Ok

jesusjnr:
Does The Success Of A Church Consist In The Abundance Of Possession It Has?

It depends on the point of view from which the success of a church was being adjudged.

If from that of men and the world who use such material basis to measure success, the answer to the question would be in the affirmative.

But if it be from that of God, the answer would be "NO", because God doesn't use the abundance of possession as a measure of success as was depicted in this saying of Jesus:

"A man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth." {Luke 12:15 (KJV)}

And since a church is made up of men, that means the same applies to a church, that it's success of doesn't consist in the abundance of possession it has in the sight of God.

That illustrates how a church which is successful in the sight of men and the world, can be a failure to God and vice versa.

And since the church is not supposed to be of the world, but of God, it means it shouldn't be up to the world to determine the success of the church but God.

Therefore whenever the success of a church is adjudged on the basis of the abundance of possession it has, it's being done in error because that is not of God..

The success of a church is determined by the extent to which it abides by the teachings and instructions of Jesus.

That is why the most successful church up til date is that which Jesus built, because despite that it didn't have close to the abundance of possession that some churches now boast of, it is the church that abode by the teachings and instructions of Jesus the most.

God bless.

What is the name of the church that Jesus built and where is the location?

jesusjnr
Money comes in three ways.
1. God gives money(Job), (Deut.8:18, Hag 2:8, Ps 50:12)
2. Satan also gives money.(Mt 4:9)
3. Your skills and developed abilities under two categories
(a) derived from Adam i.e. naturally developed (still from the Creator though) or
(b)from your spiritual gift (believers in Christ)
Both 3(a) and 3(b) give money and that is whether the natural/spiritual gift is used under God's template of the selflessness of Christ or selfishly (including taking advantage of/manipulating others)

(1)and (2) come at a difficult price however. Hence majority of human population (including believers today) falls in category (3)(a or b)

But if ministerial success was based on finance, Paul, as well as other apostles(Acts3:6), was certainly a failure because not only did he not always have (Php 4:12, 2Cor 11:27) but he even raised poor churches he had to support from other wealthier churches (2Cor 8:11-14). But success in ministry to them was to present everyone perfect in Christ(Col 1:28-29, 2Pet 1:12-15). For this, they in fact chose to give up gain(financial profits)(1Tim6:11-12) even to the point of dissociating with those that pursued gain(1Tim6:5-6). Only God knows how many ministers Paul would have dissociated with today.


Also, church of Laodicea comes to mind. They were indeed wealthy in silver and gold(Rev 3:17), yet were the most rebuked church of all the churches in God's judgement(Rev 3:16-18).


Conclusion: Money is innocent(the maker and user may not be). Money is useful for doing both good and evil. But in view of eternal judgement, give it only its due place.

The church being successful isn't sadonic buh what I find horrible is the manner in which this resources is being utilized on personal acquisitions by this merchant yahoo+ men of God .. Rather dan for charity and helping the poor in society.

StrikeBack:
Church business in Pentecostal settings is purely CAPITALIST business.

The rich keeps getting richer and the poor Poorer. Once Nigeria can boast of 24/7 electricity,good roads, good leaders and Effective transportation, only then would our eyes be opened.

I disagree that the Pentecostal are capitalist. They are only better at managing what is available.
The orthodox church seems to be manned by crooks and dubious character the members don't trust the leadership enough to give them resources in large amount.

If a church like winners announces a project and gives a date, though they won't organize launching and fundraising in the due date, the project will be delivered and to best standard but an Orthodox church embarks on a simple church building and year after year the project is not completed even with grand launching and fundraising including strange events like gambling...raffles draws. Bazaars where items are sold way beyond their market values

Example, the catholic church in the 90s announced it was going to set up a university in Abuja and did launching where billionaires we're invited, the event on on national tv back then but till date there is no proper university that is worth the hype of those days.

I remember this event because I was involved then.

jesusjnr:
Does The Success Of A Church Consist In The Abundance Of Possession It Has?

It depends on the point of view from which the success of a church was being adjudged.

If from that of men and the world who use such material basis to measure success, the answer to the question would be in the affirmative.

But if it be from that of God, the answer would be "NO", because God doesn't use the abundance of possession as a measure of success as was depicted in this saying of Jesus:

"A man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth." {Luke 12:15 (KJV)}

And since a church is made up of men, that means the same applies to a church, that it's success of doesn't consist in the abundance of possession it has in the sight of God.

That illustrates how a church which is successful in the sight of men and the world, can be a failure to God and vice versa.

And since the church is not supposed to be of the world, but of God, it means it shouldn't be up to the world to determine the success of the church but God.

Therefore whenever the success of a church is adjudged on the basis of the abundance of possession it has, it's being done in error because that is not of God..

The success of a church is determined by the extent to which it abides by the teachings and instructions of Jesus.

That is why the most successful church up til date is that which Jesus built, because despite that it didn't have close to the abundance of possession that some churches now boast of, it is the church that abode by the teachings and instructions of Jesus the most.

God bless.

That is what the devil is using to destroy the world today, pride, God warned us against Coverteousnes, which which is the reason there's high rate of crime in our society today.

Life does not consist of the aboundant of your possession but the life you touch or make better, unfortunately fear, poverty has closed/block their ears from the truth.
How will a Church boost of been the richest while over 50% of your member are extremely poor?

It is well with the body of Christ.

Rehard bonke is the only man of God I know.


Rabbi" the man who practices the Jewish Christianity is also good but he problem I have with him is that he pleads for donations too.much

Nodogragra4me:



What is the name of the church that Jesus built and where is the location?

The Church of Jesus is the truth (true Christian), it is spiritual not physical.
Until you know the difference between spiritual and physical.......

Nodogragra4me:



What is the name of the church that Jesus built and where is the location?

@Desiredhome has already answered your question, but here's the saying of Jesus to back up what he said:

18 "Upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." {Matthew 16:18 (KJV)}

desiredhome:

The Church of Jesus is the truth (true Christian), it is spiritual not physical.
Until you know the difference between spiritual and physical.......

I checked to be sure of the source of the rejoinder and discovered you weren't the person mentioned. Therefore, you are assuming that you know what he meant though assumption is the least form of knowledge.

Now to your input, if the church of Jesus is the truth then where is this church of Jesus to be found, is there no gathering that can be termed the church of Jesus?

And since it is spiritual and not physical, does it mean that there is not physical address for the church of Jesus where those interested can walk into anywhere on earth?

Amanda4life:
Rehard bonke is the only man of God I know.


Rabbi" the man who practices the Jewish Christianity is also good but he problem I have with him is that he pleads for donations too.much

Please who is this Rabbi?

jesusjnr:


@Desiredhome has already answered your question, but here's the saying of Jesus to back up what he said:

Matthew 16:18 (KJV)

18 "Upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Where is the rock located or it is all spiritual and invisible to the unsaved

desiredhome:

That is what the devil is using to destroy the world today, pride, God warned us against Coverteousnes, which which is the reason there's high rate of crime in our society today.

Life does not consist of the aboundant of your possession but the life you touch or make better, unfortunately fear, poverty has closed/block their ears from the truth.
How will a Church boost of been the richest while over 50% of your member are extremely poor?

Sid you take a survey of the members and found fifty percent of them to be poor hag band-aid you judge them poor?

How many of the members known to you can you honestly raise your hands up and declare yourself financially better than. and if we are to go by the reasoning of the op it is all spiritual and has nothing to do with the physical.

By the say, mention a single many poor person or family Jesus made rich that you exodus any church to make members rich

ACRI:



Read your bible more sis

The way to salvation is not selling all your property n following Jesus. Stop quoting the bible in isolation ....Jesus was talking to an intending disciple who was worldly.

Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

I am sorry but you are a victim of the 'quoting in isolation'. so just confessing and believing is all that is needed?

Nodogragra4me:


Where is the rock located or it is all spiritual and invisible to the unsaved

This was the church Jesus built upon the Rock (His Words):

Acts 2:1-11 (KJV)

1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Acts 4:31-35 (KJV)

31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Nodogragra4me:



Sid you take a survey of the members and found fifty percent of them to be poor hag band-aid you judge them poor?

How many of the members known to you can you honestly raise your hands up and declare yourself financially better than. and if we are to go by the reasoning of the op it is all spiritual and has nothing to do with the physical.

By the say, mention a single many poor person or family Jesus made rich that you exodus any church to make members rich

A typical example of a Suffering and Smiling Nigerian, when the world report said Nigeria is the poorest in the world, people like you will deny that report,
I am very sure people like you are among the Nigerians shouting hunger in land or suffering of Nigerians
Continue in your deceit

Nodogragra4me:



I checked to be sure of the source of the rejoinder and discovered you weren't the person mentioned. Therefore, you are assuming that you know what he meant though assumption is the least form of knowledge.

Now to your input, if the church of Jesus is the truth then where is this church of Jesus to be found, is there no gathering that can be termed the church of Jesus?

And since it is spiritual and not physical, does it mean that there is not physical address for the church of Jesus where interested can walk into anywhere on earth?

That statement is for the real Christian, not for a Papa Say or my pastor say Christian, I don't expect you to understand it.

Charly68:
Truth be told ,God is interested in territorial control..hence the advancement of a church in this regards symbolizes divine enlargement. It does not amount to materialism as many presume. Except otherwise proven,God has foretold that his kingdom on earth shall be built through prosperity .

Where did God tell you that his church shall be built through prosperity? Where is that written in the Bible

Yes . For Nigerians.

desiredhome:

That statement is for the real Christian, not for a Papa Say or my pastor say Christian, I don't expect you to understand it.

The only spirit in you is the spirit of pride and God personally resist the proud. Therefore, if God is resisting you and your imaginary real Christian title, who am I to join issues with you.
Nothing about Christ is at work in your in life, I swear to God.

Christ greatest request is for any of his follower to make disciples of nations and here you are on nairaland yet to win a single soul to Christ and thinking yourself a real Christ filled with the spirit of pride and envious of those who have their names firmly written in the sands of times.

Christ ask you to do greater works. Not greater criticism... Greater works are not hidden. Works have proofs

What is your worth to Christ? Reward is for faithful servants not arm chair critics.

What have you done for God's kingdom in your entire life

Arrogance of ignorance

desiredhome:

A typical example of a Suffering and Smiling Nigerian, when the world report said Nigeria is the poorest in the world, people like you will deny that report,
I am very sure people like you are among the Nigerians shouting hunger in land or suffering of Nigerians
Continue in your deceit

If you have any modicum of sense you would know that a man of age doesn't make statement without empirical evidence.
You state that half the population of a man's church are poor and I ask for your proof and you left that to bring in world report.

I thought you are the ”real Christian ” and yet didn't know that in all of Egypt was there no light except in Goshen.

Small boys everywhere exaggerating their worth and opinions

jesusjnr:
That's a man who truly knew what the success of a church/man consists of in the sight of God.

And I hope other church leaders can take a cue from him

So you are hoping most church leaders would stop chasing after a life of luxury...money and earthly possessions? ... and the church must no longer be rated by their massive structure ...rich members and bank accounts? Oh well..... we can all have hopes/dreams

expert234:


Where
did God tell you that his church shall be built through prosperity? Where is that written in the Bible

Read Zechariah 1:17 please and confirm

Nodogragra4me:



If you have any modicum of sense you would know that a man of age doesn't make statement without empirical evidence.
You state that half the population of a man's church are poor and I ask for your proof and you left that to bring in world report.

I thought you are the ”real Christian ” and yet didn't know that in all of Egypt was there no light except in Goshen.

Small boys everywhere xaggerating their worth and opinions

What prove do you need to know that Nigerians are suffering including your pastorprenour followers/members like you? That Nigeria life expectancy is among the lowest due to stress and suffering in the land? cocy of our politicians and your pastorprenours? are your members not in Nigeria suffering same?
I will like to suggest you travel to any civilised country and see how things are for you to understand what a goodlife is all about, then you will realize that Nigeria is a living hell fire.
Just stop being silly

Yes, The Success of a Church also consist of the abundance of possession it has. but idolizing it, is SIN

Nodogragra4me:

The only spirit in you is the spirit of pride and God personally resist the proud. Therefore, if God is resisting you and your imaginary real Christian title, who am I to join issues with you.
Nothing about Christ is at work in your in life, I swear to God.

Christ greatest request is for any of his follower to make disciples of nations and here you are on nairaland yet to win a single soul to Christ and thinking yourself a real Christ filled with the spirit of pride and envious of those who have their names firmly written in the sands of times.

Christ ask you to do greater works. Not greater criticism... Greater works are not hidden. Works have proofs

What is your worth to Christ? Reward is for faithful servants not arm chair critics.

What have you done for God's kingdom in your entire life

Arrogance of ignorance

Typing rubbish and you think you are making sense, proberbly you don't know what soul wining mean..... instead of you to preach Christ and win souls, you mistaking bringing members to church to winning souls,......
You are only after members to increase your monetary profit yet you have no love/care for them even when Christ commands that the greatest of all commandments is love,.
if your soul wining as practice by you is real then Nigeria would be the best country to live in.
If you have sense you should think and ask yourself, with all the Churches all over the place, night vigil, casting and binding etc that you do yet crimes are in the increase?
Zombi will always be a Zombi anywhere

Grace, faith, hope, love etc are all freely given by God and these are the essence of Christianity. Do not allow any one deceive you for as Jesus said, you are in the world but not of the world so work out your salvation in fear and trembling.

A church is successful if It has been able to complete the assignment that was given to it

Hmmm