~Bluetooth:

What is good about a system that enrichs only a few elites at the detriment of the poor.Capitalism started from feudalism and it's now a modern slavery in the contemporary age ! No wonder marx was bitterly hated for canvassing for a classless state.

Gamine:

It's weird this comes up now, having a discussion with my uncle on this, just hours ago. (Comm Vs Cap) ism
MY opinion, Capitalism is Evil, Making Man worse than he already was.

Everything else I wanted to say, has been said! at this point

Just tell me one communist country you know. There exists none!

ola olabiy:

Just tell me one communist country you know. There exists none!

There are three; China (even though it practices state capitalism), North Korea, and Cuba.

One variable often overlooked in the debate about the merits and demerits of a free market system is the effect the internet is having on globalisation.

The baby boomer generation long lauded the benefits of capitalism which brought them the middle class lifestyle. What the internet did was expose the fact that the capitalism which worked for em was a pseudo-nationalism.

As soon as the internet exposed the underskilled, overpaid American workers to "free market competition" against Indian and Chinese counterparts, they were to be uncompetitive on price and skills. This is why capitalism needs a dose of protectionism, and even unionism.

Does capitalism work? What else would offer incentive for innovation and entrepreneurism? At the same time, capitalism without state intervention will only lead to massive wealth disparity. Since Bill Clintons massive job creation in the 90's, the US has always had a jobless recovery after each downturn, and the only underlying factor is the Internet which has truly made the world a global village.

ola olabiy:

Just tell me one communist country you know. There exists none!

Wow.And why are the capitalist economy supporting the poor with social welfare ? Is that not socialist ideology ?

Kilode?!:

The capitalist sky is not big enough for every bird.

Beaf is on point on so many levels. Unfortunately, the negative effect of capitalism, especially the pure unbridled kind, is like the elephant in the room that no one wants to address, -at least the powers that control the world system we currently live under don't want it addressed.

I also agree with Kobojunkie, I will rather we focus on discussing the problems of capitalism, we've heard enough about its great benefits IMO, maybe the Economics, and Philosophy egg heads here will lend us their minds and demystify this "amazing system" that has failed to solve world poverty or conquer hunger even in countries where they worship it like a god.

My opinion is that a Capitalist system where the top 1% controls over 40% of the wealth while the bottom 40% own just about 1% is just plain unfair, be it in Nigeria, USA or China.

Can you think of one field that humans are engaged in that is perfect? The imperfection in the system can be found in man.

Capitalism is a good thing when fully understood and well applied. In fact not accepting capitalism is like trying to limit human freedom. Capitalism just suggests a free market devoid of government involvement and manipulation. Those that say that capitalism makes them poor shud take a look at history and see that socialism and communism makes u even poorer. Capitalist countries still have their government invest in areas where there are no willing investors but is necessary for the growth of their economy.Even the most capitalist countries still have welfare for its citizens. Capitalism is like a guidance not a rule set on stone. The world economy is like a game. You have to play for your own benefit and stuff other people's ideologies. Bad governance makes capitalism look bad. Bad governance makes socialism and communism look like genocide

~Bluetooth:

Wow.And why are the capitalist economy supporting the poor with social welfare ? Is that not socialist ideology ?

That is capitalism with human face.
Tell me the name of a communist economy.
If is that good and practicable, why are countries not embracing it?

Katsumoto:

In every cloud there is a silver lining. Are the western countries not exploiting the SouthEast asian countries for labour, land, and military purposes. They have been doing that to them for years but there leaders came to a realisation one day and turned it into an advantage. If Africans can not seek to protect themselves and seek adavntages in their relationship with the West, who do you blame? Most of the SouthEast Asian countries are growing and will continue to grow for the foreseeable future. Is competition not a by-product of capitalism? Is competition not responsible for Western countries moving production to Asian? Who got the benefit of competition? Asia, and why did Africa not get it? Because of poor infrastructure, unstable governments, etc

Any soverreign nation that goes to another group of nations to borrow money will get exploited. Did the UK government of Harold Wilson not go to the IMF in 1976? Britain was forced to accept a SAP. It had to make deep cuts, increase taxation. Fast forward to 2010, has Britain not instituted SAP again, although not forced by the IMF but by the money markets. Did Greece, Ireland, Portugal, and Spain not go to the IMF and Germany this year as well? They will be running SAP programmes for the next four years and in the case of Greece, even longer. Nations are not too different from individuals and corporations in that, when you do not manage your resources competently, you get punished whether you are a rich nation or not.

If Capitalism was so bad, why was it adopted by China, Vietnam, and Russia? Does China not have the world's largest cash reserve today? Capitalism is like other philosophies such as religion. The teachings are not wrong; it is usually man's implementation that is at fault.

The highlighted quote above best encapsulates the best reponse to the thread!

I am not a fan of capitalism, mainly because as a concept it is intrinsically left to the whims and caprises of human behaviour, which inevitably is transcient in nature.

However, like some posters have pointed out, it is the most reasonable of the contemporary  economic/social philosophies- mainly because it rewards the hardworking "risk taker"  who in turn creates jobs for the less motivated.

It is important to note that the theoretical framework and operationalisation of capitalism are two different issues, hence , we can observe that people refer to the US and for e.g. UK as capitalist countries, theorectically this is true but in practice, its a bit more convoluted due to the European model of social inclusivity.

If we critically apppraise capitalism in light of the recent economic impasse, it will seem that there has been a paradigmatic shift from the the free market , capitalist model but the fact is that the " market knows all" attitude of the  US Fed, IMF, World Bank has been defeated (probably momentarily) and it has shown the need for some of control and intervention to negate what Keynsians call "animal spirits".

In summary, as someone that lives in Europe, I think as much as I question Obama's strategy , America's capitalist system ( albeit with policy interventions) has the mythical "invisible hand" to correct market inefficiencies unlike Europe that is made up of a complex economic systems ( quite unsimilar in nature) but desperately trying to salvage a lost cause, the EURO which is seen an economic success in terms of integration is facing monumental challenges because of the incompatible political realities,

Enough of the rabble,

~Bluetooth:

Wow.And why are the capitalist economy supporting the poor with social welfare ? Is that not socialist ideology ?

Without capitalism you wouldn't be where you are today. Except you are an Alaafin descendant.

Oyinda, dem don finally dey teach you well o.

Capitalism is utter trash if not moderated. Absolute rubbish!

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-280487.96.html#msg4033406

It brings out the dark side of humans.

Look at when California deregulated its power industry, the bas-tard traders at Enron purposely seized control of the machinery and started creating artificial power shortages to create lower supply and drive up prices. The traders were making millions a year, whilst the ordinary people were struggling to pay their bills and some had to go without.

Pure Capitalism is thrash!!!

Sagamite:

Oyinda, dem don finally dey teach you well o.

Capitalism is utter trash if not moderated. Absolute rubbish!

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-280487.96.html#msg4033406

It brings out the dark side of humans.

Look at when California deregulated its power industry, the bas-tard traders at Enron purposely seized control of the machinery and started creating artificial power shortages to create lower supply and drive up prices. The traders were making millions a year, whilst the ordinary people were struggling to pay their bills and some had to go without.

Pure Capitalism is thrash!!!

If must be regulated. Fne. I agree. Most economies are mixed anyway. Market machanism is not usually freelly allowed to determine things. There are always some sort of interventionist approach by governments.

Tell me one economy that is 'purely' capitalist.

Sagamite:

Oyinda, dem don finally dey teach you well o. 

Capitalism is utter trash if not moderated. Absolute rubbish!

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-280487.96.html#msg4033406

It brings out the dark side of humans.

Look at when California deregulated its power industry, the bas-tard traders at Enron purposely seized control of the machinery and started creating artificial power shortages to create lower supply and drive up prices. The traders were making millions a year, whilst the ordinary people were struggling to pay their bills and some had to go without.

Pure Capitalism is thrash!!!

I agree with you on that, or look at Martha Stewart who served time in jail for having access to inside trading. Like you (you can read my comment on the previous page), capitalism should be regulated that is, there ought to be a check and balances, otherwise it gets out of hand. But for the bailouts, the banking industry would have collapsed due to the greed of their CEOS. One of them, Stan O'neil, the black guy, took home over 150 million dollars and I wont be surprised if there were massive layoffs in his bank.

Ibime:

One variable often overlooked in the debate about the merits and demerits of a free market system is the effect the internet is having on globalisation.

The baby boomer generation long lauded the benefits of capitalism which brought them the middle class lifestyle. What the internet did was expose the fact that the capitalism which worked for em was a pseudo-nationalism.

As soon as the internet exposed the underskilled, overpaid American workers to "free market competition" against Indian and Chinese counterparts, they were to be uncompetitive on price and skills. This is why capitalism needs a dose of protectionism, and even unionism.

Does capitalism work? What else would offer incentive for innovation and entrepreneurism? At the same time, capitalism without state intervention will only lead to massive wealth disparity. Since Bill Clintons massive job creation in the 90's, the US has always had a jobless recovery after each downturn, and the only underlying factor is the Internet which has truly made the world a global village.

Globalisation started well before the Internet; faced with gowing competition from Japanese firms and a stagnant economy in the 80s, many Aemerican firms such as GE, Pepsi started the globalisation trend. Sensing this trend, South -East Asian countries started to prepare for it.

Also, the American worker may seem overpaid when compared with the Indian and Chinese worker but you ignore two things.
1. The corporations are American
2. What happens when there is equilibrium between supply and demand; and the wages of the chinese and indian worker is comparable to their counterparts in the US? We are already seeing this as wages rise in China and India and the chinese and Indian worker gets more rights.

ola olabiy:

Without capitalism you wouldn't be where you are today. Except you are an Alaafin descendant.

How ? What makes capitalism different from slavery or feudalism.Monkey dey work,baboon dey chop and you guys are praising such system.It's advanced slavery ! Simple.One single persons own billions of naira and many people can't even feed themselves.what kind of thing is that ? So inhuman

~Bluetooth:

How ? What makes capitalism different from slavery or feudalism.Monkey dey work,baboon dey chop and you guys are praising such system.It's advanced slavery ! Simple.One single persons own billions of naira and many people can't even feed themselves.what kind of thing is that ? So inhuman

So what do you propose in place of capitalism?

~Bluetooth:

How ? What makes capitalism different from slavery or feudalism.Monkey dey work,baboon dey chop and you guys are praising such system.It's advanced slavery ! Simple.One single persons own billions of naira and many people can't even feed themselves.what kind of thing is that ? So inhuman

Options, please.

Capitalism remains the most effective economic system that currently exist at distributing wealth and alleviating absolute poverty even with its flaws

as already mentioned, many countries such as China and India are experiencing economic growth and improved standard of living of its citizens which

would not have been posible without the free market system.

however I do agree that capitalism has its many flaws; stretching from unequal wealth distribution accross and within nations to exploitation of the

poor by the rich

Capitalism is a natural economic system, it promotes entrepreneurship and hard work.

I believe Ibos are natural capitalists,they have the drive and determination when it comes to applying resources as a means to provide goods and services for consumers,I can't say the same for other tribes though .

If Ibos hade their own country,it would eclipse china and india in the next 10 years.

Sagamite:

Oyinda, dem don finally dey teach you well o.

Capitalism is utter trash if not moderated. Absolute rubbish!

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-280487.96.html#msg4033406

It brings out the dark side of humans.

Look at when California deregulated its power industry, the bas-tard traders at Enron purposely seized control of the machinery and started creating artificial power shortages to create lower supply and drive up prices. The traders were making millions a year, whilst the ordinary people were struggling to pay their bills and some had to go without.

Pure Capitalism is thrash!!!

Can you propose a better system than capitalism?

Katsumoto:

So what do you propose in place of capitalism?

ola olabiy:

Options, please.

The evils of capitalism surpassed its advantage.It has come to be an importance policy of the contemporary age.however,I will like to see a system that will bridge the gap between the rich and poor.A poor man should be able to access fund to earn like the rich man.
if a system of government that will give more privilege to the poor man working for a rich is available,the poor man will be able to establish himself.this capitalism is just concerned about the elites.They enslave the poor with big big english.

~Bluetooth:

The evils of capitalism surpassed its advantage.It has come to be an importance policy of the contemporary age.however,I will like to see a system that will bridge the gap between the rich and poor.A poor man should be able to access fund to earn like the rich man.
if a system of government that will give more privilege to the poor man working for a rich is available,the poor man will be able to establish himself.this capitalism is just concerned about the elites.They enslave the poor with big big english.

You woud like to see a system that would bridge the gap? Hehehe, Blue blue.

So, none exists right now, abi?

You have to conceptualise a new one, then.

~Bluetooth:

The evils of capitalism surpassed its advantage.It has come to be an importance policy of the contemporary age.however,I will like to see a system that will bridge the gap between the rich and poor.A poor man should be able to access fund to earn like the rich man.
if a system of government that will give more privilege to the poor man working for a rich is available,the poor man will be able to establish himself.this capitalism is just concerned about the elites.They enslave the poor with big big english.

So Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Warren Buffet, Steve Jobs, and many others, were from rich homes before they got wealthy? Capitalism promotes innovation; if you have a worthwhile idea and and you are smart, you will be rewarded. Don't wealthy people become bankrupt? Did Bob Guiccone, Adnan Kashoggi, Walt Disney, Francis Ford Coppolla, Kim Basinger etc not get bankrupt?

Also, don't rich people pay more taxes than poor people?

ola olabiy:

You woud like to see a system that would bridge the gap? Hehehe, Blue blue.

So, none exists right now, abi?

You have to conceptualise a new one, then.

Do you think the rich men would be happy if one day they wake up to find the poor men riding big cars like them ? If only such will happen,i will propose socialism.Everybody should have equal rights !

~Bluetooth:

Do you think the rich men would be happy if one day they wake up to find the poor men riding big cars like them ? If only such will happen,i will propose socialism.Everybody should have equal rights !

So a poor man should own possessions that can not be paid for with his wage?

Capitalism in my opinion is based on a system of incentives whereby the free market rewards those who can produce and sell goods and services in the most competitive and efficient manner.  In a way it's like the 100 metres Olympic finals where the fastest sprinter gets the gold medal.  However a major shortcoming of capitalism is that it can breed monopolies and uncompetitive prices like the old US telephone company AT&T which locked out competitors and stifled innovation.   I therefore think it is better for governments to formulate laws and regulations that check the excess of unfair and anti competitive practices in the economy like the US government has done with  anti trust legislation.  It is also a good idea for governments to recognise that in such a competitive economic system like capitalism there are bound to be  losers and that such people in a civilized society should be given some support to ensure that they do not starve to death or live under intolerable conditions.    I however have to say that capitalism as practised in America today has become a big joke with the system tilted in favour of big banks and financial institutions at the expense of the taxpayer.  In addition America has lived far beyond its means and has been exporting its jobs and productive capacity to low labour cost countries like China, while borrowing heavily to fund its living standards, like a spendthrift maxing out his credit card.  Sooner or later the bill will come due and it could cause serious social upheaval in America.   As far as Nigeria is concerned what we have practiced there for years  is a form of crony capitalism where economic power and wealth are dispensed through a system of favours and patronage which depend on thousands of invisible and informal personal contacts and networks.   However I have noticed a trend in recent years whereby highly educated and competent Nigerians are beginning to make inroads into the system and take on the old guard with innovative and fresh ideas.   If this trend continues it is likely to open up more opportunities in the Nigerian economy and make it more competitive and productive.

Katsumoto:

So Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Warren Buffet, Steve Jobs, and many others, were from rich homes before they got wealthy? Capitalism promotes innovation; if you have a worthwhile idea and and you are smart, you will be rewarded. Don't wealthy people become bankrupt? Did Bob Guiccone, Adnan Kashoggi, Walt Disney, Francis Ford Coppolla, Kim Basinger etc not get bankrupt?

Oh capitalism is all about survival of the fittest ! So what about the millions of other who have ideas and are smart but were never rewarded simply because they are not fortunate like Bill Gates,warren Buffet and others ?

~Bluetooth:

Oh capitalism is all about survival of the fittest ! So what about the millions of other who have ideas and are smart but were never rewarded simply because they are not fortunate like Bill Gates,warren Buffet and others ?

Invent or design a product or service that people want and wait for the dough to roll in.

jalether:

Can you propose a better system than capitalism?

The socio-capitalism practices by Scandinavian countries like Sweden and also Canada.

~Bluetooth:

Do you think the rich men would be happy if one day they wake up to find the poor men riding big cars like them ? If only such will happen,i will propose socialism.Everybody should have equal rights !

That is why countries like the UK have social security.

This is to bring about sanity.

Sagamite:

The socio-capitalism practices by Scandinavian countries like Sweden and also Canada.

It is nothing but capitalism with some control.

Intervention, if you like.

ola olabiy:

That is why countries like the UK have social security.

This is to bring about sanity.

Interesting ! Does that amount really bridge the gap between the high and the low ?

Katsumoto:

Invent or design a product or service that people want and wait for the dough to roll in.  

No shaking but still the framework should be there.I just feel bad sometimes when i see some disadvantaged people wasting off with their talents !