If The Country Is To Be Saved - Politics - Nairaland
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| If The Country Is To Be Saved by olajide8(m): 2:55pm On May 27, 2019 |
After watching the various down turns of the economy - and the wealth of experience at the beck and call of the presidency - I find it funny to understand why the solution to our problems is so difficult for them to come up with, it's either incompetence they are all paper degree holders without practical knowledge due to the length of disjointedness from the realities of the everyday life of an average Nigerian, or maybe it's sheer wickedness - let us keep them poor so they would be subservient to us, Now, basic economics has thought us that the economy is divided into 3 classes the upper class - middle class and the lower class a pyramid for any type of economic balance - it forms the tripod on which any economy works and is stable - but what has been the economic policies of this administration, their policies have been skewed towards the well being of the upper class and a faulty lower class, forgetting the the bulk of the work force of any nation fall within the middle class (lagos state is a typical example) - now what are the seeming characteristics - we all know, or economist know the features, but how are these features fueled - simple by services and contracts from the private sector and public sector. So funny is this matter that I term it a serious issue, these class of people are those, an ardent admirer and one of my mentors from a distance (the V.P of nigeria) calls the rent seekers, the mistake the economic handlers have made so far, it's painful that they have simply killed the middle class, in a bid to create growth from the lower class, through agricultural and rural economies, but they forget that those that would ride the facilities are in th e middle class and in doing so, they have made the lower class feel the pain of lack which is normally cushioned when funds are extended to them during periods when they have to wait for the maturity of the same farm produce, the policies have sent so many middle class people into the lower class, if not all of them - bank loans, piling health bills, dependents fees and feeding to mention but a few are becoming difficult to bear, to make matters worst what is wrong now, seems right and what is right now looks foolish, (the fight to lay the blame of yahoo yahoo on colonial powers, when what we should all be doing is fighting crime)- they then went into the most unproductive economic policy of trying to create an economy around N20b for the lower class, which would have been so successful if the middle class existed - what should have been the right manner to save the country and get us out of lurking ghost of recession, (because like I have said severally, recession is on break because of the slight rise in the value of sales of crude oil). To the matter at hand, what is the solution? - like they always say it's not govt business to be in business is ludicrous, false and a lie from the pit of hell, majority of the income used to run the economy comes when the FG income, when they spends- so why then shouldn't it be the govt business to be in the right structured business, is there anything bad in having SOE's, especially if we have a well developed Stock market? It's the responsibility of govt to create industries, privatise them by selling a it's shares like the CBN hold minority stake, create employment that would lead to pensionable jobs with health benefit in all geographical zones of the country if we are to solve our problem and reduce the level of insecurity, need I say more let me leave it here for now 1 Like |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by budaatum: 3:03pm On May 27, 2019 |
olajide8:You're entire piece is full of errors but I'll only point out the one above. It is not the duty of "govt to create industries, privatise them by selling it's shares"! The only industry government creates is the "political industry", and by golly have they not created enough of those. It is the responsibility of the people themselves to create industry, while that of government is to create an enabling environment, I'll have you reconsider. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by mcjohny(m): 3:05pm On May 27, 2019 |
Nigeria is at this stage bc we are about to tear the zoo apart 4 Likes 3 Shares
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| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by olajide8(m): 3:10pm On May 27, 2019 |
budaatum: Nope you are wrong there in China they have SOE'S in nigeria in the early 80's we had SOE'S niger dock, Nigerian airways etc but what was the challenge, govt owned 100 stake in them meaning it's nobody business but if it were privatised like mtn and Co the shareholders would have sufficient leverage to dictate who becomes what or who is appointed to where- same with the way the CBN is being run - so in as much as you may feel it's not govt to be in business then it's not govt responsibility to provide roads, power, schools or hospitals because they are also business ventures - to drive home this point the American govt invests in the defense industry of the U.S by given out funds to hard ware manufacturers same with pharmaceutical industries and production of drugs, and etc so don't get it wrong - don't even think like a Nigerian 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by budaatum: 3:32pm On May 27, 2019 |
I very strongly suggest you further research this matter. You are on to something here but bad facts are ruining it. MTN was never an SOE, correct me if I'm wrong, nor does USA Government own or ever owned the arms or pharma industries. They all began as private industries which the government buys from. And China is a special case that I'm certain if you understood you would not welcome in Nigeria unless you adopt the mentality of the Chinese first where graft is welcomed with your head cut off! Nigeria has and has had SOEs - Ajaokuta Steel, Refineries, NEPA, NNPC, Nigerian Airways, Nitel etc - and we know how well they haven't done, even after privatisation, which was mostly to their cronies who stripped their assets and killed them. That precisely is the reason privatisation swept the world back in the 80s, the inefficiency of SOEs and in order to increase efficiency under private ownership, though some claim for asset stripping, just as has mostly happened in Nigeria. You can easily prove me wrong though since we've already done what you propose. Name one SOE that was privatised that has fulfilled your dreams as stated here and see if I can't name three that just died for every one you name. |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by olajide8(m): 4:02pm On May 27, 2019 |
budaatum: Your are getting it wrong MTN had South Africans as the shareholders, and that was why they were repatrating funds back to south Africa in times past and that's how ramaphosa the current president of S.A became a majority shareholder, that aside I used it as an analogy of the best way to manage a SOE. 2ndly I didn't say the American govt owned the pharmaceuticals, I said they invest funds heavily in them same with the defense industry. They even subsidize agriculture. Hahaha I laugh when you say we have done what I propose, please what kind of privatisation are we doing in nigeria? Compare the way banks work and the way phcn works or compare nitel with the way mtn works - let me try and explain more, Nepa was privatised bah, but we only have one set of wires run the streets in your area when you privatise you should have the opportunity to choose which power company wire you want to take power from and even be able to switch between providers in your flat or house, just like glo mtn and airtel services, they own the infrastructure and you don't rely on available infrastructure - what we are doing is liberalization of the sector and not privatisation we are opening up the industry to various service providers in the sector. Eg discos they are not competing in the same space we sold management licenses to them for a period same with genco's compare that with private schools and the telecom sector, it's also like rice stallion, local rice and uncle Bens rice you can choose which one you want and the source you buy from that's privatisation. Now why did our SOE'S fail, they were 100% owned by govt, (which I stated earlier) now imagine ajaokuta was completed and privatised and govt only had 5% stake for the purpose of nominating either the MD or chairman of ajaokuta and the 95% shareholding were owned by banks, and corporate individuals do you think ajaokuta would ever go under? Check out NB's today, check out GTB, even check out union bank. Finally in a country were justice prevails and the right punishment it met out to people that commit an offence do you think we need to behead people like China for corruption? Example to do you know we don't have a law to try kidnapper's with? Now a kidnapper kidnaps someone today and collects N2m that is someone pension or gratuity after working for 35yrs - they go to court and the court gives the offender 7 or max 14yrs in prison, is that sufficient punishment when you compare 35yrs work for N2m and 3days work for N2m what proper jail term should be given to the kidnapper personally if it was allowed 35yrs would be my basic and flogging with hard labour would be my deterrent |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by budaatum: 4:15pm On May 27, 2019 |
Sorry dude. Your post had promise. You are stating the reasons SOEs ("State-owned enterprises, note, and not companies where government is a minority share holder), don't work, which is precisely my point. And you're using the likes of MTN, NB, GTB, Union Bank that were never SOEs, as examples. Any business government owns will be killed by the incompetence of political appointments and graft. Study Nigeria Airways, both while it was an SOE and when the state was a minority shareholder, and you'd likely get my point. |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by olajide8(m): 4:36pm On May 27, 2019 |
budaatum: I understand what you are driving at, but I am stressing this using this lame mans example benue cement was owned by the govt so also nigeria bags (similar to Nigerian airways and co) but when they were privatized dangote bought both including the sugar company of northern nigeria where are they today their shares are on the floor of the NSE, and they are better for it last time I checked their balance sheets and Eps they were doing well for the sector they operate in - AP was privatised and sold to otedola, who changed the identity and they are now Forte oil, same with oando that was formally unipetrol etc this is what I mean by creating an enterprise and selling it, all of these are examples that are working after creating them - less I forget union bank was once govt own, can't remember the name now during the colonial era, yes the others were not govt owned but I used them to stress the point of what real private management has done and can do after establishing these SOE's, further more I used the holding of govt stake to serve an interest in the welfare of nigerians if not they may decide not to follow minimum wage requirement, industry best practise by hiring and firing, the terms of service of employees maybe exploited or they could serve as a security risk and that!s the only reason why I said govt should maintain a maximum stake of 5% in them |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by budaatum: 5:20pm On May 27, 2019 |
olajide8:You'd have to accept my apology. If I'd thought you thought you knew it all, I would have refrained from engaging you on this. I saw promise, despite the errors, and felt you'd be interested is why I bothered, and I'm insisting your op requires further research. Government the world over sold off its SOEs because of the inefficiency of government running businesses. Just observe the running of local governments, ministries, and states even, SOEs in intent and purpose, to understand the inefficiency in government run enterprises. Union Bank was never an SOE. It was a foreign owned bank that was indigenised in the 70s when Nigeria passed laws that foreigners can not hold majority stakes in companies in Nigeria. That act (a form of deprivatisation and creation of SOEs), killed off Nigerian enterprise by the way. A survey of companies that were state owned in Nigeria clearly shows they tend to gobble up more money than they produce. And if you bothered to do your research you'd find only a few out of the many SOEs functioned well in the first place, not to talk of having any worth once sold off. The interest of Nigerians is the interest of Nigerians (funny as that may sound). You're more likely to run your business well if you owned it than if it was part of some national cake. Just check how more hard working Dangote and Otedola's staff are and compare them to those employed in any government ministry. The government does not need to own the company before minimum wage et al is paid, they can pass laws and police it and heavily fine those who violate it instead, it's what is done with banks. |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by budaatum: 5:27pm On May 27, 2019 |
Link to "having any worth" in above. https://www.proshareng.com/news/Nigeria-Economy/Only-10-privatised-firms-are-doing-well,-says-BPE-/7585 |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by olajide8(m): 5:56pm On May 27, 2019 |
budaatum: Well I have seen this before- budaatum: I have monitored a lot of them for years, the use of SOE's was not to say govt should continue to run them after establishment - no!, but to show it was established by govt for example, since the cbn was established the only stake the federal govt has is what they use in nominating the governor and 2 deputy governors all the other members of the board are bank reps and etc, which means they have to render their accounts to the banks as player's and regulators in the finance sector. Be that as it may, I personally feel we have to create viable chains of sustainable industries, and jobs - the private sector as is now, cannot sustain or build this because they have to raise the funds to do this, innoson borrowed money to start and till tomorrow he is still repaying, while it could have been established by govt and he could buy majority shares in the same car factory, by now they would be expanding and employing more not the miserly 200-300 jobs, while they are under paid, the solution to our problems are with us and how we can tailor our own idea's to work for us - we have seen the pitfalls of the past, do we say the new strategy should not be adopted? Moreso how can organisations function in an economy like ours, where for every 10 start up businesses only 1 may survive, because of the harsh economic realities now imagine when industries are created and privatized from agricultural value chain businesses to processing companies and their shares are on the floor of the stock exchange - that is the point I am driving at, if Nigerian airways were properly privatised and not liberalized were other players come in and compete those that used corruption to bring it down would have been weeded out by the system- so also aerotropolis cities would have to been created with the right managers from the private sector - British airways is privately owned, but established by the UK government as our majesty airlines if memory serves me well 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by budaatum: 12:05am On May 28, 2019 |
olajide8:British Airways did not start of government owned. It started with private companies merging. Do some research, please! |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by budaatum: 12:06am On May 28, 2019 |
And governments duty is to create an enabling environment where private venture can thrive. |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by leofab(f): 1:31am On May 28, 2019 |
There was a country |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by olajide8(m): 9:21am On May 28, 2019 |
budaatum: You see this notion Govt responsibility is to create an enabling environment, is said to make govt pass the bulk and responsibility to a supposed private sector that is bleeding from a killed middle class, and lack of funds finance to run business for 2 reason high interest rates and tenor of repayment, bearing in mind that the middle class is the engine room of commerce - we are not even a capitalist state, as far as I know, we run a mixed economy, so how then do we say govt responsibility is only to create an enabling environment? - what Exactly is the definition of enabling - policy formulation only?, but then income from sales of crude oil goes to govt and not the the same private sector? Don't you see the contradiction |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by budaatum: 5:08pm On May 28, 2019 |
olajide8:The government can use it's revenue - oil money and tax - to create an enabling environment by fixing roads, ports, power, policies, that make it is easier for business to be done. |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by Banmeallday: 5:59pm On May 28, 2019 |
The British left so why are we still on the Nigger Area case? |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by olajide8(m): 6:09pm On May 28, 2019 |
budaatum: Let me not drag this debate for too long so I don't bore or overwhelm you- my intent is to show that we have better idea's then those ruling us today even with the million of years of abundant experience they have around themselves. The last time I read, I thought govt responsibility was only to create an enabling environment for the private sector to build roads (LCCI - did it, did it work or fail?), run the ports (intels the home of corruption collect and refuse to remit payments to govt, they feel they should remit what they feel to the FG, they are even above the TSA account thing), gencos and discos AEDC and ekdc come to mind and (liberalization of the chains of power production and distribution and they lie they are privatizing or they have privatized whereas they liberalized some parts of the operation and monetized it for their own corrupt gains, imagine if on your street, you have money to buy 4 100kva generators, you are allowed to disable the wires supplying the street from one useless disco, and you supply the street power and charge the street, people on your street can come and say they don't want your services and I opt for another vendor if they feel they are not getting value for money, you would employ a lot of people and govt would regulate your pricing that is privatization another person can do the same or they can remain on the national grind etc) -, My mind of thought aside, we are all getting it wrong - govt need to be in business to get taxes, why would an average business man want to pay taxes when he has not benefited in anyway from the govt? Imagine this, you don't invest, but you want to collect taxes from those that borrowed money to invest! - we are still playing until we realize that govt need to create industries privatize these industries, deepen the length and breath of the stock market by selling the shares on the floor of the stock market create haulage companies standardize the weight of cars that ply our roads so many things, collect taxes from both the employees and corporations, create a real estate industry and not the charade that the FMBN is doing consuming all the funds meant for building houses and they continue formulate stupid PMI policies, while they are still the ones bankrolling the PMI's, we should be building houses like the jakande era, and not selling estate land to a few people that would build and sell at prices only a thief can afford N40m, N70m cheapest N15m, we need porter-cabin houses container houses on 80sqm of land, with a stipulated time frame for those that buy it to remodel it, using bricks/blocks and they should not cost more then N1.5m, they should be given to graduates so far they have their certificates to back it as security collateral or even at cheaper rates, which are accessible if possible, the bvn should be used to track the few that want to buy and reseller to others, in most countries we make reference to these houses are abound from the US were they use wood to build in the heart of town, to Norway and finland, for those that want to build mansions they should move to the outer area or fringes so as to spread development, in the UK they still have the council flats- that is govts involvement in housing - chinese provincial councils are building real estate high rise buildings for their citizens none stop, india is doing the same - we just have to turn things on there heads and depart totally from our known oppressive and corrupt ways 2 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by budaatum: 6:21pm On May 28, 2019 |
olajide8:The irony is that it is these same "those ruling us today" that you are saying should invest government money in business, lol, despite you yourself admitting that there is nothing to show for the money they 'invest' right now. While I am telling you that they are so useless that if they do invest this money as you say they should, there would be nothing to privatise when they decide to. Perhaps you have more faith in them than I do. I don't trust them one tiny bit and the evidence suggests I should trust them even less. |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by Wiseandtrue(f): 6:40pm On May 28, 2019 |
olajide8: Pray that he (vuhari), I mean Buhari goes the way of Abacha Make it a prayer point! Look for that lady, that once did us a favour!!! Alternatively Atiku should win his mandate!!! I am sorry to say this! No positive solution can come from this government!!! If it's were little mistakes, there could still be hope!!! But the foundation has shown that the president does not know his left from his right!!! And if the foundation is faulty, what can the righteous do  Coupled with the fact that he can lie  The word propaganda had never been used the way it was in this regimeIt's a bitter pill we must all swallow |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by olajide8(m): 10:17pm On May 28, 2019 |
budaatum: Yes they should because as they are now they are lost in where they have to start from 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by budaatum: 10:32pm On May 28, 2019 |
olajide8:I have a saying about the "should" world. Read it below and see if you can tell which world I live in. "In the 'should world' pigs would fly, but in the 'real world' they just grunt". |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by olajide8(m): 10:35pm On May 28, 2019 |
Wiseandtrue: Like it or not God ordained him to get there and fulfill a purpose, abubakar audu was not destined to govern kogi for a 2nd time, at the point when he was supposed to be crowned he dropped dead - and it is very very unfair to wish someone else evil especially someone you don't know - that is the bring down syndrome, associated with a particular ethnic grouping in nigeria - I am sorry to say this but from the questions they asked during the run up to the elections and town hall and answers that the candidates put forth, it was so obvious they just wanted to come in and continue with the liberalization of our economy - like I said earlier we are not a capitalist economy we run a mixed economy, things that should be privatized are not privatised those that should be are left and as we speak, they are giving us more challenges - further more the amount of lies that those people put forward is highly despicable, why should I trust someone that lies to me about facts that are in the public space i- I refuse to be a fool - they lied on all points and to crown it their campaign was based on "WHAT" have you benefited instead of what have "WE" benefited only a myopic person would not see through the lies, just like women lie to men, and men lie to women, they were in it for what they would benefit- 2ndly the main challenger was the one in charge of the economy and nigeria during obj first term, the idea to liberalize all public institutions which was tagged privatization was muted by him, with the level of failure and the opportunity they had to put this country on the right trajectory and they failed instead they made a handful erastus, ceceila ibru and Co fantastically rich, I refuse to vote for people that also have the clout to tell me to my face that they would empower their friends - for better understanding it means they would empower or sell govt assets to their close friends and foreign interests, as an investment banker by training, and one who was actively monitoring events - the monetization of govt assets started by that candidate I believe it would be stupid for me and anyone I know to vote for that kind of candidate. It's my opinion you are free to have yours but the lower class were the ones that voted this president and not the upper class and where votes really count the power to choose a president largely lies with the millions of those that are in that grouping |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by olajide8(m): 10:42pm On May 28, 2019 |
budaatum: Well in the right world, I should be able to galvanize people with similar opinions like mine, form a party even if we don't win - we should be able to set an agenda- not the kind the sowore set, that is making a whole SAN, executive governor think of planting cannabis instead of proposing policies that would bring the planting of palm trees for Palm oil, which is safer and produces more income then crude oil 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by budaatum: 10:44pm On May 28, 2019 |
olajide8:This is why I'm against your idea of giving government another go at creating SOEs then privatizing them since it's these same people who have no intention of running successful companies who will just strip their assets again! |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by budaatum: 10:47pm On May 28, 2019 |
olajide8:Unfortunately, we live in the 'real world', and not in the "should" or the "right" world where dreams come true. |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by olajide8(m): 10:56pm On May 28, 2019 |
budaatum: Well in the nation's we copy 1+1 is 2, we were even thought in school that 1+1 is 2 and we accepted it, we were also told that when counting from 1 to 20, 16 is less then 19 because you first reach 16 before you get to 19- but a certain group of people decided that they want to turn everything on its head and 16 is greater than 19, are these the same people that should have an opportunity again at the governance of this country, we live and are in the real world, it is just a group of people that have decided to change what is real and make us question our sanity 2 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by budaatum: 11:18pm On May 28, 2019 |
olajide8:You "accepted it"? Really? That's not how I was taught in my school! In my school, they showed me how 1 + 1 = 2, then they taught me how to check that 1 + 1 actually = 2, and then they taught me how to show others that 1 + 1 = 2 if 1 + 1 truly = 2. That's why my world is not a 'should world' perhaps. I so love facts and evidence and not the 'dream world' I cook up in my head. You know what would happen if government sets up SOEs olajide8. In this case, the past, of which we have very clear evidence, is very indicative of the future. The spots of the leopards of whom we speak have not so much changed colour, but gotten bigger as we can very clearly see, and as Lincoln is alleged to have said before some Bush man said it, "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice and I'm just stupid", and I hate being stupid myself. Anyway, thanks for your time. I enjoyed chatting with you, and trust Nigeria go better because good people like you will not ever relent. 1 Like |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by olajide8(m): 6:45am On May 29, 2019 |
budaatum: It was a pleasure 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: If The Country Is To Be Saved by DMathiasen: 8:20pm On May 30, 2019 |
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