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Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar - Religion (1) - Nairaland

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Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 12:32pm On Nov 10, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

As we raise ourselves in the spiritual consciousness, we are better able to solve the problems of life. We are happy. We are at home in every environment.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 6:37pm On Nov 11, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

The Holy Spirit will give us all that we need. First we must learn to expect the best in life, and be willing to plan and work for it. Second, we need a clear mental picture of what we desire. Third, this picture is to be maintained constantly, with the certainty that Divine Spirit will supply any rightful desire. Fourth, there must be gratitude for every good thing received.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 8:33pm On Nov 12, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

When you work with the fullness of heart, the golden heart, you find things are being done right you never realized were being done right. This occurs when there is balance and you have the perception to see the true value of things that come into your life.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by enitan2002(m): 12:37am On Nov 13, 2010
Hinduism/Buddhism had offered me something better than this before i got on the right path. its when your time has finally arrived and you stepped into the beyond without the protection of your physical body, you'll get to learn that all these strenous exercises have nothing beneficial but harm.
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 8:15pm On Nov 14, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

This is how we work with Divine Spirit. We try to look at life and find the laughter wherever we can, whenever we can, because laughter is the healer.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 5:49pm On Nov 15, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

As you grow in spirituality, your whole life must improve.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 7:40pm On Nov 16, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

Mercy and compassion are two very important qualities, but love is the greatest of all.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 2:09pm On Nov 17, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

When you ask the Holy Spirit for healing, you must open your spiritual eyes and ears to watch for and listen to how the Divine Force is bringing about a change for you.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 7:10pm On Nov 19, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

You cannot measure spirituality by the number of bad habits you have or not. Nor by a certain number of experiences. Awareness of the moment and a joy for living can also be an indication of where you are spiritually.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 10:43pm On Nov 20, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

Soul, a particle of God, is blessed with the gift of creative imagination, which finds a solution for every problem.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 3:54pm On Nov 21, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

Our freedom stops where someone else’s starts. This line is called responsibility.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 1:00pm On Nov 22, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

Spirit will begin to heal only if you are willing to first help yourself.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 8:13pm On Nov 23, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

Truth becomes more sublime for an individual who develops in himself the capacity to give more compassion and love to all creatures.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by Nobody: 12:45am On Nov 24, 2010
As much as I like your seed of contemplation, I think we should discuss rationally.

Someone has told that you don't need extraneous aid to go into the beyond; when your time arrives (when your physical body dies), we are then permitted to

enter. What do have to say about this?

Personally, I am very cautious in this kind matter, my soul will not be used to experiment the validity of any religion. The questions I have for you are as follows:

1) Eckankar talks much about the Mahanta; I want you to explain why we need him. Is he greater than all other Masters past and present (Jesus inclusive)?

2) Soul travel. Is it not a form of hallucination where the indivdual thinks he is on other planes, where in reality these planes are created only out of his thinking?
For example, a Rosicrucian can travel to the so-called astral plane and will give a very different account of the happenings from the ECKists who does the same.
The Rosicrucian will probably see the great Masters of his tradition, Rose-Cross symbols and all the essentails of his religion while the ECKist will recount the beautiful ECK Temples, ECK Masters, Mahanta and the like. Does it not occur to you that this places are formed out of the collective thoughts of adherents and Masters alike (what is called Egregore in Rosicrucianism). The HU sound, is not a special vowel with the ability to alter the balance of the soul and body, so as to enable the individual experience this pseudo-planes (something like virtual reality)? The individual will be lead to believe he is actually experiencing reality while he does't know that he is the only one alive there and all others are formed because of the radiating power from him through the channel of thoughts.
Never underestimate your thoughts, you can fall into traps.

Answer these.
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 11:18am On Nov 24, 2010
@ agi-tuedor


As much as I like your seed of contemplation, I think we should discuss rationally.

Someone has told that you don't need extraneous aid to go into the beyond; when your time arrives (when your physical body dies), we are then permitted to

enter. What do have to say about this?

what you have to know is that any time you are asleep, the real you, soul, leaves the physical body temporarily to enter the dream worlds or the inner planes to have experiences there and when it is done it comes back into the physical body and you then wake up.
the places you go to when you are asleep is where you will end up when you die. so you can see sleep as a temporary death. the only problem is that most times you go into the dream worlds through sleep you do it unconsciously.
through soul travel you can consciously enter these inner planes and explore them and come back with your experiences intact. when your time finally comes you simply shed the physical body and step in boldly into the heavenly worlds to continue your experiences.



Personally, I am very cautious in this kind matter, my soul will not be used to experiment the validity of any religion. The questions I have for you are as follows:

1) Eckankar talks much about the Mahanta; I want you to explain why we need him. Is he greater than all other Masters past and present (Jesus inclusive)?

The mahanta is actually the Holy Spirit of God using a human form which is the Living Eck Master to which you can easily relate to. The Mahanta is also known as the Inner Master. He is the being that guides and protects you in the inner planes. He is also a teacher of the divine mysteries of God.
The method He uses is enabling you to walk the path of experience he himself has walked. We need him just like you need a teacher on earth to teach you how to become a Doctor, an engineer, an accountant etc. this is an individual who has reached the heart of God and is now offering to help you make the journey too so that you can experience God for yourself. he makes it easier because he has traveled the road and he knows the bad spots and the good spots on the road.

in terms of being greater than other masters such does not arise because among the masters there is really no competition.
what you have is specialization. each master is specialized in one aspect of God knowledge or the other.
and each soul is being trained to become a master in its own right in any field of its chosing. just like in a university setting will you say that a professor of medicine is greater that a professor of geography?
you may be surprised that the spiritual worlds structure does not differ much from what you have on earth. as above so below. it is only followers of religious masters that fight amongsts themselves claiming superiority. the role of the Mahanta is to take ready souls back to God and until you are ready you will never understand this role.
that does not diminish the importance of other religions like for example a religion like christianity gives you a very good grounding in morality and love for your neighbors. therefore no master is greater than the other, all are simply working for the divine cause in their own unique ways.



2) Soul travel. Is it not a form of hallucination where the indivdual thinks he is on other planes, where in reality these planes are created only out of his thinking?

definitely no. soul travel is not a form of hallucination. it is a natural means of a soul using it innate quality of omnipresence to have experiences on planes that are not within the range of physical senses.
unfortunately i can not prove it to you as you have to experience it yourself for you to know whether it is hallucination or not. i have a lot of soul travel experiences to know that it is real. and some members of my family who are not Eckists can attest to that.
i once had a soul travel experience and in that experience i saw my uncle seriously ill and was planning to leave the physical body. i was very far away and the man is old and does not have a phone. i had to call my sister and told her what i saw and told her to go to the village immediately. she went there and confirmed what i saw and the man was given medical care and he recovered.
this is just a tip of the iceberg. soul travel is also expansion of awareness. that means you are able to become aware of situations or events or places which ordinary senses can not attune to.



For example, a Rosicrucian can travel to the so-called astral plane and will give a very different account of the happenings from the ECKists who does the same.
The Rosicrucian will probably see the great Masters of his tradition, Rose-Cross symbols and all the essentails of his religion while the ECKist will recount the beautiful ECK Temples, ECK Masters, Mahanta and the like. Does it not occur to you that this places are formed out of the collective thoughts of adherents and Masters alike (what is called Egregore in Rosicrucianism).

to explain the above is very simple. as i told you as above so below. just like on earth you have continents, countries, towns, cities etc likewise these structures also exist on the astral plane, causal planes etc. some one visiting the astral plane can go to town A and another person will go to town B. so there is no way they can report seeing the same thing. and of course you will gravitate to the area that is of interest to you. the inner worlds for example the astral plane is so vast and much bigger than the physical plane of which earth is just a tiny dot. i can assure you that in the astral plane every religion have their own unique regions. there are christian fellowships going on in the astral plane. and there are churches and mosques there too. definitely if i soul travel there is no way i will go to a church in the astral plane because it holds no interest to me so of course i will look for the nearest Eck Temple to learn from an Eck Master.

i also understand where your problem is in terms of those areas being just creations of thoughts. what you are forgetting is that thoughts are real. because you are on earth that concept may be difficult for you to understand. so let me give you an example. if you want to build a house first of all it must take root in you as thoughts. you have to sit down and think about how you are going to build the house. you will think about who you are going to involve in the building of the house. without those thinking processes you and i know that the house will not manifest.
likewise in the inner planes thoughts are the building blocks of every thing you see. it has to start as a thought and then solidify to reality. that means you can create an area of residence for yourself in the inner planes and it will be real there. it does not mean that it is an illusion or hallucination. you have the power at any time to say you do not want the house again or that you want a new house. you have the power to create both here on earth and in the inner worlds. as above so below.




The HU sound, is not a special vowel with the ability to alter the balance of the soul and body, so as to enable the individual experience this pseudo-planes (something like virtual reality)? The individual will be lead to believe he is actually experiencing reality while he does't know that he is the only one alive there and all others are formed because of the radiating power from him through the channel of thoughts.

The HU sound is the universal sound of God. it is the originator of all sounds. what the HU does is to awaken the real you, soul. it opens your spiritual eyes and your spiritual ears to see and hear the light and sound of God.
the whole universes of God was created out of the fabric of the light and sound. the higher the heaven or plane the purer and finer the light you will see and the sound you hear on that plane. in ECKANKAR, we simply present what we know about God and the inner planes to you and we give you the key to access those inner worlds for yourself. the rest is up to you. there is no compulsion and there is no hurry.



Never underestimate your thoughts, you can fall into traps.

the worst trap that soul can fall into is the trap of ignorance. that is not knowing who and what you are and what you are capable of achieving. apart from that there really is no problem.

if you have further questions i will be happy to give my little input.
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by Nobody: 10:38pm On Nov 24, 2010
@benodic

You spoke about ignorance being the worst trap, I quite agree, and you are right to say I have some problems with thoughts. Really I do not deny the existence of these planes but I want to understand the nature of there existence. Which lies in the collective thoughts of humans. So, it shows that these worlds are not directly instituted by God but merely an extension of human desires, passions, pressumptions and even ignorance. That also means that if humanity collectively changes itself (desires, etc), these changes will also be reflected in these worlds ( this shows how transient and unreliable this worlds can be). The beautiful landscapes, the enthralling Temples will just wither away for lack of refreshing power. This explains why if you doubt these planes who will not experience them.

You (ECKANKAR) teach that God is to be found by roaming in such unreliable planes of illussions (no matter how real they might appear). Is "God-Realization" to be found by covering inner space? Listen, the recognition of God resides in the human spirit and in from remote inner kingdom of Masters and magical entities. These Masters are trapped just as their followers, they cannot see the difference between real and false; their power lies in their ability to conciously use ther minds (which is a tool, anyway) to create whatever they want to create. These creations exixsts only in their conciousness and those who share in their creations.

This whole universe is a labyrinth created in the conciousness of man. Even the essence of the physical plane cannot be discerned in the eyes because you eyes only perceives it reflections which is a result of its' movement and not the essential power permeating it.

The greatest obstacle is the obstacle created by your own mind
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 12:22am On Nov 25, 2010
@ agi-tuedor


You spoke about ignorance being the worst trap, I quite agree, and you are right to say I have some problems with thoughts. Really I do not deny the existence of these planes but I want to understand the nature of there existence. Which lies in the collective thoughts of humans. So, it shows that these worlds are not directly instituted by God but merely an extension of human desires, passions, pressumptions and even ignorance. That also means that if humanity collectively changes itself (desires, etc), these changes will also be reflected in these worlds ( this shows how transient and unreliable this worlds can be). The beautiful landscapes, the enthralling Temples will just wither away for lack of refreshing power. This explains why if you doubt these planes who will not experience them.

to understand these inner worlds you have to have an idea of spiritual geography. the God worlds are divided into two major divisions. you have the lower worlds which comprises of the etheric plane, mental plane, causal plane, astral plane and finally the physical plane. these worlds are the world of duality in which you have good and bad, positive and negative, spirit and matter in various compositions. these worlds were created by God as schools for the souls It created. these worlds are the worlds of illusion were all is not what it seems and where the mind can create and uncreate. above the lower worlds you have the higher worlds or the pure heavens where there is no duality. all is one. it starts from the soul plane and reaches the ocean of love and mercy. in these worlds there is no matter and mind. for you to access these worlds you have to drop the mind as an instrument of perception. only soul in its pure state can access these higher worlds. here all illusions created by the mind ceases and you come face to face with the ultimate reality.



You (ECKANKAR) teach that God is to be found by roaming in such unreliable planes of illussions (no matter how real they might appear). Is "God-Realization" to be found by covering inner space? Listen, the recognition of God resides in the human spirit and in from remote inner kingdom of Masters and magical entities. These Masters are trapped just as their followers, they cannot see the difference between real and false; their power lies in their ability to conciously use ther minds (which is a tool, anyway) to create whatever they want to create. These creations exixsts only in their conciousness and those who share in their creations.

God-Realization is not found within the worlds of illusion as i explained above. as you grow spiritually you will come to a realization that the mind is simply a tool that soul uses to experience life in the lower worlds. when soul has completed it lessons in the lower worlds it then moves up into the higher worlds of God and there it no longer needs the mind because it has come to a full realization of who and what It is.


This whole universe is a labyrinth created in the conciousness of man. Even the essence of the physical plane cannot be discerned in the eyes because you eyes only perceives it reflections which is a result of its' movement and not the essential power permeating it.

The greatest obstacle is the obstacle created by your own mind

you are actually right in the fact that the greatest obstacle is the obstacle created by the our own mind. when soul came into the lower worlds it allowed the mind to take over and start controlling it when it should be the other way round. the battle for the returning soul is to be able to see through the illusions created by the mind. when you are able to focus on the light and sound of God you will find that gradually over time the mind starts loosing its grip on you.
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by Nobody: 2:18am On Nov 25, 2010
Exactly, "see through the illussions of the mind". Isn't that what I have being saying since? That these planes are illussions of the mind, which in reality should not exist? Then why do you guys (ECKANKAR) teach others to believe that they are actually experiencing reality when it is only the illussion of the mind? Mind or intellect is only the product of material existence and has not spiritual value. It is the ability of the spirit (in your case, the soul) to intuitively absorb the essence of creation and master its holy laws that is of spiritual values. Not clairvoyance, telepathy, soul travel, prophecy and other metaphysical stunts. These are mind games, psychic (not spiritual). Interesting as they are in themselves, they are completely useless to humanity as a whole (spiritual wise).

These abilities have their place of course (if not, the Creator woundn't have allowed their existence), but they are just abilities. They can stifled you when you use them ignorantly (as happens mostly) or point to the way (very rare, today) of the eternal laws.

So, my brother I guess we are on the same page. Try not to believe your mind too much because as vast as it can be it is very limited compared to the spiritual impulse flowing in and around you. Thanks.
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 1:48pm On Nov 25, 2010
@ agi-tuedor

thanks a lot for your wonderful insight. even though you are very right in your submission you have to realize that before you can reach those spiritual heights you are talking about you have to pass through the intermediate stages which include being able to see through the illusions that the mind throws up.

it is not possible to just jump straight to the ultimate reality without going through the unreality. then you will not know the difference. that is why God allowed the lower worlds to be the way it is. it is now up to us to make the effort to grow beyond the mind and embrace the ultimate reality.
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by Nobody: 9:29pm On Nov 25, 2010
@benodic
Once again we are on the same page. We should strive to undo the illussions we created, not to revel in them and think we are advanced. By so doing, we only reinforce the power of our illussion. So many seekers have got lost in these planes.

I am an advocate of immediate intuitve perception of ultimate reality. We do not need these "lowers worlds" in a certain sense. Ingrained in us is our ability to perceive here and now ultimate reality, we just need to use it. Ultimate reality exists here and now, we can not percieve it with our objective ir even psychic senses nor can it be unraveled in covering "inner space". Go within and trust in the intuition, you are already there. It just takes "time" to manifest physically (due to heaviness of material substance)

I will not be replying on this topic again, cos I think we have exhausted everything and arrived on a simple thesis.
Thanks.
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 8:17pm On Nov 29, 2010
@ agi-tuedor

thanks a lot for your contributions. i am very grateful
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 3:20pm On Nov 30, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

Those with pure love do all they can to let their mates grow in every way. Detached love means to let others exist without forcing our will upon them. That is spiritual love.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 12:13pm On Dec 01, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

We must learn to be totally responsible for all our actions, our deeds, and our thoughts.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 11:11am On Dec 03, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

Begin with the love you have. Love gratefully. This love expands your heart into a greater vessel which can hold yet more love.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 6:24pm On Dec 04, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

When you ask God, "Please show me truth," and you haven’t used your talents today, you can’t expect to find the greater talents, the greater truth, tomorrow.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 10:17pm On Dec 05, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

It’s a pleasure to be around someone who’s shining with the Light of God. People don’t always understand what’s going on, or why this person is drawing them toward him. But there’s something special there.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 2:03pm On Dec 06, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

Few realize that a deep love for God also implies a love for learning.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 2:30pm On Dec 08, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

When something goes wrong in your life, there is usually a spiritual reason for it. Divine Spirit is trying to teach you something about truth.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 11:35pm On Dec 09, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

Those living the high spiritual life are the knowers, not believers. There is a world of difference between knowing and believing.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 11:23am On Dec 11, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

Divine Spirit opens up new opportunities, but we must take them. We must make our own choices with the best information at hand.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 9:05pm On Dec 15, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

It’s quite a discipline when we’re in trouble to think of God and say, "I need some help."

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by benodic: 4:52pm On Dec 17, 2010
A Seed for Contemplation

Divine Spirit often begins working for our welfare after we have made some small effort first.

The love and protection of Spirit surround you at all times but must be accepted with a loving heart.

—Harold Klemp
The Language of Soul

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