johnydon22:
A fetus is a human. When I say someone, I am referring to a human. Not regarding a human as a human doesn't make such human any less human because "human" is not an arbitrary tag hinged on an subjective or intersubjective human belief. No. The term human defines an objective reality, a group of homo species.


And even to dance to this music of legal acceptance with you, do you realise that if you kill a pregnant woman, you are not charge with 1 murder but murder of 2 persons and this is specifically under law? So, you see the laws if I am dancing by your argument still recognizes a fetus as a person therefore somebody. Lol. I bet you didn't see that one coming.

I can also dance the law dance and show you where the fetus is not legally recognized as person.

LordReed:


I can also dance the law dance and show you where the fetus is not legally recognized as person.

Hahaha I knew you didn't see that one coming.

Let me make my argument abundantly clear in simple steps.

1. Personhood is a legal definition (at least as defined today)

2. Legality is arbitrary contingent on human belief on imagined order.

3. Human on the other is biological.

4. Therefore is a description of an objective biological reality.

5. Murder is percieved as morally wrong on the premise or belief on the sacredness of human life.

6. Therefore, human life on any stage it occurs is just as sacred by definition and therefore premediatated termination of this human life is morally wrong.

I am not dragging personhood with you. My argument is purely moral not legality.

I only played the legality game a little with you to show you it is ironic and funny and in fact somewhat contradictory.

And I also question legalities that deviate from the fundamental principles on which they are formed.

johnydon22:


Hahaha I knew you didn't see that one coming.

Let me make my argument abundantly clear in simple steps.

1. Personhood is a legal definition (at least as defined today)

2. Legality is arbitrary contingent on human belief on imagined order.

3. Human on the other is biological.

4. Therefore is a description of an objective biological reality.

5. Murder is percieved as morally wrong on the premise or belief on the sacredness of human life.

6. Therefore, human life on any stage it occurs is just as sacred by definition and therefore premediatated termination of this human life is morally wrong.

I am not dragging personhood with you. My argument is purely moral not legality.

I only played the legality game a little with you to show you it is ironic and funny and in fact somewhat contradictory.

And I also question legalities that deviate from the fundamental principles on which they are formed.

Then you should stop saying murder, its a legal term.

LordReed:


Then you should stop saying murder, its a legal term.

It is primarily moral.

johnydon22:
It is primarily moral.

No its not otherwise there be no need to distinguish it by defining it as unlawful.

toyosi20188:
I used to think these atheists were some sort of moral teachers or a bunch of Mahatma Gandhis. Imagine the ludicrous opinions. They accuse theists of hypocrisy meanwhile themselves are like whitewashed sepulchres with all filth within.

I want to guess you are referring to me. He claimed i havent had sex in a decade, how does that make me a hypocrite or whitewashed sepulchre?

Gladly anticipating your response

alfaman3:
op, I just read that you haven't had sex in more than a decade.

What is wrong with you?

I will gladly wish to know my offence

Michellekabod:

I want to guess you are referring to me. He claimed i havent had sex in a decade, how does that make me a hypocrite or whitewashed sepulchre?

Gladly anticipating your response

Nope. I wasn't referring to you. What alfaman3 said is none of my business, that is your personal life which, obviously, intruded into. I was just taking note of what the atheists(of which I suppose you are part of) said and was infuriated. I'm sorry if what I said sounded like I was intruding into your personal life.

[quote author=toyosi20188 post=74105870] Nope. I wasn't referring to you. What alfaman3 said is none of my business, that is your personal life which, obviously, intruded into. I was just taking note of what the atheists(of which I suppose you are part of) said and was infuriated. I'm sorry if what I said sounded like I was intruding into your personal life.


I am not an atheist; i stated it in my post. I am agnostic
.

HardMirror:
you are very right. Principles we live by are shaped by different factors. For some it is religion, for others it is from their culture, for some others it is self developed maybe through experiences or just because of our personality. It could also be a combination of several factors.

I would find it difficult if not impossible to about a child that is mine. Not because it is morally wrong for me but because it is subjectively wrong for me. In this case it is subjective because this choice is hinged on my perception that the child is mine and that it is human as much as i am.

On second thoughts, when does life really start? Can i also say my sperms are babies and when i ejacullate i am wasting lives?
Does the baby have consciousness or is it self aware? At what point does the baby become self aware and i can be said to be denying it a chance at life.

If the baby is not self aware, it cannot have a desire to live and if killed i had taken nothing away from the child.

Now i am just complicating things...

In the end, do what is right based on your best judgement. Sometimes it is better to just abort the child and save it the unfortunate realities of life

Nice

[img]https://media./images/ec7c95b36672cd5b4c24556736030080/tenor.gif[/img]

[quote author=Michellekabod post=74108950][/quote]


Agnostics and atheists....

You guys are siblings.....same thing in mind.....different in name.

Originakalokalo:



Agnostics and atheists....

You guys are siblings.....same thing in mind.....different in name.

agnosticism is in a broad sense atheism.

More correctly put, unsure atheism

Originakalokalo:



Agnostics and atheists....

You guys are siblings.....same thing in mind.....different in name.

Would rather be an identical twin to atheism than to your christianity

Michellekabod:

Would rather be an identical twin to atheism than to your christianity

Good luck with that.

Michellekabod:

I will gladly wish to know my offence

Me too. I wish to know your offence and especially whom you offended because something is not right.

toyosi20188:
I used to think these atheists were some sort of moral teachers or a bunch of Mahatma Gandhis. Imagine the ludicrous opinions. They accuse theists of hypocrisy meanwhile themselves are like whitewashed sepulchres with all filth within.

Leave the atheists. They are confused. They are like useful idiots that stay neutral in time of war.

I am a servant of Satan. My fight is against the soldiers of kryst, the crucified, weeping, impotence.

The scripture is my sword and I destroy with word and truth.

alfaman3:


Me too. I wish to know your offence and especially whom you offended because something is not right.

Nothing is not right for me not to have sex in a decade?

Michellekabod:

Nothing is not right for me not to have sex in a decade?

If you actually believe that, then your problem is bigger than I supposed.

The first step to healing is admitting we have a problem.

alfaman3:


The first step to healing is admitting we have a problem.

Lols...yes admitting there is a problem arises only when there is indeed a problem

I am happier than ever,living my life to the fullest. Single but fufilled and joyous

CAPSLOCKED:


YUP.. NO NEED BRINGING KIDS INTO THIS WORLD TO COME AND SUFFER IF YOU CAN'T TAKE CARE OF THEM.

MADAM THREAD STARTER, I THINK IT'S VERY WRONG FOR YOU TO DIRECT THIS QUESTION TO ATHEIST. YOU MAKE IT LOOK LIKE ATHEIST ARE IMMORAL AND CARE LESS ABOUT ANYTHING.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE ATHEIST FEELS OR SAYS ON THIS TOPIC CUS AT THE END OF THE DAY 99% OF PEOPLE WHO COMMIT ABORTIONS ARE RELIGIOUS. MORE THAN 99% OF THE CRIMINALS AND TERRIBLE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE RELIGIOUS, AND THESE ARE THE GUYS CONDEMNING THINKERS FOR NOT BELIEVING THEIR DEITIES.

Doing terrible things and shouting "God told me, God told me". Doing terrible things with their religion's backing.

Michellekabod:

Lols...yes admitting there is a problem arises only when there is indeed a problem

I am happier than ever,living my life to the fullest. Single but fufilled and joyous

Keep lying to yourself.

alfaman3:


Keep lying to yourself.

Keep believing what you choose to

Gosh! Why are you people like this? A pro-choice christian? That is nothing more than an oxymoron.

Now look, anyone who does things which are contrary to Christ preached is not a Christian. A Christian means being christ-like or follower of Christ. Now, as Christians, our only standard is the Bible, not what the next "supposed Christian" does.

Christianity condemns killing of any kind so wether or not your "Christian" friends endorses abortion or not is totally inconsequential.

We are talking about a life here. So its okay to mutilate a child as long as they don't come to this world to suffer?damn!!!
You you know that abortion actually entails chopping up a foetus to bits? Like basically crushing the head, arms and other body parts? What then is the difference between you pro-choice supporters and ISIS?

Also, since poverty is your defense in perpetuating such does that then mean it's okay to kill off poor people? Because it's the exact same logic.

janettee:
Personally I'm an atheist and really pro choice ..No need bringing a child to this world if you know deep down you won't take care of them well. Look at Nigeria's population. Parents breeding like rabbits and giving birth to children they can't take care of...

Even the religious who preach pro life never take time to visit motherless babies home or orphanage.

They are only pro life till the child is born. Let me not even get into the fact that they have abortions too and still preach pro life.

I don't know why this question is directed to atheists specifically though. I know Christains who are equally pro choice. It has nothing to do with religion..

Michellekabod:

Keep believing what you choose to

If what you are telling me is true, then answer me this in all honesty.

How long do you intend to go on without sex? Another decade? 20 years? Rest of your life? Please be honest.

Michellekabod:

Mr commenter/uppercase typist, i am aware of the theists opinion on the issue of abortion which is no, that is why i inquired on the atheists opinion.
My intentions are never to judge or rate any human on the globe concerning the issue of abortion

so, do you support abortion?

malvisguy212:
so, do you support abortion?

NO

Michellekabod:
NO

are you an atheist ?

malvisguy212:
are you an atheist ?

I am an atheist and I don't support abortion

johnydon22:
I am an atheist and I don't support abortion

why? is abortion right or wrong ?

long time Johnny.

malvisguy212:
why? is abortion right or wrong ?

long time Johnny.

It is wrong..

https://www.nairaland.com/4859228/abortion-morally-permissible

johnydon22:


It is wrong..

https://www.nairaland.com/4859228/abortion-morally-permissible

when you say its wrong, is it your instinct that told you it wrong or Because other people say it's wrong ?

malvisguy212:
when you say its wrong, is it your instinct that told you it wrong or Because other people say it's wrong ?

Neither