Nihilist:


Oh what a time...

...to be alive


Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls, it's Friday Night Carnage!!!!

Let there be BLOOD!!!!

A40:

If that coprophiliac suffering FaggötDemola does not jump into Ogunpa River today then my name is not A-40

Nihilist:
I dont think Dadehmola is interested in continuing hostilities
Thats a shame.

raumdeuter:


Looks like spambot slammed A40 on the Chelsea thread. I see he was the last poster on the Chelsea thread but his post was hidden

A40:


Jupp overperformed with that 2011/2012 team. Our bench was DVB, Olic, Usami, Tymoschuk, Nils Petersen and sometimes Müller who was having his worst season yet.

Alaba was not even 20. Boateng and Badstuber were 23 and 22 respectively

Yes he won nothing but did not finish worse than 2nd. Pep with a more talented side is getting his a$s handed to him and I'm expected to applaud?

When he beats Atleti and gets to the Final I will give him some credit

Nihilist:
But what has Pep really done sef?
Like we've seen after he left, any donkey off the street can replicate his success at Barcelona.
The tiki-taka philosophy is instilled from an early age at la-masia, and most of the members of that team are la-masia including pep himself...

OK so he kept Xavi, moved Messi inside, promoted Busquets..but an argument could be made that being a la masia insider, he was more intimately acquainted with the original Barca/Cruyff philosophy than say LVG and Rijkaard, and thus in a better position to identify la masia graduates that would fit the philosophy.

With the array of world class talent at his disposal at Barca, should we even be lauding his 'achievements'? I mean Messi is clearly a freak of nature...

At Bayern, Pep once again has access to the best players in the world, but is competing in a one horse league. Can we genuinely expect anything less than domestic clean sweeps from Bayern with that squad? especially with their tendencies to cannibalise their closest competition

Why does pep keep failing in Europe when he faces competition that is either at par or slightly superior to his squad?

Is Pep really that much of a genius at all?

Compare to Jose who has won UCL TWICE in thr capacity of an underdog.

Oya Barca boys - sebod dmcdad homesteady fall in. BAYERN boys, you too.

raumdeuter:


Pep 4 years in Barca won 2 CL titles, lost 2 Semis. Post Pep Barca has won 1 CL title failed semi once and quarter finals twice with a swuad you can even argue was more talented than what Pep had. That is what Pep added to Barcelona

If a coach can consistently reach 7 straight CL semi, how many coaches reach that all their career. From semi onwards you need a lot of luck because all teams are equally matched Pep has played 5 semi matches with Bayern, the only result that is odd is losing 0-4 to madrid

Other results Are not unusual given the circumstances of both teams at the time of the match

With the array of talents at Barcelona they didnt win any treble before he got there, they were trophyless before he got there, they finished 18points behind the league winner before he got there he brought in a brand of football that awed everyone, the brand of football that won several CL, Euro cups and world cup Thats what Pep has contributed to football. In the last 20yrs no other coach has had that impact on the game

Bayern faced Peps team in 2008, After the match Our executives said, I would wish to build a team that plays like this in Munich

City started a project and their objective was to play like Barcelona, they got Txiki and Soriano but are not satisfied they want the man behind it Pep

Roman bought Chelsea and despite the wins he clearly said he wanted to win a certain way

No coach has influenced the way football is played in the past 20yrs like Pep has done, There is a reason many team directors want to play like he does because he not only wins, he dominates and win with swagga.

How many big teams would you see that would say I want to win by parking the bus or playing the Mourinho way, Its sweet when you are an underdog and suckerpunch a bigger team that way but when you spend money you want to win in a good way

Two students get A, One gets 100-A one gets 71-A, though both got A's but there is a difference with the person who got 100-A. if you send your kid to school and spend good money on him you would want him to get 100-a rather than 71-A

pep built the best team in history and a man with two champion league medal

Like we've seen after he left, any donkey off the street can replicate his success at Barcelona.

The tiki-taka philosophy is instilled from an early age at la-masia, and most of the members of that team are la-masia including pep himself...

OK so he kept Xavi, moved Messi inside, promoted Busquets..but an argument could be made that being a la masia insider, he was more intimately acquainted with the original Barca/Cruyff philosophy than say LVG and Rijkaard, and thus in a better position to identify la masia graduates that would fit the philosophy

With the array of world class talent at his disposal at Barca, should we even be lauding his 'achievements'? I mean Messi is clearly a freak of nature...

At Bayern, Pep once again has access to the best players in the world, but is competing in a one horse league. Can we genuinely expect anything less than domestic clean sweeps from Bayern with that squad? especially with their tendencies to cannibalise their closest competition

Why does pep keep failing in Europe when he faces competition that is either at par or slightly superior to his squad?

Is Pep really that much of a genius at all?

Compare to Jose who has won UCL TWICE in thr capacity of an underdog.

afrodoc2:
Wetin be all this VMAs wey Nihilist and A40 dey talk? Abeg make una cause confusion here o

To the argument, Pep is a very good coach but his achievements have led to him being vastly overrated .
If you give Alex Ferguson or Ottmar Hitzfeld or the young Arrigo Sacchi that Barca team (with Messi,Xavi,Iniesta and Busquets all together and all at their peaks supported at different times by Zlatan,Henry,Ronaldinho and Etoo) those other coaches would have done the same or even more. Just my personal opinion

Nihilist:
Raumdeuter, as you well know, Pep got rid of most of the Barca 'superstars' and instead focused on la masia graduates.

La Masia graduates who happened to be:

1. Already schooled in a philosophy that Pep did not invent(or arguably even finetune)

2. The majority of these players are/were the best in the world at their positions, with one of them a candidate for GOAT.

So an argument could be made that Pep was merely a passenger,overseeing world class players in a philosophy and tactical framework that they had spent their entire careers learning...

We saw Donkey Enrique replicate Pep's success at first attempt, and I doubt that anyone will rush to crown Luis a tactical genius.

So what I'm saying to you is that Pep has only ever won when he had the better team. He achieved global domination with a Barca team that was the best on the planet. He achieved domestic dominance with a Bayern team that is the best in the league.

At Barca, he never really faced superior opposition. With Bayern he is facing commensurate or superior opposition. At Barca he triumphed, at Bayern he is thus far a relative failure.

Compare and contrast with Jose winning with relatively underdogs, and tell me what Pep has really done...

afrodoc2:
Wetin be all this VMAs wey Nihilist and A40 dey talk? Abeg make una no cause confusion here o

To the argument, Pep is a very good coach but his achievements have led to him being vastly overrated .
If you give Alex Ferguson or Ottmar Hitzfeld or the young Arrigo Sacchi that Barca team (with Messi,Xavi,Iniesta and Busquets all together and all at their peaks supported at different times by Zlatan,Henry,Ronaldinho and Etoo) those other coaches would have done the same or even more. Just my personal opinion

Nihilist:

Forget those names you mentioned there. Those names are too big sef.
They gave the team to Donkey Enrique,and he achieved the same at first attempt!

raumdeuter:


Getting rid of superstars(Ronaldino, Deco) and hoping on untested players(Pique, Busquets) or players that have been written off(Xavi) is a very risky venture.


Its like City having a poor season they hire their youth team coach who comes gets rid of Yaya Toure, Aguero and Kompany Promotes Adarabioyo and Faupala and Iheanacho change their brand of football entirely and win sextuple by December 2017. Would you say that youth manager was a passenger in the City win?

These same players you said Pep inherited were there when the team was finishing trophyless and 18points behind league leaders

After Pep, Barcelona has crashed out of the quarter finals twice which they never did in Pep 4 years

At barcelona he didnt get a better team, he made them better, He made Xavi better, he made Iniesta better, he made messi better he made Busquets better he made pedro better, Without him all of them probably would never reach the level they are Messi would probably be an unfilfilled 13goals a season winger, Xavi would have been sold and probably retired earlier, etc

At the beginning of 2008/2009 season would you say emphatically that barca would win the La liga? So how do you mean he never faced superior opposition?

Winning with underdogs is one thing, winning as a top dog is another thing. Mourinho has tasted both sides and he was sacked from the two clubs where he was top dog

Nihilist:
Pelvicky let's not slow down this debate. Everything you posted there has already been addressed in my post.

Villanova won the league at first attempt in his very first managerial stint. He won it from the sick bay too.

Messi went to bring a coach from his old club in Argentina. In his first managerial stint in Europe, Tata still managed to with a Spanish cup and only lost tesco league on the last day of the season.

Then Donkey Enrique showed up and won was it the sextuple athe first attempt?

4 managers came and went, while the team stayed largely constant.

Are we to conclude that Barca has now had 4 back to back tactical geniuses that are able to win stuff at first attempt, despite a lack of precedent elsewhere in their careers?

Are we to believe that these managers are somehow unlucky, in the way that not a single one of them has been able to replicate their success elsewhere?

Or could it be, that that Barca team is so good that a manager is superfluous?

afrodoc2:
You have made good points. Especially about his vision in shifting Messi inside and getting rid of Etoo on the second attempt.
He is definitely a good coach like I conceded but we have to also concede that he was dealt a great hand by destiny with quality players he had at his disposal.

raumdeuter:


Getting rid of superstars(Ronaldino, Deco) and hoping on untested players(Pique, Busquets) or players that have been written off(Xavi) is a very risky venture.


Its like City having a poor season they hire their youth team coach who comes gets rid of Yaya Toure, Aguero and Kompany Promotes Adarabioyo and Faupala and Iheanacho change their brand of football entirely and win sextuple by December 2017. Would you say that youth manager was a passenger in the City win?

These same players you said Pep inherited were there when the team was finishing trophyless and 18points behind league leaders

After Pep, Barcelona has crashed out of the quarter finals twice which they never did in Pep 4 years

At barcelona he didnt get a better team, he made them better, He made Xavi better, he made Iniesta better, he made messi better he made Busquets better he made pedro better, Without him all of them probably would never reach the level they are Messi would probably be an unfilfilled 13goals a season winger, Xavi would have been sold and probably retired earlier, etc

At the beginning of 2008/2009 season would you say emphatically that barca would win the La liga? So how do you mean he never faced superior opposition?

Winning with underdogs is one thing, winning as a top dog is another thing. Mourinho has tasted both sides and he was sacked from the two clubs where he was top dog

raumdeuter:




I disagree. None of them would play Messi a 5ft8 tall winger, centrally where you would get the best out of him, None of them would play to dominate play with 75% possesion

Busquets would probably have been overlooked by most of those managers

Peps Barcelona is being regarded as one of the greatest teams of all time, Maybe only Sacchi ACMilan among those you mentioned would lay claims to such . I mean win and be dominant like Barcelona was

Nihilist:
Its only risky to non-insiders.
Messi was already voted the 2nd best player in the world at 2007. Pep didn't take over till 2008.
So what's the risk of pushing a a former young world best player of the year, and golden boy into three middle?
Messi is playing on the right these days to accommodate Suarez and still banging double digits goals and assists
Can you honestly say that Messi would flop in any attacking position on the pitch?
Unless you want to give Pep credit for Messi's prodigious talent.
Pep was lucky to be at Barca at a time when a particularly deadly crop of players had come out.
That's why everybody doubts pep, because his UCLs have been won with Barca, which as we have seen is an easily replicable feat for any manager.
So what has he really done?

afrodoc2:
Another thing I want to state here. I have been telling my friends for months now that this Barca team is inferior to Pep's Barca team.

Nihilist:
Messi was not a '14 goal winger' before pep.

He was the 2nd best player in the world.