XxSabrinaxX:

Show me proof. Asking me to research this seems like a cheap cop out to me. No offense.

JMAN05:


Go and download a book entitled "Mankind Search For God". Speaking about all the major religion in the world is a search that will take a long time. I did make such research in the past. I tell you that it is best you do such research yourself. But that book is a better start.

JMAN05:


Go and download a book entitled "Mankind Search For God". Speaking about all the major religion in the world is a search that will take a long time. I did make such research in the past. I tell you that it is best you do such research yourself. But that book is a better start.

XxSabrinaxX:

SMH. I should download a book?
Fine. In that case, since we're reading books now, I'll ask you to download "God The Failed Hypothesis" and "God Is Not Great".

XxSabrinaxX:

SMH. I should download a book?
Fine. In that case, since we're reading books now, I'll ask you to download "God The Failed Hypothesis" and "God Is Not Great".

JMAN05:


Kalam cosmology disproves those books. You can explore that too. It is a logical prove of a supernatural using scientific theories.

XxSabrinaxX:

The Kalam cosmological argument is garbage. The argument basically goes like this:
*Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
*The universe began to exist.
*Therefore, the universe must have a cause.
*And so follows the timeless god that created the universe
This premise is terribly flawed. Here's why,

1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause
This claim needs evidence to support it

2. The universe began to exist
So does this claim. The Big Bang may or may not be the beginning of the universe and the very word beginning may not be very well suited in the absence of time anyhow.

3. Therefore the universe must have a cause
Provided you assume both the premises which there is no reason to, yes that would be correct.

4. And so follows the timeless god that created the universe
No, that doesn't follow. A "cause" isn't necessarily a "timeless god" and generally the term "god" is associated with a form of sentience or at least intent which certainly doesn't follow. I also don't understand why so many people assume the universe had a beginning, even before the "big bang" everything was a singularity. At least as I understand it.
I'd advise you to check this link out:
http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Kalam

HellVictorinho:

'The Universe' is what we call everything we can observe.
I call it a Form of Existence.
"Universe" is not a word that can actually name what we call 'Everything' since we don't always agree on what we actually mean by "Everything".

JMAN05:


Kalam cosmology disproves those books. You can explore that too. It is a logical prove of a supernatural using scientific theories.

godwinstringed1:











You are immature to understand that no one can win an argument. You will continue to argue in vain. If you win the talk, that doesn't mean the other party supports it. Meaning you can't win any argument!


Why are you so stubborn to return to your creator, who created you?

XxSabrinaxX:

Delta State



Springfield, Massachusetts


Nah, I was born in Nigeria. I did college in the US and I've remained since



Its alright. No problem

Michellekabod1:

Am also from delta.....hugs

Michellekabod1:

Am also from delta.....hugs

are you the one on your DP

XxSabrinaxX:

Hugs
[img]https://media1./images/f13a06c4e61f978c25e6d4f5996f8f90/tenor.gif[/img]

luvmijeje:


XxSabrinaxX, before I answer your questions, let me state clearly that I'm not a Christian but I believe so much in God.

There's different between being religion and being spiritual. Religion is serving God via keeping the laws of man while spirituality is serving God without the laws of man. Religion is man-made while spirituality is not. Religion is following the ways of others while spirituality is following your own way. Religion defines God but spirituality defines you. Religion limits God but spirituality explodes Him. Religion is a tool of control but spirituality is a tool of discovery. Religion crushes your mind but spirituality explodes your mind. Religion is limited but spirituality is limitless.

Since I'm not religious, I won't be able to answer your questions.

sonmvayina:


God is divine consciousness... Except you say consciousness does not exist... Then that's OK too

Fossil:



Abeg where do you guys get all this views from...?

XxSabrinaxX:
I posted these questions to one of the threads under the religious forum. But I found these questions interesting and I decided to dedicate a thread to answering these questions. Some of these questions are questions that have haunted me way back when I was still a christian:

* Why does geography seem to have far more to do with one's religious choice than actual free will?
* How can you say God loves and cares about everyone if some people suffer while others prosper?
* Even if we assume that one particular religion is true, doesn't the existence of many religions at least prove that mankind likes to make up religious stories, and that people have a tendency to believe them? How do you know yours isn't one of those?
* If everyone actually believes in the Christian god, why would highly religious non-Christians purposefully following the wrong religion, especially when that religion is more strict or just as strict as any sect of Christianity?
* If Adam and Eve only knew good and evil after eating the fruit, then why did God assume when he told them not to eat it that they knew it was "wrong"?
* Why do we inherit sin from our ancestors, but salvation has to be an individual choice?
* If god is omniscient, (all knowing), why do you need to pray to him?
* If god is omniscient, (all knowing), why does he need to test us?
* If god is omnibenevolent, (All Loving) why did he create evil? In Isaiah 45:7 the scripture reads as follows: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
* Please explain the difference between a "Claim" and "Evidence" and after doing so, please show me the evidence for your god.

P.S I want to appeal now before its too late. If you're a christian and the only thing you're going to do in this thread is hurl insults, I'd advise you to reconsider and stay away from this thread. Lets try our best to keep a civil argument

Cc. Seun, OAM4J, Mynd44, budaatum, LordReed, HellVictorinho, Ihedinobi3, solite3, TATIME , Originakalokalo, TheArranger, HellVictorinho, Janettee, adoyi8, Vic2Ree, CAPSLOCKED, Dantedasz, Martinez19, Rebekkah, Michellekabod1, Ubenedictus, MJBOLT, HardMirror, RuthlessLeader, tintingz, bloodofthelamb, frosbel2, jesusjnr, luvmijeje, finalboss, Mobilia, frank317, HopefulLandlord, Ranchhoddas, OtemAtum, vaxx, MhizAngel99, GospelAkede, elknice, lightblazingnow, CreepyBlackpool, 9inches, PastorAIO
Shelumiel, you're free to come and discuss too

JMAN05:


Go and download a book entitled "Mankind Search For God". Speaking about all the major religion in the world is a search that will take a long time. I did make such research in the past. I tell you that it is best you do such research yourself. But that book is a better start.

Fossil:



Different kind of people!

XxSabrinaxX:

Its common sense. Moreover I've explained it over and over in other threads.

XxSabrinaxX:
If freewill were possible, yes.

XxSabrinaxX:
As I understand it, Determinism (which I take to be Causal Determinism) posits that all activity in the universe is both (i) the effect of all prior activity, and (ii) the only activity that can occur given the prior activity. That is what is meant by saying that everything is “determined” — it is the inexorable consequence of activity that preceded it. In a deterministic universe, everything that has ever occurred, is occurring, and will occur since the universe came into existence (however that might have occurred) can only occur exactly as it has occurred, is occurring, or will occur, and cannot possibly occur in any different manner. This mandated activity necessarily includes all human action, including all human cognition.
As I understand the notion of Free Will, it posits that a human being, when presented with more than one course of action, has the freedom or agency to choose between or among the alternatives, and that the state of affairs that exists in the universe immediately prior to the putative exercise of that freedom of choice does not eliminate all but one option and compel the selection of only one of the available options.
Based on the foregoing, if Determinism is true, human beings lack the ability to think in a manner that is not 100% caused by prior activity that is outside of their control, and thereby lack Free Will. By the same token, if human beings have Free-Will, they are capable of thinking in a manner that is not 100% caused by prior activity that is outside of their control, which rules out Determinism.
As I understand the two concepts, Determinism and Free Will are irreconcilably incompatible. Hence, I still fail to understand how humans can be punished by God for actions they have no control over.

XxSabrinaxX:
I read books and I do my research.

XxSabrinaxX:
Are you admitting that Jesus is responsible for this discord? Besides, why can't an allpowerful being effectively enforce peace if he wanted to?

XxSabrinaxX:
I remember vaguely reading articles that the letters to the Corinthians might be "sewn together" from multiple letters and ultimately re-written, but I don't remember the arguments well. I'll keep trying to find those articles.
However, my point still stands on the fact that Paul was an advocate for equality in the church.
https://margmowczko.com/equality-in-pauls-letters/

And as for those claims, it'd be important to know that Paul's authorship of the pastoral epistles (1st Timothy, 2nd Timothy, Titus) isn't really aunthetic. I suggest reading this wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Pauline_epistles
There's a high possibility he didn't write those passages you brought up.

XxSabrinaxX:
I suppose you're making an analogy here between mankind and Satan. But didn't God create Satan himself?

XxSabrinaxX:
If God is supposedly against inbreeding in the bible, why did he indirectly cause it after the Noah Ark incident?

XxSabrinaxX:
Can YOU demonstrate that God and Satan weren't basically betting on Job abandoning his faith? Also I've said enough about the concepts of freewill and determinism. You should know where I'm coming from by now

XxSabrinaxX:
I just summarized God's plan to the best of my knowledge. Stop asking me to demonstrate. Address my statements and prove them wrong.

XxSabrinaxX:
I'll rebut the rest later so don't respond yet. I have places to be.

CAPSLOCKED:

NO. BUT I CAN TWERK.

frosbel2:
Christians have been thoroughly trashed on this forum by you guys, well done.

Even the apologists have fled the scene !

gensteejay:
The age-old debate God.

Methinks this argument can never really end in any reasonable conclusion.

Man can never truly understand God/First Cause/Existence. Only the deep can understand the deep. Only God can understand itself.

In spite of all the lies, half-truths, and contradictory beliefs in religion about God, or the facile approach of atheists to this kind of issue, attributing the design of complex and intelligent natural systems (man, planets, galaxies, etc.) to chance and/or evolution is simply irrational.

(At least, considering the shortcomings of the evolution theories.)

The simple fact is, an intelligent design requires and points to the existence of an intelligent maker.

hahn:


Even you had to abandon the religion

XxSabrinaxX:

Attributing it to a deity is equally irrational given that there is no way to prove the supernatural.

gensteejay:
The simple fact is, an intelligent design requires and points to the existence of an intelligent maker.

gensteejay:

How is the highlighted assertion below irrational?

TATIME:

Christians are not to command allegiance Sir,unlike what ATHEISTS who are formerly Churchgoers were taught in the Churches!
Christianity is for simple presentation of a PERFECT way of life which if carefully considered SHOULD be unexceptional. If the listener accept it,we're to teach them other necessary things but if they reject or ignore, we're to switch swiftly to the next person. So it's unlike ATHEISM where there is NO standard at all as every individual is meant to map out his/her own standard amidst billions of intelligent creatures all having different likeness and hobbies!
So while ATHEISTS are meant to argue and argue with no certainty of agreeing on standards, CHRISTIANS have a ROLE MODEL (Jesus of Nazareth) therefore we are to LEAVE those who just feel like arguing alone to sort out their own standards as in the best way of living or coexisting with other intelligent creatures! 1Timothy 6:4,Philippians 2:14,Titus 3:9,Colossians 2:4
That's why TRUE Christians takes their leave NOT because ATHEISTS (who have no bases or standards) trashed Christianity (who has a form of DOCUMENT to guide them). Granted, majority of those claiming Christians are thinking that Christianity should be a thing of choice as in choosing which aspect you like and leaving the parts that's displeasing. But to me it's still much better than ATHEISM that can't agree on any form of standard at all!

XxSabrinaxX:

Intelligent design, eh?

Let's start with the human eye:
The human eye is generally acknowledged to be a wondrous design. However, it’s actually an awful design from a design perspective.
First of all, the human eye is built upside down. And backwards. It requires photons of light to travel through the
* cornea
* lens
* aquaeous fluid
* blood vessels
* ganglion cells
* amacrine celld
* horizontal cells
* bipolar cells.....
before they reach the light-sensitive rods and cones that transduce the light signal into neural impulses. Which are then sent to the visual cortex at the back of the brain for processing into meaningful patterns.
For optimal vision, why would an Intelligent Designer have built an eye upside down, and backwards? And why "design" a Blind spot into the eye?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_spot_(vision)

Then we go to the human body.
The human body is a wondrous design.
Not so wondrous if your baby is born with dysfunctional organ systems, or with severe deformity.
Are we talking about the same designer here?
What happened?
https://www.google.com/search?q=babies+born+with+severe+deformities&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwir--TC94XgAhUGTBUIHSM6BbkQ_AUIDigB&biw=1366&bih=654

How about nature?
Nature is wondrously inspiring. Kudos to the designer.
Is this the same designer who designed tsunamis and hurricanes? What happened there?

gensteejay:

Lols, you made a number of funny claims.

Let me address your claims one by one:

Are you saying man isn't an intelligent biological system? Note I used "intelligent" in my original submission, not "perfect".

It seems you're mixing up the 2.

Is it wrong to use the phrase, "intelligent life", in describing humans?

Your post above shows you admit man is fashioned by a designer. Am I right?

I will address your other claims when you answer those questions.

HellVictorinho:
Did you know God is also a consuming fire? But Christians still love their consuming fire.