Franking:


Continue wallowing in ignorance and stupidity then.

Sorry, but I don't do vulgar abuses. Check the next door.

lexy2014:


Oga, there's no where in d Bible that say moses used his rod to part d red sea. if it is in ur Bible, pls show it to me.

U have still failed to answer d questions i asked. B4 Sarah had Isaac, was she not having sex with Abraham? Y did d sex not produce children all d while? When Rachel was barren, was Jacob not having sex with her? When Hannah was barren was Elkanah not having sex with her? Y did d sex alone not produce children?

If women can give birth post menopause, is it because of lack of sex that they didn't have children b4 menopause?

Whether Mary having Jesus was a one off or not, is that not breaking protocol? I thought u said God doesn't break protocol? Am also glad that u called them miracles, whether they have been replicated or not. What is a miracle? Is it not protocol being broken?

I have said this over and over, but u seem to b running away from it

Raise your staff and stretch out your hand over the sea to divide the water so that the Israelites can go through the sea on dry ground. (Exodus 14:16)

The above verse addresses the other questions you raised.

BluntBoy:


There are many types of leaders. There are two notable ones in Nigeria whose words have major influences: Religious and political leaders.

You can't exonerate religious leaders from the mess that the country is in today. Both political and religious leaders have failed the country.

Religious leaders are not elected to rule in democracy... This is not Iran which practice something that look like Theocracy!!!

They are not involved in budget, staffing, organizations, employment in Government parastatals etc....


They are just religious leaders... They are not Political Godfathers too..

Boko Haram are killing/abducting, Shite are relentless, minimum wages are not really paid, inflation is happening, senators are too enriched, unemployment is skyrocketing,... Nigeria has their elected politicians to hold responsible..

Nobody holds TD Jake's responsibe for any United States problems... Nobody!!

But Nigerians will prefer to flex thier muscles on a Pastor post rather than facing their lifeless political leaders!!!

eni4real:
Religion leaders are not elected to rule in democracy... This is not Iran which practice something that look like Theocracy!!!

They are not involved in budget, staffing, organizations, employment in Government parastatals etc....


They are just religious leaders... They are not Political Godfathers too..

Boko Haram are killing/abducting, Shite are relentless, minimum wages are not really paid, inflation is happening, senators are too enriched, unemployment is skyrocketing,... Nigeria has their elected politicians to hold responsible..

Nobody holds TD Jake's responsibe for any United States problems... Nobody!!

But Nigerians will prefer to flex thier muscles on a Pastor post rather than facing their lifeless political leaders!!!

Don't you know that religion is an agent of socialization and social control?

Did you people go to school at all

BluntBoy:


Don't you know that religion is an agent of socialization and social control?

Did you people go to school at all

Say that again when any American hold TD Jakes responsible for any challenges facing their Country !!!

eni4real:
Nigeria is not ruled by Pastors.. Ask your President and your money grabbing senators what they offer Nigeria!!!

Don't be scared to challenge the right people...

I guess the leaders of Nigeria are praying to a different “god” then.


The leaders are always the problem...whereas the mindset of the followers seems to be “perfect”


Good luck with the self centred prayers. I hope it really promotes you.

BluntBoy:


Raise your staff and stretch out your hand over the sea to divide the water so that the Israelites can go through the sea on dry ground. (Exodus 14:16)

The above verse addresses the other questions you raised.

It doesn't dude. Which staff was raised when Mary became pregnant 4 Jesus? If it was by staff, then u won't have moses saying what he said Exodus 14:14 and 21. Again read Exodus 33:15-16. Moses explained what he needed to succeed. He didn't mention staff.

Read Genesis 39:-2-3 and 39:21-23. Moses staff isn't what made d difference. D scripture is very clear.

Since u said it is by works, u still haven't been able to say y sex alone couldn't produce kids for Abraham and Sarah, Jacob and Rachel and Elkanah and Hannah? Or were they not having enough sex?

OkCornel:


I guess the leaders of Nigeria are praying to a different “god” then.

Is praying part of their manifesto??
Nigeria is a secular country.. .. Every Politicians should be judged based on their performances..

Pastor's prayer point is meant for Christians alone..

There are many Muslims, many African traditionalists, atheists, and agnostics in Nigeria..

Who our elected politicians pray to is none of our business, performance is the duty they owe

eni4real:
Say that again when any American hold TD Jakes responsible for any challenges facing their Country !!!

Below is an American calling our prosperity preachers for using their prosperity theology to further worsen the American situation:

We see its influence spreading, nationally and internationally, as televangelists and celebrity ministers with their megachurches preach its basic tenets. In black America, this theology overtakes calls for economic empowerment. Freedom dreams are supplanted by the aspiration to wealth, a theology that suits a vision of capitalism that is devastating our communities and country.
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/06/25/has-capitalism-become-incompatible-with-christianity/too-many-black-churches-preach-the-gospel-of-greed

lexy2014:


It doesn't dude. Which staff was raised when Mary became pregnant 4 Jesus? If it was by staff, then u won't have moses saying what he said Exodus 14:14 and 21. Again read Exodus 33:15-16. Moses explained what he needed to succeed. He didn't mention staff.

Read Genesis 39:-2-3 and 39:21-23. Moses staff isn't what made d difference. D scripture is very clear.

Since u said it is by works, u still haven't been able to say y sex alone couldn't produce kids for Abraham and Sarah, Jacob and Rachel and Elkanah and Hannah? Or were they not having enough sex?

I said it is by faith and work. I never said it is by works alone.

You obviously have not been reading my posts. I have emphasized the saying: Faith without work is dead

How you can still conclude that I meant only works was necessary is beyond me.

Mary's case is a one-off incident, so stop mentioning it as an example.

And you are either too ignorant or are deliberately refusing to understand me.

Two things worked on the Red Sea:

Moses's rod and God's power. Moses stretching out his rod was the effort that God crowned.

Tell me, why did God have to make Moses stretch out his rod? Why didn't God just perform the miracle straight off?

That prayer point is for selected few.
Not all that call HIM FATHER shall enter into HIS KINGDOM. End of story. Pam

eni4real:
Is praying part of their manifesto??
Nigeria is a secular country.. .. Every Politicians should be judged based on their performances..

Pastor's prayer point is meant for Christians alone..

There are many Muslims, many African traditionalists, atheists, and agnostics in Nigeria..

Who our elected politicians pray to is none of our business, performance is the duty they owe

Your leaders are Christians and Muslims... abi is it idols they’re praying to?

Ironically, they think they’ve gotten to their various offices because God “favoured” them.

Same kind of prayer you are endorsing here.

BluntBoy:


Below is an American calling our prosperity preachers for using their prosperity theology to further worsen the American situation:

We see its influence spreading, nationally and internationally, as televangelists and celebrity ministers with their megachurches preach its basic tenets. In black America, this theology overtakes calls for economic empowerment. Freedom dreams are supplanted by the aspiration to wealth, a theology that suits a vision of capitalism that is devastating our communities and country.
https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2014/06/25/has-capitalism-become-incompatible-with-christianity/too-many-black-churches-preach-the-gospel-of-greed

What is the percentage of Muslims, Christians, traditionalist in Nigeria??

How has their posts or public lectures affect your political leaders performance??

Are you making excuse for Politicians here??

That means, Olukoya'd fall down and die prayer method is the reason why many Nigerians are dying by accidents, armed bandits and flooding??

There is no better place to loot as a politicians like Nigeria, since citizens hold pastors, imams and herbalists responsible for their problems...

This is Democracy and not theocracy...

Atheists will never learn

OkCornel:



Your leaders are Christians and Muslims... abi is it idols they’re praying to?

Ironically, they think they’ve gotten to their various offices because God “favoured” then.

Same kind of prayer you are endorsing here.

So, Politicians are free to loot your money while you hold Pastor's twitter post as the reason why they loot??
Wow!!!

Is that not cowardice??

When you can't face the real irresponsible politicians elected to office by your votes??

lexy2014:


Bros there are many people with gifts who are languishing and unheard of. There are hardworking people who are poor and broke. Effort isn't enough. Even with Josephs gifts, he still wasn't qualified to b a PM. He was a foreigner & least of all, a slave and a convict. So d prayer is very much in order. It is very scriptural

If you read my post very well, I said gift and grace. The prayer is in order only for those who have gift to offer. If you have nothing to offer, it won't work for you.

eni4real:
So, Politicians are free to loot your money while you hold Pastor's twitter post as the reason why they loot??
Wow!!!

Is that not cowardice??

When you can't face the real irresponsible politicians elected to office by your votes??

Nope, that’s not my point.

Both the leaders and the followers are responsible for the mess Nigeria is.

The craftiness of the leaders coupled with the ignorance, illiteracy and gullibility of majority of the followers who are more than willing to disturb God for favours rather than face their problems squarely. Nigeria’s leaders and followers are made for each other. A marriage made in hell.


For goodness sake, how often do you see citizens of advanced countries praying this kind of pointless poverty induced prayers?

Smh.

donb06:
My brother everybody has a unique gift well harnessed... Yet not everybody gets promoted...2. Protocols were broken for Joseph oo... First a stranger...secondly...nothing like Prime Minister until Joseph came to play.... Protocols were not just broken but dashed for him

You still must have something to offer for it to work for you. Daniel also had similar favour in four successive government because he had something to offer. So, discover your gifting first and utilize it for the benefit of people and advancing the kingdom and it will work for you.

eni4real:
What is the percentage of Muslims, Christians, traditionalist in Nigeria??

How has their posts or public lectures affect your political leaders performance??

Are you making excuse for Politicians here??

That means, Olukoya'd fall down and die prayer method is the reason why many Nigerians are dying by accidents, armed bandits and flooding??

There is no better place to loot as a politicians like Nigeria, since citizens hold pastors, imams and herbalists responsible for their problems...

This is Democracy and not theocracy...

Atheists will never learn

First of all, let me correct an impression.

I am not making excuses for politicians. I am only stating that religious leaders should not be exempted from the list of people who have destroyed this country.

The prosperity theology encourages greed, and many looted funds find their way into the church. Many of these politicians hold services of Thanksgiving and special prayers in the churches and they spend some of their ill-gotten money on pastors and church projects.

As for the Muslims, there are imams who are spreading bad messages and encouraging terrorism.

So, religious leaders have a lot to play. When you preach that poverty is a sin, you are encouraging people to make money by any means available. That is why someone like Lawrence Agada would rob Sheraton Hotel and spend some of the stolen money on Christ Embassy church projects.

What part of this prayer is filled with mediocrity, really?
All of those words Papa said is embedded in one word...UNCOMMON FAVOUR!
Forget sentiment or sh!t, it's favour we all need in our everyday life

BluntBoy:


I said it is by faith and work. I never said it is by works alone.

You obviously have not been reading my posts. I have emphasized the saying: Faith without work is dead

How you can still conclude that I meant only works was necessary is beyond me.

Mary's case is a one-off incident, so stop mentioning it as an example.

And you are either too ignorant or are deliberately refusing to understand me.

Two things worked on the Red Sea:

Moses's rod and God's power. Moses stretching out his rod was the effort that God crowned.

Tell me, why did God have to make Moses stretch out his rod? Why didn't God just perform the miracle straight off?

According to u God doesn't break protocol and u have mentioned it several times. Mary giving birth to Jesus is a very good example of God breaking protocol whether it was done once or a million times. If u don't like d example, there's nothing I can do about it. Obviously, u don't have anyway to debunk it.

If u saying God doesn't break protocol, then u are saying works alone is what we need. Some of u mentioned Joseph and in my earlier posts, I quoted Genesis 39:2-3 and 21-23 were it showed that if it was by his effort, there's no way he would have ended up were he did. I have also given u several examples with women who were barren.

In Exodus 33:15-16,Moses corroborated what happened in Josephs life. It tells u something, God would have parted d red sea even without Moses or his rod. What did any human being do that helped God create d world? Was it with moses and his rod?

Since u said God doesn't break protocol, am sure u can explain which natural law supports Jesus walking on water, feeding thousands of people with 5 loaves of bread and two fish and talking to d sea to b calm. Am sure it is nepotism and corruption

I don't know why the noise about this prayers, it's just a simple prayer of favor, and I call this prayer the prayer of unmerited favor. Every day an average human being on earth always pray this prayer in one way or the other and we see this kind of favor manifesting in life.

lexy2014:


According to u God doesn't break protocol and u have mentioned it several times. Mary giving birth to Jesus is a very good example of God breaking protocol whether it was done once or a million times. If u don't like d example, there's nothing I can do about it. Obviously, u don't have anyway to debunk it.

If u saying God doesn't break protocol, then u are saying works alone is what we need. Some of u mentioned Joseph and in my earlier posts, I quoted Genesis 39:2-3 and 21-23 were it showed that if it was by his effort, there's no way he would have ended up were he did. I have also given u several examples with women who were barren.

In Exodus 33:15-16,Moses corroborated what happened in Josephs life. It tells u something, God would have parted d red sea even without Moses or his rod. What did any human being do that helped God create d world? Was it with moses and his rod?

Since u said God doesn't break protocol, am sure u can explain which natural law supports Jesus walking on water, feeding thousands of people with 5 loaves of bread and two fish and talking to d sea to b calm. Am sure it is nepotism and corruption

First of all, what is protocol?

Second, Adeboye said protocols for promotion.

I have explained that God does not break protocols; you must have contributed your effort.

I had to bring you back to the argument because you have decided to continue chasing other issues outside the argument of this thread.

Nijaghana:
I don't know why the noise about this prayers, it's just a simple prayer of favor, and I call this prayer the prayer of unmerited favor. Every day an average human being on earth always pray this prayer in one way or the other and we see this kind of favor manifesting in life.

Everyone should be equal in the sight of God...
A prayer that antagonize due procedure for selfish reason is not good.

If we can’t have the same level of favour in the sight of God then I must say that Christianity is rigged and full of fraud

BluntBoy:


First of all, let me correct an impression.

I am not making excuses for politicians. I am only stating that religious leaders should not be exempted from the list of people who have destroyed this country.

The prosperity theology encourages greed, and many looted funds find their way into the church. Many of these politicians hold services of Thanksgiving and special prayers in the churches and they spend some of their ill-gotten money on pastors and church projects.

As for the Muslims, there are imams who are spreading bad messages and encouraging terrorism.

So, religious leaders have a lot to play. When you preach that poverty is a sin, you are encouraging people to make money by any means available. That is why someone like Lawrence Agada would rob Sheraton Hotel and spend some of the stolen money on Christ Embassy church projects.

A lot??
The role of religious leaders are overhyped...

In sane countries where politicians are held responsible for their ineptitude, pastors are not the one to determine their developments!!!

I repeat, Pastors are just spiritual leaders... Their role in democracy is just for addition sake..

Your senators will continue to go home with 100 of millions Naira every month while you will find it difficult to make 3 million in a year...

But but, Nigeria will not move forward because of a Pastor's post on God's favour as prayer point!!

Misplaced priorities, atheism, cowardice rolled Into 1 by those Twitter's reactors!!!

Exponental:
Very unfortunate.... Many don't under the prayer point!
What makes the bread seller Jumoke a model Think outside the box!!!!!

Yours will be Blessing! I've been looking for the right illustration, yours suit (it) best.
God bless...it's left for them to understand

BluntBoy:


First of all, what is protocol?

Second, Adeboye said protocols for promotion.

I have explained that God does not break protocols; you must have contributed your effort.

I had to bring you back to the argument because you have decided to continue chasing other issues outside the argument of this thread.

What are d other issues? Am not d one who said u shouldnt b able to support what u saying with biblical facts. Pls explain what a protocol is? U are d one who can't support what u saying with d Bible. If Jesus was born by a virgin, is that not breaking protocol? If Jesus could walk on water, is that not breaking protocol? Manna fell from heaven. What effort did d israelites or Moses make to make that happen? D corpse of a dead man touched Elisha's bones and came to life. Is that not breaking protocol? How do u explain 3 guys standing in d midst of a fire and not getting burned? Is that not breaking protocol? If God can break protocols in these areas, is it promotion protocol that he can't break?

Tell me what protocol did God follow to create d world or to form u in ur mothers womb? So far u are just arguing without any scriptural basis. If u are arguing d Bible, then produce d scriptures

Honestly, I am glad, this became news and that people are finally openly reacting to issues like this.

For one, it tells me that I'm not abnormal to have been holding unto these thoughts for years and cant share it and...
Secondly, to realise that people are realising how selfish a lot of these prayers are. If all is suspended, who are those at the receiving end.

All of these types of prayers encourage a lot of corruption, selfishness, nepotism, disregard for work and apathy towards excellence and the importance of the brain.

Our brain has a function, our mind, curiosity, personality has functions.

Personally, if the bible was Important enough, why was it not preinstalled in our minds or brain.

Why are the elements that makes us human there for us to see like our hands and others and yet the bible isn't.

Why do we have to learn all these from people who very often are on a lost cause or in most cases don't know what they are doing?

We have a lot to learn in this parts honestly. A foray into astronomy or astrophysics will blow some minds out the window I'm sure.

I just hope this opened debates will go on and enlighten people, and if not enlighten them at least should stop or pause them from being critical of persons like me.

I've been in the closet for way too long and it's unhealthy

Kulushkalash:
Honestly, I am glad, this became news and that people are finally openly reacting to issues like this.

For one, it tells me that I'm not abnormal to have been holding unto these thoughts for years and cant share it and...
Secondly, to realise that people are realising how selfish a lot of these prayers are. If all is suspended, who are those at the receiving end.

All of these types of prayers encourage a lot of corruption, selfishness, nepotism, disregard for work and apathy towards excellence and the importance of the brain.

Our brain has a function, our mind, curiosity, personality has functions.

Personally, if the bible was Important enough, why was it not preinstalled in our minds or brain.

Why are the elements that makes us human there for us to see like our hands and others and yet the bible isn't.

Why do we have to learn all these from people who very often are on a lost cause or in most cases don't know what they are doing?

We have a lot to learn in this parts honestly. A foray into astronomy or astrophysics will blow some minds out the window I'm sure.

I just hope this opened debates will go on and enlighten people, and if not enlighten them at least should stop or pause them from being critical of persons like me.

I've been in the closet for way too long and it's unhealthy

Dude, I share your personality but the difference is that I’m unapologetic about it.
I question everything whether openly or in secrecy. I have been called a lot of names because I question a lot of inconsistencies and abnormality in religion. I am not doing that to make fun of those practicing it but I need them to think out of the box and stop relying on some fairytales written by ancient humans who absolutely had no knowledge about how the universe operates.

Seriously, Nigeria will be a lot better if we can get enough minds that can think beyond religion. Religion breeds mental retrogression and kills the urge to find solutions to problems.

We have to keep talking about this...

Ken4Christ:
Joseph got his promotion through the gift of interpretation of dreams and wisdom. So, what is your unique gift the world is looking for? Protocols will not be overlooked. Your gift and grace will make way for you.

Thanks bros for this. In addition the sufferings he went through to perfect his patience as trails set in. God cannot be fooled or mocked . Galatians 6:7 summarised it all.

Prayer of forgiveness and empowerment!

lexy2014:


Very much sir, protocols were broken. In those days, foreigners were third class citizens. Now add slave and prisoner to mix, that's down d line in societal hierarchy. Even in today's society, d stigma of being a prisoner is hard to break how much more those days. Slaves were considered items and properties. They weren't seen as human beings with rights or worth. They were acquired and disposed off like garbage. So my dear, a lot of protocols were broken

You pulled this out of nowhere. There are many kingdoms where some slaves had more power than nobles. Many eunuchs that served kings were slaves, but they were men with great powers. Joseph did what the wisest of noblemen could not do, and saved a kingdom, that took away his slave status, just as he lost his freedom by bing sold, he became a freed man by his action. There is no protocol that says once you are a slave, you can never gain freedom. The history of mankind is replete with stories of slaves who by their sheer enterprise, wisdom and valor became nobles and kings.

lexy2014:


What are d other issues? Am not d one who said u shouldnt b able to support what u saying with biblical facts. Pls explain what a protocol is? U are d one who can't support what u saying with d Bible. If Jesus was born by a virgin, is that not breaking protocol? If Jesus could walk on water, is that not breaking protocol? Manna fell from heaven. What effort did d israelites or Moses make to make that happen? D corpse of a dead man touched Elisha's bones and came to life. Is that not breaking protocol? How do u explain 3 guys standing in d midst of a fire and not getting burned? Is that not breaking protocol? If God can break protocols in these areas, is it promotion protocol that he can't break?

Tell me what protocol did God follow to create d world or to form u in ur mothers womb? So far u are just arguing without any scriptural basis. If u are arguing d Bible, then produce d scriptures

So if miracles are the protocols, then the only protocol broken is Josephs ability to interprete dreams. This is not typical and its against the norms, that is why it is a miraculous gift. But to save a kingdom and be made a prime minister is not against any protocol, by such action he has become the father of the nation. There are instances in history in which total strangers were made rulers because they saved the kingdom or they were better men. The case of oduduwa in the west is a good example.