Haba! How can i fight you broda.
Just that i notice mazaje pushing david to the edge and you bought into his usual tactics of diversion when he his sucking his last breath. Go back for review.

Rhino.3dm:

Haba! How can i fight you broda.
Just that i notice mazaje pushing david to the edge and you bought into his usual tactics of diversion when he his sucking his last breath. Go back for review.

another unintelligent fellow who buys into his own hype. Sets up a thread and cant make any intelligent input, simply sitting back to crow about fellow clueless mates making a fool of themselves.

Where did mazaje "push me to the edge"? A lot of you mistake personal insults for informed comment. No wonder, that seems to be what passes for "intelligence" these days.

^^^ am just turning the other cheek. Lol!

Rhino.3dm:

^^^ am just turning the other cheek. Lol!

no you're just full of air between the ears. 3 pages and you have no sensible contribution to your own thread? What a shame.

^^ Guy easy now. Must every thread end with a climax of blind infinite loop of arqument? If you are so 'intelligent' as you claim you shouldnt have fail to notice that the OP has made his complete simplified take on the issue. So what do you want?

Rhino.3dm:

^^ Guy easy now. Must every thread end with a climax of blind infinite loop of arqument? If you are so 'intelligent' as you claim[b] you shouldnt have fail to notice that the OP has made his complete simplified take on the issue. So what do you want? [/b]

The OP made an unverifiable claim then slinks off to a corner to lick his chops. If that is "intelligence" then pls wake me up when pigs fly.

. . . . Or when the 'dead jewish carpenter' has resurrected.

davidylan:

The OP made an unverifiable claim then slinks off to a corner to lick his chops. If that is "intelligence" then pls wake me up when pigs fly.

Rhino.3dm:

. . . . Or when the 'dead jewish carpenter' has resurrected.

Oh yeah . . . a perfect example of "reason".

. . . Oh Yeah i thought you should be fast asleep. Pazzo!

davidylan:

Oh yeah . . . a perfect example of "reason".

Rhino.3dm:

. . . Oh Yeah i thought you should be fast asleep. Pazzo!

This is why i believe threads like this make no sense. Apart from that the religion section seems to have devolved primarily due to the influx of air-heads who think their lack of religion automatically guarantees them entry into the club of those who can "think".

Lets be entirely honest . . . is this the BEST the OP really has to offer despite his ludicrous claim of "intelligence"? What exactly do we define as "intelligent" these days? the mere ability to set up a thread? Gone are the days when you could count on a few atheists who were confident enough to debate ISSUES . . . what do we get these days?

wow

^^^ suddenly you woke up from slumber. My guy you no dey try. Next person pls.

@davidylan:

davidylan:

That would be based on the assumption that every christian who takes on the label is actually one.

Only those who seem to be in unison on doctrinal injunctions are regarded as true to the rest who believe same.  Others are false.   And based on that, many will regard even you - davidylan - as a false Christian.  At the end of the day, we're left with the "Christianity is a personal relationship, only God knows those who worship him in truth and in spirit" cliche.  And herein lies the problem with determining who a "true Christian" is.

Purist:

@davidylan:

Only those who seem to be in unison on doctrinal injunctions are regarded as true to the rest who believe same.  Others are false.   And based on that, many will regard even you - davidylan - as a false Christian.  At the end of the day, we're left with the "Christianity is a personal relationship, only God knows those who worship him in truth and in spirit" cliche.  And herein lies the problem with determining who a "true Christian" is.

Except to those who wish to decieve themselves, there is no such problem. the bible is crystal clear on what a christian should be. Read it.

Again i point to the constant use of subjective human behaviour as an excuse to say "oh christianity is bad or confusing or just plain rubbish". Not all yorubas act the same way . . . is this reason to suggest that there is confusion as to what is genuine yoruba culture?

Purist:

@davidylan:

Only those who seem to be in unison on doctrinal injunctions are regarded as true to the rest who believe same.  Others are false.   And based on that, many will regard even you - davidylan - as a false Christian.  At the end of the day, we're left with the "Christianity is a personal relationship, only God knows those who worship him in truth and in spirit" cliche.  And herein lies the problem with determining who a "true Christian" is.

Davidylan keep blowing hot air when in reality he does not know what he is talking about. . . .A lot of Christians here have called him a blasphemer, and I know others that believe he is not really a Christian, he like them has tagged others as unbelievers because of how they chose to interpret the bible. . . . . .On whose authority does he keep declaring that others are not truly Christians or not truly saved? Once you don't subscribe to davidylan's personal delusions then you are not truly a Christian. . . . .And he expects any body to take him seriously, what a deluded blow hard. . . . .

davidylan:

Except to those who wish to decieve themselves, there is no such problem. the bible is crystal clear on what a christian should be. Read it.

What or who is a Christian according to the bible?. . . . . . .

mazaje:

Davidylan keep blowing hot air when in reality he does not know what he is talking about. . . .A lot of Christians here have called him a blasphemer, and I know others that believe he is not really a Christian, he like them has tagged others as unbelievers because of how they chose to interpret the bible. . . . . .On whose authority does he keep declaring that others are not truly Christians or not truly saved? Once you don't subscribe to davidylan's personal delusions then you are not truly a Christian. . . . .And he expects any body to take him seriously, what a deluded blow hard. . . . .

again with you folks it boils down to personal insults and no attempt to address pertinent issues. Pigs sure fly if one expects any atom of intelligence from your posts.

Having said that - i repeat quite clearly (it seems many NEVER read, they simply post), the bible and NOT ME is the standard for who a christian is. By the bible standards even i fall very short . . . all of us do, we simply rely on His grace for help.

When you buy an equipment and it behaves erratically, do you refuse to buy another equipment because you're not sure how others may behave? No you figure out how it shld normally work based on the manufacturer supplied manual.

Extend the same to christianity and all problems are solved.

Now i do understand that a lot of opposition to christianity follows a fairly clear pattern:

1. Opposition comes first regardless of the validity of the arguments again

2. atheists then build a case against the bible on the basis of their initial baseless opposition. We used to call that wuruwuru to the answer in those days.

mazaje:

What or who is a Christian according to the bible?. . . . . . .

very simple - Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

It doesnt matter if another sect decides to concoct their own spin. the manual has laid it clear to us.

davidylan:

again with you folks it boils down to personal insults and no attempt to address pertinent issues. Pigs sure fly if one expects any atom of intelligence from your posts.

You should be the last person that should be complaining about insults, some one like you that is VERY well known for insulting others most of the time. . . .You fools used to be your favorite word, no?. . . . .

Having said that - i repeat quite clearly (it seems many NEVER read, they simply post), the bible and NOT ME is the standard for who a christian is. By the bible standards even i fall very short . . . all of us do, we simply rely on His grace for help.

I want to know what the biblical standard is since most Christians are yet to agree on what it really is. . . . .

When you buy an equipment and it behaves erratically, do you refuse to buy another equipment because you're not sure how others may behave? No you figure out how it shld normally work based on the manufacturer supplied manual.

In the case of the bible people are yet to understand what the manufactures manual truly is. . . . .

Extend the same to christianity and all problems are solved.

Now i do understand that a lot of opposition to christianity follows a fairly clear pattern:

1. Opposition comes first regardless of the validity of the arguments again

2. atheists then build a case against the bible on the basis of their initial baseless opposition. We used to call that wuruwuru to the answer in those days.

What exactly are the "valid arguments"?. . . . .The same can be said about your opposition to Islam, no. . . .I laugh in hebrew. . . . .

davidylan:

very simple - Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

It doesnt matter if another sect decides to concoct their own spin. the manual has laid it clear to us.

Good, most sects I know COMPLETELY agree with the verse you have up there, so on what basis then do you go about declaring that others(Catholics for example) are not true Christians? I know a lot of Catholics for example that fully agree and profess this biblical passage you have up there, but to you and others like you, they are not true Christians, how then do you know that they are not true Christians when the bible has declared that they are Christians?. . . Catholics believe that they are the Children of God and have faith in Christ, a lot of them are also baptized into Christ, so on what basis then do you go around declaring that they and others are not truly Christians?

mazaje:

You should be the last person that should be complaining about insults, some one like you that is VERY well known for insulting others  most of the time. . . .You fools used to be your favorite word, no?. . . . .

I cant deny that . . . i apologise to anyone who feels offended. Sincerely.

mazaje:

I want to know what the biblical standard is since most Christians are yet to agree on what it really is. . . . .

I already posted it . . . lets be honest, its been posted here too many times for you to claim ignorance.

mazaje:

In the case of the bible[b] people are yet to understand what the manufactures manual truly is[/b]. . . . .

they do, they just choose to pretend they dont.

mazaje:

What exactly are the "valid arguments"?. . . . .The same can be said about your opposition to Islam, no. . . .I laugh in hebrew. . . . .

you can choose to laugh in korean shld you pls. Its pertinent to note that this page is going to page 3 and YET we cant have any serious theological question from the atheists crew to consider.

mazaje:

Good, most sects I know COMPLETELY agree with the verse you have up there, so on what basis then do you go about declaring that others(Catholics for example) are not true Christians? I know a lot of Catholics for example that fully agree and profess this biblical passage you have up there, but to you and others like you, they are not true Christians, how then do you know that they are not true Christians when the bible has declared that they are Christians?. . . Catholics believe that they are the Children of God and have faith in Christ, a lot of them are also baptized into Christ, so on what basis then do you go around declaring that they and others are not truly Christians?

Quite funny. you read the above and YET ask the above question? Its not a matter of merely "agreeing" with Gal 3:26-27, do those people LIVE THAT VERSE? Let me explain . . . the fact that i know about the law is not enough unless you practice it! you wont get out of jail for violating the law simply by claiming you know and agree with it.

Having said that - the catholic doctrine is one that runs counter to Gal 3:26. While the bible expressly states that we are children of God by FAITH in Jesus, the catholic doctrine says you are a child of God based on your WORKS and PENANCE. It couldnt be any clearer.

i'm beginning to think the use of the term 'Christian' was started as a political propaganda
my first knowledge of the etymology of the term was in CRK class when i was in JSS III
>>> i remember it so vividly >>> the Corinths (i'm guessing it was mst likely their leadership) didn't know what to classify this new sect >>>

the word 'Christian' >>> meaning 'follower of Christ' was born >>> \

that being said @ mazaje >>> your statements have 'provoked' me to go wikia the etymology of the word 'Christian'
nevertheless >>> i thought my  eamples in my earlier posts would at least, sway u, off ur seemingly atheist 'unbeliefs'

@davidylan:

davidylan:

Except to those who wish to decieve themselves, there is no such problem. the bible is crystal clear on what a christian should be.

Crystal clear - I like the sound of that.  But if that were to be the case indeed, there wouldn't be over 30,000 sects today within Christianity alone.

davidylan:

Read it.

The problem is not "reading" the Bible.  The problem is "interpreting" the Bible - correctly, I must add.  Did I hear you say one needs the Holy Spirit to do that?  There must be over 30,000 of them!

davidylan:

Again i point to the constant use of subjective human behaviour as an excuse to say "oh christianity is bad or confusing or just plain rubbish". Not all yorubas act the same way . . . is this reason to suggest that there is confusion as to what is genuine yoruba culture?

Your analogy is flawed because there is no central, laid-down pattern that the Yoruba people are obliged to follow.  Culture is dynamic, and so the Yoruba people can be readily excused if there are so many sects doing things differently.  The same excuse cannot be made for Christianity, because Christianity itself claims be one body.  When Christians begin to act in different ways, and cannot agree on even the most basic tenets of their faith, while all still claiming to be looking up to the same person, then it's either that one person is suffering from a really acute Multiple Personality Disorder, or the followers are very, very confused.

Purist:

@davidylan:

Crystal clear - I like the sound of that.  But if that were to be the case indeed, there wouldn't be over 30,000 sects today within Christianity alone.

That's absurd. I mean your claim here is based on the assumption that billions of people will act in exactly the same way, understand exactly the same way and actually be truthful when they make a claim to be christian.

1. Many claim they are "christians" when they have never been anywhere near a church nor own a bible . . . is that the bible's fault too?

2. Even during the times of Christ . . . there were those who opposed the apostles and wanted to do things their own way in apparent rebellion . . . all under the banner of the same "christianity" . . . the bibles fault too?

See you can go on and on and on . . . human nature is as fluid as water. Only when it comes to christianity do we have atheists pontificating that billions MUST act the same way.

the rest of your post is rehashing the same point so i wont bother.

@ Purist >>> i, myself pointed out in my earlier posts about the same sin of interpretation
>>> as common to law, philosophy & scientific hypothesis >>> they aren't viewed (by atheists) as less valid (but yet justifiable)

Rhino.3dm:

I know its kind of funny but at times am forced to believe that athiest are the most intelligent and educative people.

^This remains just your personal opinion until you can back it up with a scientifically and statistically valid proof. Perhaps this comment was meant tongue-in-cheek.

Rhino.3dm:

When you take a dispassionate glance at  majority of the posts in this section you will get a clue of what am instinuating.

^How do the posts indicate the relative intelligence of the poster. No doubt atheists will feel somewhat flattered and gratified to think that they are more intelligent than the general population

Rhino.3dm:

Though am not one of them, but i have to give it to them. Infact  i felt it will right if mods introduce a psychometric test as a pre-requisite in this section with a minimum cut off IQ and the results to be displayed automatically close to all user's ID.  what do you think? ?

^Should such a measure  be introduced; you might find yourself surprised by the results. I know one Christian gentle man with an IQ of 138---well above most atheists.

Rhino.3dm:

And if you are still in doubt just lacate "How Joeagbaje Became God" for quick refrence.
While i wait replies i will want every body to repeat this  statement before posting

' AM NOT GOING TO BE BIAS' 
               
                    Thanks 

^I don't know of what relevance the thread above is to the question at hand. Perhaps you may want to show us examples of posts from atheists and others from that thread that lead to your conclusion.

Lets test the bible for contradictions:
Was the stone to the tomb, open or not?
How did judas die?
Is God's anger forever?
Does God rest?

Kay 17:

Lets test the bible for contradictions:
Was the stone to the tomb, open or not?
How did judas die?
Is God's anger forever?
Does God rest?

Care to provide supporting evidence for these "contradictions"? the problem with questions like this is that kay 17 wont be back to defend his positions soon as you point out the ignorance behind this (most of these alleged questions are just sourced from the internet, very little intelligence required) . . . soon he'd be on another thread bemoaning how arguing with you gives him a headache.

What do we mean by intelligence?  Are we referring to the use of 'Reason' for arriving at the truth?  If that is the case then it is without doubt that parts of the  new testament and indeed some of the early church fathers pit themselves directly against reason.  Their influence on christianity has had the effect of making christianity anti-intellectual.  One does not have to be an atheist to seem more intelligent that a christian or a moslem (for islam springs directly from the christian tradition and defines itself only within the context of christianity).  All one has to do is reject certain apparently fundamental tenets many christians. 

The christian tendency to embrace stuppidity and even extol it as a virtue.  These tendencies are deep and have their roots very early in the christian tradition.  Consider this scripture:

[20Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

First Corinthians chapter 1

That is said by an authority no less than St. Paul himself.  This attitude is further hammered in but the attitude of certain early church fathers.  Consider Tertullian's statement: Credo Quia Ineptum.  (ie I believe because it is absurd).

"The son of God died;  it is by all means to be believed because it is absurd.  And he was buried and rose again; the fact is certain, because it is impossible."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tertullian

This anti-intellectual stance is a real thorn in the side of christianity in my opinion.  Since Christians are taught perforce to not approach religion with intelligence it follows that anybody else discussing religion with them will always be more intelligent than them, no matter the intellectual deficiencies of the people they are discussing with.[quote][/quote]

Pastor AIO:

This anti-intellectual stance is a real thorn in the side of christianity in my opinion.  Since Christians are taught perforce to not approach religion with intelligence it follows that anybody else discussing religion with them will always be more intelligent than them, no matter the intellectual deficiencies of the people they are discussing with.

Beautiful piece except its just nonsense. I must have learnt a completely different bible because we were not taught to approach it with foolishness.

The point is that you do not understand the passage you quote . . . the writer is making a difference between human wisdom and Godly wisdom. Both are not synonymous with each other. While human wisdom dictates that a virgin cannot conceive . . . faith dictates that it can and DID happen. Now faith is considered foolishness (as you and others constantly express here) . . . but it is considered Godly wisdom - considering that God can do ALL THINGS.

davidylan:

Beautiful piece except its just nonsense. I must have learnt a completely different bible because we were not taught to approach it with foolishness.

The point is that you do not understand the passage you quote . . . the writer is making a difference between human wisdom and Godly wisdom. Both are not synonymous with each other. While human wisdom dictates that a virgin cannot conceive . . . faith dictates that it can and DID happen. Now faith is considered foolishness (as you and others constantly express here) . . . but it is considered Godly wisdom - considering that God can do ALL THINGS.

What I'll need from you is
1) a specific indication as to what part is nonsense and how it is nonsense.

2) a description of human wisdom, and how it works, in comparison with Godly wisdom and how that works.

3) Is Godly wisdom to be equated with Faith?

4) Is intelligence, such as we are taught in school and by our parents, to be used at all in understanding the bible? For example when I was in school I studied English comprehension where we were given a short text to read and then we were asked to answer certain questions about the text.
Consider this text:

Charlotte gently breathed unto her cup of tea and then left it to the table while she went into the kitchen to do the dishes. After doing the dishes she returned to find her cup of tea a lot cooler and quite ready to drink. She picked up her newspaper and slowly read through the first page intermittently lifting the cup of tea to her lips to take a sip.

Question 1) Where did Charlotte drink her cup of Tea?
ans a) in the kitchen or b) not in the kitchen.

Question 2) Why did Charlotte breathe into her cup of tea?
ans a) to cool it down or b) to give it spiritual power.

Question 3) When did Charlotte drink her tea?

ans a) before doing the dishes or b) after doing the dishes

Please Davidylan can you tell me if the skills one is required to develop in order to answer these questions properly can be used in understanding the bible?

davidylan:

considering that God can do ALL THINGS.

All this talk about God being able to do all things is really funny, one thing I know no God can do is heal amputees and restore their amputated limbs. No God can make any body fly from one point to another, so enough of God can do all things mantra. . . . .God can do all things in stories writte about God by men but not in reality. . . . .