@Uyi Iredia:

Uyi Iredia:

recently encountered a Christian who believed in Christ >>> but not the Bible >>>

This appears to be the latest trend in Christianity now.  It seems to me, a convenient way to dissociate oneself from the indefensible dastardly acts perpetrated by Yahweh, while still claiming affiliations with Christ.  Interesting.

Uyi Iredia:

i could as well ask which of the Christian God(s) or Bibles is being referred to (by Mudley), howbeit, i would risk being circular

Which one were you defending earlier?

@ Purist >>> yep it is interesting >>> *I reply with a wry smile* >>>
>>> i'm not giving an answer to your question >>> by all means, deduce the 'God' being talked about in this post

@ Mudley >>> my posts are still relevant to the 'topic' at hand >>> the reason for my former smiley >>> in the meantime i do hope u checked out the sites
>>> i put in >>> the one on my insight & the one on the Christian who doesn't believe in the Bible

>>> still i assert you have no moral right to criticize a 'God' you don't believe in >>> pointing out His 'evil' actions
are of no consequence to me >>> if you don't believe in him

Uyi Iredia:

@ Mudley >>> my posts are still relevant to the 'topic' at hand

no, they are not

in the meantime i do hope u checked out the sites

only if you'll accord me the same by sticking to the subject of the thread
               

>>> still i assert you have no moral right to criticize a 'God' you don't believe in

sorry i do. christianity is the most predominant religion in nigeria, where im from. if nigeria was still practicing ancient traditional religions, killing twins, praying to idols, riverside sacrifices n all, wont you as a deluded christian speak against their delusion? why are you even so scared of criticism against your all-powerful god?

>>> pointing out His 'evil' actions are of no consequence to me >>> if you don't believe in him

and the writers of the bible who believed in this same god like you were the ones who pointed out his evil ways by writing about it. if you have any problem, its with them, not me

can we now go back to the original topic of the thread. incase you've forgotten, its Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT: So, bring out your bible; take a good read and come back to me. if not you're just a moronic confusionist who probably gets a hard on arguing back n forth on the internet

@ Mudley >>> yes they are (i.e the relevance of my former posts)

>>> i never deviated from the topic as i earlier said >>> you should make your questions simple & clear

>>> simplicity & clarity

Goddam! The bible god is a beast! What say you Allah? And Satan did what again?

>>> What do you expect one to make out of this >>> you merely dropped a verse >>> ranted off >>>
and ironically expect objective answers which are relevant to 'the topic' (i.e your rants)

@ Kay 17 >>> guilty? >> how

Christians! You Guys Have Some Work To Put In For The Lord

a sarcastic comment passed off as a 'subject'

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
*** Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.* In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.* If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.* Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.* Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.* That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.* Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.* Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.* He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.* "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."* (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

followed by >>> a pun on Deut 13:13-19 NLT

Goddam! The bible god is a beast!
What say you Allah?


And Satan did what again?

and Mudley expects an 'answer'  >>> to what question?  


and wants me to 

So, bring out your bible; take a good read and come back to me.

  come back to you with what?


to your questions (finally !!! a question)

*1 >>> I would of course, these are acts carried out by humans, not, as it is in our case, by God  (u mixed up instances in Scripture where acts
     where explicitly attributed to God & some (carried out by humans, yet) attributed to God) >>> u clearly didn't give attention to this detail

*2 >>> I am not scared >>> you only surmise that i am from my posts >>> but I would describe my emotions (on reading your topic & subsequent
     posts on this thread) as a panache of pity, anger, empathy, befuddlement & coldness >>> willy-nilly my stance, it is your business to criticize God
     
as you deem fit not mine (as your disagreement with my earlier assertions clearly remonstrate)

if not you're just a moronic confusionist who probably gets a hard on arguing back n forth on the internet

*Uyi proceeds to interpolate an earlier statement to display how HRM Mudley refutes himself*

oh! the usual  anti-christian apologists antics of attacking e-personality instead of tackling the issues raised. stick to the damn 'topic' 

SMH  at this comment >>> u are a very fair game Mr Mudley >>> a very fair game

At least, I'm relieved you found no justification for such barbaric conduct.

Kay 17:

At least, I'm relieved you found no justification for such barbaric conduct.

i think he/she did. "the concept of freewill" or whatever rabble babble the confusionist was trying to espouse. i think just arguing with this religious nut-job has diminished my iq twice less of what it was

Uyi Iredia:

@ Purist >>>The concept of freewill completely invalidates any possible existence of an 'omnidespotic', 'omniwicked', 'omnipresent' and 'omnimalevolent' God.  Case closed !!!

>>> deja vu ?  

@Mudley313

Honestly bro, the root of bitterness has growth so deep in you to the stage that I am starting to feel very sorry for u
I can only imagine the condition of your inner man(heart).

REMEDY.
Get some honey and start licking it 7 times a day and chant
Jesus save me! 7 times.

Jessss what a shame

yommyuk:

Honestly bro, the root of utter delusion has growth so deep in me to the stage that I am starting to feel very sorry for myself
I can only imagine the rot of my inner man(brain) due to being totally brainwashed by utterly absurd foreign religious beliefs and practices brought to us by the white man while at the same time plundering our land and literarily enslaving us.

REMEDY.
see a psychiatrist as soon as possible

i thought as much

@ Mudley 313 >>> i'm still waiting for your reply >>> not rants

Uyi Iredia:

@ Mudley 313 >>> i'm still waiting for your reply >>> not rants

you have deliberately/continously avoided the subject matter of the thread and thus i have no time to be engaged in non-sensical back n forth e-arguments with you. if you're looking for a friend to play with simply log-off n go outside

@ Mudley >>> i haven't >>> i deliberately & continuously ask for you to give simple questions on your 'subject' >>> so that i can answer
>>> give the questions

Uyi Iredia:

@ Mudley >>> i haven't >>> i deliberately & continuously ask for you to give simple questions on your 'subject' >>> so that i can answer
                >>> give the questions

okay. let me try one last time. i hope, as a non-christian, to be educated on these texts straight out your holy book

The act of murder is rampant in the Bible. In much of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, there are laws that command that people be killed for absurd reasons such as working on the Sabbath, being gay, cursing your parents, or not being a virgin on your wedding night. In addition to these crazy and immoral laws, there are plenty of examples of your god's irrationality by his direct killing of many people for reasons that defy any rational explanation such as killing children who make fun of bald people, and the killing of a man who tried to keep the ark of god from falling during transport. There are also countless examples of mass murders commanded by your god, including the murder of women, infants, and children.

Questions: why's the jewish your god so prone to unnecessary, and most of the time unjustified, murderous rampages? why do you label him all-loving when he's clearly depicted as an ego-driven genocidal maniac in your infallible bible? whats up with your god being all-loving and at the same time a blood thirsty despotic monster as clearly depicted in your bible? whats the justification behind all that wickedness and evil? and don't come at me with all that it's just the old testament crap unless you wanna admit that the god's in the old and new testaments are entirely two different entities

Just so you don't feel i'm being too harsh in my language, i will provide you with the following passages which are a very small percentage of the total passages approving of murder in the Bible. They are divided here into three parts: 1) Capital Punishment Crimes, 2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons, 3) Murdering Children, and 4) Miscellaneous Murders. This list is long, but it barely scratches the surface of all the murders approved of in the Bible.

1) Capital Punishment Crimes:

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God (the subject of the thread)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons:

Kill Brats

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

God Kills the Curious

And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)

Killed by a Lion

Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)

Killing the Good Samaritan

The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)

3) Murdering Children

Kill Sons of Sinners

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

God Will Kill Children

The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)

Kill Men, Women, and Children

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

God Kills all the First Born of Egypt

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

Kill Old Men and Young Women

"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

(Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter. So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)

God Will Kill the Children of Sinners

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)

More Rape and Baby Killing

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

not to make fun of your obviously absurd beliefs or nothing, but who needs a devil when we got emperor yahweh

True Christianity, how it leads to Islam

check it here


http://www.alislam.org/library/books/true-christianity-leads-to-islam.html

@Niyi53

I would reverse the statement by repharsing it as

" A good muslim is a good christain"

An uncle of mine is a devout muslim, God fearing and very humble man. He came to my church and was prophesied to by a prophet. The Holy spirit reveal to my uncle that he should continue praticising islam by telling him that " A good muslim will surely make heaven b4 a lot of christians as long as that muslim believes that Jesus Christ is the son of God and accepts him as his Lord and savior.
For your information, the prophet had never met my uncle before.

" A good muslim is a good christain"

Nope! A good muslim is a terrorist!

>>> Uyi calmly reads Mudley 313's posts & gets bored at a point b'cos he has seen 'castigations' like this b4 <<<

Nevertheless u have honored me by asking questions and so i'm obligated to answer them

why's the Jewish your god so prone to unnecessary, and most of the time unjustified, murderous rampages?

Because as God, He will be justified in committing these unjustified & murderous rampages

Would God be omniscient & omnipotent if He could be questioned on the morality of His acts? >>> My answer >>> He wouldn't be

A good analogy would be the fairly recent overturning of prop 8 in the U.S >>> questioning the
morality of the judge's decision remains (just a question) >>>  to be a judge he must pass judgement
>>> whether 'right' or 'wrong' >>> the judgment has been passed

Furthermore 'evil' actions on the part of God doesn't mean He hasn't acted benevolently or isn't benevolent in character
>>> This question (to you) should buffer my statement: Are you good or evil?

whats up with your god being all-loving and at the same time a blood thirsty despotic monster as clearly depicted in your bible?

This question is a tautology of your previous question >>> A tacit one though >>> and i could have easily not noticed it
questioning the unjustified & murderous rampages of the Jewish God >>> whom we already know to be 'all-loving' >>> amounts to
questioning how God is all-loving & a blood-thirsty despotic

In light of this >>> my answer to the former question is apt here but i would like to pun this quote by Epicurus

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able doesn't?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able to prevent evil, but not willing doesn't?
Then he is omniscient
Is he both able and willing?
Yes
Is he neither able nor willing?
No”

God is able & willing >>> but doesn't >>> the key word is DOESN'T >>> God has his own will & sense of good & evil
independent of yours >>> apparently 

whats the justification behind all that wickedness and evil?

What justification do you have to question a God you don't believe exists !!! >>> this is the question i surmised (from your post) when i asserted
that u have no right to question God >>>  when u don't believe He exists or u believe He exists as an imaginary entity >>> more so a God you don't believe exists & a Bible you (more likely than not_as evidenced by your derisive allusions against) treat as a fiction (your assumption of a God for the purpose of your questions notwithstanding) inadvertently puts you in a contradictory position

Besides if i were to even treat this question >>> this debate would derail in to an a debate bordering on moral philosophy

we would have to debate if murder is absolutely wrong or wrong in specific contexts (e.g the abortion debate, the death penalty debate et al)

Your objections are welcome >>> of course

Kill Morality and you destroy Humanity!

A man with a nuclear weapon is justified IF he feels his god directed him to do such. By Mr Uyi. . .

Distorted Epicurus' wonderful lines. A Perfect omnipotent/scient god will create a perfect world, which is lacking!

God has his sense of good and evil? it would be artifical at most since both elements have no impact on him. god can not die, or feel pain and how then can he perceive evil? In the Bible, the creation of a desert tribe goes about causing rampage, its best if such a god is conferred in the shittyy holy book.

Morality is useful to only humans and not imagination from insane desert tribes.

@ Kay 17 >>> u better brush up on your arguments

A man with a nuclear weapon is justified IF he feels his god directed him to do such.

this statement u made amounts to the straw man argument

i already preempted such a response (funny it's u and not Mudley)

yes, i did >>> i had stated that i was going to pun it anyway >>> so what did u expect >>> i distorted Epicurus' lines >>>
Mudley did the same to the Bible 'understandably' to make his point >>> fair play OMP

you are QUITE correct when u mentioned it being artificial >>> i think it is artificial, since man would arbiter which (and effectively has his own interpretation for which) of God's actions is good or evil >>> hence the reason why >>> some Christians bypass Mudley's argument by saying "it's all Old Testament" >>> but your following description of god is a deist or 'ontological' (which distorts your talk of artificiality) >>> not the Judaeo-Christian God >>> who is impacted by evil & good as EXAMPLED in the person of Jesus >>> who (in the Bible) died

if my conception of your use of the term 'artificial' is wrong >>> point it out

Kill Morality and you destroy Humanity!

How >>> do you want me to infer that morality is the basis of man's existence >>> organisms e.g bacteria, viruses, fishes e.t.c exist without any apparent morality (empathy_observed amongst gorillas_not withstanding) more so >>> i don't hear them babble over good & evil >>> then if killing morality destroys humanity >>> how could Australopithecus have evolved morality? talk less of evolve into man >>>

seeing how i had to deviate from the topic >>> (to answer this comment) >>> should be a pointer to how off-point this comment is

A Perfect omnipotent/omniscient god will create a perfect world, which is lacking!

SMH at this comment >>> you could as well try create your own 'perfect' world >>> the concept of choice invalidates 'perfection' as
it were >>> since one can choose what is perfect or not

its best if such a god is conferred in the shittyy holy book.

it's best you keep your 'poo' to yourself >>> there is much evil in the world which has no religious underpinnings >>> and i must state that Theodicy
totally >>> and painfully so >>> ignores God's benevolence >>> passages in Job, Proverbs & The Gospels cover and touch on the the issue of morality
& God's love

Morality is useful to only humans and not imagination from insane desert tribes.

okay

>>>>Uyi<<<<<< is >>>>>foool<<<<<<

As to nuclear weapon, I meant someone detonating it in the name of his god. Like Muslim terrorists. Everyone finds it wrong, but you.

What do bacteria + fungi and fish have to do with humans?

Morality are like subtle laws, which are the basics of laws. Humans as social animals, require this as a bond to a human community, creates an atomsphere of cooperation and controls conflict. Remove morality, and chaos sets in.

What I tried to prove was that god whatever he/she is, is not susceptible to good or evil. Look at murder, if permitted the community will destroy itself from within, thus murder is severely discouraged.

You babble on 'free will'! but there is the sin of disobedience? The god that gives you free will, then sets up a sphere of actions and conduct which you must conform to! Its a blatant contradiction, the purpose of hell and heaven are positive reinforcement to follow his/she/it design.

Christianity like every other religion, has its own exposed cracks, which indicate falsehood.

>>>>Uyi<<<<<< is >>>>>foool<<<<<<

@ Kay17 >>> okay >>> i take comfort in knowing i'm a not the only fool the world has seen >>> Spinoza, also, was a fool

meanwhile ponder on the following quotes & learn

Whatsoever is, is in God, and without God nothing can be, or be conceived.
Baruch Spinoza

Will and intellect are one and the same thing.
Baruch Spinoza

As to nuclear weapon, I meant someone detonating it in the name of his god. Like Muslim terrorists. Everyone finds it wrong, but you.

I am aware of that, you didn't need to tell me, thank you >>> still, go read the straw man >>> and then come back & prove to me that u understand how to avoid it in the context of a debate

Furthermore >>> I am beginning to wonder whether you're a pseudonym of 'Mud' Mudley >>> the above statement is redundant

What do bacteria + fungi and fish have to do with humans?

Dunno !!! >>> care to teach me >>> was thinking we & the fishes have a common ancestor

Morality are like subtle laws, which are the basics of laws. Humans as social animals, require this as a bond to a human community, creates an atomsphere of cooperation and controls conflict. Remove morality, and chaos sets in.

derailing the topic again >>> >>> *still gotta trash this one* >>>> A couple of points

*Humans are not the only social animals (fishes are also social)
*Moral laws aren't required for social bonding
*Cooperation & Conflict are antagonistic (ipso facto your statement refutes itself)
*Chaos has a pattern (viz-a-viz order)

What I tried to prove was that god whatever he/she is, is not susceptible to good or evil. Look at murder, if permitted the community will destroy itself from within, thus murder is severely discouraged.

u tried to >>> pitiably, by asserting >>> but obviously didn't & still haven't >>> Do animals 'discourage' murder? Are they destroyed? [url=http://www.google.com.ng/search?q=encourage+%2B+murder&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a]Has severely discouraging it stopped murder?[/url]

You babble on 'free will'! but there is the sin of disobedience? *1 The god that gives you free will, then sets up a sphere of actions and conduct which you must conform to! Its a blatant contradiction,*3 the purpose of hell and heaven are positive reinforcement to follow his/she/it *2 design.

*1 yep >>> i  babbled on free will >>> but just once >>> and with good reason to >>> u would have better countered my babbling
>>> by pointing out that >>> free will DOES NOT completely invalidate * and saved yourself some typing work 

*2 "his/she/it"  >>> Uyi says: Mary Daly & her co-feminists must have really gotten into this guy's head >>> your choice though 

*3 Are you conforming to it? >>> Do you even suppose such conditions exist? >>> Furthermore, contradictions aren't new >>> they were, are &
will be issues we ave to deal with >>> contradictions are useful >>> tough meat to swallow eh!!! <<<

Christianity like every other religion, has its own exposed cracks, which indicate falsehood

same with atheism & agnosticism >>> which by the way add up to 'the religion' (i.e secular humanism) >>> correct me if I'm wrong

I am aware of that, you didn't need to tell me, thank you >>> still, go read the straw man >>> and then come back & prove to me that u understand how to avoid it in the context of a debate

Having made the point that god is not bound by morality, consequently his followers are not bound by it also, but to the will of their god! Thus 9/11 terrorists are justified to kill such number of ppl, since their god directed them to do such. Just like Joshua and Moses did.

*Moral laws aren't required for social bonding

Give an example of a human society present or past, that has survived without morality?

Cooperation & Conflict are antagonistic (ipso facto your statement refutes itself)

After killing 'control', wouldn't it be so?

u tried to >>> pitiably, by asserting >>> but obviously didn't & still haven't >>> Do animals 'discourage' murder? Are they destroyed? Has severely discouraging it stopped murder?

If every individual is granted absolute freedom, to the extent of killing another man. What would the world be like? You send mankind back to his most primitive state and man will face extinction! Sure fact.

1 yep >>> i babbled on free will >>> but just once >>> and with good reason to >>> u would have better countered my babbling
>>> by pointing out that >>> free will DOES NOT completely invalidate * and saved yourself some typing work Wink

*2 "his/she/it" >>> Uyi says: Mary Daly & her co-feminists must have really gotten into this guy's head >>> your choice though Undecided

*3 Are you conforming to it? >>> Do you even suppose such conditions exist? >>> Furthermore, contradictions aren't new >>> they were, are &
will be issues we ave to deal with >>> contradictions are useful >>>tough meat to swallow eh!!! Smiley <<<

You did not address anything.

same with atheism & agnosticism >>> which by the way add up to 'the religion' (i.e secular humanism) >>> correct me if I'm wrong

DO they delve into mystery?

@ Kay 17

>>> straw man again (ur inferences) >>> not mine

>>> the early man (of course b4 he evolved morality) >>> i'm assuming u accept evolution as a 'fact'

>>> i didn't even need to kill control >>> from whence comes the conflict in an atmosphere of 'cooperation'

>>> nah !!! >>> man would evolve a 'new morality' inter alia >>> 'all-or-nothing' fallacy is what
you are using here >>> there are other plausible scenarios which could play out if there is no morality

>>> then why address it

>>> yes

If you think I misunderstood you, then clarify your position!

@ Kay 17 >>> i don't think >>> I know >>> MY POSITION IS AS IT IS >>> no hidden meanings or shenanigans

but inferring this

Thus 9/11 terrorists are justified to kill such number of ppl, since their god directed them to do such. Just like Joshua and Moses did.

from this

Would God be omniscient & omnipotent if He could be questioned on the morality of His acts? >>> My answer >>> He wouldn't be

A good analogy would be the fairly recent overturning of prop 8 in the U.S >>> questioning the
morality of the judge's decision remains (just a question) >>> to be a judge he must pass judgement
>>> whether 'right' or 'wrong' >>> the judgment has been passed

Furthermore 'evil' actions on the part of God doesn't mean He hasn't acted benevolently or isn't benevolent in character
>>> This question (to you) should buffer my statement: Are you good or evil?

using these inferences

Having made the point that god is not bound by morality, consequently his followers are not bound by it also, but to the will of their god!

Not 4getting that u earlier mentioned this: "Kill Morality and you destroy Humanity!" (How )

na wa for u oh !!! >>> na serious WA !!!

Make it a date with Dr Christopher Kolade @ Harvest Place

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yommyuk:

@Niyi53

I would reverse the statement by repharsing it as

" A good muslim is a good christain"

An uncle of mine is a devout muslim, God fearing and very humble man. He came to my church and was prophesied to by a prophet. The Holy spirit reveal to my uncle that he should continue praticising islam by telling him that " A good muslim will surely make heaven b4 a lot of christians as long as that muslim believes that Jesus Christ is the son of God and accepts him as his Lord and savior.
For your information, the prophet had never met my uncle before.

That prophet is surely a false prophet. The moment a good Muslim "believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and accepts Him as his Lord and Saviour" he ceases to be a good Muslim. So, how can he continue to practise islam and make heaven when he has no ambition of making heaven but paradise?

bumping back up this powerful thread