Some people tend to forget that  it is Nigeria we are talking about. Nepa would have to get out of life support, Ajaokuta Steel company would have to ressurect from the dead, etc before you even come close to canvassing   for equality and fairness in the justice system . Given our peculiar polity, i would go so far as to say it is naive of anyone to suggest that Ibori being arrested is wrong while other known rogues like IBB, OBJ are walking the streets free.  The problem we have is that virtually all our politicians are guilty of corruption  in  one form or the order so it either they all go free or from time to time one of them falls fouls of whoever is in power and goes to jail.
For those proposing that all guilty parties should be prosecuted,  i would honestly love for you to expalin how that can be done,

I would like to express my sincere appreciation for all the contributors of this thread, it contained a lot of good arguments on both side and was devoid of insults, tribalism and accusations of being a ribadu's apologist or Ibori's supporter.

My main purpose of the thread is to get people to condemn and fight against our present skewed justice system instead of calling for all criminals to go free. It has been proven that if we have a common agenda and are ready to fight for it, our situation would start improving, but most times people tolerate and even support selective justice, based on ethnic, religious, personal and other considerations. Meanwhile our country is gradually falling into a state of anarchy. At current level of corruption, which selective justice is encouraging ( because as i said earlier, those one the right side of powers that be are more brazen and arrogant in their corruption), we would be bankrupt in a few years time. The $60 billion OBJ left in the excess crude account had been withered to less than $4 billion. We would soon start another round of borrowing spree, and be trapped in a debt trap once again.

What i would like to see is consistency in our views. I want those that are castigating Ibori for running away based on alleged persecution to also condemn Ribadu for running away on the same allegation of persecution. He is a fugitive of the law just as Ribadu was and Akingbola is still presently is. If Ribadu does not have faith in the judicial process ( a law enforcement officer for that matter), why should Ibori?. Perhaps, if the government changes tomorrow, Ibori status might change again from that of a fugitive to a power broker.

Selective justice is a sure road to anarchy. It was not even this bad under the military, and that is why if a dictator minded individual like IBB should take over power today, with the present selective justice structure, he would be too powerful to control.

You must understand that there is a difference btwn Ribadu and Ibori do you have concrete evidence aginst Ribadu?I dont think so we just have a lot of newspaper reports. but in Ibori's case there is concrete evidence.

Any one who doesnt see what is going on today in the name fighting corruption as a selective Justice need to wake up. I believe we have a law in Nigeria that described clearly what an act of corruption is. Why is someone being cleared of corruption charges in one government and being charged again of the corruption in another government if not for selective Justice.

I thought by now it would be cleared to Nigerians that there is nothing like a fight against corruption in Nigeria, but a fight to get people under ur support and to be loyal to you.

Yaradua came fighting for corruption, but the likes of Ibori were cleared of their corruption charges from OBJ governement, and the likes of Ribadu, El rufai flee the nation. Now coming back home becoz a new government has emerged which they are loyal to. Suddenly Ibori and Ogbulafor's sins are being remembered, soon Obgulafor will soon flee the nation like his fellow criminal Ibori until a new govenement emerges that is gonna favour them also.
I thought Many Nigerians would have been wise enough to know that all things are jst BULLSHEET, and playing with the intelligent of average Nigerians.

princekevo:

Any one who doesnt see what is going on today in the name fighting corruption as a selective Justice need to wake up. I believe we have a law in Nigeria that described clearly what an act of corruption is. Why is someone being cleared of corruption charges in one government and being charged again of the corruption in another government if not for selective Justice.

Abi oo o !

Justice is justice. . .

The implementation may be intentionally or non-intentionally partial.

So many factors come into play. Law enforcement agents in Naija seem to function like the journalists. How can you get a conviction with mere allegations, so if you don't have concrete evidence that can bring about conviction especially for powerful politicians. You may get them arrested for a day, out on bail the next and acquitted in a couple more months.

People have said so much about political witch-hunting. But the truth is that there will always be a priority list for the implementation of justice. An example is the FBI most wanted list. At certain times, some criminals are more important than other criminals. So, there is really nothing wrong in putting all your resources out against an enemy(Ibori) who is perceived to be able to cause national instability in the near future.

Also, if you don't have concrete evidence against a powerful criminal, and he is currently docile, the best thing is to wait and watch until you can pin something concrete on them. And this is what we Nigerians have coined as "witch-hunting", but this is done all over the world and may be the only way of putting criminals out of the general society. Nobody really cares for what crime a criminal/politician is put in prison, as long as he can be put away for sufficient time, so that he won't be able to do more of his biz.

Bottom line is this. When you chase a group of bush-rats, they scatter in all directions, and you chase after the one you are most likely to catch or even sometimes, you ignore all the little rats and go for the fattest in the group.

You can never catch them all, but anyone you catch will still be good enuf meat.

ziga:

Justice is justice. . .

The implementation may be intentionally or non-intentionally partial.

So many factors come into play. Law enforcement agents in Naija seem to function like the journalists. How can you get a conviction with mere allegations, so if you don't have concrete evidence that can bring about conviction especially for powerful politicians. You may get them arrested for a day, out on bail the next and acquitted in a couple more months.

People have said so much about political witch-hunting. But the truth is that there will always be a priority list for the implementation of justice. An example is the FBI most wanted list. At certain times, some criminals are more important than other criminals. So, there is really nothing wrong in putting all your resources out against an enemy(Ibori) who is perceived to be able to cause national instability in the near future.

Also, if you don't have concrete evidence against a powerful criminal, and he is currently docile, the best thing is to wait and watch until you can pin something concrete on them. And this is what we Nigerians have coined as "witch-hunting", but this is done all over the world and may be the only way of putting criminals out of the general society. Nobody really cares for what crime a criminal/politician is put in prison, as long as he can be put away for sufficient time, so that he won't be able to do more of his biz.

Bottom line is this. When you chase a group of bush-rats, they scatter in all directions, and you chase after the one you are most likely to catch or even sometimes, you ignore all the little rats and go for the fattest in the group.

You can never catch them all, but anyone you catch will still be good enuf meat.

Sorry to say but your argument are very lame.

Up till a few months ago, the most wanted "criminal" in Nigeria was Ribadu, the IG was looking for him like Osama Bin Laden. Meanwhile Ibori was the bride of the government, in fact he was consulted in major political appointments by the yaradua administration. It was only in the last one month that Ibori and Ribadu exchanged roles. With Ibori being declared a wanted "criminal" Ibori had never been number 1 on the EFCC list.

wirinet:

Sorry to say but your argument are very lame.

Up till a few months ago, the most wanted "criminal" in Nigeria was Ribadu, the IG was looking for him like Osama Bin Laden. Meanwhile Ibori was the bride of the government, in fact he was consulted in major political appointments by the yaradua administration. It was only in the last one month that Ibori and Ribadu exchanged roles. With Ibori being declared a wanted "criminal" Ibori had never been number 1 on the EFCC list.

Sorry to say too, but your analysis of my post is also very lame. . .

Whether ibori was previously on the list does not matter, the FG with its power see Ibori as a threat worthy of the no. 1 position, and Ibori has cases to be answered, so they use his unanswered case against him to remove the threat.

Don't choose to be one sided, this happens all over the world, even in the states.

A lot of people don't really care why Ibori is to be put in jail. People are happy because we have 1 less thieving politician to worry about. The end achieves the means.

And politician who is smart will try to clean up his books, because it is likely to be used against him in future, for whatever purpose. And that to me is progress.

@Ziga, the comparisons you made of this to what happens at the FBI were definitely lame, and from nowhere.

What happens in Nigeria DOES NOT happen everywhere? So, let us please focus on discussing this within the Nigerian context in which we are sure it applies, more like institutionalized, rather than making this another "I PRETEND IT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE SO IT IS OK" issue.

ziga:

Sorry to say too, but your analysis of my post is also very lame. . .

Whether ibori was previously on the list does not matter, the FG with its power see Ibori as a threat worthy of the no. 1 position, and Ibori has cases to be answered, so they use his unanswered case against him to remove the threat.

Don't choose to be one sided, this happens all over the world, even in the states.

A lot of people don't really care why Ibori is to be put in jail. People are happy because we have 1 less thieving politician to worry about. The end achieves the means.

And politician who is smart will try to clean up his books, because it is likely to be used against him in future, for whatever purpose. And that to me is progress.

Honestly i do not know where else in the world that a saint and a criminal can exchange roles overnight.

How are you sure that Ibori was not smart enough to clean up his books both financially and judicially. Because the EFCC has not made public the so called new allegations against Ibori.

Also please do you have the exact cases Ibori has to answer. Because the EFCC says they have new evidence against Ibori, but they are yet to present it.

ziga:


A lot of people don't really care why Ibori is to be put in jail. People are happy because we have 1 less thieving politician to worry about. The end achieves the means.

And politician who is smart will try to clean up his books, because it is likely to be used against him in future, for whatever purpose. And that to me is progress.

The bolded parts of your submission explain why Nigeria may never ever achieve meaningful progress. It explains why the masses celebrate paltry tokens and are content and complacent with 'drops' of water when they are really entitled to gulps. It explains why, a few years ago, Nigerians were declared the "happiest people n the world" - a rather shameful award if one considers the extent of shortchanging and degradation they suffer in the hands of their government. It explains why the inimitable Fela Anikulapo Kuti sang "suffering and smiling" to bemoan the despicable docility and gullibility of the Nigerian masses. It explains why the masses readily accept a mess of porridge today, rather than fight for a barn of yams for tomorrow. It explains why they sell their votes for N100 rather than vote in a candidate that would deliver value worth N1,000,000. It explains why everything is the way it is, and would remain so throughout our lifetime at the very least. This is tragic.

@wirinet, Kobojunkie, princekevo et al.

Nobody is saying it is not selective justice and nobody is also saying the present system of selective justice is the best. All we are saying is, "half bread is better than none." The kind of justice system we so wish for is not possible in Nigeria. . .not with our present political class which is made up of 98% corrupt individuals who have been (s)elected. You all have to wake up from ur wild dreams and face reality. This is Naija!!!

We all should at least be happy if someone like Ibori can be brought down by this flawed system cos we would actually have 1 less criminal politician (out of thousands) to worry about. As slow and ineffective as this present system may appear to be, it is worthy of note that there is no other solution for this epidemic in Nigeria.

Saying the system is bad isnt enough cos every Nigerian (even a child) knows that. The question remains, what do we do? . . do we sit back and wait for a perfect system before we do something?. . I challenge any one of you who has a better and PRACTICAL solution (that will work in this our Naija) to spit it out.

Area! I dey hail.

These same people will see nothing wrong that one person has spent $16 billion in search of electricity but we still have darkness.

Ribadu has now been selectively reinstated, what happens to the other 139 officers who were demoted with him?

Anyway, how far with Halliburton?

obailala:

@wirinet, Kobojunkie, princekevo et al.

Nobody is saying it is not selective justice and nobody is also saying the present system of selective justice is the best. All we are saying is, "half bread is better than none." The kind of justice system we so wish for is not possible in Nigeria. . .not with our present political class which is made up of 98% corrupt individuals who have been (s)elected. You all have to wake up from your wild dreams and face reality. This is Naija!!!

If you had said to me 20 years ago that "Half bread is better than none" when it comes to justice in Nigeria, I would have agreed with you. But from witnessing how this "Half bread" system has not only handicapped the people but essentially helped root corruption establish deep roots in our country, I can tell you that the "Half bread" system is chaos and nothing more.

You say the present political class are made up of 98% corrupt individuals, you forget to also mention that the "Half bread" system enabled them get into positions of power and retain it for as long as they have ; this system essentially made way for them and continues to empower them.

obailala:

@wirinet, Kobojunkie, princekevo et al.

Nobody is saying it is not selective justice and nobody is also saying the present system of selective justice is the best. All we are saying is, "half bread is better than none." The kind of justice system we so wish for is not possible in Nigeria. . .not with our present political class which is made up of 98% corrupt individuals who have been (s)elected. You all have to wake up from your wild dreams and face reality. This is Naija!!!

We all should at least be happy if someone like Ibori can be brought down by this flawed system cos we would actually have 1 less criminal politician (out of thousands) to worry about. As slow and ineffective as this present system may appear to be, it is worthy of note that there is no other solution for this epidemic in Nigeria.

Saying the system is bad isnt enough cos every Nigerian (even a child) knows that. The question remains, what do we do? . . do we sit back and wait for a perfect system before we do something?. . I challenge any one of you who has a better and PRACTICAL solution (that will work in this our Naija) to spit it out.

Bros, I support your challenge. If you have something better that will work, tell it now.

Let us be realistic. the state we are in right now, we have more wolves than sheep. So, the natural way out will be for the wolves to fight themselves until we have less wolves in the system, before anything close to effective implementation of justice can work.

So, please, if anybody has a suggestion (not critic) of a system that is achievable, i'm all ears.

ziga:

Let us be realistic. the state we are in right now, we have more wolves than sheep. So, the natural way out will be for the wolves to fight themselves until we have less wolves in the system, before anything close to effective implementation of justice can work.

Exactly my point. If OBJ people get Ibori today, Ibori people get OBJ people tomorrow. Eventually people determined to perfect the system will take over.

For those arguing selective justice is no justice - that is the same argument for people who want the military to take over anytime the journey becomes difficult with our democracy just because fraudulent people are those that make it to power. A military government is not justified under any circumstance - if a democratic government becomes bad enough the people would overthrow in one massive protest, and the military can help hold the state together MOMENTARILY. So far Nigerians have not been allowed to reach the point of no return with bad governments. The military cuts the process short and then are the worst of the worst in everyway.

Whoever compares Ribadu's case to Ibori's must not be thinking for themselves clearly. Did you hear of any charges of corruption or non-declaration of assets even when it became clear that they were trying to get rid of him? No, when they realized that chasing him out was their worst mistake then they started grabbing at straws. IBB, the cunning snake, was the only one who whispered something about Ribadu benefiting from underserved promotion. Ibori's case is not only in Nigeria - he has a solid case against him in the UK. Rufai has returned to face the charges against him, he is charged already under the same Yar'adua EFCC henchwoman - so I don't know what you guys are talking about. Let Ibori return to Nigeria - it is the same henchwoman yesterday, today and tomorrow (may be). The fact remains that none, and I mean NONE, of those accused by Ribadu of corruption have been positively cleared, so lets get the facts straight for a minute.

A lot of what we call corruption in Nigeria is actually the fault of simple inability to COUNT, KEEP TRACK and KEEP VIABLE RECORDS. If any country in the world runs the Nigerian type of resource management they would be just as bad if not worse - this is what we really need to fix first!

naijamini:

Exactly my point. If OBJ people get Ibori today, Ibori people get OBJ people tomorrow. Eventually people determined to perfect the system will take over.

Alternatively, Tomorrow, OBJ quickly switches sides to get on the Ibori People team.  So Ibori’s people will have no reason to go after him since at that time he will be playing on their side and no more a threat to their side . . . come on.

naijamini:

For those arguing selective justice is no justice - that is the same argument for people who want the military to take over anytime the journey becomes difficult with our democracy just because fraudulent people are those that make it to power. A military government is not justified under any circumstance - if a democratic government becomes bad enough the people would overthrow in one massive protest, and the military can help hold the state together MOMENTARILY.

Huh? Telling you that selective justice is not same as unselective justice is similar to wanting military takeover. Abegi!!
No one has so far made mention of return of military – would not even know why anyone would need to when this issue has nothing to do with Millitary or Government type.


I do not think the argument is for return or the military or for change of government system. I definitely know that is not about. I think this is really to highlight the problem with what we have and have had for over 20 years, and why we need to work harder to get it where it ought to be instead. We need an UNSELECTIVE systemm – one not controlled or run by the “cabal” in charge.

in this whole noise about war against corruption, who has really been handled like a criminal among these so called criminal politicians?
take a trip to our public places and witness the jungle justice melted out on poor ppl who still maggi or pick pockets in our streets.
bode george is in jail today, but who said he is not even enjoying more than 95% nigerians who are not in jail?
alams was jailed and some of his loots recovered, who said he is still not rich or richer than ever?
the issue of running is not new here in nigeria so i wonder why ppl are surprised when one runs.
umaru dikko, ribadu, el rufai have all done same and now ibori so if tomorrow ground levels, he will come back a leader and not a criminal.
the evils of selectice justice are more dangerious that corruption itself.
if not for selective justice, why will men like chris uba and the late adedibu be celebrated as heros despite their crimes against govt and the masses?
now ribadu has writen an appology and we all kept quiet, assuming ibori decides to write appology tomorrow?
if anyone is in doubt of what selective justice is doing in nigeria, let that one compare nigeria to any country of the world.
i think nigeria is the only country in this world without electricity and we are sixth as the highest oil producing country in the world.

Kobojunkie:

@Ziga, the comparisons you made of this to what happens at the FBI were definitely lame, and from nowhere.

What happens in Nigeria DOES NOT happen everywhere? So, let us please focus on discussing this within the Nigerian context in which we are sure it applies, more like institutionalized, rather than making this another "I PRETEND IT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE SO IT IS OK" issue.

And can you please give me a "non-lame" reason why the comparison is from nowhere?

What happens in Nigeria is a modification of what happens everywhere. I do not want to get into conspiracy theories, but if you are really wanted for something in many developed countries - political or not, your bad books will be used to "witch hunt" you, and those officials will be made to either face charges or resign. Abeg, there will always be priorities in terms of justice.


In Nigeria it is may be more more partial for obvious reasons. I don't understand how that is so hard to understand.

ziga:

What happens in Nigeria is a modification of what happens everywhere.

A Modification of what happens everywhere? Why do you feel the need to throw EVERYWHERE under the bus so you can score one measly point for your “Nigeria”?
What happens in Nigeria happens NO WHERE ELSE. This is about Nigeria and not about everywhere else.

ziga:

I do not want to get into conspiracy theories, but if you are really wanted for something in many developed countries - political or not, your bad books will be used to "witch hunt" you, and those officials will be made to either face charges or resign. Abeg, there will always be priorities in terms of justice.

Therefore, you are saying that what happens in developed countries, for instance is that the law ignores crimes committed by officials, UNTIL, some more powerful politician/official decides to use that card to get a rival out of the way. Justice works that way in developed countries?
Did you read this post of yours after typing it?

ziga:

In Nigeria it is more partial for obvious reasons. i don't understand how that is so hard to understand.

Again, what happens in Nigeria DOES NOT happen everywhere? So, let us please focus on discussing this within the Nigerian context in which we are sure it applies, more like institutionalized, and loose this "I PRETEND IT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE SO IT IS OK" attitude to tackling OUR issues.

Kobojunkie:

A Modification of what happens everywhere? Why do you feel the need to throw EVERYWHERE under the bus so you can score one measly point for your “Nigeria”?

Score points for my Nigeria. . . Come on, don't be petty, do you think i'm into this to score points, or to see who wins the argument?

I believe the origin of all this talk is so that we can maturely rationalize a better technique for proper implementation of Justice in "My Nigeria"

But unfortunately, the only thing i've been hearing from you is this/that can't work.

Alright ma, what can work?

Kobojunkie:

Therefore, you are saying that what happens in developed countries, for instance is that the[b] law ignores crimes committed by officials, UNTIL, some more powerful politician/official [/b]decides to use that card to get a rival out of the way. Justice works that way in developed countries?
Did you read this post of yours after typing it?Again, what happens in Nigeria DOES NOT happen everywhere? So, let us please focus on discussing this within the Nigerian context in which we are sure it applies, more like institutionalized, and loose this "I PRETEND IT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE SO IT IS OK" attitude to tackling OUR issues.

I don't know why, but whenever you argue, you lose the ability to see things from another angle.

Most high level crimes are not detected when they happen (that doesn't mean they are ignored), and many times, in politics, even in developed countries, political opponents dig up dirt on themselves, and if you have significant dirt, it will be thrown at you and used against you.

And as i said, there aint nothing wrong with that, coz eventually peoople will realize that your dirt can and will be used against you in the court of law and most smart ones will clean up!!!

Politicians in Naija have a lot of dirt, so what do you expect them to throw all the time?

I hope you will understand that.

ziga:

Score points for my Nigeria. . . Come on, don't be petty, do you think i'm into this to score points, or to see who wins the argument?

Going by the lines you have been offering so far, it seems that is what this is to you. We are discussing justice in Nigeria, NOT JUDGING Justice systems in Other countries. Your continued NEED to inject others leads me to believe you likely do not see the problem in our current system in Nigeria.

ziga:

I believe the origin of all this talk is so that we can maturely rationalize a better technique for proper implementation of Justice in "My Nigeria"
But unfortunately, the only thing i've been hearing from you is this/that can't work.
Alright ma, what can work?

Um . . . What else do you think? I mean, you don't need to INVENT a solution. It already EXISTS . . . as the @Poster has mentioned so many times now, all we need do is APPLY the solutions - at getting it to where it ought to be rather than continuing to settle for what we have had now for over 20 years, which seems to be empowering the minority/criminals more than it has the people.
Read some of @Chidicris's post on what we have gotten in the past couple of years to see that what we continue to get is not justice - we have a system that makes fun of us as a people, and a nation.

ziga:

I don't know why, but whenever you argue, you lose the ability to see things from another angle.
Most high level crimes are not detected when they happen (that doesn't mean they are ignored), and many times, in politics, even in developed countries, political opponents dig up dirt on themselves, and if you have significant dirt, it will be thrown at you and used against you.

You know what I think you ought to do a bit more often than not? Take the line below . . .

ziga:

I don't know why, but whenever you argue, you lose the ability to see things from another angle.

Think on it some, and then apply what you get to what you post.

You tell us that MOST high level crimes ARE NOT DETECTED WHEN THEY HAPPEN, and then you also tell us that opponents DIG UP DIRT on themselves.
Let's take the Ibori case for instance. When the crime happened, it was NOT HIDDEN, not even from the public - the people knew they were being fleeced by the man. The law, and Ibori's opponents knew of the crimes -- his opponents didn't have to DIG Up dirt on him. They had information and knew it too but could not do anything since they were not in control of power at the time. In Nigeria, the ones in power CONTROL the degree to which the laws of the land are implemented, it seems.
The same law was used to clear this man of all charges brought against him earlier, supposedly by his opponents. But now that power has changed hands in the country - his opponents are in power, the same law is now being used to target him yet again. Note: in all that time, the crimes were never really hidden, evidence never really changed. Even the law did not change but only the hands in which power lay did.
So, how exactly are we to believe this is SIMILAR to what happens in your picture of the developed world?

ziga:

And as i said, there aint nothing wrong with that, coz eventually peoople will realize that your dirt can and will be used against you in the court of law and most smart ones will clean up!!!

Nothing wrong with that? Eventually? Ever read of the stories of EFCC catching fire? How can your dirt be used against you when the same court of law clears you of the same dirt or the EFCC is unable to produce evidence of the dirt because someone in power conveniently burns all the evidence? This seems to happen quite a lot in Nigeria these days.

ziga:

Politicians in Naija have a lot of dirt, so what do you expect them to throw all the time?
I hope you will understand that.

Politics and justice eating from the same plate- I am to understand it is alright? No, I still believe what we have has proven detrimental to our progress as a people and a nation, and we need, now more than ever, to break that bond between the two so we can have a more effective justice system - one that is not control by Politicians with a lot of dirt, leaving the people at the mercy of criminals who ought to be locked away for life somewhere.

Alright. . . .

Now, it seems you are ready to talk.

I agree with you that the law is already in place.

And i'm sure you will agree with me that corruption permeates every aspect of Nigeria, from the law enforcement, judiciary, prisons, common man, just to list a few.

So with this "law" already in existence, how do we implement it, when everybody has been benefiting from it one way or another to varying degrees.

And YES. i stand by my words, that everybody has benefited from the corruption in one way or another but to varying degrees.

That is why the degree of partiality with regards to implementation of the law in developed countries is nothing compared to what we have here.

But, i think the system we have currently in Naija is a natural solution, because it will be almost impossible to have the eutopia we all dream of without growing through certain stages.

Slowly but surely, wolves will eat wolves. Initially, when power changes, judgement may be reversed, but the politicians will device smarter ways of keeping their opponents out for good.

Automatically, standards of governance will increase, and you will see (actually, we have started to see) some politicians rise higher than others, in terms of moving towards the ideal.

And eventually we will have less wolves in the system and thus, we'll get closer to the ideal.

But still, the initial step is punishment of the guilty, whether partial or impartial. . .  And sometimes, making examples of a single criminal amongst a group will change the mind of others.

You may be thinking the change that will happen will be limited to these politicians changing their allegiance, but i tell you the changes will go a lot deeper than that.

obailala:

@wirinet, Kobojunkie, princekevo et al.

Nobody is saying it is not selective justice and nobody is also saying the present system of selective justice is the best. All we are saying is, "half bread is better than none." The kind of justice system we so wish for is not possible in Nigeria. . .not with our present political class which is made up of 98% corrupt individuals who have been (s)elected. You all have to wake up from your wild dreams and face reality. This is Naija!!!

We all should at least be happy if someone like Ibori can be brought down by this flawed system cos we would actually have 1 less criminal politician (out of thousands) to worry about. As slow and ineffective as this present system may appear to be, it is worthy of note that there is no other solution for this epidemic in Nigeria.

Saying the system is bad isnt enough cos every Nigerian (even a child) knows that. The question remains, what do we do? . . do we sit back and wait for a perfect system before we do something?. . I challenge any one of you who has a better and PRACTICAL solution (that will work in this our Naija) to spit it out.

LOL!!! So in your mind you believe that Ibori will someday be brought down to justice with the current ineffective system? If that is what u have at the back of your mind i think you should be the one to wake up from sleep. Did you hear that Ibori is seeking for asylum in Dubai which i believe will be granted to him jst US and UK granted ribadu and El rufai. He will be there until his own paddy come into power he will be back to Nigerian and rewarded with a higher post. Dey there dey jubiliate in your half bread.

Am not in support of any of this criminals if there is any one who would want all of them to be executed by hanging is me. But what is going on in Nigerian today is far from justice, they are jst playing with lil mind as yours. So that is why am in some way subscribing to the poster opinion, coz all these bulls.hit from EFCC are all wast of time. Moreover i don't believe in that your poor man philosophy of half bread is better than none. How long shall we depend on half bread?  Those getting full bread are they better than you and i, or they got 2heads with 4 hands?

Wake up man.

please whatever you do, do not put ibori and ribadu in the basket again. basket mouth.
i for don listen to you but that was unpardonable. were!

ziga:

So with this "law" already in existence, how do we implement it, when everybody has been benefiting from it one way or another to varying degrees.
And YES. i stand by my words, that everybody has benefited from the corruption in one way or another but to varying degrees.

Only 20 years ago, in the same Nigeria, only a few people could boast of benefiting from corruption. Matter of fact, it was frowned upon back then. But today, it is almost considered in our blood as a people. The laws exit and it is humans that need to implement those laws. The how is simple action . . . . implementation is nothing but taking action according to the law. It is nothing new. Those who do it elsewhere do not halos.

ziga:

But, i think the system we have currently in Naija is a natural solution, because it will be almost impossible to have the eutopia we all dream of without growing through certain stages.

A Natural solution to what? You do realize that we had, at one time, a close to 80% non-selective justice, now it is UTOPIA to you? Grow through certain stages? Didn't we already do that back when we had a serious system in place? How many times do we need to subject ourselves to these same GROWING stages you claim?

ziga:

Slowly but surely, wolves will eat wolves. Initially, when power changes, judgement may be reversed, but the politicians will device smarter ways of keeping their opponents out for good.

You have had 20 years to learn that this never is the case. 20 years ago, majority of Nigerians were not corrupt individuals living off corruption. The sheep of yesterday are now the wolves of today, and you would rather choose, against all evidence, to believe that somehow, auto-magically, the wolves will take themselves out without you lifting a finger or doing anything about the situation?
You believe that somehow one side will out of the blues become seriously smarter than the other side -- the other side will sit back watching the other side take them out with resistance of no kind? my my!

ziga:

Automatically, standards of governance will increase, and you will see (actually, we have started to see) some politicians rise higher than others, in terms of moving towards the ideal.
And eventually we will have less wolves in the system and thus, we'll get closer to the ideal.
But still, the initial step is punishment of the guilty, whether partial or impartial. . . And sometimes, making examples of a single criminal amongst a group will change the mind of others.
You may be thinking the change that will happen will be limited to these politicians changing their allegiance, but i tell you the changes will go a lot deeper than that.

I am not thinking that at all . . . I am thinking "What the heck have you been smoking, dude!" lol

Lol. I guess only you can tell me what i been smoking.

Kobojunkie:

Grow through certain stages? Didn't we already do that back when we had a serious system in place? How many times do we need to subject ourselves to these same GROWING stages you claim?You have had 20 years to learn that this never is the case. 20 years ago, majority of Nigerians were not corrupt individuals living off corruption.

yes, i agree. . . Implementation is the key. But who will implement? The police that will rather collect some bribe to make extra money for their family? or the Judiciary that works hand in hand with the political office holders, or who will even testify, the common man who will receive some bribe to shut up?

I don't know how you expect people who benefit from a system to auto-magically start to implement the Law perfectly.

So, i don't see how your implementation theory will work. First, we need to make big examples. . . partial or not.

From what you have said, you believe Nigeria has already gone through the stages i tried to describe. But i do not agree.

True. Previously corruption was frowned at when things were good. Thereafter, for so many reasons, a lot of things degenerated completely, and for the past 20 years corruption grew in Nigeria.

Guess why? I can't remember anybody being tried for corrupt practices (partial or impartial) for so long until OBJ came along in 1999. We Nigerians cried selective justice, but even the States acknowledged his efforts against corruption.

We are just getting to the stage where we realize that we need to arrest and try corrupt public officials, even if it is by their corrupt counterparts.

And if we don't pass through this, then you are the one who's expecting magic.

If you don't agree with me on this point, then i don't think you will ever see my point of view.

Selective justice as the poster said is no justice at all

Deep sight, sky blue, OAM4J and my other fellows who have been saying the fact here on this thread. No waste your breath. I don't know why reality can be so obvious and some people will choose to believe to live in the virtual world. The point is noted. We are living in one world that can't be perfect. What annoyed me most was the guy who was talking about the Clinton-Lewinsky case. Please if you need to state examples, check very well with facts and correlation. I'm not here to talk. I'm just here to tell you guys that until you learn that the Sun that shines in the north isn't different from that in the South, then you haven't learn anything.

ziga:

Most high level crimes are not detected when they happen (that doesn't mean they are ignored), and many times, in politics, even in developed countries, political opponents dig up dirt on themselves, and if you have significant dirt, it will be thrown at you and used against you.

And as i said, there aint nothing wrong with that, coz eventually peoople will realize that your dirt can and will be used against you in the court of law and most smart ones will clean up!!!

Politicians in Naija have a lot of dirt, so what do you expect them to throw all the time?

I hope you will understand that.

Are you serious? Most high level crimes are not detected when they happen? I am sure you are saying that just for the sake of argument. Most politicians on the right side of the law power, steal in broad day light, and with photo opportunity for all to see. Iwu withdrew all INECs money after he was sacked, are you telling me that is hiiden from you. What about Yaradua's cabal that was withdrawing money and awarding contracts during the yaradua's saga like it was going out of fashion soon. Did anenih steal the over  N300 billion naira meant for road at night?

There is no way you can steal the kind of money politicians still in Nigeria and not leave a trace.
Now they want to build a run way forN 64 billion or is it N57 billion, when others are building whole modern airports for one third the amount. Is that hidden also.

Please call a spade a spade.

ziga:

Lol. I guess only you can tell me what i been smoking.
yes, i agree. . . Implementation is the key. But who will implement? The police that will rather collect some bribe to make extra money for their family? or the Judiciary that works hand in hand with the political office holders, or who will even testify, the common man who will receive some bribe to shut up?

You asked what the solution was, and I told you it was not rocket science. Yes, the police and law makers and enforces need to be MADE(Note Action) to get to work. Or how else do you get to a point where the laws are implemented without the official implementers of the law being involved?

ziga:

I don't know how you expect people who benefit from a system to auto-magically start to implement the Law perfectly.

hhm . . . but you expect us to believe if we fold our arms a bit longer( even after over 20 of waiting and watching it all go to hell in a hand basket) the wolves will take out the other wolves and then somehow go away, and the system will jumpstart itself automagically?
Come on!! Nowhere have I stated INACTION is the key. Action continues to be the key to move us from where we are - a place we know is not working at all for us -- to where we ought to be.

ziga:

So, i don't see how your implementation theory will work. First, we need to make big examples. . . partial or not.
From what you have said, you believe Nigeria has already gone through the stages i tried to describe. But i do not agree.
True. Previously corruption was frowned at when things were good. Thereafter, for so many reasons, a lot of things degenerated completely, and for the past 20 years corruption grew in Nigeria.

Implementation is NOT theory. In order to get anything done, you have to DO something - something to set the wheels rolling, and lead to the results you expect/want. That DOING process is what implementation refers to here.

ziga:

Guess why? I can't remember anybody being tried for corrupt practices (partial or impartial) for so long until OBJ came along in 1999. We Nigerians cried selective corruption, but even the States acknowledged his efforts against corruption.
We are just getting to the stage where we realize that we need to arrest and try corrupt public officials, even if it is by their corrupt counterparts.

We are just getting to the stage? Corruption used to be frowned upon and caught as soon as it was detected. Politicians knew the penalties and consequences of being caught in corrupt deals back before things changed. . .  Go back to cases like Abiolas etc. Many were tried and had their careers almost crippled, even though there was not enough evidence to convict many back then.
We are NOT just getting to any stage. We are just seeing a continuation of the same we have had for the last 20 years. Only now the media sensationalizes it more than it used to and it suddenly seems ALL NEW to persons who have not been keeping up with happenings in at least the last 2 decades.  

ziga:

And if we don't pass through this, then you are the one who's expecting magic. If you don't agree with me on this point, then i don't think you will ever see my point of view.

Don't confuse my stance with yours there. I believe we already know it can work better even in Nigeria, it did in the days before we decided to take 5 steps backwards. And how did we get it working even then? Simple. . . by moving from folding our arms and waiting on the wolves to automagically take themselves out( something that does not seem likely because they are good at switch sides these days as soon as power equilibrium starts shifting) to demanding and acting to get what we need done.