necessary. Muhammad Maslama bribed the foster brother of Kaab, a man called Silkan, who was a Muslim. The following night Kaab was visited by his loving foster brother and spent a pleasant evening reciting poetry. Needless to say, after dark, Kaab was dragged out of his bed screaming, and stabbed repeatedly by Muhammad Maslama, Silkan and two other devout Muslims, in full view of his young wife to be. Indeed what a great example of kindness and tolerance, was the Prophet of Islam!

DO you want to hear more scandalous stories about the prophet of allah? i will tell you another one. I am a historian Islamic history is my field:

APRIL 623 A.D.
MEDINA

After the battle of Badr, the people of Medinah were horrified that they had given refuge to the muslims and his followers in their city. Many began protesting the presence of the muslims. In a free society like Pre-Islamic Arabia, the poets acted as society's conscience and were free to criticise, satirize and examine the actions of people. The two most famous poets of this kind were Abu 'Afak; an extremely old and respected poet and Asma bint Marwan; a young mother with the gift of superb verse.

Muhammad was enraged at their criticism. When he heard the verses composed by Asma Bint Marwan he was infuriated and screamed aloud, "Will no one rid me of this daughter of Marwan!" That very night a gang of Muslims set out to do the dirty deed. They broke into the poets' house. She was lying in in her bedroom suckling her newborn child, while her other small children slept nearby. The Muslims tore the newborn infant off her breast and hacked it to pieces before her very eyes. They then made her watch the murder of all four of her children, before raping and then stabbing her repeatedly to death. After the murder when the Muslims went to inform the Prophet, he said "You have done a service to Allah and his Messenger, her life was not worth even two goats!"

A month later the distinguished and highly respected Abu Afak, who was over a hundred years old and reknowned for his sense of fairness, was killed brutally in the same manner as he slept. Once again the Prophet had commented that morning "Who will avenge me on this scoundrel!"

This shows us exactly how much the tolerant and peace loving Prophet respected life. Muslims claim that Mohammed was extremely gentle and loved children. Indeed the horrifying way he had Asma Bint Marwan's five infants slaughtered certainly attests to this "loving" side of the Prophet.


IF I HAVE TOLD A LIE IN THIS FORUM PLEASE GO AND RESEARCH AND LET US HAVE YOUR VERSION OF THIS STORIES

solababy:

.


IF I HAVE TOLD A LIE IN THIS FORUM PLEASE GO AND RESEARCH AND LET US HAVE YOUR VERSION OF THIS STORIES

let me have your source first.

dear chakula,

The reason why you want my sources is so that you can begin inventing arguments to discredit them. I have a degree in history with several years of research in Arabian history, so i am an authority on the subject in my own right. Before i refer you to any published authorities(i have at least ten, both Arabic and Western authorities), i challenge you to go to your imams so that we can have the orthodox Islamic versions of these stories. Or will you tell me that you as a Muslim don't know any Islamic political and military history? The People Mohammad assassinated(abacha-style) and whom i have mentioned in this post are famous names in Arabic history. The name of Asman Bint Marwan is a famous name in Arabian history. She was the Wole Soyinka of her time, one of the greatest women poets in Arabic history. All students of Arabian history know that name(so you can't say that i am lying). The name of the poet Kaab Ibn Al' Ashraf whom Mohammad assassinated in cold blood is a famous name. His poetry survives in Arabic literature to this day. So first give me your own version of these stories. Then I will correct your errors by pointing you not to Western sources but to ancient Arabic sources.

solababy:

dear chakula,

I have a degree in history with several years of research in Arabian history, so i am an authority on the subject in my own right.

mr chakula

so far you have not raised any issue with the facts i have presented here. you tell me that i have my facts wrong then we can begin talking about the sources. i challenge you once more!

shakula take look at this


Bukhari:V4B52N220 "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been made victorious with terror.'"
Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."
Ishaq:326 "If you come upon them, deal so forcibly as to terrify those who would follow, that they may be warned. Make a severe example of them by terrorizing Allah's enemies."
Qur'an:8:67 "It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land."
Ishaq:588 "When the Apostle descends on your land none of your people will be left when he leaves."
Tabari IX:42 "We have been dealt a situation from which there is no escape. You have seen what Muhammad has done. Arabs have submitted to him and we do not have the strength to fight. You know that no herd is safe from him. And no one even dares go outside for fear of being terrorized."
Ishaq:326 "Allah said, 'No Prophet before Muhammad took booty from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.' Muhammad said, 'I was made victorious with terror. The earth was made a place for me to clean. I was given the most powerful words. Booty was made lawful for me. I was given the power to intercede. These five privileges were awarded to no prophet before me.'"
Ishaq:327 "Allah said, 'A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.'"
Ishaq:510 "When the Apostle looked down on Khaybar he told his Companions, 'O Allah, Lord of the Devils and what into terror they throw, and Lord of the winds and what they winnow, we ask Thee for the booty of this town and its people. Forward in the name of Allah.' He used to say this of every town he raided."

Qur'an:8:7 "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"
Qur'an:8:12 "Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: 'I am with you. Give firmness to the Believers. I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.'"
Qur'an:8:15 "Believers, when you meet unbelieving infidels in battle while you are marching for war, never turn your backs to them. If any turns his back on such a day, unless it be in a stratagem of war, a maneuver to rally his side, he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell, an evil refuge!"
Qur'an:8:39 "So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam."
Qur'an:8:45 "O believers! When you meet an army, be firm, and think of Allah's Name much; that you may prosper."
Qur'an:8:57 "If you meet them in battle, inflict on them such a defeat as would be a lesson for those who come after them, that they may be warned."
Qur'an:8:58 "If you apprehend treachery from any group on the part of a people (with whom you have a treaty), retaliate by breaking off (relations) with them. The infidels should not think that they can bypass (the law or punishment of Allah). Surely they cannot get away." [Another translation reads:] "The unbelieving infidels should not think that they can bypass Islam; surely they cannot escape."
Qur'an:8:59 "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."
Qur'an:8:60 "And make ready against the infidels all of the power you can, including steeds of war [the Noble Qur'an says these are: tanks, planes, missiles, and artillery] to threaten the enemy of Allah and your enemy. And whatever you spend in Allah's Cause shall be repaid unto you." [Another translation reads:] "Prepare against them whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah, and others besides them not known to you. Whatever you spend in Allah's Cause will be repaid in full, and no wrong will be done to you."
Qur'an:8:71 "He will give you mastery over them."
Ishaq:204 "'Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man?' 'Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.'"
Ishaq:471 "We are steadfast trusting Him. We have a Prophet by whom we will conquer all men."
Qur'an:4:77 "Lord, why have You ordained fighting for us, why have You made war compulsory?"
Qur'an:4:71 "Believers, take precautions and advance in detachments or go (on expeditions) together in one troop.'"
Ishaq:322 "Allah said, 'Do not turn away from Muhammad when he is speaking to you. Do not contradict his orders. And do not be a hypocrite, one who pretends to be obedient to him and then disobeys him. Those who do so will receive My vengeance. You must respond to the Apostle when he summons you to war."
Ishaq:544 "Hassan incited the men, reciting: 'This is the time for war. Don't feel safe from us. Our swords will open the door to death.'"
Bukhari:V5B57N1 "Allah's Apostle said, 'A time will come when a group of Muslims will wage a Holy War and it will be said,"Is there anyone who has accompanied Allah's Apostle?" They will say, "Yes." And so victory will be bestowed on them.'"
Ishaq:574 "In faith I do not fear the army of fate. He gave us the blood of their best men to drink when we led our army against them. We are a great army with a pungent smell. And we attack continuously, wherever our enemy is found."
Qur'an:9:5 "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, beleaguer them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
Qur'an:67:20 "Who is he that will send an army to assist you besides Ar-Rahman?"
Tabari IX:115 "The military expeditions (Ghazawat) in which the Messenger personally participated were twenty-six. Some say there were twenty-seven."
Tabari IX:118 "The armies and raiding parties sent by the Messenger of Allah between the time he came to Medina and his death (ten years) was forty-eight."
Qur'an:48:15 "Those who lagged behind (will say), when you marched forth to capture booty in war: 'Permit us to follow you.'"
Qur'an:47:20 "Those who believe say, 'How is it that no surah was sent down (for us)?' But when a categorical [definite or uncompromising] surah is revealed, and fighting and war (Jihad, holy fighting in Allah's Cause) are ordained, you will see those with diseased hearts looking at you (Muhammad) fainting unto death. Therefore woe to them!"
Tabari VIII:159 "The people began to throw dust at the army, saying, 'You retreating runaways. You fled in the Cause of Allah!' But the Messenger said, 'They are not fleers. Allah willing, they are ones who will return to fight another day."
Qur'an:9:25 "Assuredly, Allah did give you victory on many battlefields, Allah did send down His forces (angels) which you saw not. He punished the Infidels. Such is their reward."
Qur'an:9:41 "March forth (equipped) with light or heavy arms. Strive with your goods and your lives in the Cause of Allah. That is best for you."

dear mr clown:

i found this bushmeat first. you should have let me kill the bush meat myself . i wanted to hear the false stories about islam that their imams tell them before i deliver the killing blow.next time when you go hunting, find your own bushmeat yourself!

@ solababy give us the real source where u get this islamic historic as u so call it .imean where we can be as well refer to maybe in the holy book or any of the prophets loyalist books.otherwise every other things u've siad is fallacy.

i shall go straight to the point. i will mention only authentic sahaba [/i]sources(i.e. first hand sources by the companions of the prophet with unconstested [i]isnad

CONCERNING THE DEATH OF ASMAN BINT MARWAN THE PRIMARY SOURCE IN ISLAMIC HISTORY IS:

Sīrat Rasūl Allāh by Muhammed Ibn Ishaq (Medina, 85 A.H. – Bagdad, 151 A.H).

for those who don't read arabic there are many english translations of this work: the best known world wide is Guilaume's translation: check page 675-676

CONCERNING THE DEATH OF Kaab Ibn Al Ashraf, THE PRIMARY SOURCE IS:Bukhari vol 5 #369. And to save you the trouble of looking up the hadith i will quote directly from the Hadith:

"Narrated Jabir Abdullah: "Allah's messenger said "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His apostle?" Thereupon Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's messenger! Would you like that I kill him?" The prophet said, "Yes". Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Ka'b). The prophet said, "You may say it."

A SECOND CORROBORATING SOURCE IS Tabaqat, vol 2, page 37:

"Then they cut his head(i.e. the head of Al-Ashraf and took it with them. , they cast his head before him [Muhammad]. He (the prophet) praised Allah on his being slain."

A THIRD CORROBORATING SOURCE IS AGAIN Sirat Rasul Allah. This book is probably the oldest biography of Mohammed in existence written by a sahaba(i.e. a companion of the prophet). Check GUILAUME'S TRANSLATION PAGE 365.

(IN THIS SCENE IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE BATTLE OF BADR AL-ASHRAF IS EXPRESSING HIS SHOCK AT THE WAY MOHAMMED KILLED ALL THE HIGHLY RESPECTED QURAYSH ELDERS HE CAPTURED IN BATTLE. NOTE THAT MOHAMMED HIMSELF WAS A MEMBER OF THE QURAYSH TRIBE AND THAT THESE PEOPLE HE KILLED WERE THE RESPECTED ELDERS OF HIS OWN PEOPLE).

"Is this true? Did Muhammad actually kill these whom these two men mention? These are the nobles of the Arabs and kingly men; by God, if Muhammad has slain these people it were better to be dead than alive." When the enemy of god became certain that the news was true he left the town and went to Mecca to stay with al-Muttalib who was married to Atika. She took him in and entertained him hospitably. He began to inveigh against the apostle and to recite verses in which he bewailed the Quraysh who were thrown into the pit after having been slain at Badr."

Thereupon he and Silkan b. Salama b. Waqsh who was Abu Na'ila, and Abbad one of the B. 'Abdu'l-Asshal, foster-brother of Ka'b, and 'Abbad b. Bishr b. Waqsh, and al-Harith b. Aus b. Mu'adh of the B. 'Abdu'l-Asshal and Abu 'Abs b. Jabr of the B. Haritha conspired together and sent Silkan to the enemy of God, Ka'b b. Ashraf, before they came to him. He talked to him some time and they recited poetry one to the other, for Silkan was fond of poetry. Then he said, 'O Ibn Ashraf, I have come to you about a matter which I want to tell you of and wish you to keep secret.' 'Very well,' he replied. He went on, 'The coming of this man is a great trial to us. It has provoked the hostility of the Arabs, and they are all in league against us. The roads have become impassable so that our families are in want and privation, and we and our families are in great distress.' Ka'b answered, 'By God, I kept telling you O Ibn Salama, that the things I warned you of would happen.' Silkan said to him, 'I want you to sell us food and we will give you a pledge of security and you deal generously in the matter.' He replied, 'Will you give me your sons as a pledge?' He said, 'You want to insult us. I have friends who share my opinion and I want to bring them to you so that you many sell to them and act generously, and we will give you enough weapons for a good pledge.' Silkan's object was that he should not take alarm at the sight of weapons when they brought them. Ka'b answered, 'Weapons are a good pledge.'

Thereupon Silkan returned to his companions, told them what had happened, and ordered them to take their arms. Then they went away and assembled with him and met the apostle.

Thaur b. Zayd from 'Ikrima from Ibn 'Abbas told me the apostle walked with them as far as Baqi'ul-Gharqad. Then he sent them off, saying, 'Go in God's name; O God help them.' So saying, he returned to his house. Now it was a moonlight night and they journeyed on until they came to his castle, and Abu Na'ila called out to him. He had only recently married and he jumped up in the bedsheet, and his wife took hold of the end of it and said, 'You are at war, and those who are at war do not go out at this hour.' He replied, 'It is Abu Na'ila. Had he found me sleeping he would not have woken me.' She answered, 'by God, I can feel evil in his voice.' Ka'b answered, 'Even if the call were for a stab a brave man must answer it.'

So he went down and talked to them for some time, while they conversed with him. Then Abu Na'ila said, 'Would you like to walk with us to Shib al-'Ajuz, so that we can talk for the rest of the night?' 'If you like,' he answered, so they went off walking together; and after a time Abu Na'ila ran his hand through his hair. Then he smelt his hand, and said, 'I have never smelt a scent finer than this.' They walked on farther and he did the same so that Ka'b suspected no evil. Then after a space did it for the third time and cried, 'Smite the enemy of God!' So they smote him, and their swords clashed over him with no effect. Muhammad b. Maslama said, 'I remembered my dagger when I saw that our swords were useless, and I seized it. Meanwhile the enemy of God had made such a noise that every fort around us was showing a light. I thrust it into the lower part of his body, then I bore down upon it until I reached his genitals, and the enemy of God fell to the ground.

Al-Harith had been hurt, being wounded either in his head or in his foot, one of our swords having stuck him. We went away, passing by the B. Umayya b. Zayd and then the B. Qurayza and then Bu'ath until we went up the Harra of al-'Urayd. Our friend al-Harith had lagged behind, weakened by loss of blood, so we waited for him for some time until he came up, following our tracks. We carried him and brought him to the apostle at the end of the night. We saluted him as he stood praying, and he came out to us and we told him that we had killed God's enemy. He spat upon our comrade's wounds, and both he and we returned to our families. Our attack upon God's enemy cast terror among the Jews, and there was no Jew in Medina who did not fear for his life.'


THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE SOURCES OF ISLAMIC HISTORY ARE SO WELL KNOWN THAT I DO NOT EXPECT ANY WELL INFORMED MUSLIM TO FORCE ME TO START WASHING ISLAM'S DIRTY LINENS IN PUBLIC. BUT IF YOU WANT US TO START THAT ON THIS FORUM WE CAN. THIS TWO MURDERS I HAVE MENTIONED ARE ONLY TWO IN SEVERAL OTHERS CORROBORATED BY THE SAHABAS. THE LIST OF POEPLE MOHAMMED ASSASINATED IN COLD BLOOD ONLY FOR CRITICIZING HIM IS A VERY LONG LIST. IF YOU WANT ME TO QUOTE MORE KILLINGS AND ASSASSINATIONS AND TORTURES BY MOHAMMED I WILL DO IT.

THE REASON WHY ISLAM IS A BLOODTHIRSTY RELIGION IS THAT THE FOUNDER MOHAMMAD HIMSELF HAD A BLOOD-DRENCHED CARRIER. MUSLIMS ONLY FOLLOW MOHAMMED'S EXAMPLE WHEN THEY KILL AND MAIM IN THE NAME OF ALLAH. ALL THE RIOTS AND KILLINGS IN THE NORTH FOLLOW MOHAMMED'S EXAMPLE. THE BEST WAY TO BE A MUSLIM IS TO KILL IN THE NAME OF ALLAH LIKE MOHAMMED DID. SO PLEASE DON'T TELL US THAT NORTHERNERS WHO KILL FOR ALLAH ARE NOT GOOD MUSLIMS. THEY ARE THE BEST MUSLIMS FOLLOWING THE EXAMPLE OF THE PROPHET HIMSELF

@solababy,

you did a very wonderful job.

i keep on saying it that a religion is judged by the action and behaviour of its members and there are no excuses.

if any one kills in the name of my religion he or she will be excommunicated immediately and there are no excuses.

moslems can deny as much as they want they can not deceive any of us living in the northern part of nigeria. it takes very little to trigger off a riot and a killing spree.

a religion that claims to be peaceful should be seen to be peaceful

@benodic even at the point of death u'll still be peaceful (mu :; mu) no self defence? don't lie u'll surely react and on doing that smone slump and died so u are also a murderer.

i have a question for christains if they can answer it i wll give a reward of 10k
where is christanity mentioned in the bible don't be suprised because you can find it, in case you dont know jesus was a muslim .
islam is only true religion

WONDERFUL! JESUS WAS A MUSLIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LIVED IN 00 BC!!!!!!!!!!!
FROM THE TRIBE OF JUDAH!!!!!!!!!!
RAISED A JEW!!!!!!!!!!!!
READ FROM THE TORAH!!!!!!!!!!
PRAYING IN THE JEWISH TEMPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OBSERVING JEWISH CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS!!!!!!!!!!!

OR

BORN IN ARABIA?!
PROFESSED THE SHAHABA (THERE IS NO GOD BUT GOD AND MUHAMMED IS HIS MESSENGER)?!
CALLED GOD ALLAH AND BY NO OTHER NAME?!
FOUGHT JIHAD AT LEAST ONCE IN HIS LIFE TIME?!
READ FROM THE QURAN?!
MEMORIZED IT?!
PRAYED FACING THE EAST?!
PRAYED KNEELING AND STANDING UP REPEATEDLY?!
KILLED UNBELIEVERS?!

OR HOW WAS HE A MUSLIM? PLEASE THROW MORE LIGHT, WHO IS MUSLIM? BECAUSE IF CHRIST IS, THEM I COULD BE ONE!

Islam is the one true religion? All this while i thought it was a way of life?

Scratching my salty chocolate balls offers the same relief

@bouymoyo

your reply to my post has clearly shown me that you are very ignorant about spiritual matters.

i have starred at death at various points in my life without any fear and without needing to fight back.

why?

because i have come to realize that God is with me at all times and that God is all powerful. i do not need to fight for God or to fight for my life because my life is in God's hands.

i have had a lot of experiences to show me time and time again how much God loves me. i do not need a book to explain that to me.

until other religions come to that realization that you do not need to fight for God and that also you do not need to fear for your life then i am afraid that the unnecessary killings in the name of God will continue.

but i will also remind you that he who kills in the name of God will also pay the price in the name of God. there are no excuses.