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Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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The False And Heretic Apocraphal Books Added To The Bible By Catholic Church. / Contending The False And Heretic Teachings By Obadiah777 / What Apostle Paul Had To Say About Tithes And Other Heretic Teachings (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by bawomolo(m): 8:53pm On Jun 06, 2010
what/who would be considered heretic? a seventh day adventist, a protestant, a greek orthodox?
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by Joagbaje(m): 9:17pm On Jun 06, 2010
nuclearboy:

^^^ Your pastors are impregnating multiple church members! Your men wear vanity! You misquote/misuse God's Word. Your ministry is known for love-peddlers. Most thefts commited in society are linked to your church and the perpertrators bring all to you proving you influenced them to steal. Your doctrine is watery and shallow. You are vain and proud. Chris himself looks/lives like a swivel hipped transverstite (maybe thats why the wife moved away).

And now obviously, you've started sniffing gum to think that with the above, you are a light. Dude, you cannot successfully illuminate a currency note

They are the most wonderful Christians I tell you. Of course everybody may not be perfect in a church . They are still growing . You don't blame a pastor for that.,few of them may still be babes. it's people like you doing CEC hunting that blows their matters beyond proportion as though everybody is like that and as though that's what pastor Chris teaches.
Pastor Chris may not have a 100% perfect congregation. Because people come everyday. Jesus didn't have 100% perfect congregation either.

And who told you there are love peddlers in CEC. for what I know . The ministry through the innner-city mission reaches out to love peddlers and makes saints out of them. If that makes him evil. He is only doing what Jesus did.
By the way , how do you recognize these love peddlers ? WERE YOU A COSTUMERRR? tell us.
grin grin grin grin
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by nuclearboy(m): 9:28pm On Jun 06, 2010
^^^ I wonder why you are displaying teeth. Even on the web, your breath stinks, your teeth are brownish and stained with the blood you suck from your mugus.

All over NL, multiple posts from multiple posters have spoken of the intimacy caliber of your members! You want to tell me you've not read them? In my own capacity, I have a staff who attends your church - whist not a professional peddler, her conduct is scary. Imagine a young woman being picked up from work (and/or visited) by over 20 cars weekly. She's always declaring fast food joint surpluses for the young guys. I watched her closely in the past cos I feared she might have learnt the "lawrence Agaba" gambit so I know. When her fellow "choir" members visit, I fear for my "guys" safety. The conversation is "deadly!

Want to hear more?
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by Gunnaz007: 12:54am On Jun 07, 2010
^^^ My good old friend, if you were God, u would u forgive any one? , let's assume Lawrence Agaba stole your money, it appears u would neva 4give him ,,, You recursively dig out this story as full-prove of your convictions of cec,,, was it your money Whereva d dude stole d doe from, dat organization moved on (i believe it's ova 3 years now) while u are here burning charcoal recursively ova another man's mud kitchen,

Continuos reference to dat story against cec makes one infer that your wife is in trouble ooo . . . lol

And your choice of words against cec does not indicate you truely want cec to come out of your "conjective conclusions" about her (perhaps that's y u failed to include "love" in your "list of truths" as observed by a poster)

By d way which church/fellowship do u attend? Or are u one of d "sit on the fence and criticize" crew? lol.

Invite me to your church buddy . . . "dat perfect church/fellowship were d single sistas are virgins until dey are married, and were dere are no love peddlers therein"

Best Regards
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by nuclearboy(m): 8:02am On Jun 07, 2010
^^^ Gunnaz (my esteemed kisser grin),

You guys don't get me! Joagbaje keeps on with "I am Christ" etc so I keep on with "Lawrence Agaba". Stop the self-righteousness posturing and I'll stop the "bringing you down to earth". Why would I state there's not enough proof (for ME) that your pastor is a cultist in "New Age, , " if I hated him or have agenda against him?

What you keep saying is that you are "God/Christ". Well, God does not steal and does not have such fruit. So consider this as a wake-up call. We are simply human and thus prone to "human failings". When you forget that, I remind you. BTW, my wife knows she's human. Joagbaje does not and he is making "regular" people believe same about themselves! That IMO, is a licence for them to do as they wish yet claim superiority over others. Very unbecoming.
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by DeepSight(m): 10:04am On Jun 07, 2010
In depth analysis (a direct consequence of a shortcoming) is a book of more than one enlightened contributor. Everyone writes a chapter, you see the problem is some of us want to pass their chapter off as the whole book.

My cousin wrote the foregoing to me regarding a football argument. I think it is also apt here.

Might i also point out that Jesus in his day was considered a heretic by conventional Juadaists.

So let us be careful when we assume that persons who do not espouse conventional doctrines are necessarily heretics.
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by Tonyet1(m): 10:42am On Jun 07, 2010
From the inception of this thread i could deduce the OP's intentions. Self-righteous fanaticism seems even an understatement.

Firstly: Your understanding of the term 'doctrine' in your POV is right but wrong it would be when you tend to subject folks to that rather limited sphere. If my grammar were anything to reckon with then sarcasm will explain it better.

I think a better def. of the word “Doctrine” in my POV would mean a set of guidelines that defines how people live and how livelihood is conducted with the confinement of their chosen allegiance.

ALL scriptures(OT and NT) are given BY GOD and are profitable for DOCTRINE. Therefore let not him who eats meat condemn he who doesn’t eat meat(scriptures). Afterall the both found their faith and belief system on the same biblos.

If I choose to assume the
“goD(solution) is me consciousness” I am in every way still right within the holy biblos. Afterall “ye are gods (scriptures)”.

If another chooses to assume the
“GOD(solution) for me consciousness” He is still right within the holy biblos. Afterall “trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your understanding [inherent power]” (scriptures).

If I choose to found my doctrine that females should not teach (Paul’s view) I am also within the confinement of the biblos. And if another does the contrary such is still right within the confinement of the afore mentioned following Jesus’ view.

A prejudice more than a sin it will mean if I raise up my voice to say my dogma is al-suprema over anothers. Before we spot at the speck in another’s eye let us all remove the LOG in our eyes (scriptures). Note the word LOG* it means everyone’s view has it errors because every man seems to be right in his own eyes (scriptures)

And one thing that really baffles me is the way you throw insults @ people especially when they see it differently. Hmmmm whatever!
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by aletheia(m): 12:17pm On Jun 07, 2010
Christian doctrine can be defined as any instruction or teaching that is explicitly taught in Scripture or that
which finds support from valid implications and applications of Scripture. Doctrine assists us in understanding God
and instructs us as to how we are to live pleasing to Him and with others. In other words Christian doctrine can
either be:

a. Explicit – precisely and clearly expressed, with ready observation, appealing to the immediate faculties and
cognition; not being left up to esoteric or mystical understanding. i.e. The Bible makes it very clear that the
world is not the result of a cosmic bang and that God Himself created the heavens and earth.

b. Implicit – that which is implied or expressed with reservation; that which is logically apparent or inherent in
the nature of something. i.e. the word Trinity (a noun) is not in the Bible, however it is a term that is used to
solidify a concept undeniably expressed numerous times in the Scripture. Through the careful analysis and synthesis of Bible passages, we can find indisputable support for the Trinity.

People often get confused as to what constitutes as Christian doctrine, however there are a few things we can note to assist us in understanding what Christian doctrine is and what is not:

1. A singular instance or infrequent occurrence of something in the Bible does not automatically make it a doctrine

2. A doctrine is universally binding and authoritative and it would be a sin to disobey it

3. Special considerations must be given when exegeting particular Bible passages such as poetry, historical
narratives, prophecy and the use of literary devices such as repetition and allegory. It is always necessary to
understand the author’s original intention of a particular passage and it first audience. There cannot be multiple
meanings to Scripture – this is confusion

4. It is incumbent upon Christians that they hold to a non-arbitrary system of hermeneutics when reading the
Scriptures by reading Bible passages in their proper, historical, grammatical and theological context

5. A doctrine is a tenet of Christianity that assists in giving it its distinction among the rest of the world’s
religions and belief systems

6. True Christian doctrine does not come from extra-biblical sources, such as dreams, epiphanies and other claimed
spiritual experiences. The Bible is always the final authority for what instructs and defines Christian doctrine

7. Doctrine is a means by which God gives grace to the hearers and by which He has chosen to accurately reveal
specific facets of His character

8. Christianity has a history that is thousands of years old and anything that claims to be Christian doctrine must
be aligned with what has been accepted as Christian doctrine throughout the centuries from to time of Christ till
now. After the death of the last Apostle, there have been no more binding commands for Christians to live by

9. Something doesn’t become a doctrine because a person thinks it would make a good command to follow. Christian doctrine does not come from arbitrary sources

10. A doctrine must not contradict other doctrines. Singular passages of Scripture should be compared with other
passages that are of the same topic; the whole counsel of the Scriptures must be considered when and not bits and pieces of it.

In summary, understanding what Christian doctrine is will help us in understanding what it is not. God’s
commandments are not grievous (1 John 5:2-3) He has given them to us with our best interest in mind. The Bible is
filled with not just restrictions but liberties; we do well in staying in line with God’s word once what we do, does
not trespass His law nor cause others to stumble in the faith.
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 2:01pm On Jun 07, 2010
@tonye-tithes
Given the "epistle" you just wrote on what sound christian doctrine should and also how to distinguish it from false doctrines, I am at a loss as to why you openly and greedily accept the heretic and non-biblical version of tithes being used by the clergy today to fleece the gullible. Your post smirks of high level hypocrisy.
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by Tonyet1(m): 3:27pm On Jun 07, 2010
^^^beautiful as u may sound there yet it wont take even a kid to deduce you just ended childish. . . same O G.

The problem is that some folks just talk before reasoning and yet when they discover their mistakes, pride and undue ego wont let them own up to their mistakes. That said:

Dude, go back and understand the difference btw DOCTRINE and ORDINANCE. Tithe is not a doctrine, its an orderand guess what this man is willing to take it to insumountables. do you understand?
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by Joagbaje(m): 3:28pm On Jun 07, 2010
nuclearboy:

^^^ I wonder why you are displaying teeth. Even on the web, your breath stinks, your teeth are brownish and stained with the blood you suck from your mugus.

All over NL, multiple posts from multiple posters have spoken of the intimacy caliber of your members! You want to tell me you've not read them? In my own capacity, I have a staff who attends your church - whist not a professional peddler, her conduct is scary. Imagine a young woman being picked up from work (and/or visited) by over 20 cars weekly. She's always declaring fast food joint surpluses for the young guys. I watched her closely in the past cos I feared she might have learnt the "lawrence Agaba" gambit so I know. When her fellow "choir" members visit, I fear for my "guys" safety. The conversation is "deadly!
Want to hear more?
To hear more? No thanks! We are not like you . Our ears are annointed for good news. I am not aware of your multiple post on CEC members. Base men read such things. It is not in the habit of successful people . That is why you have so much corrupt maggots you vomit in all your posts Because your inward part is full of junks! You are bitter and frustrated by the success of others but there's nothing you can do about it. Critics never make a head way.

This hunger for nagative reports of yours is killing you . Your post don't edify anybody. Na so so vile words . Which Kin Christian you be ?

Matthew 12:34-36
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.


Were you in student union in school politics?  Aluta ! Aluta!!! Chants . Abeg , christ has given us rest.
There is something the bible call Fruits Of the spirits. Study on it and produce it . You will be a better person.
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 3:42pm On Jun 07, 2010
@tonye-tithes
So how come even though your so called ordinances were never directed to christians, you fill comfortable with the clergy twisting it and applying it ilegally to christianity. What could be more heretic than that ?
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by Tonyet1(m): 3:48pm On Jun 07, 2010
aletheia:
Christian doctrine can be defined as any instruction or teaching that is explicitly taught in Scripture or that
which finds support from valid implications and applications of Scripture. Doctrine assists us in understanding God
and instructs us as to how we are to live pleasing to Him and with others
. In other words Christian doctrine can
either be:

le-errenus!le-errenus!!le-errenus!!! the priest screameth

Oh! chosen one of the most High God from amongst thy brethren why screamest thou?

quiet he remaineth, suddenly he said - The true God cannot be understood nor fathomed by the/through the doctrines of men.

They looked alased, and then asketh them why to him? he said unto them because God weareth no garment, eateth no food, neither doest he puts on a male pant nor females'.

God is not understood by doctrines, for they are nothing but the traditions of men coined in to a culture a people. How daresth thou man to coin God to be doctrine, for when they say LOVE IS A DOCTRINE, then they said GOD IS A DOCTRINE. le-errenus, he screamed again.

*did i also tell you that doctrine even believe that God is a male in likeness.nonsense
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by Tonyet1(m): 3:55pm On Jun 07, 2010
KunleOshob:

@tonye-tithes
So how come even though your so called ordinances were never directed to christians, you fill comfortable with the clergy twisting it and applying it ilegally to christianity. What could be more heretic than that ?

ALL scriptures including Matthew 23:23 are given by God and are profitable for instruction, learning. . . in righteousness.

I read Matthew 23:23 and choose to serve the Most High with that, is there a problem with that. And maybe you've forgetten the passage and its lesson, then let Tonye quote it for you in my fondly generosity. wink


Matt.23:23 - Jesus said unto them - practise mercy, practise justice, practise faithfulness and i say also DO NOT NEGLECT TO PRACTISE TITHE. smiley
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 4:12pm On Jun 07, 2010
@tonye-tithes
And is the tithing being preached and promoted In our churches today the same as the tithe of "mint and cummin" which was spoken of in that passage? That is apart from the fact that it was directed to those under the law as opposed to us christians who are under grace? Can you honestly say as a christian that scriptures have not been twisted and abused to arrive at the type of unscriptural tithing being preached in churches today? Is it not heretic to twist scriptures?
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by Tonyet1(m): 5:08pm On Jun 07, 2010
Respective of the fact that Tithe and its practise is not a law. let me for once slightly agree that tithing is a law. Now the question is: IS THE LAW AN EVIL THING. for the same Paul you seem to base your argument about his teachings and/vs. the law has this to say:

1 Timothy 1:8 -
we know that the law is good if anyone uses it well

Meaning should anyone choose to pay tithe based on mints and cummins, it is good so long as it is done accrding to scriptures. Kunle i really find it so hard to understand why you feel so hardened and biaise about the God's word despite its transparency and simplicity. If the eye of a man is single his whole body will be full of light (scriptures). lets say 'urs is yet to be single with the cramps you feed yourself daily with in NL religious section from 1st class psychologist and unbelieving intellects.
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by MadMax1(f): 5:41pm On Jun 07, 2010
Lol, tonye, that is the most hilarious 'biblical justification' of tithing I've ever come across, and I've seen some hooters. Like 'It may not have applied to gentiles, but you should tithe because you're a spiritual Jew". And from which bible translation did you get that self-serving Mathew 23:23? Better repair yourself to an excellent, original translation. If you want to be bound by antiquated Jewish customs about farm produce that have nothing to do with you, it's your privilege. Hopefully, you'll agree the rest of us is not obliged to follow suit.

Churches profiting from an ancient Jewish custom even the Jews no longer practice! Some indoctrinated Nigerians are genuinely ignorant of the uselessness of tithing. I'm not saying you're in the group, but people who produce these sort of arguments are often those profiting from the practice, and not those being unfairly deceived and robbed by it.

If you corner these pastors and you're not a member of their church, some of them might tell you why they do it. They'll tell you a church needs money, but people are stingy and won't give. As pastors they can't be expected to go begging church members every single time they need money for church projects and 'visions God showed me'.  Tithing church members brings a steady flow of funds into the Pastor's pockets.

To those who deceive others with 'tithing' to rob them, they should keep it up. Balance is written in the ways of the world. You reap what you sow. They will sow the wind, and reap the whirlwind.
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by Tonyet1(m): 5:57pm On Jun 07, 2010
Mad_Max:

Just beautiful.

Feel free to believe what you want.

We might discuss divergent views, but we can't impose our beliefs on others as 'the truth'.

May your quote be the balance factor my friend wink wink
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by MadMax1(f): 6:04pm On Jun 07, 2010
Mad_Max:

If you want to be bound by antiquated Jewish customs about farm produce that have nothing to do with you, it's your privilege. Hopefully, you'll agree the rest of us is not obliged to follow suit.

Balance that. tongue
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by Tonyet1(m): 6:21pm On Jun 07, 2010
^^^

1. Bound by Jewish customs? yes, so long as it is within the confines of my allegiance.

2. About Farm produce? yes, if my faith (inner witness) obliges to follow that accord, if no, still ok? as long as the origin has its descent as an act of giving one tenth of ALL (not just farm produce)

3. My privilege? yes, meybe i choose to found a doctrine in that ordinance and the other doesnt

4. My feelings if the rest are not obliged to follow suit? indifferent. Maybe they choose not to found a doctrine in that ordinance

       Just when did Tithing begun with the law that it should be reckoned with the law?
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by nuclearboy(m): 6:31pm On Jun 07, 2010
@Joagbaje and Tonye-t:

Balance this -

The [1] lies against God [2] lies against man [3] manipulation of God's Word to control Men

versus

[1] Abuse of you [2] impatience with your vacuous postulations [3] refusal to conform to your fake gospel

The first is applicable to you and the second to me. Whist I concur that I could be more easy about it, you have taken licence to go haywire in your efforts yet wish me easy. In effect, whist you are uncontrollable, you would insist I be muzzled. Fie!

Joagbaje:

your anointing comes from your father rabbi master teacher "chris" and its purpose is that you become as adept in lying, stealing and manipulating as he is. God would use you but you refuse His Spirit expression in you and cry "wolf" when truth confronts you. tongue
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by MadMax1(f): 1:34am On Jun 08, 2010
Tonye-t:

^^^

1. Bound by Jewish customs? yes, so long as it is within the confines of my allegiance.

2. About Farm produce? yes, if my faith (inner witness) obliges to follow that accord, if no, still ok? as long as the origin has its descent as an act of giving one tenth of ALL (not just farm produce)

3. My privilege? yes, meybe i choose to found a doctrine in that ordinance and the other doesnt

4. My feelings if the rest are not obliged to follow suit? indifferent. Maybe they choose not to found a doctrine in that ordinance

       Just when did Tithing begun with the law that it should be reckoned with the law?

But seriously, my dear, you know each of us is entitled to his beliefs. But only to the extent those beliefs don't translate into actions that harm others. When Moslems attack and kill Christians and vice versa, we don't look away and say they're entitled to their beliefs. Likewise if religion is used to rob a man, we don't say he's entitled to being deceived and robbed. You're free to tithe even if you know better, but not to harm others with a belief that has no grounding in reality.
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by DeepSight(m): 11:51am On Jun 08, 2010
^^^ I don't believe its possible for you to claim that people are "harmed" by the tithing scam: for the simple reason that its a free independent choice for everybody to make.

If a man allows himself to be fleeced by a tithe-mongering-pastor, that is his kettle of fish: he remains the mugu - and he certainly has a right to be a mugu as far as his religion is concerned.

We are all mugus for one thing or the other, afterall.

I just personally hate the idea of compulsory contributions (which anyway end up being used to purchase private jets).

I see no reason why giving to the poor and needy is not an equal or even superior fashion of giving to God.
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by nuclearboy(m): 1:46pm On Jun 08, 2010
@DeepSight:

Way I see it, harm does not have to be physical or even physiological initially. There is the mental torture involved in "hoping" that a miracle will appear because you've been brain-washed into believing the more you give and are "faithful" with tithes, the closer you are to financial glorification. Rather than build wealth the old fashioned time tested way (hard work, perseverance and "luck"wink, these people start to hope against reason and that is why we get the "Lawrence Agada's" of this world who would steal 39 Million yet not use a dime for themselves but rather take all to "church". He wanted something in return and it definitely was not the jail cell where he writes his memoirs today.

That man kept hoping, praying, claiming and probably expecting an angel would come down to "refund" his "labor of love" and "obedience". It is a peculiar delusion that many of us have also faced and so we know the "harm" it does. Consider that by the time many come out of it, they're either financially or emotionally wrecked. To a Christian, the worst part of it all is that Christianity turns into scam in the victims pysche and these cannot separate the wheat from the chaff so believe all are criminal. However, where there is no 400 Naira note, there cannot be a fake 400 Naira note.

It is harmful! The freedom of choice you believe exists shouldn't come from someone who has studied eastern religions - you know what a mantra does over a period of time, don't you? Just as ou didn't become a lawyer in a day, no-one becomes mugu in same. What they are fed gradually erode their ability to think for self and fight wrong teachings
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by MadMax1(f): 1:51pm On Jun 08, 2010
What you believe is possible or not is your own affair, dear. As is your bizarre definition of what a choice constitutes. A person is scammed because he knows no better. If he knows he's being ripped off, and then allows it, it's different. If he's offered an alternative to consider, considers it and then makes his choice, that's a different matter too, because he now has a choice. Choice enters into it only when there are alternatives to choose between. Not when the only thing there is, is being conned.
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by nuclearboy(m): 2:03pm On Jun 08, 2010
I believe Mad_Max is referring to DeepSight with the above, right?

And its true - these people are programmed to believe only in the pastor's words. To help set them off on that path, commentaries are written on the Bible and sold to the congregation. These have multiple scripture verses sprinkled in them to give the impression that you are studying the Bible. However, a more fleshy interpretation is then interspersed within the scripture. That "diluting" is all thats neccessary to turn right into "error". I remember being told when I "manipulated" truth as a high school kid by my mum that I was acting like the devil. She said he takes 90% truth and adds just 10% error. The Bible supports this when it says "Dead flies spoil the perfumers ointment and a little folly destroys much wisdom"

Because people like to "feel among", the leaders then turn all into a "us VERSUS them" thing making themselves out to be victims of "ungodly" people. Well presented and planned, acolytes would fight to death against anything contrary to such views/doctrines. The most common manner of recognising these is the "leader" who is quiet and doesn't defend himself but with followers ready to support the most bizarre issues concerning such. Fanaticism then sets in as is required with error at which time, reprobacy is in view.
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by MadMax1(f): 2:16pm On Jun 08, 2010
I vas talking to meester Deep Sight, ja, ja.
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 2:43pm On Jun 08, 2010
@deepsight
I don't believe you could make those comments, tithing remains one of the most dangerous and harmful heresies in christianity as the teaching and practise of it runs contrary to the spirit and the letters of the gospel of christ, it is turning christians into greedy and selfish mamon worshippers that Jesus warned us against. It is also making christians neglect their obligations to help the needy cos they feel they have fufilled all righteousness by paying the so called tithe. I am sure you read the thread on "paying tithe or assisting a sick friend" did you see how some so called christians state that they would rather pay tithe than carry out the instruction of Jesus to help those in need around us. Besides the spirit behind the preaching of tithes as commercialized the church and turned it into a den of thieves and robbers. We all remember how angry Jesus got when these same scammers commercialized the temple in Jerusalem. Tithing is surely one of the most harmful heresies of mordern day christianity.
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by DeepSight(m): 3:31pm On Jun 08, 2010
@ Nuclearboy, Mad_Max, KunleOshob -

I emphaticaly disagree. You make it appear as though the persons being fleeced are incapable of reading the bible.

You also make it appear as though those persons are incapable of quiet introspection.

These people have access to Bibles and can study the scripture if they choose to do so. Indeed I do not know what gives them the right to imagine themselves members of Christendom if they do not personally study the scriptures. The scriptures are clear that every word ministered to them should be subjected to personal study and introspection. If these people cannot read the scripture and free themselves from the lies being sold to them, then i verily submit that that is EXACTLY what they deserve. It is ridiculous to claim that people cannot reason for themselves: or that once a Pastor repeats something often enough, people should be excused for gobbling it up without personal reflection.

Entirely aside from the Bible and Religion, it is the sacred responsibility of every human being to reflect closely on his life, his purposes, his essence and the context and meaning of his existence - and no person can be excused for failing to do this. If any person has failed to do this and is spiritually lazy enough to allow himself to become the slave of some Pastor that is entirely his fault; the karma will rest squarely with him: and it will not avail him to point to the snake or to Eve in a plaintive plea aimed at avoiding responsibility. We are each responsible for ourselves and our spirituality.

The plain truth is that many of these people are driven by their own greed and nothing else. I have painfully explained to many that a gift given with the hope and intention of procuring a reward is spiritually empty. If these people are not able to appreciate this fact then the nasty truth is that they are and remain who they are: and are fully culpable for the evil visited on them by the rogue-pastor.
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by JeSoul(f): 3:38pm On Jun 08, 2010
Deep Sight:

@ Nuclearboy, Mad_Max, KunleOshob -

I emphaticaly disagree. You make it appear as though the persons being fleeced are incapable of reading the bible.

You also make it appear as though those persons are incapable of quiet introspection.

These people have access to Bibles and can study the scripture if they choose to do so. Indeed I do not know what gives them the right to imagine themselves members of Christendom if they do not personally study the scriptures. The scriptures are clear that every word ministered to them should be subjected to personal study and introspection. If these people cannot read the scripture and free themselves from the lies being sold to them, then i verily submit that that is EXACTLY what they deserve. It is ridiculous to claim that people cannot reason for themselves: or that once a Pastor repeats something often enough, people should be excused for gobbling it up without personal reflection.

Entirely aside from the Bible and Religion, it is the sacred responsibility of every human being to reflect closely on his life, his purposes, his essence and the context and meaning of his existence - and no person can be excused for failing to do this. If any person has failed to do this and is spiritually lazy enough to allow himself to become the slave of some Pastor that is entirely his fault; the karma will rest squarely with him: and it will not avail him to point to the snake or to Eve in a plaintive plea aimed at avoiding responsibility. We are each responsible for ourselves and our spirituality.

The plain truth is that many of these people are driven by their own greed and nothing else. I have painfully explained to many that a gift given with the hope and intention of procuring a reward is spiritually empty. If these people are not able to appreciate this fact then the nasty truth is that they are and remain who they are: and are fully culpable for the evil visited on them by the rogue-pastor.
  ^Well said Deepsight. I believe Jesus spoke to this situation: Matthew 15:14 ". . . they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

The deceiver and the one who allowed themselves to be deceived, are both guilty of error and will both answer to God.
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by MadMax1(f): 5:05pm On Jun 08, 2010
Deep Sight:

@ Nuclearboy, Mad_Max, KunleOshob -

I emphaticaly disagree. You make it appear as though the persons being fleeced are incapable of reading the bible.

You also make it appear as though those persons are incapable of quiet introspection.

These people have access to Bibles and can study the scripture if they choose to do so. Indeed I do not know what gives them the right to imagine themselves members of Christendom if they do not personally study the scriptures. The scriptures are clear that every word ministered to them should be subjected to personal study and introspection. If these people cannot read the scripture and free themselves from the lies being sold to them, then i verily submit that that is EXACTLY what they deserve. It is ridiculous to claim that people cannot reason for themselves: or that once a Pastor repeats something often enough, people should be excused for gobbling it up without personal reflection.

Entirely aside from the Bible and Religion, it is the sacred responsibility of every human being to reflect closely on his life, his purposes, his essence and the context and meaning of his existence - and no person can be excused for failing to do this. If any person has failed to do this and is spiritually lazy enough to allow himself to become the slave of some Pastor that is entirely his fault; the karma will rest squarely with him: and it will not avail him to point to the snake or to Eve in a plaintive plea aimed at avoiding responsibility. We are each responsible for ourselves and our spirituality.

The plain truth is that many of these people are driven by their own greed and nothing else. I have painfully explained to many that a gift given with the hope and intention of procuring a reward is spiritually empty. If these people are not able to appreciate this fact then the nasty truth is that they are and remain who they are: and are fully culpable for the evil visited on them by the rogue-pastor.

I understand your sentiments. But it smacks a little of the pride that comes from a high vantage point, deep sight. You are free (like you got there by yourself and there wasn't a time you too didn't have a clue and were spiritually bankrupt). Everyone else may sink or swim. If they don't get your message, too bad. Or maybe it's not that, but exasperation when you're trying to tell them these things and they don't listen?

You're saying something subtle and deep here too. Something all of us would do well to think about. The self-interest at the heart of the booming tithing business. The fantastic idea that God must be bribed to 'bless' you. You pay this bribe to 'secure' good things for yourself. It's this self-interest these 'Men of God' are exploiting. It's a little like those who put themselves through all manner of physical torment when they want something from God, like God doesn't want them to have anything that's good for them, so they must do all sort of super-spiritual things to overcome His resistance. Why do we assume and project so much of ourselves on Him? You're so right about this.

But DS, you know no matter how much someone you love exasperates you, you're not going to passively fold your hands and let them be hurt. Self-interest is part and parcel of human nature. We can't help ourselves. There are so many voices telling us different things, and it's easy for us to be confused. We tend to give our trust too easily to anyone who calls himself a 'man of God'. Trust must be earned. These so-called Pastors may pretend they have a special hotline to God, but they're just as human and clueless as the rest of us. It's terrible to take advantage of the trust that's been placed in you, abusing your 'office' to rob others.

Be wearied or exasperated, DS. You're only human. But don't stop doing what you've been doing.
Re: Heretic teachings e.g. "I Am Christ" - Their Effects in Society/Christianity by MyJoe: 6:02pm On Jun 08, 2010
JeSoul:

  ^Well said Deepsight. I believe Jesus spoke to this situation: Matthew 15:14 ". . . they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

The deceiver and the one who allowed themselves to be deceived, are both guilty of error and will both answer to God.
I would be more circumspect about blaming the victim, JeSoul. What we have here is a sighted man extending a hand to a blind man and then using his vantage position to to lead that one into a lion's pit.

Deep Sight:

@ Nuclearboy, Mad_Max, KunleOshob -

I emphaticaly disagree. You make it appear as though the persons being fleeced are incapable of reading the bible.
There are people who are incapable of reading the Bible.

Deep Sight:
You also make it appear as though those persons are incapable of quiet introspection.
Well, not everyone is capable of quiet introspection, either.

Deep Sight:
These people have access to Bibles and can study the scripture if they choose to do so. Indeed I do not know what gives them the right to imagine themselves members of Christendom if they do not personally study the scriptures. The scriptures are clear that every word ministered to them should be subjected to personal study and introspection. If these people cannot read the scripture and free themselves from the lies being sold to them, then i verily submit that that is EXACTLY what they deserve. It is ridiculous to claim that people cannot reason for themselves: or that once a Pastor repeats something often enough, people should be excused for gobbling it up without personal reflection.

I understand your sentiments about people with herd mentality, but I think you need to reflect more on the nature of religion itself, the manner in which religious tenets are received, and the human mind. The human mind I am not smart enough to comprehend satisfactorily, but something is known of the first two. Religion is something you follow dogmatically – you don’t question it. That is the nature of religion. When people accept a system of worship, that is, a religion, they trust their lives to God and his “appointed servant”. This automatically creates a relationship based on trust between the “appointed servant” and the follower. This is why even the most intelligent people and people with Ph.D. fall for religious scam. The follower trusts the appointed servant relay the message from God correctly. If the “appointed servant” takes advantage of this position to deceive, I believe he should be held accountable for it.

The perpetrators of religious fraud are a determined lot. They know what they want and how to go about it. Folks stand no chance! Not only are they schooled in the art of deception, but they have access to the means of spreading their poisonous message. Let’s look at some of their methods. They take over the media and spurn stories of how people pay tithe and reap billions. Now, if they stop there you can blame your average Christian for lusting after lucre and thereby falling for the tithing scam. But they don’t! They go on to reel out stories of people who did not pay and had their warehouses razed by fire, came down with mysterious diseases, had their children expelled from school and generally declined. [/i]In other words, God gets positively angry and punishes you if you don’t pay your tithe.

It’s not about not reading their Bibles. I have been there. You read one verse, then listen to copious amounts of tape or read volumes written by the “servant” on that verse. He tells you what it says and gives you stories to back up his explanation. When verses contravening the doctrine are seen, they are glossed over.  Most people who attend tithing churches pay tithes. I had a Catholic friend who tithes regularly, having swallowed the message from the tithing wing of Christendom.

A potential recruit, you hear the message and realise your life has been full of problems all along and you wonder if it is because you have not found the secret which is now being revealed. You “give your life” and start paying tithe! Here is Justice Oyewole in his verdict on the infamous Rev King: [i]“The Nigerian society is already bogged down with myriads of problems ranging from poverty to corruption which has rendered many of its vulnerable elements susceptible to the wares of religious highway men such as the accused person here, who offered them stone for bread and scorpion when they demand for fish.”


The only person that is safe from the salesman of tainted spiritual goods is he that does not buy. Once you buy there is usually no room for selective consumption. The question of why people buy, I think, cannot be satisfactorily answered by anyone. What brings a man to accept a faith appears to be like what brings a man and a woman to together, keeps them together and tears them apart – it is unknown.

Religious deceivers will bear a heavy judgement.

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