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Nairaland Forum / Entertainment / Sports / John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup (9914 Views)
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Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by Sagamite(m): 11:16am On Jun 08, 2010 |
Dr Kitaun: Me? Generalise? If you see me where I have throw a net over every Amodu critic please notify me. Knowing myself, I am pretty much sure I would usually have used adjectives like "some", "majority" etc when I can. I am focused more on morons like chidichris. You are guilty of some of these criticism too like Home-based players ones, he must win ANC (like if SE has some dominant players in Africa), his winning is luck, he has a wrong team selection etc. |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by Sagamite(m): 11:20am On Jun 08, 2010 |
Can you see the utterances of a cretin that I was talking about? chidichris: |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by Sagamite(m): 11:47am On Jun 08, 2010 |
tkb417: I try and study people, and you were only guilty of saying you were not happy with style of play. Fair enough. Some of the style of play was not top-notch. Sometimes the work-rate or the defending of SE lets you have your heart in your mouth. That to me is partly players fault, partly coach fault. A coach can not hold your legs and force you to run on the pitch when it is time. All he can do is select based on ability profile and give instructions and make subs. I would say it is pretty difficult for a coach that is constantly being criticised (because he is not white enough) to deal with these as most of the players guilty are the superstars that if he does not select and WE LOSE? "OH LORD! That is the complete evidence he is a useless coach". Imagine TT was dropped before the Tunisia draw in Abuja, you think if we did not win Tunisia he would have a job? Imagine he dropped Yobo the regular of Everton without his injury at ANC, you think he would not be hanged? And these are the kind of big players that were messing up. All he could do, on the short term, is coach them and hope they heed, but you cannot control idiocy and retardation on the pitch (like TT's vs Tunisia) for 90 mins. No coach can. Most use the whip of dropping a player later but this whip is not available to a local coach or even foreign ones for certain players until they have messed up. And before any slowpoke comes here and starts chatting crap, let me say: NO COACH OF CIV (LOCAL OR FOREIGN) CAN BENCH DROGBA (e.g. if he observes in training that Drogba, although fit, his shot accuracy has dropped, so he plays a lower profile player on fire in training) AND THE COACH WILL SURVIVE IF THEY LOSE! NO COACH CAN BENCH ESSIEN AND SURVIVE! The fans and the FA need to see these types of players F up BIIIIIIIIIG TIME before accepting their dropping. So when TT showed his uselessness and was no more idolised, Amodu saw the opportunity and dropped him. He got lucky Yobo got injured in ANC and another calamity was out of the way. A coach needs time to be able to set things right (like for people to see the faults in the likes of TT and accept his dropping), not the success tomorrow mentality of Naija moronic fans, that was why I said Amodu should be given time. Furthermore, I keep on telling you that this SE is no where close and not as talented as 1994 team. Don't compare them. The players are not as skilful and not as hungry. They are mediocre. Moreover, under Amodu, they were put under irrational pressures that affected them on the pitch like "NOTHING SHORT OF WINNING ANC IS ACCEPTABLE" (because Drogba and CIV and other teams are their to sell guguru). That is why I said I don't mind them winning UGLY. Win games like Greece of 2004. Score one goal and sit back and defend organisably. I am happy with that with this team, although they showed slight bit of flair under Amodu in batches of the match (vs, Tunisia [Abuja], vs Mozambique [Abuja] vs Kenya [Both] and vs in first 6 games of qualifiers). I guess Lagerback has seen some of this mediocrity as he has picked almost exactly the same players. I have said it before, our problem is: "I came up with the conclusion from what I saw in our games that these are the problems and definitely not the coach: * Commitment - Our players show no hunger and commitment on the pitch like if they are ready to die on the pitch. This a coach needs time to develop AND SUSTAIN, we saw glimpses of it when we needed to score Tunisia and Mozambique in Abuja and against Kenya in Nairobi. It is hard to achieve and sustain, and harder to achieve with black Africans. Hardest with "I am too important" mentally-caused Nigerians. * Creativity - There is no creative player that has a Nigerian passport at the moment that is known to be able to play at that level. Hence commitment above becomes more important with the use of people like Odems to do what they can with creativity. * A Leader - Very few teams win anything without an obvious leader in the team. We have no Drogba, Essien, Etoo that can change a game in an instance, motivate or carry the team. The closest we have is Kanu, but he can not play more than 25 mins because he is 55 years old. Yobo is not an inspirational leader but is the captain as Odems does not have the charisma to carry that clout." |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by tkb417(m): 11:53am On Jun 08, 2010 |
Good stuff my verdict on the team will be after the world cup let me see if things will change if not its U-17, U-21 and the olympic teams for me |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by DrKitaun(m): 2:36pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
Sagamite we don hear u . . . AMODU IS THE BEST COACH IN THE WORLD ! happy now ? |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by Sagamite(m): 3:48pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
Dr Kitaun: Is that the best you've got as defence? |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by medjai(m): 3:51pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
@ sagamite u're spot on. Most of the people that were excoriating Amodu were just band wagon followers. Some had valid reasons but most were just subscribing to popular opinion in order to blend in or not feel isolated. A classic case of the 'Spiral of Silence Theory'. Same thing goes for those that are against Kanu's inclusion in the team to SA. I had an arguement with some dude and he said Amodu is a bad coach because he doesnt stand up to dish instructions during the course of play. Of all reasons. How does standing up to give instructions guarantee a team of victory? Besides, isnt it possible that he might have discussed every possible scenario with his players in the dressing room? Some based their arguements on his not inviting certain as if it is not job to decide who nr who doesnt play. The most popular of the anti Amodu comments is 'he is technically incompetent'. As popular as this comment was, it was never explained and in cases where they try to, they go back to the previous two. |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by Sagamite(m): 3:56pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
medjai: Don't mind the morons. Sam Allardyce seats in the crowd during games and took Bolton with mediocre players to great heights. A Ukrainian coach never stands up or says a word during games, he never even celebrate goals, just seats on the bench and looks. But he took Dynamo Kiev to the peaks at Champions League. Ignorant, moronic, nonsensical criticisms. |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by medjai(m): 4:01pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
I'm not saying that Amodu's abilities as a coach are impeccable. My point is that Amodu is a good coach and does not deserve to have been treated terribly like he was treated. Even Berti Vogts that fared worse wasnt treated as bad as Amodu was treated. These anti Amodu's would never have been pleased unless a White skinned man was in charge. |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by chidichris(m): 4:16pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
@ sagamite @medjai, yes mention my name here and nothing do u brother. amodu behaves like someone who is always afraid. there is no such thing as telling the players everything in the dressing room. the other thing(sagamite) mentioned allardyce and someother coaches that seat inside their bed room while games are one. so who is he in the coaching business? why not make refference with world renowed coaches like fergie, mourinho, ancelloti, pep, hiddink, scolari, mancini, wenger, benitez etc i mean men whose achievements in soccer move mountains. a coach shld be able to monitor games and make tactical moves and changes when called for.if you think amodu is a coach, while is he not coaching anyother team outside super eagles? can't he apply for jobs in england, spain, italy or even benin republic? watch him, even when our big players are not doing fine on the pitch, he is afraid to change them. tell amodu to prove us wrong like keshi did when he took togo to world cup and took mali to nation's cup. is this ur amodu trained strictly for the eagles? pls answer this simple question or pass it to that thing(sagamite) to asnwer. |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by waledoy(m): 4:24pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
Of course, you want the best Nigerian players to play for Nigeria at the World Cup. I would have loved to have Mikel in the squad but he had an injury while playing for his club towards the end of the season and that has ruled him out of the World Cup. I’m not happy about this but this is football.L LB |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by tkb417(m): 4:33pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
@ sagamitewhen many people go against you cos of the quality of ur work and u think they have stupid reasons for criticising u, then ur appreciation of the word quality should be questioned The Super Eagles under Amodu were CRAPPY. End off the story!!! The 3 Lions were crappy under all the coaches untill they got Capello bros, you will not struggle to spot a good team under a good coach. The output will be hailed by all and sundry. If you believe Amodu was the best for eagles judging from past displays, then somethn is wrong somewhere |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by medjai(m): 4:46pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
@tkb Amodu did not fare as badly as it was being portrayed plus he got the results. If you can equate Super Eagles performance under Amodu with the quality in the team then you'd see that Amodu did not do badly. People deliberately refused to see the good in what Amodu had to offer. @ chidichris how many African coaches have coached outside Africa? Like Keshi, Amodu has coached outside Nigeria. He coached Orlando Pirates in South Africa and he led them to the league title |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by Sagamite(m): 4:50pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
chidichris: This guy is really a retard! medjai: Thank you. He is not world class but definitely not a bad/poor coach. tkb417: Most people did not go against him because of the quality of his work. He was condemned from the minute he got hired (mostly because the daft journalists only feel comfortable with whites). He was condemned even when he won 6 straight games without the opponents scoring a single goal. They continued to condemn and stepped up the condemnation when he drew with Mozambique like if it was a crime. He was not given an inch (because of his skin colour) to settle down and apply his influence as freely as possible. The same way he was treated after impressive outing in Confed cup 2005 and WC 2002 (when he lost a semi-final after a Minister came a day before to tell his team they were, as usual, not going to refund their air fare), where he was dismissed without sense. Nigeria played fairly well under Amodu but an unreasonable fan base still living in euphoria of the 90s, not facing realities on the ground, did not notice. They expect to even thrash CIV 2-0 if SE met them. DREEEEEEEAMERS! This is the 2000s, we are mediocre! No player in out team is in the Top 10 in AFRICA, don't let us even go world. None will enter top 100 in the world. The one and only match I will condemn him and find indefensible was vs Zambia. But every coach has a bad day even with WORLD CLASS players when not under ridiculous pressure Amodu and his team were, not the burukutu players we have. Nigeria is no better than USA at this very moment due to player quality. |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by chidichris(m): 4:59pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
Most people did not go against him because of the quality of his work. @sagamite, nigeria is over 150 million in population. if amodu felt the players were not good enough, he had more than enough time to get new ones. a good coach must be able to bring in new good players. don't tell me that good players were only available in nigeria in the 90s. if this new coach has much time like amodu, new and beautiful players will be noticed and brought into the team. if what amodu did(inviting already made players and hiding behind bars when matches are on) was the role of a coach, then every nigerian can be called a coach and paid like amodu was paid. |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by Sagamite(m): 5:05pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
chidichris: Chants: Retard! Retard! Retard! According to his usual cretinous opinion, so China should be winning all WCs and India should be in second place. |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by tkb417(m): 5:08pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
Nigeria played fairly well under Amodu but an unreasonable fan base stil living in euphoria of the 90s, not facing realities on the ground, did not notice. They expect to even thrash CIV 2-0 if SE met them. DREEEEEEEAMERS! This is the 2000s, we are mediocre! No player in out team is in the Top 10 in AFRICA, don't let us even go world.exactly!!! you dont need individually players to play good football Angola gave a good account at the last nations cup with players that are relatively unknown at least compared to Nigeria. Slovenia, Slovakia are countries with few recognizable talented players but they are very solid on the field and they play good football it may interest you that USA that you compared to Nigeria played beautiful footie at the last confederations cup and they lost to either Brasil/Spain in a thriller Under Amodu, i cannot remember a day the super eagles played fantastic football. i repeat, you dont need exceptional players to move the ball around, create chances and defend like human beings (not animals) I tot Amodus role was to instill fire, focus, passion, discipline and most importantly the winning mentality that used to be our hallmark please, the 1994 team were not overly talented but were hungry and determined to excel and they had a coach who wanted success at all cost. Th black stars of Ghana, the elephants of CIV, the chipolopolo of Zambia and even the indomitable lions of cmeroon were better teams in 94 but we were lucky to have won the nations cup most of our players in 94 didnt have good teams in europe except for a few of them but they were handled by a coach who brought out the best in them. what we asked for when amodu was on was something close to what we were used to but he couldnt. A good coach even with the present crop of players can still retrun Nigeria back to our good old days thats my point! - amodu was not good enuff for the super eagles |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by Meldrick(m): 5:11pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
I'm really impressed with Mikel's decision. It shows he has the interest of the country at heart. Trust some players they will force their way through depriving others the opprtunity to play for the country. Thumbs up Mikel. National Interest first. |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by Sagamite(m): 5:19pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
tkb417: Yep, I am being slightly ignorant. USA is far better than us. I agree that you do not need good players to have a team that plays good football, BUT you need time to build such team and definitely more time or not under unbelievable and ediotic pressure. It is not a tomorrow thing, it takes time. Westerhof had 5 years. The Capello you frequently refer to: - Is a world class coach - Has at least 6 world class players in his team and another 12 top players, Nigeria can not even count 6 top players talkless of world class - His team all play in the same league, hence with similar style. It is not as easy to bring players from different leagues (English, Italian, Spanish, Ukrainian etc), with different styles every 3 months and be as quick in creating the team. It takes longer time. - Was not working under unbelievable, impatient, disrespectful pressure (he has the benefit of default respect) - Was dealing with players from countries with work ethics, not the retarded bigmanism of Naija players To instill fire, focus, passion, discipline and most importantly the winning mentality in NAIJA players needs time and a lot of iteration. Not a thing that can be achieved instantly. The least that can be given (especially by the press) to Amodu when he keeps on meeting all his targets is the time to build a more solid team not rampant news of "the agreement reached to sack him". Also some retards in Nigeria were saying he should be sacked so we can achieve semi-finals at WC. I am not one that predicts, but with these bunch of players? Get to Semis? I laugh. |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by tkb417(m): 5:26pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
ok o i don here |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by Sagamite(m): 5:29pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
tkb417: The key question is do you agree with at least the above? Or you just agree to disagree to agree that we agree that we disagree on what we can not agree on when we do not disagree to agree? |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by DrKitaun(m): 5:50pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
Sagamu Amodu's players are Lager's players, so ? Robocop na hin player, Lukman Haruna ? Adeleye was CRIMINALLY DROPPED, na Amodu boy ? Truth is: Amodu isnt better than Christian Chukwu nor is better than Austin Eguavoen, na silver and bronze family dem all belong to . . . A good coach in modern footie doesnt need to look as sickly as Amodu does ! 3 matches on, Lagerbest has given us hope, has rejuvenated our wing play to an extent and has instilled in our boys a long lost confidence in themselves. |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by Sagamite(m): 5:56pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
Dr Kitaun: So where are the home-based players you criticised Amodu for in the Lagerback team? Dr Kitaun: So Ike was not criminally dropped? That is OK isn't it? Anichebe was not criminally dropped, whilst Utaka was selected? Dr Kitaun: Really? You really got hope from the Saudi and N. Korea matches? Please explain what hope you got from those 2 matches. Separate the explanation please. |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by tkb417(m): 5:58pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
Sagamite:i said i don hear! agree to what? all man to his beliefs Amodu had time to prepare us for a good tourney in Angola but failed the country with one of the most insipid displays ive seen from a footballing country like ours. mister man, leave me alone |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by Sagamite(m): 5:59pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
tkb417: OK, I don here. |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by tkb417(m): 6:07pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
Sagamite: u dey crase shey because i typed here, u sef con type here ur head no correct |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by montelik(m): 6:10pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
@ Sagamite. I appreciate your vigor in trying to make your point, I myself have engaged many people on this same issue among many others. But as you yourself have pointed out in your points, there are just some people within the super eagles community who will never be open minded when it comes to Amodu and the general state of Nigerian football. You will grow gray hairs here, trying to change peoples minds. |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by Sagamite(m): 6:11pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
tkb417: Actually, na genuine error on my part too. But if you help me cover up. Good. |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by chidichris(m): 6:25pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
sagamite, why are u concentrating ur arguement only on amodu? what about other coaches of nigerian blood that have served this country and were sacked? do u know chief onigbinde? what about chukwu? have u heard of keshi? why not add them in ur refference or are u saying amodu is in a different class as a coach? |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by montelik(m): 6:43pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
chidichris:1) Onigbinde was only appointed to take Nigeria to Japan/Korea 02. He never signaled an intention to take up the job long-term, so I doubt you can say he was sacked. 2) Chukwu was sacked after about 3 years in charge during which we placed 3rd at the ANC and were fumbling to qualify for Germany 06. Eventually we failed to qualify. 3) Keshi has never been chief coach of the SE. The only instance of sacking was when he (as an assistant to Amodu) was fired after the nation cup in 02, despite helping qualifying us for the world cup after Jo Bonfere left us in a ditch. To answer your question highlighted above. Yes he is in different class compared to the people you mentioned above. Amodu has a more impressive record as super eagles coach (rivaled only by Westerhof). He has qualified Nigeria for 2 world cups. Yet he has been fired even though he met the targets of his employment contract. |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by chidichris(m): 6:55pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
1) Onigbinde was only appointed to take Nigeria to Japan/Korea 02. He never signaled an intention to take up the job long-term, so I doubt you can say he was sacked. @montelik, i love ur analysis and i will like u to be my friend because u have information. well, like the nigerian greatest president who brought nigeria to its greatest developmental status, obasanjo wanted a third term despite its illegalities and many of us supported the idea, BASED ON THE ABOVE HIGHLIGHTED ACHIEVEMENTS OF AMODU, WOULD U WANT HIM TO CONTINUE AS THE NIGERIAN HEAD COACH TILL DEATH DO US PART? AGAIN, WILL IT BE WORTH SAYING THAT DESPITE ALL THESE ACHIEVEMENTS OF AMODU, NO OTHER COUNTRY OF THIS WORLD HAS FOUND HIM WORTHY OF TAKING THEIR COUNTRY FOOTBALL TO THE HIGHEST LEVEL AS HE HAS DONE TO OURS? IS IT POSSIBLE THAT AMODU'S COACHING EXPERIENCES ARE RESTRICTED TO THE SUPER EAGLES? IS IT POSSIBLE TO SAY THAT THE ERA OF GOOD AND QUALITY PLAYERS ARE GONE IN NIGEFRIA? BECAUSE ONIGBINDE WAS APPOINTED FOR JUST WORLD CUP, NO ONE EXPECTED ANYTHING FROM HIM AND SINCE OUR CURRENT COACH IS ON THE SAME TYPE OF CONTRACT, NIGERIANS SHLD NOT EXPECT ANYTHING FROM HIM? I BELIEVE STRONGLY THAT AMODU IS STILL WAITING TO BE RE-APPOINTED THE SUPER EAGLES COACH AT THE END OF SA2010, DO U THINK THE SAME WAY? like i said earlier on, u have quality and class in ur answers and i found no atom of insult in ur response hence i pray thee to continue in this act of gentility as u approach these few questions of mine. |
Re: John Obi Mikel Out Of World Cup by medjai(m): 7:17pm On Jun 08, 2010 |
Chidichris, i told you earlier that Amodu once coached Orlando Pirates in South Africa but you keep saying that Amodu is so technically inept that no one wants him some where else. I think you are one of those that will never see anything good in Amodu |
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