This PMB government is getting confused everyday because they told us before that there was nothing like subsidy during Jonathan's rule and made gullible Nigerians to occupy freedom park all in the name of demonstrations. They promised $1=N1. Scam everywhere!!

Cherez:


...But same govt almost imported grass from Brazil ...

Hear me and hear me well! There is absolutely nothing wrong with importing improved seedlings for cultivation in Nigeria. That is what happens in modern agriculture practice all over the world. For months, it was explained and re-echoed that it was grass 'seedlings' for cultivation, but compulsively ignorant fellows continued to twist it saying Nigeria was planning to import grass to feed cows. If you choose to fall in this category of humans peddling ignorant rubbish even till 2019, enjoy yourself.

Cherez:


The way you guys support evil in your country is thrilling, honestly.
Imagine what you typed up there.
Reserve dropped?
Oga balance our debt with reserve as at today?
That's why volume of oil bring subsidized doubled in 5yrs even with border closure?
But same govt almost imported grass from Brazil and your oga and his colleagues keeps packing away our dollars for foreign medicals.
You absolutely have a very weak point.
Yes it is wrong to import like Naija does but have our leaders led by example?
Even their wears are all foreign and they keep traveling abroad always.
No be abroad Zahra & her siblings go school?
Cos rice is the common man's food?
Can we start import restriction from ostentatious goods?
Criminal elites

Did Nigeria's reserve not drop to $28bn in May 2015?... At that same time, was the country's income not at an all time low? Did Nigeria not have a total debt stock at that same time in 2015 of over $65bn? Debt and reserves (which is more like cash-in-hand), are they the same thing in your understanding of economics?... Please I desperately need an answer from you, what exactly is your point?

I corrected some flaws in a person's argument and you jumped in from nowhere attacking me and saying I'm defending a bad government. But by dishing out fake statistics, poor logic, and/or ignorant comments, how exactly is that the best or noble way to criticise bad governance? Doesn't that make a person even as useless as the useless government being criticised?... Whatever happened to criticising with sound logic? Is tha beyond your capacity as a human?

Like I said before, I wasn't holding brief for any of our useless leaders; I was only trashing some false comments laced with twisted logic. If simply putting out facts or correcting an erroneous belief is what you call 'defence' or 'support' for a govt, then so be it.

Simplyleo:
Okay.

But if prices of imported petroleum products must be regulated, government intervention to cushion the effects of increased prices is inevitable, hence the subsidy. Without subsidy, the prices will soar.

Las las, nothing for online trolls.

I thought buhari said subsidy payment is a fraud which he will correct by fixing d refineries?

obailala:
Hear me and hear me well! There is absolutely nothing wrong with importing improved seedlings for cultivation in Nigeria. That is what happens in modern agriculture practice all over the world. For months, it was explained and re-echoed that it was grass 'seedlings' for cultivation, but compulsively ignorant fellows continued to twist it saying Nigeria was planning to import grass to feed cows. If you choose to fall in this category of humans peddling ignorant rubbish even till 2019, enjoy yourself.

Where were d imported grass seedlings eventually cultivated? How far have Nigerians benefitted from these "improved seedlings"?

obailala:

There's a simply economic explanation for that; when pump price was N97, the actual import cost was about N145. Now fuel sells for N145 but the actual import cost floats between N165 - N200. Oil prices and the exchange rate which has doubled (N160 - N305) are the core culprits why subsidy is still being paid despite the N145 pump price.

.

D period under review in d article is November 2018- November 2019. D "core culprits" u mentioned, crude oil price and exchange rate, don't justify a 2001% increase in d space of one year

lexy2014:


D period under review in d article is November 2018- November 2019. D "core culprits" u mentioned, crude oil price and exchange rate, don't justify a 2001% increase in d space of one year

What exactly increased by 2000%? I dont think I understand what the reporter meant by 2000% increase. I assume it's either a mistake or a deliberate attempt by PUNCH to mislead the public with a screaming headline to attract readers; Nigerian journalists are notorious for this.

Modified:
I just did a quick google search and the first result I got on 2018 subsidies was this report below from PREMIUM TIMES saying NNPC incurred under recovery/subsidy of N65.9 billion in November 2018.
https://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/headlines/302848-fuel-subsidy-how-nnpc-incurred-over-n623bn-cost-in-2018.html

PUNCH today reports a contrary figure of N2.87 billion, which apparently means it increased from N2.87bn in Nov18 to N60.37bn in Nov19 (i.e. the 2000% increase). Oil price in Nov18 was ~$60 and was ~$56 in Nov19. Which of these set of figures do we follow? PT or PUNCH?

You see what I mean when I say our journalists are as useless as our politicians when it comes to screwing our heads? Journalists know Nigerians only read 'sweet' headlines.

lexy2014:


Where were d imported grass seedlings eventually cultivated? How far have Nigerians benefitted from these "improved seedlings"?

It was part of the plan when they intended to establish 'grazing reserves' I believe. The idea was to get improved seedlings (just exactly as was done for the flood resistant rice variety) and then grow them in Nigeria (in the grazing reserves). I dont think the plan went through because the grazing reserve initiative itself was roundly rejected.

It's just annoying reading people still twist the story even in 2019 saying they wanted to import grass to feed cow; heck! we know the govt is unpopular, but how exactly is peddling false and twisted narratives the best way to criticise govt?

obailala:
Hear me and hear me well! There is absolutely nothing wrong with importing improved seedlings for cultivation in Nigeria. That is what happens in modern agriculture practice all over the world. For months, it was explained and re-echoed that it was grass 'seedlings' for cultivation, but compulsively ignorant fellows continued to twist it saying Nigeria was planning to import grass to feed cows. If you choose to fall in this category of humans peddling ignorant rubbish even till 2019, enjoy yourself.

Lol
So, why not import the knowledge which is far more cost saving than the grass?
Mehn, think ahead.
Importing those seedlings is to what end?
Have they not been doing that?
No matter how good a seedling is, you can only tone it to it's natural habitat.
Improved seedlings are finished products of a processing unit.

FemiMaduka:
This subsidy regime should be about the messiest corruption cesspit and the biggest drain on our finance as a nation. We are practically throwing billions into the drain and, of course, creating an avenue for greedy folks to pocket large chunks of our national earnings.

The hypocrisy, close-mindedness, docility and maliciousness of the generality of the Nigerian populace is mind-boggling. We 'occupied Nigeria' some years back for N87/litre [with halved subsidy], today, for N147/litre [and a supervisory regime that is so cloaked that we can hardly tell whether there is subsidy or not, or 'under-recovery'—for whatever it means] we have apparently lost our indignation and sense of right-judgement.

This regime has already out-borrowed the last two put together; the President is making final adjustments to his plan to borrow a whooping $29bn, an amount that is bigger than our budget, and yet we act as though everything is well.

Expectedly, they are planning to gag our feeble, impoverished voices on the social media, whilst our nation is being plundered and led to the precipice. When are we going to wake up to this almost irreversible rot?

I am not surprised that we aren't making significant headway, I would have been surprised if we were anywhere other than where we are.

Buhari phenomenal incompetence should leave anyone worried.

His whack knowledge of economics and his refusal to lean on those brighter than him for the way forward has not only damaged the economy but exacerbating the decay..

The $29b loan is completely uncalled for, most especially as he has proven to be a very poor manager of resources with dismal results.

You mentioned his refusal to end petroleum subsidies and deregulate the oil price. It will surprise you that one of the foundations of the debt crisis that affected many Third World in the 80s was caused by countries borrowing money to subsidize the price of oil during the oil spikes in the 1970s and very early 80s. The were cushioning their citizens from the price increases. When it was time to pay back these loans, they proved unable to.

Buhari has refused to prune the size of the civil service and now burdened by the ungrateful civil servants who wish to earn 30k minimum for doing half-hearted work.

He refused to privatize the refineries and Ajaokuta and instead threw money at them in the vain hope they'll be working again.

His economic sins are too much already and the consequence is lamentable growth rate not even meeting the population growth rate of the country.

grandstar:


Buhari phenomenal incompetence should leave anyone worried.

His whack knowledge of economics and his refusal to lean on those brighter than him for the way forward has not only damaged the economy but exacerbating the decay..

The $29b loan is completely uncalled for, most especially as he has proven to be a very poor manager of resources with dismal results.

You mentioned his refusal to end petroleum subsidies and deregulate the oil price. It will surprise you that one of the foundations of the debt crisis that affected many Third World in the 80s was caused by countries borrowing money to subsidize the price of oil during the oil spikes in the 1970s and very early 80s. The were cushioning their citizens from the price increases. When it was time to pay back these loans, they proved unable to.

Buhari has refused to prune the size of the civil service and now burdened by the ungrateful civil servants who wish to earn 30k minimum for doing half-hearted work.

He refused to privatize the refineries and Ajaokuta and instead threw money at them in the vain hope they'll be working again.

His economic sins are too much already and the consequence is lamentable growth rate not even meeting the population growth rate of the country.

This sins you listed were committed by not only buhari but also his predecessors.

Cherez:

Lol
So, why not import the knowledge which is far more cost saving than the grass?
Mehn, think ahead.
Importing those seedlings is to what end?
Have they not been doing that?
No matter how good a seedling is, you can only tone it to it's natural habitat.
Improved seedlings are finished products of a processing unit.

Lol... you must feel an inner push within you to just oppose and criticise everything right?... You want to re-invent the wheel abi?

Do you know it could take decades of breeding and cross-breeding to produce for example, a flood and pest resistant maize seedling? Not to talk of the possible millions spent in the research and development. Now the improved seed is in the market for N10 from Agric ministry, but instead of simply buying and cultivating and getting a bountiful harvest within 2 months, you want to spend probably 10 years 'making' your own version of the improved seedling because you think you are doing who?

urahara:


These sins you listed were committed by not only buhari but also his predecessors.

That isn't exactly correct

You forgot that OBJ tried to end petrol subsidies as well as Jonathan. Buhari has not. The increase in 2016 was due to the monstrous shortages that led to the worst petrol scarcity the country has ever seen. It was so bad that when the price was increased from 87 to 147, the NLC could not even bring the people out to protest. People just thanked God there was petrol. The scarcity then was caused by the twin problem of heavily subsidized forex and subsidized petrol. Both products suffered from scarcity at the same time. The outcome did not come as a surprise

OBJ privatized the refineries but YarAdua reversed it.

Jonathan might have been a weak and compromising leader but he showed guts and competence in many areas. Towards the end of his administration, he was already working towards pruning down the civil service.

obailala:
Did Nigeria's reserve not drop to $28bn in May 2015?... At that same time, was the country's income not at an all time low? Did Nigeria not have a total debt stock at that same time in 2015 of over $65bn? Debt and reserves (which is more like cash-in-hand), are they the same thing in your understanding of economics?... Please I desperately need an answer from you, what exactly is your point?

I corrected some flaws in a person's argument and you jumped in from nowhere attacking me and saying I'm defending a bad government. But by dishing out fake statistics, poor logic, and/or ignorant comments, how exactly is that the best or noble way to criticise bad governance? Doesn't that make a person even as useless as the useless government being criticised?... Whatever happened to criticising with sound logic? Is tha beyond your capacity as a human?

Like I said before, I wasn't holding brief for any of our useless leaders; I was only trashing some false comments laced with twisted logic. If simply putting out facts or correcting an erroneous belief is what you call 'defence' or 'support' for a govt, then so be it.

Lol, permit me to say you're the one with fake statistics.
First the reserve didnt drop to about $28bn like you posited but to above $30bn(https://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/headlines/194156-nigerias-foreign-reserves-drops-to-30-04bn-cbn.html)
Total debt stock of over $65bn as at May, 2015?
Bros, softly with these lies and figures you cook up. See (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thecable.ng/nigerias-debt-profile-risen-n5-4trn-buharis-govt/amp).
You extrapolated a point to justify a whole system.
Even the dollar explanation you gave is flawed cos truly GEJ messed up but PMB has a lot of blame to take for it due to his bad policies, delays in action and being selfish.

obailala:

Lol... you must feel an inner push within you to just oppose and criticise everything right?... You want to re-invent the wheel abi?

Do you know it could take decades of breeding and cross-breeding to produce for example, a flood and pest resistant maize seedling? Not to talk of the possible millions spent in the research and development. Now the improved seed is in the market for N10 from Agric ministry, but instead of simply buying and cultivating and getting a bountiful harvest within 2 months, you want to spend probably 10 years 'making' your own version of the improved seedling because you think you are doing who?

Bros, you really need a closure.
You started real good but I give up on your mediocre thoughts.
So you believe buying at a subsidized cost of N10 is worth more than owning the production machinery?
Kai, bros lower your ego and learn.
You are against import yet want to remain a consuming economy?
Na so people like you think to manufacture & restructure cars na rocket science until IVM & Proforce proved you guys wrong.
Decades of cross breeding?
Oga, those seedlings are genetically engineered crops (just google monsato & other like companies) and with the technology resident in Nigeria you dont have to keep buying the seedlings but keep improving yours and even export.
You just understand export/import on the surface; import knowledge at a lower cost and develop it into products of export.
You ain't stable with your philosophy; against import but for it

Cherez:

Lol, permit me to say you're the one with fake statistics.
First the reserve didnt drop to about $28bn like you posited but to above $30bn(https://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/headlines/194156-nigerias-foreign-reserves-drops-to-30-04bn-cbn.html)

Bro, does May 2015 and November 2015 sound or look alike in your ears or eyes? How can you provide a news report saying "$30bn in November 2015" as your evidence that my May 2015 figure was wrong?

Meanwhile when I mentioned $28bn was in the reserves, I was only giving an approximation based on what I recall, not exact figures. But since you're trying too hard to play smart, the exact figure as at May 29, 2015 when PMB took over was $28.6bn. Thank you very much for the link you provided, you saved me the energy of googling anything cos that very news link you provided actually mentions $28.6bn (see screenshot below), but because you obviously were in a hurry to respond, you read only the report title (as typical Nigerians do) but couldn't be bothered about the actual content of what you posted; shame!

Cherez:

...
Total debt stock of over $65bn as at May, 2015?
Bros, softly with these lies and figures you cook up. See (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thecable.ng/nigerias-debt-profile-risen-n5-4trn-buharis-govt/amp).
You extrapolated a point to justify a whole system.

I wasn't really wrong when I said total debt stock in June 2015 was ~$65bn. Go back and read that report you posted again, it says the total debt was N12.12 trillion. In June 2015, the official exchange rate was N197/$, that makes the N12.12 trillion roughly about $61bn.

May i tell you something interesting? There's no doubt that our national debt is disturbingly high currently, but the way the whole world blames it on Buhari lately is total political bull crap and just a result of sensational/irresponsible journalism. In dollar terms, PMB has borrowed as much as his predecessor. But when you convert it to Naira, it gives you a shouting headline "12 trillion to 25.7 trillion in 4 years!!!" The exchange rate differentials between 2015 and 2019 is the reason for this popping headline. If it's all in dollars, PMB met a total debt of ~$61bn and the total debt is currently ~$83bn (or even $71bn if we convert with N360).

A lot of people misunderstand the debt statistics due to our irresponsible journalism.

Even the dollar explanation you gave is flawed cos truly GEJ messed up but PMB has a lot of blame to take for it due to his bad policies, delays in action and being selfish.

We all agree that PMB flopped in handling the forex crisis in several areas, but by saying that my dollar exchange rate analysis was wrong, are you by any chance insinuating that the Naira wouldn't have also crashed if GEJ was to have continued in power?

The oil price crash officially began in mid-2014. Are you aware that between September 2014 and May 2015 (when GEJ left), up to ~$10bn ($38bn to $28.6bn) was withdrawn from the foreign reserves to defend the Naira from crashing due to the falling oil prices (I can direct you exactly how to verify this info in the CBN website if you desire)? Are you also aware that as at May 2015 when GEJ left with his team, oil price was still over ~$60/barrel? So despite the fact that ~$10bn was used to defend the Naira in this period and despite the fact that oil still sold for above $60/barrel, do you recall that the Naira still crashed from ~N160/$ to about N230/$ in the parallel market before GEJ left office? This was even with GEJ's 'powerful' economic team.

So if GEJ's 'powerful' economic team couldn't stop the Naira sliding down despite the over $60 oil price and ~$10bn pumped in from the reserves, let us be very very very very very honest here, what magic did you expect a dullardino Buhari's own team to perform when oil prices even crashed further to as low as $28/barrel, and when the reserves were critically low to permit further withdrawals (i.e. zero funds available to defend the Naira)?

obailala:

Bro, does May 2015 and November 2015 sound or look alike in your ears or eyes? How can you provide a news report saying "$30bn in November 2015" as your evidence that my May 2015 figure was wrong?

Meanwhile when I mentioned $28bn was in the reserves, I was only giving an approximation based on what I recall, not exact figures. But since you're trying too hard to play smart, the exact figure as at May 29, 2015 when PMB took over was $28.6bn. Thank you very much for the link you provided, you saved me the energy of googling anything cos that very news link you provided actually mentions $28.6bn (see screenshot below), but because you obviously were in a hurry to respond, you read only the report title (as typical Nigerians do) but couldn't be bothered about the actual content of what you posted; shame!

On this, you're more correct as my memory failed me too.
I didnt read that news today nor did I follow the headline but I knew reserve was above $28bn.
So, I agree to the more correct statistics you presented al binitio.
However, my overall stance remains that this govt is wrong on its policies and your point skews more to agreeing with it.
Well done for the victory, sir

Cherez:

Bros, you really need a closure.
You started real good but I give up on your mediocre thoughts.
So you believe buying at a subsidized cost of N10 is worth more than owning the production machinery?
Kai, bros lower your ego and learn.
You are against import yet want to remain a consuming economy?
Na so people like you think to manufacture & restructure cars na rocket science until IVM & Proforce proved you guys wrong.
Decades of cross breeding?
Oga, those seedlings are genetically engineered crops (just google monsato & other like companies) and with the technology resident in Nigeria you dont have to keep buying the seedlings but keep improving yours and even export.
You just understand export/import on the surface; import knowledge at a lower cost and develop it into products of export.
You ain't stable with your philosophy; against import but for it

Hahahaha... So you think you can just get a machine and start manufacturing improved seedlings overnight? You think say na robot or vehicle you dey produce? This man thinks it's all about genetically modifying a seed in a lab. Funny!

Oga, there is no economic sense in re-inventing the wheel; go and educate yourself and stop embarrassing yourself with these arguments. There is no sense whatsoever in re-creating what has already been created, unless you want to improve on an existing creation. All you need do is to pick that which has been created and reproduce it, or you can improve on it if you need to; no need to re-create from scratch. In agriculture, the simplest way to do this is to take an engineered seed and stick it in the ground to produce 10,000 engineered seeds.

obailala:

Hahahaha... So you think you can just get a machine and start manufacturing improved seedlings overnight? You think say na robot or vehicle you dey produce? This man thinks it's all about genetically modifying a seed in a lab. Funny!

Oga, there is no economic sense in re-inventing the wheel; go and educate yourself and stop embarrassing yourself with these arguments. There is no sense whatsoever in re-creating what has already been created, unless you want to improve on an existing creation. All you need do is to pick that which has been created and reproduce it, or you can improve on it if you need to; no need to re-create from scratch. In agriculture, the simplest way to do this is to take an engineered seed and stick it in the ground to produce 10,000 engineered seeds.

Lol!
One funny thing I learnt as an undergraduate is this; do not doubt in others what you are incapable of.
But I'm not surprised you still have the mentality of your leaders whom are so blind to inputs novel to them.
Machine ke?
Oga, a room is enough to do all these. Gene transfection wont take you much.
If Innoson a non-graduate could do it, you can.
I personally know so well about GM foods and I tell you, it is no biggie. This lab shouldn't take upto 500million and can be used to develop all other seedlings and even animal husbandry.
Keep recycling your old mentality.
Btw, I explained to you before that no matter how good the improved seedling imported is, you need to harness it to adapt better to your own changing environs; it is developing an invention and not re-inventing. Moreover, inventions are unlimited and there are more lands to cover in biogenetics.
Bros, pity yourself spilling this gibberish naaaaa.
If you know nothing about sth, be humble enough to be schooled or go search for it.
Na so una dey Rwanda get phone factory, soon na Ghana una go import seedlings from.
These technologies are no biggies, just give the younger generations instruments to play around these things and you'll be amazed at our progress. But NO your retrogressive mind wont understand it but keep supporting what you lack understanding of.
Oga, go and sleep but before you do go find out about IITA, get schooled.
Our govt can partner with these guys or even develop state specific institutes

Cherez:

Lol!
One funny thing I learnt as an undergraduate is this; do not doubt in others what you are incapable of.
But I'm not surprised you still have the mentality of your leaders whom are so blind to inputs novel to them.
Machine ke?
Oga, a room is enough to do all these. Gene transfection wont take you much.
If Innoson a non-graduate could do it, you can.
I personally know so well about GM foods and I tell you, it is no biggie. This lab shouldn't take upto 500million and can be used to develop all other seedlings and even animal husbandry.
Keep recycling your old mentality.
Btw, I explained to you before that no matter how good the improved seedling imported is, you need to harness it to adapt better to your own changing environs; it is developing an invention and not re-inventing. Moreover, inventions are unlimited and there are more lands to cover in biogenetics.
Bros, pity yourself spilling this gibberish naaaaa.
If you know nothing about sth, be humble enough to be schooled or go search for it.
Na so una dey Rwanda get phone factory, soon na Ghana una go import seedlings from.
These technologies are no biggies, just give the younger generations instruments to play around these things and you'll be amazed at our progress. But NO your retrogressive mind wont understand it but keep supporting what you lack understanding of.
Oga, go and sleep but before you do go find out about IITA, get schooled.
Our govt can partner with these guys or even develop state specific institutes

With the bolded part of your post above, you've shifted the goalpost by agreeing with me that it makes no sense to re-invent what already exists; it only makes sense to 'improve' on it. For you to improve or 'harness' something which already exists, wouldn't you acquire it first?

From what I gather, you claim it was "backward mentality" for Nigeria to buy for example, the flood resistance rice variety which has facilitated the rice cultivation boom in the last 6 years? Your point is that we should have developed or "manufactured" the improved seedling from scratch, and that is probably what will make us a modern society. Oga, no modern society re-invents what already exists, especially in agriculture - it would be pointless and in fact silly. Agriculture is different from manufacturing, so stop this your innoson example, Innoson is producing cars, not 'inventing' cars. In agriculture, the way to produce is to stick the damn seed in the ground.

Stop trying too hard to win an argument that doesn't exist man. Like I said in my original post which you initially disagreed with, there is absolutely nothing wrong with buying improved seedlings to cultivate in your farm. If you want to later improve on it through bio-genetics or bio-engineering, that is a totally different kettle of fish, a different topic of discussion here.

obailala:

With the bolded part of your post above, you've shifted the goalpost by agreeing with me that it makes no sense to re-invent what already exists; it only makes sense to 'improve' on it. For you to improve or 'harness' something which already exists, wouldn't you acquire it first?

From what I gather, you claim it was "backward mentality" for Nigeria to buy for example, the flood resistance rice variety which has facilitated the rice cultivation boom in the last 6 years? Your point is that we should have developed or "manufactured" the improved seedling from scratch, and that is probably what will make us a modern society. Oga, no modern society re-invents what already exists, especially in agriculture - it would be pointless and in fact silly. Agriculture is different from manufacturing, so stop this your innoson example, Innoson is producing cars, not 'inventing' cars. In agriculture, the way to produce is to stick the damn seed in the ground.

Stop trying too hard to win an argument that doesn't exist man. Like I said in my original post which you initially disagreed with, there is absolutely nothing wrong with buying improved seedlings to cultivate in your farm. If you want to later improve on it through bio-genetics or bio-engineering, that is a totally different kettle of fish, a different topic of discussion here.

Guy, here is a screenshot of my point that you tone a good seedling but in it's natural habitat.
Like I've said, your point is to win this argument but my aim isnt to but grind out facts.
You just talk out of fact.
See, in plain words; you dont need the seeds.
With the right equipments and the knowledge of the epigenetics(the structure of a genome based on silenced & active gene sequenced) of a particular genome for a specific trait, I could get you a seedling of a desired trait without even seeing the parent seedling, all that is required is gene mapping
Kai!
Now, is it not better that we have people in a national lab that farmers can always send recommendations of seed types they require depending on their soil structure, type, climate & other bioconditions?
It may not necessarily be re-inventing but further development.
Our thoughts on this are in the parallel as I never agreed with you.
Developing a seed that can grow in oil-spilled places is also an area of research where lots of inventions can happen.
A simple analogy for you is the phone company; you dont claim you wanna import phones cos you dont need a factory(lab) that produces phones(improved seedlings) cos it seems as if you're re-inventing phones (seedling technology).
That phone company even make phones in Hausa or other languages or even make phones that dont get too hot suiting our weather as further improvements.
Quit this re-inventing word you misuse

Cherez:

Guy, here is a screenshot of my point that you tone a good seedling but in it's natural habitat.
Like I've said, your point is to win this argument but my aim isnt to but grind out facts.
You just talk out of fact.
See, in plain words; you dont need the seeds.
With the right equipments and the knowledge of the epigenetics(the structure of a genome based on silenced & active gene sequenced) of a particular genome for a specific trait, I could get you a seedling of a desired trait without even seeing the parent seedling, all that is required is gene mapping
Kai!
Now, is it not better that we have people in a national lab that farmers can always send recommendations of seed types they require depending on their soil structure, type, climate & other bioconditions?
It may not necessarily be re-inventing but further development.
Our thoughts on this are in the parallel as I never agreed with you.
Developing a seed that can grow in oil-spilled places is also an area of research where lots of inventions can happen.
A simple analogy for you is the phone company; you dont claim you wanna import phones cos you dont need a factory(lab) that produces phones(improved seedlings) cos it seems as if you're re-inventing phones (seedling technology).
That phone company even make phones in Hausa or other languages or even make phones that dont get too hot suiting our weather as further improvements.
Quit this re-inventing word you misuse

My point was simple - we want to produce a particular kind of nutritional grass variety that could help improve livestock production. There are 2 options:
1. Take the seedling from brazil, and plant it widescale in selected reserves in Nigeria, thereby producing as much quantity as we want here at home (this is just the same way Malaysia and Indonesia took palm seeds from Nigeria some decades ago and are now producing more palm produce than we).

2. Go into the lab and start doing bio-engineering to produce the already existing seeds.

You said Option 1 wasn't economical, but I disagree with you; Option 1 is clearly the more economical approach to producing what we want in a short space of time. I didnt say it wasnt a good idea for our scientists to work on improving the varieties later, but in the time being, the more economic and time friendly approach was to take an existing seed and plant it.

You obviously keep sounding as though the grass is to be imported for consumption, NO the seed was to be imported for planting.

obailala:

My point was simple - we want to produce a particular kind of nutritional grass variety that could help improve livestock production. There are 2 options:
1. Take the seedling from brazil, and plant it widescale in selected reserves in Nigeria, thereby producing as much quantity as we want here at home (this is just the same way Malaysia and Indonesia took palm seeds from Nigeria some decades ago and are now producing more palm produce than we).

2. Go into the lab and start doing bio-engineering to produce the already existing seeds.

You said Option 1 wasn't economical, but I disagree with you; Option 1 is clearly the more economical approach to producing what we want in a short space of time. I didnt say it wasnt a good idea for our scientists to work on improving the varieties later, but in the time being, the more economic and time friendly approach was to take an existing seed and plant it.

You obviously keep sounding as though the grass is to be imported for consumption, NO the seed was to be imported for planting.

None of what you said was my point.
My point was take a permanent and more sustainable way out.
You import the seedlings today and they create another one after 1yr and you still require it while they play you like electronics & phone companies who keep feeling out new phones yearly?
Since my birth, Naija has been buying distributing improved seedling, oga to what end?
My point is, go to the lab and produce seedlings specific to your needs.
Go and study lots of journals on diseases and you find out that malaria isnt a focus cos it is not Oyinbo man's problem but the black man could have gone far with malaria if they had such labs tapering research to their specific problems.
See, before you move those seeds from Brazil, a professional with the right gene mapping would have give you better results with our existing plants.

Cherez:

None of what you said was my point.
My point was take a permanent and more sustainable way out.
You import the seedlings today and they create another one after 1yr and you still require it while they play you like electronics & phone companies who keep feeling out new phones yearly?
Since my birth, Naija has been buying distributing improved seedling, oga to what end?
My point is, go to the lab and produce seedlings specific to your needs.
Go and study lots of journals on diseases and you find out that malaria isnt a focus cos it is not Oyinbo man's problem but the black man could have gone far with malaria if they had such labs tapering research to their specific problems.
See, before you move those seeds from Brazil, a professional with the right gene mapping would have give you better results with our existing plants.

I didnt say our scientist shouldn't work on developing new improved seedlings when needed, but if an improved variety already exists, what's the wisdom in re-inventing it? Every country buys improved seeds so what's wrong if Nigeria does same? There's no wisdom re-inventing what already exists.

If there's a special type of sweet mango in Germany for instance, if we need this mango variety in large quantities in Nigeria, the economic and commonsensical thing to do is to take the seed from Germany and grow the tree in Nigeria. You don't need to start the engineering process afresh for something that already exists; you arent trying to impress anyone. That effort can be spent engineering something else.

obailala:
I didnt say our scientist shouldn't work on developing new improved seedlings when needed, but if an improved variety already exists, what's the wisdom in re-inventing it? Every country buys improved seeds so what's wrong if Nigeria does same? There's no wisdom re-inventing what already exists.

If there's a special type of sweet mango in Germany for instance, if we need this mango variety in large quantities in Nigeria, the economic and commonsensical thing to do is to take the seed from Germany and grow the tree in Nigeria. You don't need to start the engineering process afresh for something that already exists; you arent trying to impress anyone. That effort can be spent engineering something else.

Obailala, after this I speak no more.
Can you grow apple in Nigeria?
Same mango might not grow here without certain conditions.
Gene's for most crops and Animals has been sequenced and properly mapped, there are databases for it.
Albeit, going to the lab doesnt mean re-inventing but like a production machinery using a template(here the genetic mapping for such needed trait).
If you need the German mango, why go import a container of it?
Just profile one seed, get the info here, multiply it and even improve on it.
We only need to access these databases and do the needful if our govt is serious but no, they want a bogus contract oversee hard to trace fraud.
How many country buys improved seed?
Now you know countries buy improved seed and not also buys food items?
Now you keep going back to the import you so resented?

Cherez:

Obailala, after this I speak no more.
Can you grow apple in Nigeria?
Same mango might not grow here without certain conditions.
Gene's for most crops and Animals has been sequenced and properly mapped, there are databases for it.
Albeit, going to the lab doesnt mean re-inventing but like a production machinery using a template(here the genetic mapping for such needed trait).
If you need the German mango, why go import a container of it?
Just profile one seed, get the info here, multiply it and even improve on it.
We only need to access these databases and do the needful if our govt is serious but no, they want a bogus contract oversee hard to trace fraud.
How many country buys improved seed?
Now you know countries buy improved seed and not also buys food items?
Now you keep going back to the import you so resented?

Oga, I am not a dunce who doesn't know that most apples or some other fruit varieties cannot grow in Nigeria. So when I say "get a seed and plant in Nigeria", isn't it obvious to you that I'm referring to something that can actually thrive in our environment?

You see the bolded part of your message above? That exactly is your problem; you so far have demonstrated an inability to differentiate 'seed' (raw material) from a fruit (finished product), that's why you keep referring to 'seed' as 'importing containers'. If I want 100 mangoes (finished product), all I need is 1 seed (raw material) to grow a tree, not a container of mangoes (finished product). It only makes economic common sense to go into genetic mapping and whatever if the kind of mango I want cannot be grown in Nigeria.

Your reasoning is what happens when a person becomes too educated and wants to show off 'intelligence'; instead of fetching water from a tap or stream to drink, you want to go into the lab to synthesize Hydrogen and Oxygen to create drinkable 'dihydrogen monoxide'.. I greet you

obailala:

Oh your argument is no longer "Buhari is stealing subsidy"? It has now shifted to "buhari is the one that crashed the Naira"? This is a typical example of what happens when emotions and foolishness is placed before logic.

Meanwhile when you and your countrymen have an inordinate appetite for imported goods, (including imported toothpick) in a country that depends on only one source of income (oil), the currency crashing at every oil price shock becomes inevitable especially when your useless leaders do not have the foresight and discipline to save sufficient funds in its foreign reserves. Buhari isnt the one who made Nigeria to depend only on oil, neither is he the one that forced you to kill all your refineries thereby spending 60% of its forex importing petrol and kerosene; PMB isn't also the one who depeleted the reserves making it impossible to defend the Naira when the oil crisis was critical.

FYI, the Naira's value has progressively devalued under every single regime. When OBJ entered, Naira was less than N80/$, when he left it was about N120-150/$. When GEJ entered, despite unprecedented oil income, Naira still crashed from N150/$ to N230/$ in the parallel market. The entire crash under GEJ happened in the last few months due to a sudden oil crash despite desperate efforts made using funds in the reserves to defend the Naira. The oil crash worsened and persisted after PMB took over and at the time he took over, the reserve was critically low to permit further withdrawals to defend the Naira. Only a fellow having boiled indomie in place of brain cells would have expected magic to have happened for the Naira not to crash... Nuff said!

Now quit blabbing out off point let's go back to the topic of discussion

Go n Die

1nigeriamyfoot:

Go n Die

Lol... Bro, I cannot die but live and testify to God's goodness, I cannot die until I fulfil the number of my years here on earth and see my children and children's children grow and blossom into great men and women.

obailala:
I didnt say our scientist shouldn't work on developing new improved seedlings when needed, but if an improved variety already exists, what's the wisdom in re-inventing it? Every country buys improved seeds so what's wrong if Nigeria does same? There's no wisdom re-inventing what already exists.

If there's a special type of sweet mango in Germany for instance, if we need this mango variety in large quantities in Nigeria, the economic and commonsensical thing to do is to take the seed from Germany and grow the tree in Nigeria. You don't need to start the engineering process afresh for something that already exists; you arent trying to impress anyone. That effort can be spent engineering something else.

The major disease of most Nigerians is pride always demanding undue reverence.
See this news bro
https://www.nairaland.com/5584024/nigeria-releases-first-transgenic-crop
Keep being antiquated & refusing to learn over things you have no iota of knowledge about

Cherez:

The major disease of most Nigerians is pride always demanding undue reverence.
See this news bro
https://www.nairaland.com/5584024/nigeria-releases-first-transgenic-crop
Keep being antiquated & refusing to learn over things you have no iota of knowledge about

Lol.. This man! the pride you talk about is the only reason you have been unable to understand a simple common sense economic concept - "it is pointless to re-invent the wheel, except you want to improve an existing design." Your argument is sounding like a village scientist who wants to 'show off' to his village people, so instead of simply fetching water from the tap, he goes into the lab to synthesize H2 and O2 to get drinking water; Oga there is no sense whatsoever in that.

Like I said a countless number of times, there is nothing wrong with Nigerian scientists developing new varieties, so I'm confused at why you're sending me the above link? How exactly does it deviate or contradict what I've been saying? The new Nigerian environment-compatible cowpea variety produced by the AATF, did it exist before now?

There is nothing wrong with local scientists developing new plant varieties, but there is no sense re-inventing what already exists if you can simply reproduce it. It only makes sense if you want to produce a new variety which doesn't yet exist, or if you want to modify an existing one so it can grow in your backyard, or if you want to improve an already existing one. Heck! how is English too difficult to understand these days?

Oga scientist, how exactly is the above common sense so difficult for you to understand?

obailala:

Lol.. This man! the pride you talk about is the only reason you have been unable to understand a simple common sense economic concept - "it is pointless to re-invent the wheel, except you want to improve an existing design." Your argument is sounding like a village scientist who wants to 'show off' to his village people, so instead of simply fetching water from the tap, he goes into the lab to synthesize H2 and O2 to get drinking water; Oga there is no sense whatsoever in that.

Like I said a countless number of times, there is nothing wrong with Nigerian scientists developing new varieties, so I'm confused at why you're sending me the above link? How exactly does it deviate or contradict what I've been saying? The new Nigerian environment-compatible cowpea variety produced by the AATF, did it exist before now?

There is nothing wrong with local scientists developing new plant varieties, but there is no sense re-inventing what already exists if you can simply reproduce it. It only makes sense if you want to produce a new variety which doesn't yet exist, or if you want to modify an existing one so it can grow in your backyard, or if you want to improve an already existing one. Heck! how is English too difficult to understand these days?

Oga scientist, how exactly is the above common sense so difficult for you to understand?

I'd like to ask a simple question bros.
How is it re-inventing the wheel to produce cars with super radiators adapting to our temperate climate?
How is it wheel re-inventing to develop what you already have to suit you better?
That's how people get stagnant, calling IMPROVEMENT wheel RE-INVENTING while people are growing.