Has anyone considered the possibility that the reason why there were so many flood stories in mythologies of most ancient peoples around the globe was because many cataclysmic floods happened at different times in different parts of the globe in the distant past? We need to remind ourselves constantly that almost next to nothing is known about the true history of this planet, by us humans.

@Topic: The answer to your question is right there in Genesis 6.

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The human DNA pool had become corrupted by fallen angels leading to abnormal offspring called---nephilim in the Hebrew; the flood wiped the slate clean.

^^^^^Do Angels fall? Falling from what? Why do they fall? Are they not created pure and their duties to God they take very seriously, without deviation because they do not have a "will" like man and genie?

Aletheia; I miss you. I hope everything is well with you and yours?

Surah Anfal verse 29
O you who believe! If you obey and fear Allah, He will grant you Furqan a criterion [(to judge between right and wrong), or (Makhraj, i.e. making a way for you to get out from every difficulty)], and will expiate for you your sins, and forgive you, and Allah is the Owner of the Great Bounty.


Verse 70:
O Prophet! Say to the captives that are in your hands: "If Allah knows any good in your hearts, He will give you something better than what has been taken from you, and He will forgive you, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."


You see salvation, mercy, forgiveness and guidance, plainly?

aletheia:

@Topic: The answer to your question is right there in Genesis 6.
The human DNA pool had become corrupted by fallen angels leading to abnormal offspring called---nephilim in the Hebrew; the flood wiped the slate clean.

Aletheia, how are you, big bro? This is a thought I have held in a mind-queue for a while now. About the Nephilim. I have pondered the possibility for reproduction between fallen angels and human beings. I wont mind if you shed some more light on that, because my final point on my long though-queue was that it shouldn't be possible, and so maybe the Nephilim were not half demon/angel, half men as is often believed.

Stay blessed!

aletheia:

@Topic: The answer to your question is right there in Genesis 6.
The human DNA pool had become corrupted by fallen angels leading to abnormal offspring called---nephilim in the Hebrew; the flood wiped the slate clean.

No where in the bible does it state that the purpose of the flood was to cleanse the earth of nephilim if you know any part of the bible where such was written you can easily post it. . . . . . From the bible

Gen 6: 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

According to the bible MAN was continually sinning and God regretted ever creating man, NOT nephilim or what ever you are trying to have us believe. . . . . .He then promised to destroy everything including animals as well, were the animals also corrupted by the fallen angels too?. . . .I very much understand your excuse to create or make things up for a story that you fear does not add up when well scrutinized.

Aww, Mazaje. Is that understanding you're showing? You're being very nice.

Those Hot fallen angels must have slept with darn near everybody to require a flood. Plus their standards must not be very high if most everybody fair and beautiful. The DNA things is far out. Personally I think copulation between humans and angels would be impossible and if it was, our gene pool might only have been benefiting.

nopuqeater:

^^^^^Do Angels fall? Falling from what? Why do they fall? Are they not created pure and their duties to God they take very seriously, without deviation because they do not have a "will" like man and genie?

Wasn't Iblis an angel?

nopuqeater:

Aletheia; I miss you. I hope everything is well with you and yours?

^^Thanks for your concern. Been a bit busy due to school work.

^^^^^ nice to know you are okay.


no. iblis, lanatUllah alal kafirin was not an Angel. But a disbelieving Jinn.


Angels are created from light.


Jinn are created from smokeless fire.

Man from admixture of soil and water.


Surah Kahf; verse 50; And (remember) when We said to the angels; "Prostrate to Adam." So they prostrated except Iblis (Satan). He was one of the jinns; he disobeyed the Command of his Lord. Will you then take him (Iblis) and his offspring as protectors and helpers rather than Me while they are enemies to you? What an evil is the exchange for the Zalimun (polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc).

Surah Araf; verses 11 and 12;

7:11 And surely, We created you (your father Adam) and then gave you shape (the noble shape of a human being), then We told the angels, "Prostrate to Adam", and they prostrated, except Iblis (Satan), he refused to be of those who prostrate.

7:12 [ Allah ] said, "What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?" [Satan] said, "I am better than him. You created me from fire and created him from clay."

@Mazaje and Aletheia: « #36 on: Today at 07:34:12 AM »
[Quote]Quote from: aletheia on Today at 01:45:50 AM
@Topic: The answer to your question is right there in Genesis 6.
The human DNA pool had become corrupted by fallen angels leading to abnormal offspring called---nephilim in the Hebrew; the flood wiped the slate clean.

No where in the bible does it state that the purpose of the flood was to cleanse the earth of nephilim if you know any part of the bible where such was written you can easily post it. . . . . . From the bible

Gen 6: 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.[/QUote]While I ignore the rest of verses for personal reason; not willing to upset anyone, especially Aletheia, I just have a serendipity that the sons of god stuff must have set up the protocol for the begotten son title.

Afterall, we now see that the Biblical God has so many sons without anybody eager to identify His consult!

Mazaje; you know if it was asked of Muslims, the answer was just a line in Surah Nuh. You need to enter Islam with full entry, instead of being a shmuck as the yahud say to gentiles.

What does it accomplished? Since you asked the christians and they it would have been better if they had kept quite than the lies they are posting pretending/hoping it will pass for an answer, Islam says it is as a result of the Dua made by prophet Nuh (AS), against disbelievers. That they are punished for their disobedience and refusal to accept guidance. Allah did not leave any disbeliever from the community of Nuh on earth, because of this below from Nuh (AS). Sign of true prophet of God is his dua is always accepted:

71;26 And Nuh (Noah) said: "My Lord! Leave not one of the disbelievers on the earth!



Next post, I will post the entire beutiful Surah. Now you will see this Quran is Superior to any and all Books.

^^^^

What is wrong with this slave of Allah?

SURAH NUH


71:1 Verily, We sent Nuh (Noah) to his people (Saying): "Warn your people before there comes to them a painful torment."

71:2 He said: "O my people! Verily, I am a plain warner to you,

71:3 "That you should worship Allah (Alone), be dutiful to Him, and obey me,

71:4 "He (Allah) will forgive you of your sins and respite you to an appointed term. Verily, the term of Allah when it comes, cannot be delayed, if you but knew."

71:5 He said: "O my Lord! Verily, I have called my people night and day (i.e. secretly and openly to accept the doctrine of Islamic Monotheism).

71:6 "But all my calling added nothing but to (their) flight (from the truth).

71:7 "And verily! Every time I called unto them that You might forgive them, they thrust their fingers into their ears, covered themselves up with their garments, and persisted (in their refusal), and magnified themselves in pride.

71:8 "Then verily, I called to them openly (aloud);

71:9 "Then verily, I proclaimed to them in public, and I have appealed to them in private,

71:10 And said, 'Ask forgiveness of your Lord. Indeed, He is ever a Perpetual Forgiver.

71:11 He will send [rain from] the sky upon you in [continuing] showers

71:12 'And give you increase in wealth and children, and bestow on you gardens and bestow on you rivers."

71:13 What is the matter with you, [that you fear not Allah (His punishment), and] you hope not for reward (from Allah or you believe not in His Oneness).

71:14 While He has created you in (different) stages [i.e. first Nutfah, then 'Alaqah and then Mudghah, see (VV.23:13,14) the Quran].

71:15 See you not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another,

71:16 And made the moon therein a [reflected] light and made the sun a burning lamp?

71:17 And Allah has caused you to grow from the earth a [progressive] growth.

71:18 Then He will return you into it and extract you [another] extraction.

71:19 And Allah has made for you the earth wide spread (an expanse).

71:20 That you may go about therein in broad roads.

71:21 Noah said, "My Lord, indeed they have disobeyed me and followed him whose wealth and children will not increase him except in loss.

71:22 And they conspired an immense conspiracy.

71:23 "And they have said: 'You shall not leave your gods, nor shall you leave Wadd, nor Suwa', nor Yaghuth, nor Ya'uq, nor Nasr (names of the idols);

71:24 "And indeed they have led many astray. And (O Allah): 'Grant no increase to the Zalimun (polytheists, wrong-doers, and disbelievers, etc.) save error."

71:25 Because of their sins they were drowned, then were made to enter the Fire, and they found none to help them instead of Allah.

71:26 And Noah said, "My Lord, do not leave upon the earth from among the disbelievers an inhabitant.

71:27 Indeed, if You leave them, they will mislead Your servants and not beget except [every] wicked one and [confirmed] disbeliever.

71:28 "My Lord! Forgive me, and my parents, and him who enters my home as a believer, and all the believing men and women. And to the Zalimun (polytheists, wrong-doers, and disbelievers, etc.) grant You no increase but destruction!"

#Mazaje; if you find deficiency in it, then say it. This ends the transmitted message, the answer you seek that the christians failed in.

Thank God, I thought there would be a takeover. Thank you Nopuqueater

InesQor:

Aletheia, how are you, big bro? This is a thought I have held in a mind-queue for a while now. About the Nephilim. I have pondered the possibility for reproduction between fallen angels and human beings. I wont mind if you shed some more light on that, because my final point on my long though-queue was that it shouldn't be possible, and so maybe the Nephilim were not half demon/angel, half men as is often believed.

Stay blessed!

^^I'm fine. thanks.

Concerning the possibility of reproduction between fallen angels and human beings. Genesis 6 leaves no doubt about what it describes as having occurred.

Genesis 6:1-2, 4:
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

There is a school of thought that says "sons of God" refers to the descendants of Adam through Seth whilw daughters of men refers to women descended through Cain; but the Bible doesn't bear that out.
In the OT prior to the Advent of Christ, the peculiar construction "sons of God" refers to angelic beings. For examples see:

Job 1: 6:
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them

Job 38:4-7:
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Daniel 3:25:
He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

In Daniel, we see that the phrase refers to angels for reading further down we see:

Daniel 3:28:
Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.

^^Now contrast "sons of God" with "son of man":

Num 23:19:
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Isa 51:12:
I, even I, am he that comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man that shall die, and of the son of man which shall be made as grass;

If you do a concordance search for the phrase "son of man" in the OT; you will find that it every time refers specifically to the earthborn (descendants of Adam) in contrast to angelic beings who are "sons of God". A distinction most clearly brought to the fore in:

Ezek 2:1:
And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee.

Here the heavenly being refers to Ezekiel, by that name.
In the NT the good news of Jesus is that by his Blood we are now adopted into Christ and are now by His finished Work sons of God.

The Bible does not provide details about the mechanics of reproduction between angelic beings and earthly women just merely states that it happened. And this incident is again referenced in the NT in conjuction with the Flood:

2 Pet 2:4,5:
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly

Jude 1:6-7:
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

That the offspring of this unnatural union were no mere or ordinary men is shown by the fact that they are called giants (nephilim). That word "nephilim" comes from the root word nâphal---to fall, be accepted, cast (down, self, [lots], out), cease, die, divide (by lot), (let) fail, (cause to, let, make, ready to) fall (away, down, -en, -ing), fell (-ing) etc

There are those who say the nephilim were men of normal stature who were "giants" by means of their deeds, but please note the phrase: and also after that occurs in Genesis 6. So the question is after when? Turning to the pages of the Bible yields the answers.
When the children of Israel were about to enter Canaan and even afterwards.

Num 13:33:
And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

^^Of course, everyone remembers Goliath; but seemingly forget that there were other giants present as well. Examples:

Deu 3:11:
For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man

In modern terms, thirteen feet long and six feet wide.

@aletheia: Your post has succinctly answered all my questions, and the ones that would have come after, concerning the son of God / son of man thing. I understand now. Thanks a lot, bro!

Certainly a strong case for the Nephilim induced destruction. Ok#Thankyou#Bye lol.

although if God killed off the human race minus Noah's family then I don't see how there can still be giants in the time of Abraham, Joshua and the conquest of Canaan, David and Goliath etc etc

^^^^^^: This AIO guy must be a very interesting Pastor (cough; big time atheist, shayatin inss). If you are not a believer in existence of God (lets leave the christians gods alone for the moment), why call yourself Pastor, at all?



@Aetheia: « #48 on: Today at 04:12:07 AM »
[Quote]Quote from: InesQor on Yesterday at 06:17:29 AM
Aletheia, how are you, big bro? This is a thought I have held in a mind-queue for a while now. About the Nephilim. I have pondered the possibility for reproduction between fallen angels and human beings. I wont mind if you shed some more light on that, because my final point on my long though-queue was that it shouldn't be possible, and so maybe the Nephilim were not half demon/angel, half men as is often believed.

Stay blessed!

^^I'm fine. thanks.

Concerning the possibility of reproduction between fallen angels and human beings. Genesis 6 leaves no doubt about what it describes as having occurred.

Quote from: Genesis 6:1-2, 4
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,[/Quote]The mothers bearing the daughters for the multiplying men were daughters of some mothers and fathers (men and women who were once, especially the women; daughters at some point, before they became wives, bearing the daughters). This verse and what is below are for gullible light weights who do not reflect on what they hear, accepting them without thinking about them.




[Quote]That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.[/Quote]Who were the mothers, hence the consults or consult that bore the sons of God for the God? Quran attacks your premise; That even Angels were creations of God, and not related to Him as father which you make of Him on Jesus, your human god, and by such an extension, though none of you ever have the strength to say it, though implied, but you know it is false premise anyway, Mary as wife of God, being the mother of Jesus. You see why I said that light weights always fall for lies, as long it is packaged right, with pretty wrapping.




[Quote]There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.[/Quote]Unlike God looks like us, with all the inside and outside qualities, if He were to have had a son, or sons, then it is only then that these son or sons will be able to relate with the daughters of men (imagine that! as if there were no men to handle the women among men and they have to import sons of God Who we dont know their mothers; liar). We do know that goat from cattle will never deliver a kid if dog from the canine/wolf family have sex with it. It is similar with the impossibility of monkey ever be able to get human woman pregnant. Why? They are completely different from one another in how the will respond to the sperm, when it gets to it. It will never allow it to penetrate. If it does, the internal mechanism of the egg will kill off this foreign thing.

Let me make it clear to you, Aletheia; When God Almighty created Adam, He could have given him a mate from the creations already in existence, either in heaven or on earth. But He did not do that, for all the reasons Only God Almighty knows. We see however that Eve, was created from the body of Adam, to bring about for Adam his mate, from his own kind. Later when they began to have children, they were not just males that they delivered. They delivered male and female set of children. Each male marrying a female, from his own sisters pool of females, but not the woman he was born with as a twin. This is how mankind started. There were no foreign specie women for the sons of Adam and Eve. There own sisters served the wifey purpose. Even your Bible reports that Abraham and Sarah were from the same father; thats brother and sister. Today it is forbidden to have sexual relation with your own sister, regardless of her being full or half. Even her daughter is forbidden to you.




[Quote]There is a school of thought that says "sons of God" refers to the descendants of Adam through Seth whilw daughters of men refers to women descended through Cain; but the Bible doesn't bear that out.[/Quote]The Bible is deficient in many things. This is one of them, as usual. Even in speaking the truth, she rather lies like a rug outright or bop and weave. And your school of thought were just that; Conjecture.




[Quote]In the OT prior to the Advent of Christ, the peculiar construction "sons of God" refers to angelic beings.[/Quote]This supports my statement, that you guys were much in the guessing game. The school of thoughts are killed here by the above. The above killed itself for lack of evidence.





[Quote]For examples see:

Quote from: Job 1: 6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them[/Quote]What was the purpose of the presentation? Give me a guess work answer. Since you said Angels could be what you call son of God, then look at what you asked me about Iblis, yesterday. See what you Bible half stepped into because it is all from men, while the Quran gives full answer; What God commanded the Angels with Satan, then Iblis in their company to do, when Adam became a living person. Read Surah Baqarah; around verse 40. Read Surah Araf, around verse 20. Read Surah Kahf, verse 49 or 50. The who reason, all the way to the out come, you will find, icluding the make up of Iblis/Satan, different from the make up of the Angels. Iblis was there so that his inner truth as a disbeliever will come to light as Adam was created.




[Quote]Quote from: Job 38:4-7
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Quote from: Daniel 3:25
He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

In Daniel, we see that the phrase refers to angels for reading further down we see:

Quote from: Daniel 3:28
Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.

^^Now contrast "sons of God" with "son of man":[/Quote]We know the mothers of sons of men. She has to be daughters of men. Now tell us the mothers of sons of God? Are the daughters of other gods, or God? Whats their relationship with the Biblical God if they have sons for Him?

I bet you your whole life earning; you will never give a correct answer, because in sincerity, you will have to take Shahadah, right away. There is no sons or son of God. Ever. All are creations of The Very God.




[Quote]Quote from: Num 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?[/Quote]While God will not lie or repent. The Bible writers lie plenty. Even new editions, revisions, versions will not stop the lies, but increase it. My proof; Among others, read the bold; God does not repent. But your Bible said God (Yahweh), repented, regretted creating man. The Quran, verse 36 of Surah Baqarah states that God Almighty announced to the Angels, "I am about to create amnkind as my envoy for the earth". Read further, because before Adam was created, The Creator (Al Qalik) said to the Angels "I know what you do not know".





[Quote]Quote from: Isa 51:12
I, even I, am he that comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a[b] man that shall die[/b], and of the son of man which shall be made as grass;[/QUote]God does not experience death. Ever. All that experience it, any of them, not one of them is God. maybe god in th mind of those who wish to be idolaters, ignorantly.





[Quote]If you do a concordance search for the phrase "son of man" in the OT; you will find that it every time refers specifically to the earthborn (descendants of Adam) in contrast to angelic beings who are [b]"sons of God"[/b]. A distinction most clearly brought to the fore in:
Quote from: Ezek 2:1
And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee.
Here the heavenly being refers to Ezekiel, by that name.
In the NT the good news of Jesus is that by his Blood we are now adopted into Christ and are now by His finished Work sons of God.[/Quote]Before you jump for joy; Jesus was earthborn and a clear descendant of Adam (AS). Tell me if the sons of God were born and their birth mother[s], wive[s] of jewish and christian God, we have to assume, where, or they were created, like all creations, regardless of your mislabel?





[Quote]The Bible does not provide details about the mechanics of reproduction between angelic beings and earthly women just merely states that it happened.[/QUote]Since it didnt happen, just like trinity and others including shady assumption that Isaac was the child taken for the slaughter, the Bible must be silent about it. Its a safety net assured. Just the other day, I read about the Jewish holidays and celebrations and the reasons for them. Two major holidays have reason as mundane as the death of an army general and the Macabee famiy. I was shocked because there is no holiday for the "slaughter of Isaac".

Suddenly, I remember that it is the muslims who have a big holiday for what Ibrahim was about to do with his son, until a ransome was set in the boys place. Why dont the Jews mark this for Isaac, I asked again? It was not Isaac that was brought to the place of sacrifice, which was not the rock (dome of the rock is a mosque), but in Makka and the son was Ismail, a child full of patience and forbearing. You think Old woman Sarah will let Abraham and Yahweh touched her son, whom she did not believe will ever be born? You have another thing coming; Read her personality and you will finally get it.





[Quote] And this incident is again referenced in the NT in conjunction with the Flood:

Quote from: 2 Pet 2:4,5
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly[/Quote]Angels do not sin. They do not have any "will" of their won, like us humans and the jinns. Do animals sin? They are beings of instincts. Already programmed. The only thing your Bible is correct on, in all that you have written is the second bold; A testament to the prophethood of Noah; His Lord allowed him to supplicate. His Lord accepted the supplication. The action began and the disbeievers, evil doing men at that moment were wiped off the face of the earth. Shaitan who is a jinn and his kind, were left alone, as per the already agreed time; The end of time. It is their presence, that in time, when humans regenerated from Noah and those believers who were saved, Shaitan and the Shayatini sowed their deceits, again. And the result is what we have from then till now.





[Quote]Quote from: Jude 1:6-7
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

That the offspring of this unnatural union were no mere or ordinary men is shown by the fact that they are called giants (nephilim). That word "nephilim" comes from the root word nâphal---to fall, be accepted, cast (down, self, [lots], out), cease, die, divide (by lot), (let) fail, (cause to, let, make, ready to) fall (away, down, -en, -ing), fell (-ing) etc

There are those who say the nephilim were men of normal stature who were "giants" by means of their deeds, but please note the phrase: and also after that occurs in Genesis 6. So the question is after when? Turning to the pages of the Bible yields the answers.
When the children of Israel were about to enter Canaan and even afterwards.

Quote from: Num 13:33
And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
^^Of course, everyone remembers Goliath; but seemingly forget that there were other giants present as well. Examples:
Quote from: Deu 3:11
For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man
In modern terms, thirteen feet long and six feet wide.[/Quote]Adam was a giant. This the muslims know. So were the generations of earlier people after him, starting from his children; Imagine the kind of the quantity of meat, food they will be eating, ot the chewing stick to brush their teeth? Ah. There were giant grass eating animals to service such an appetite of 180 ft tall people.

vescucci: LOL

Pastor AIO: The argument was not that the only giants that could exist were the Nephilim, or that there did not arise any other Nephilim afterwards (Im not sure about that). I dont know if you see that point, mahn.

I don't know about other NL folk, but I always scroll right through nopuqeater's posts. Meanwhile with Olabowale, I used to read some of them. No offence but I have little time to spend on NL nowadays.

Quote from mazaje: on September 28, 2010, 04:48 PM

According to the bible men were once so sinful and disobedient to God to the extent that God had to wipe them all off (except for Noah and his family) and started a fresh. . . .So what exactly did the Noah's flood achieve since men continued to sin and be disobedient to the same God very shortly after the flood, to the extent that God according to the bible some times comes down himself to fight and kill the disobedient and sinful men himself? What EXACTLY did the Noah's flood achieve? I am assuming here that the story was real and not fictional. . . . .

"Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.  But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord" -- Genesis 6:5,6

The aim of Noah's Flood is self explanatory from the verse above.  Every human being on the face of the earth had turned after the wickedness in their own hearts, but Noah, because of his righteousness before God, was spared from God's judgment, along with his wife, their sons and their wives as you mentioned in the OP.  Because of the wickedness of men, God sent judgment on all mankind.  As harsh as the destruction was, no living person was without excuse.

God also used the Flood to separate and to purify those who believed in Him from those who didn't.  Throughout history and throughout the Bible, this cycle has taken place again and again, reading the history in the Bible you will see the following pattern; separation, purification, judgment and redemption.  Without God and without a true knowledge and understanding of Scripture which provides the true history of the world, man is doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again.

Quote from vescucci:on September 28, 2010, 08:20 PM

Kai. I'm sorry I just gotta ask. Do you believe in the genealogy from Adam to Christ as depicted in the bible literally?

"The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit" -- 1 Corinthians 15:45

Yes, I do believe the genealogy from Adam to Christ as a literal record. For your information, Adam is a key figure in Scripture.  He is described as the first Adam, the one who brought sin into the world.  He made it necessary for Jesus, the last Adam, to atone for all humans, and then rise from the grave with the promise of complete redemption for fallen man and fallen creation.  If Adam was just a myth as some here believe, we would not be able to fully understand the work of Jesus.

If Adam and Eve were just myths, then we ought to doubt whether their children were myths too, and their children and children's children, and then we ought to doubt the first 11 chapters of Genesis as many are fund of doing here.  All the genealogies accept Adam as being a literal person, so their children Cain and Abel (Genesis 4:9,10; Luke 11:50,51) must be real too.  Jesus was "descended" from Adam, and it is not possible to be descended from a myth.

[img width=500 height=300]http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/media/cartoons/creationwise/CWAdammetaphor.gif[/img]

InesQor:

@aletheia: Your post has succinctly answered all my questions, and the ones that would have come after, concerning the son of God / son of man thing. I understand now. Thanks a lot, bro!

Glad to have been of service, bro. Just to add:

What was the plan of these fallen angels? It was an attempt to block the incarnation of Christ. Remember the prophecy?

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Knowing that the Messiah would come through the woman as a pure (i.e 100% human) descendant of Adam; they attempted to corrupt the human gene pool (DNA) in an effort to prevent this.

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

This attempt surivives in the folk memory as legends and myths of demi-gods like Hercules, Perseus, and Gilgamesh who are described as the offspring of "heavenly beings" and earthborn women.

Generations later, knowing that God was bringing Israel to Canaan as part of his plan of redemption; Satan again seeded the land of Canaan with nephilim, in an attempt to prevent them entering. If you read the encounter between David and Goliath; you will see that it wasn't just a physical battle but an intense supernatural conflict.

The corrupting influence of these fallen angels and their offspring filled the earth with violence and wickedness. For an example of how a completely satanic culture looks like (similar to the Amorite culture of Canaan); please research the Aztec civilization:

Human sacrifice
Archaeologists have discovered many cuneiform cylinder seals of the Assyrian and Babylonish period depicting human sacrifice—although the exact interpretation may be debated. Some also involve cuneiform legal documents containing penalty formulas: ‘,  he will burn his oldest son to Sin, ,  he will burn his oldest daughter to Belit-Seri’ (C. H. W. Johns, Assyrian Deeds and Documents, Cambridge, 1898). ‘… his oldest son he will burn in the sanctuary of the god, Adad’ (Textes Cuneiformes, Vol. IX: Contrats et Letters, edited by G. Contenau, Paris, 1926). ‘… his oldest daughter with ten imer of good spices he will burn to Belit-Seri’ (C. H. W. Johns, Assyrian Deeds and Documents , Cambridge, 1898). These are thought to date from the 7th century B.C,  The legal penalty for the breaking of these contracts was the sacrifice of a firstborn child to one of the pantheon of gods. Through this means, the guilty person paid the penalty and was thought to have atoned for his offence.

One of the texts discovered at the site of the ancient Syrian city of Ugarit in 1978 describes the offering of a human sacrifice with the view to gaining divine favour. The text reads: ‘O Baal, drive away the force from our gates, the aggressor from our walls … A firstborn, Baal, we shall sacrifice—a child we shall fulfil.’ This corroborates the biblical account of King Mesha of Moab who is recorded as having sacrificed his firstborn child on the wall of his city at a time when the Israelites had his city under siege: ‘Then he took his eldest son who would have reigned in his place, and offered him as a burnt offering upon the wall’ (2 Kings 3, NKJ). On seeing this, the Israelites withdrew.

Aztec
The most common form of sacrifice was performed outside, on the top of a great pyramid. The victim was spread-eagled on a round stone, with his back arched. His limbs were held, while a priest used an obsidian knife to cut under the rib cage and remove his heart. This method was used when honoring the sun god, Huitzilopochtli. Each god apparently preferred a different form of sacrifice. For the fertility god Xipe Totec, the person was tied to a post and shot full of arrows. His blood flowing out represented the cool spring rains (Meyer & Sherman:69). The fire god required a newly wed couple. They were thrown into the god's altars and allowed to burn and at the last minute they were taken out and had their hearts removed as a second offering (Hogg :48). The earth mother goddess, Teteoinnan, was extremely important. At harvest time, a female victim was flayed and her skin was carried ceremoniously to one of the temples. Her skin was worn by an officiating priest who then symbolized the goddess herself

That this is what was going on in the antediluvian period is elucidated in Genesis 9:6; Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. Why was this command not explicitly given prior to the Flood despite Cain and Lamech?

Concerning Noah? Let's look at Genesis 6:9:

These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Look at how Noah is described: in three ways.
1. A just man---The is a statement of Noah’s spiritual condition.  “Noah was a just man.” It means God considered him to be righteous.,
2. He walked with God---This statement concerns his relationship with God. “Noah walked with God.”  They were in fellowship,
The Bible describes other just men. It also describes other men who walked with God (e.g Enoch---more on him later), but perfect in his generations?
What does that mean? There is no word or expression in the Bible by accident. They are there for a reason. Why is Noah the only man described in the bible as perfect in his generations.
3. Perfect in his generations---The Hebrew word for generations here is different from the one in the first phrase "These are the generations of Noah". It literally means generations.  The word translated perfect means “without blemish.”  There was no defect in his genealogy.

There’s plenty in Genesis 6-7 to condemn mankind.  After all the Nephilim couldn’t have taken over the world without man’s help, and the Lord did say that every inclination of their heart was evil. (Gen. 6:5).
But man has been in similar spiritual condition for all of his existence.  Something extraordinary happened to cause the Lord to destroy nearly every man and animal in the flood, and that something was Satan’s contamination of the gene pool.  According to God’s Word the Messiah had to be a man.  He couldn’t be an angel or any kind of a hybrid.  Noah carried the uncontaminated human gene across the flood and made it possible for Jesus to be born.

Though not considered part of canon, more light is shed on this events in the Book of Enoch quoted in the book of Jude;

Jude 1:14-15:
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

^The highlighted part is a quote from the book.

Ah. This is getting all confusing and outta my league. I'll rather not comment lest I sound indignant.

@Oladeegbu. Lol, I fully expected you to be the hook, line, sinker and fishing pole type. You're adorable but often wrong.

@vescucci: What's confusing? It looks all very clear to me.

@aletheia: God bless you, bro. It's even much more clear now. Now I see that the ark not only preserved humans, but it preserved the pure human DNA from a filthy generation, not only filthy in spirit but in body. Hmm. . . it also explains how giants like Goliath could return in the Canaan times: there was another infiltration. Just as well, there could very well be such creatures today. Not necessarily in gigantic size, but in a differing physical nature from the Adam archetype.

Thanks once more. This has been enlightening!

@Olaadegbu: « #54 on: Today at 06:18:03 PM »
[Quote]Quote from mazaje: on September 28, 2010, 04:48 PM
Quote
According to the bible men were once so sinful and disobedient to God to the extent that God had to wipe them all off (except for Noah and his family) and started a fresh. . . .So what exactly did the Noah's flood achieve since men continued to sin and be disobedient to the same God very shortly after the flood, to the extent that God according to the bible some times comes down himself to fight and kill the disobedient and sinful men himself? What EXACTLY did the Noah's flood achieve? I am assuming here that the story was real and not fictional. . . . .


"Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord" -- Genesis 6:5,6[/Quote]This is a Lord that did not know everything is the introduction of the "Then". Subhannallah. Allah the Almighty is Superior, and truly He is the Only God in existence. Olaadegbu, read the Quran. You will not see anywhere Allah is surprised, but has foreknowledge of all acts.



[Quote]The aim of Noah's Flood is self explanatory from the verse above. Every human being on the face of the earth had turned after the wickedness in their own hearts, but Noah, because of his righteousness before God, was spared from God's judgment, along with his wife, their sons and their wives as you mentioned in the OP. Because of the wickedness of men, God sent judgment on all mankind. As harsh as the destruction was, no living person was without excuse.[/Quote]Noah was not the only man that survived the flood. Oh. I remember. In the Bible he was, with his daughters. So he had to be gotten drunk by the wayward women who performed incest with their father. Just imagine if Yahweh knew that these women would do this to their father, after the flood. Would it have been better to wipe them off, and let some women who were just as wicked, but not from Noah's loin do the same thing with him? What happened to his wife (Am laughing at the Biblical scholars who didnt see the people of Muhammad (AS) will show them their swiss cheess full of hole arguments)? Sleeping with a bad woman or wife is better than sleeping with bad daughters. By the way, since the daughters were not all together, is that why we have overdone people (Blacks) and undercooked people (White); this joke was from Bishop Desmond Tutu.




[Quote]God also used the Flood to separate and to purify those who believed in Him from those who didn't. Throughout history and throughout the Bible, this cycle has taken place again and again, reading the history in the Bible you will see the following pattern; separation, purification, judgment and redemption. Without God and without a true knowledge and understanding of Scripture which provides the true history of the world, man is doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again.[/Quote]Going by your argument, how did God of the Bible accomplish this, when the outcome is daughters drunk to dull his fatherly instinct s that they can have sex with him? Is this a good purification, in your own view? Now see what God did when it came to Lut. Tell me how badly the Noah episode with his daughters sound in your heart.

@Olaadegbu: « #55 on: Today at 06:32:21 PM »
[Quote]Quote from vescucci:on September 28, 2010, 08:20 PM
Quote
Kai. I'm sorry I just gotta ask. Do you believe in the genealogy from Adam to Christ as depicted in the bible literally?


"The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit" -- 1 Corinthians 15:45[/Quote]Made
; Paul said to the Corinthians. Made is created. Dont forget that. When we in Islam say to you Jesus is created by his Lord God Almighty Creator Who sent him as a servant to his people, you are quick to dismiss it. But even Paul knew Eloi created Jesus. Now you know.



[Quote]Yes, I do believe the genealogy from Adam to Christ as a literal record. For your information, Adam is a key figure in Scripture. He is described as the first Adam, the one who brought sin into the world. He made it necessary for Jesus, the last Adam, to atone for all humans, and then rise from the grave with the promise of complete redemption for fallen man and fallen creation. If Adam was just a myth as some here believe, we would not be able to fully understand the work of Jesus.

If Adam and Eve were just myths, then we ought to doubt whether their children were myths too, and their children and children's children, and then we ought to doubt the first 11 chapters of Genesis as many are fund of doing here. All the genealogies accept Adam as being a literal person, so their children Cain and Abel (Genesis 4:9,10; Luke 11:50,51) must be real too. Jesus was "descended" from Adam, and it is not possible to be descended from a myth.[/Quote]MashaAllah to you Olaadegbu. You finally learnt something. I ask the All knower to impact the truth into your heart. someday, before you die, you will make sujjud to the Almighty Who is deserving of all Sajada.

InesQor. I find it very very unlikely that some Hot angels fornicated with humans. If they did, why don't they continue to do so since after the flood. I don't wanna sound like a cynic but I just don't like when we accept speculation proceeding from little proof

InesQor:

I don't know about other NL folk, but I always scroll right through nopuqeater's posts. Meanwhile with Olabowale, I used to read some of them. No offence but I have little time to spend on NL nowadays.

Not only you. Me too, big time. Although he caught my eye further up by putting my name in the first line of his post. I don't mind reading rubbish as long as it is well written. I used to enjoy Olabowale's rhetoric but with this guy his prose just keeps getting worse.