toba:

Emeka i can see the similarity&agree with u 100%
a yoruba muslim will say asutani=esu, the yb christian will say satani=esu.
I prayed a prayer today 'olorun yami ya esu' i.e God should separate me from esu/satan.
As a yoruba man, i dont see any good esu have done for me&my generation.As long as God lives i will never have any pact with esu/satan

Jenwitemi:

What sort of dumb questions are these? What good has Esu done for Yorubas? What good has foreign deities done for yorubas, or the entire Nigeria as a nation for that matter? Are we living, as Nigerians, in a nation that can be compared with Utopia or paradise? What has imported religions like christianity and islam done for us, apart from making us hate each other and go as far as kill each other? And that is just a tiny part of the negativities we have inherited from these imported religions.

So because the igbos call satan, ekwensu, should mean that the yorubas should do the same, and that should make Esu and Ekwensu similar? Are igbos and yorubas the same folk? Where is your thinking faculty, mr. aloy emeka?

Tudór:

Its as if your brain is not working?

A yoruba man says satan = esu, so what?

The question youu should ask is when did the term 'esu' come into yoruba language, was it before or after christianity came and if it was before, what did it mean then?

Rather than intelligently looking at the issue by analyzing what 'ESU' meant in yoruba culture before christianity and comparing it with the 'satan' concept of the jews like a sane man will do to justify if the two concepts relate at all, you're busy ranting 'a yoruba man will say esu= satan, muslim say asutani and bla bla'.
That people use a concept does that automatically make it right?

Geez what a braindead fool.

toba:

U this guy called tudor,its as u re under a spell to insult people in order to express your self proper.
See your life. U are here ranting&making a case for esu as not being satan,yet u dont believe in the existence of either,not to talk of God no?
Its a matter of belief. Some will refer to God as a seen object eg cow, while others will say,hes an unseen being. Whatever u like pick&how my choice/affects your life personally i dont know.U chose not to believe a God,thats your choice&others have contrary view.So let it be. Esu=satan.   

toba:

U this guy called tudor,its as u re under a spell to insult people in order to express your self proper.
See your life. U are here ranting&making a case for esu as not being satan,yet u dont believe in the existence of either,not to talk of God no?

Its a matter of belief. Some will refer to God as a seen object eg cow, while others will say,hes an unseen being. Whatever u like pick&how my choice/affects your life personally i dont know.U chose not to believe a God,thats your choice&others have contrary view.So let it be. Esu=satan.   

Tudór:

Its as if your brain is not working?

A yoruba man says satan = esu, so what?

The question youu should ask is when did the term 'esu' come into yoruba language, was it before or after christianity came and if it was before, what did it mean then?

Rather than intelligently looking at the issue by analyzing what 'ESU' meant in yoruba culture before christianity and comparing it with the 'satan' concept of the jews like a sane man will do to justify if the two concepts relate at all, you're busy ranting 'a yoruba man will say esu= satan, muslim say asutani and bla bla'.
That people use a concept does that automatically make it right?

Geez what a braindead fool.

Aloy+Emeka:

It seems you are more interested in insults rather than checking the facts. I am good at insults upon abuses too so don't go there.

Why not look at the similarities between Igbo and Yoruba language to draw your analogy.

Yoruba on the left, igbo on the right:

Akuko = fowl = okuko

Akute = stone = okwute

anyi = elephant = enyi

Esu = satan= ekwensu

So, denying that Esu is not satan may be erroneous. In the Yoruba mythology, is Esu the evil character or way maker?

Tudór:

How has this empty barrel rant addressed issues?

Do I need to believe in Esu before I know what the concept means in my culture? Were you born daft or wat?Mr man, this thread is NOT about belief in god or non belief so stop blabbing off point.

Esu translates as satan is a matter of belief? Soon you'll say rat translates as ekute is a matter of belief. . dont tell me you dont see how pathetically stoopid your posts are.

toba:

Say whatever u like, thats your problem&personal challenge&how my choice  affects u,i still dont know.
esu is satan thats its.
If u not satisfied with my conclusion u may hang yourself. I ve the right not to believe in any cultural dictate,that add no meaning to me.
U are a pathetic&complicated guy&u cant be taken seriously.Scarcely will u make any post with adding insult to butress your riduculous point. How long will this nuissance act of yours last? Just because i refuse to accept your so called culture, you degenerated to such a low level? Very pathetic

Tudór:

*BIG FAT YAWN*

so why dont you keep your daft opinions to yourself instead of coming here to challenge  intelligent people who are here to discuss the etymology of the word esu.

You came here claiming Jentwemi was talking ''nonsense'' feeling smart with yourself YET you cannot in any way refute his claims intelligently. Isnt it obvious you are way out of your league when all you can say to butress your point is ''Esu = satan''? Then when asked to defend it you claim its your ''choice''. Are you a fool?
We deal with facts here not ''choices''. Keep your damn ''choices'' to yourself!

You are free to invent your own culture and belief BUT We are talking about the yoruba culture and mythology here and  if you're going to barge and start running your mouth anyhow we are gonna need facts and valid points not rubbish you invented in your head.

Jeez, What an illiterate slowpoke.

What Really is Esu?
by Ebun-Oluwa Kumuyi

Due to Christian syncretism in Nigeria, the Deity or Orisa Esu has become synonymous with the Christian devil. There are many different reasons why and how this came to be so. Let us examine those reasons, and allow us to come to a better understanding of Olorun's messenger, aka Esu!

Esu has many different personalities and can do many things, as most Orisa. He is most popularly known as the trickster, the guarder of the crossroads, the gatekeeper of Heaven, the choice giver and justice maker. The latter task, in my scholarly opinion, is the main reason why the European decided to mask Esu as the "bad one."

In naming Esu as the trickster, let us refer to Odù Iwori-Ofun which says:

Owon so ibi di ire agba lo da'fa fun ogejan, elegbe Ifá. Owon so ibi di ire on li o da inu aye on li o ko gbogbo ire wa inu aye, oran ti ko ba dara ehin ni da si. Nigbati Esu gbo pe awon ore meji so pe awon ko ni ja lai-lai nigbana ni Esu lo da fila aliawo apa kan fun-fun, apa kan si dudu; o si lo koja larin awon meji ore, o si da ija sile larin awon.

This verse tells the story of two best friends who visited a Babalawo for a consultation. It was told by Olodumare through Ifá to the Babalawo that the friends needed to make a sacrifice in order to preserve their friendship. They had enough faith in their relationship that they refused to perform the sacrifice. Esu heard of this, and decided to put on a hat that was half white and half black and walked past the friends where one stood on the right, and the other at Esu's left. They both commented on the same man, but argued over the color of his hat; one seeing only the white side, and the other seeing only the black. It turns out that through this disagreement their friendship ended. Had they performed the prescribed sacrifice to God, they would have died best friends instead of having lived as enemies.

This is an example of Esu being the trickster, as well as him being a dealer of justice. Not performing a sacrifice is a slight to God, a suggestion that you have more power than He to control your own destiny and deny His advise. Neither God, Orunmila nor Esu appreciate this type of arrogant behaviour. When this happens, humans are punished. Esu's role as the "punisher" is what lead the Europeans to convince our own people that God's messenger is really the devil!

Let us now compare Esu and the devil according to the Bible and verses of Ifá. The Bible says that the devil was cast out of Heaven for competing with God. This is not true of Esu, nor is there any historical/ mythical evidence through Yoruba text to back this assertion. The devil makes his home in hell-fire and is the antithesis of anything Heavenly. Esu resides between Heaven and Earth, serving as God's messenger to man and carrying sacrifices from Earth to Heaven. He is also the gatekeeper of Heaven, which the devil certainly is not! Esu does not wait for humans to die so that he may carry them off to hell. Esu does not encourage evil, nor is he the father of evil. These are attributes of the Christian devil that are non-existent in traditional Yoruba culture.

Many times Esu will force us to look at the ugliness within ourselves so that we may see who we are in true light, recognise the wrong and change it so that we are better able to please God. It is Esu that makes us remember: S'otito, s'ododo, ma s'ika - Orisa gbe iwa pele O! This basically means to do good, and perform well without doing harm - the Orisa support good character!

This is not to say that the Yoruba are naive enough to have a disbelief in evil and evil forces. That would be foolish - especially of a culture that strongly believes in a balance of nature. Where there exists good, there must also exist evil and our ancestors understood this clearly. It has been misunderstood, however, that Esu is the master of this evil when in fact he is not. The Yoruba do have a belief in evil forces that parade around during the dark hours and cause harm to humans and nature. These forces work with those with iwa buruku (bad character) and help them achieve evil goals on earth; it should be noted that those forces are not Orisa. It is strongly believed that Olodumare ni idajo - meaning that God is the owner of ALL judgement. Those who intentionally perform evil acts on Earth will eventually be judged by God and will have to answer for their acts. May the blessings of God be upon you forever and always, Ase!
Reprinted with kind permission from Ebun- Oluwa Kumuyi, For more articles by this author, please visit Naija Mall. Copyright © Ebun-Oluwa Kumuyi 2000. All rights reserved.

Aloy+Emeka:

Since you are a true believer in Yoruba mythology, so you actually believe Oduduwa fell from heaven?

Tudór:

who cares if oduduwa fell from mars?

We are discussing what 'ESU' means in yoruba culture/mythology or did u miss that?

Tudór:

*BIG FAT YAWN*

so why dont you keep your daft opinions to yourself instead of coming here to challenge  intelligent people who are here to discuss the etymology of the word esu.

Tudór June 17, 2010, 01:22 PM ]
dont mind them, the mumus have been brainwashed [/b]with foreign religious ideologies.

Esu is Esu not satan.
[/quote]
I cant  understand how the so called intelligent person will call others mumu whilst trying to make a point

Tudór:

[b:
Its as if your brain is not working?

A yoruba man says satan = esu, so what?
Geez what a braindead fool.

See the 2nd post of an intelligent person

Tudór:

How has this empty barrel rant addressed issues?



dont tell me you dont see how pathetically stoopid your posts are.

Another post of mr intelligent tudor

[quote author=Tudór June 17, 2010, 01:22 PM ]
Jeez, What an illiterate slowpoke. Are you a fool?

Tudór June 17, 2010, 01:22 PM :

You came here claiming Jentwemi was talking ''nonsense'' feeling smart with yourself YET you cannot in any way refute his claims intelligently. Isnt it obvious you are way out of your league when all you can say to butress your point is ''Esu = satan''? Then when asked to defend it you claim its your ''choice''. Are you a fool?
We deal with facts here not ''choices''. Keep your damn ''choices'' to yourself!

Tudór June 17, 2010, 01:22 PM :

You are free to invent your own culture and belief BUT We are talking about the yoruba culture and mythology here and  if you're going to barge and start running your mouth anyhow we are gonna need facts and valid points not rubbish you invented in your head.

toba:

Since this is the path u like, i will follow suitI hope u don't count your self as an intelligent person, cos your posts speaks on the contrary. this is your first post on this thread
I cant  understand how the so called intelligent person will call others mumu whilst trying to make a point

See the 2nd post of an intelligent person
Another post of mr intelligent tudor

your posts on this thread are not that of an intelligent person but that of a slowpoke and a pathetic fool. 'Its takes one to know one'

U re very silly, my comment on this thread had nothing to do with culture. I expressed myself from a yoruba theistic view point, Which was why i said a yoruba muslim will say asutani= esu and the christian counterpart will say esu=satani. How it concerns culture i dont know

Stop shouting just yesterday night (sunday) OBA sikiru Adetona was speaking on Tv condemning most of the so called cultures of the yorubas that they are against development. And the yeye esu culture u re strongly speaking for is among what the league of southwest OBAs are trying to repel.


 

Pastor AIO:

I think that the way to go about this is for both parties to draw up 2 lists of attributes.

The list of attributes of Esu vis a vis the list of attributes of Satan. And then we'll see how many similarities or dissimilarities there are between them.

Pastor AIO:

I think that the way to go about this is for both parties to draw up 2 lists of attributes.

The list of attributes of Esu vis a vis the list of attributes of Satan. And then we'll see how many similarities or dissimilarities there are between them.

Tudór:

An intelligent man is one who identifies a dolt and tells him straight to the face. That I call you a mumu is not me trying to insult you but just telling it the way it is.

Keep crying. . .fool

Have you ever thought ; Oh this Tudor keeps calling me a dunce, am I actually this stoopid?

Tudór:

If you really look inwards at yourself, the answer will befuddle you. You are a capital iidiot for this statement and a PURE Illiterate.

Tudór:

Yoruba ''theistic'' view? Do you even know what that means? In yoruba theism and divinity, what does 'ESU' stand for? Did yoruba theism ever have a character like satan of the jews?
Clue: read the article I pasted, slowpoke

[/quote]

Tudór:

Prove and Defend your claim that satan is Esu you start running around like headless chickens claiming its your ''choice'' and ''opinion''.
Again, we are talking about the MEANING OF ESU in yoruba culture/language/mythology. Stick to the topic dimwit.

Keep quite guy u are not the author of this thread neither will i take instructions from whatever nonsense u trying to prove inhere

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=464089.msg6254205#msg6254205 date=1277116350]
This thread is to discuss what 'ESU' meant to our forefathers and find out through fact based discussions if it has anything to do with the 'satan' of the judeo christian faiths.

If you have nothing intelligent to say other than the half-wit ''satan = Esu'' I suggest you take a hike.

Pastor AIO:

I think that the way to go about this is for both parties to draw up 2 lists of attributes.

The list of attributes of Esu vis a vis the list of attributes of Satan. And then we'll see how many similarities or dissimilarities there are between them.

toba:

The same way u feel about others is exactly how u tudor is being perceived by others. If U are intelligent u don't to degenerate to low level of insult and call others such as these Geez what a braindead fool. daft

And so u are as well mr miss tudor
I dont need to read a copied article of which u aren't the author

I gave my view based of 'theistic' aspect by which i mean 'as a theist what esu is to a Yoruba Muslim or a Christian theist.

Keep quite guy u are not the author of this thread neither will i take instructions from whatever nonsense u trying to prove inhere

How is it your challenge if i choose to discuss Esu without a recourse to any tradition?

toba:

U re right pastor on the need to establish the attributes of both

Esu and satan some similarities.

Esu part of esu's attributes is to wrath evil, satan does likewise. More to come

Tudór:

No offense, calling YOU braindead isnt insult. . . Na TRUTH

like I said, you can keep crying. I myself will suggest you begin to educate yourselfQuite sad, coz if only you read at all to educate yourself your pathetic intellect will prolly not be where it is today.

Tudór:


What a shame.
oh, its no longer yoruba theism, se? I laugh

you gave NOTHING! All you did was state Esu = satan = asutani=bla ba. Thats just stoopid.

Tudór:


We await you to come tell us how Esu is the same as satan of the jews.
I seriously wonder what the rubbish above means Oh, really?
eMmm what is 'ESU' if not part of yoruba culture and tradition?

Tudór:


Mehn you gotta wonder at the amount of stupidity on display here. . .

So you are gonna discuss ESU without any ''recourse to tradition''.?

You might be a genius afterall. . .pls be we await your discussion. . . This should be fun!!!

Tudór:

GOOD. . . I'm glad we have gone past the Esu = satan QED rant. You are finally ready to discuss intelligently

toba:

IF the nuissance act and touting language u display on NL is what u call intelligence and education, i really pity your soul and that of those that have trained you.
your brain is dead thats why u spew rants and insults here and there.

Another example of retardation, In my post above, i gave an illustration of what i meant in my post above, yet a pathetic tout and rouge called tudor have refused to accept my point, What a same to your life

what type of Esu do people say is responsible for their evil deeds? u slowpoke
U see armed robbers cry on TV ise esu ni, esu lotimi si, Which esu are t6hey referring to?

How come u think i might be a genius after calling me all sorts of names? ITs either that u make your posts under cheap weed or u re unconscious whislt representing your self on line.

Go get a life

toba:

I ve always been willing to discuss intelligently like i always do.

To think i will discuss with an unintelligent fellow like u is very unlikely.

If AIO returns i will do that with him

Tudór:

Joke of the century. . . .So now, this is your excuse??

This is just laughable. . . Days before pastor AIO came you didnt say any smart thing all of a sudden u want us to believe you'll magically bring anything of substance to the discussion? Pssf!

Tudór:

keep crying. . . . You are NOT educated, its pretty obvious.

Tudór:

you made no point, dont kid yourself.
When asked to defend your position you ran and claimed it was your ''choice''. You are indeed dumb

Tudór:

so this is your ''analysis'' to show that Esu = Satan?? What armed robbers say on TV??

And you complain when I call you dimwit?

Tudór:

*BIG FAT YAWN*

any man who claims he can discuss/analyse 'ESU' without a ''recourse to tradition'' must be a genius. . . .

Tudór:

Like I said, we eagerly await the 'more' analysis that is to come from you. DONT RUN PLS

I certainly cant wait. . .

Tudór:

^^^
bTW, your half-witted excuse wont fly as usual. . . Pastor suggested a list of similarities and so on, the onus is on you to provide them and show that esu = satan.

We cant wait!! South Africa 2010!

Pastor AIO:

I think that the way to go about this is for both parties to draw up 2 lists of attributes.

The list of attributes of Esu vis a vis the list of attributes of Satan. And then we'll see how many similarities or dissimilarities there are between them.

toba:

OMG
What kind of a pathetic slowpoke are u. Where on this thread did Pastor AIO suggest any list of 'similarities and so on'? He said both parties should draw up¬ that he suggested any list of attributes to either of us.learn to be scrupulous

. . . .''pastor suggested a list of similatities and so on, the onus is on you to provide them and show that esu = satan''