@Bobbyaf and bari_kade,

You have both argued back and forth on this issue and have passionately put your views across. However, I am concerned that the discussion is spiralling out of context on either side and thus leaving some fundamental questions yet unattended. This will only lead to more questions being raised, more arguments fomented, heated debates vamped up, and readers somewhat more confused than when we first began.

On either side, we should please aim for simplicity in our discussions. While not quickly laying blame yet on anyone (as surely there are shortcomings), there are yet fantastic points which could be sifted from both sides.

For instance, I'm strongly persuaded by bari_kade's insight that any Christian making a case for keeping a Sabbath Law is bound to do so by following its stringent stipulations. That at once deflates Bobbyaf's evasions and counter arguments for any so-called 'exemptions'. The Law allowed for no such exemptions at all.

On the other hand, Bobbyaf makes a good point about connecting the origins of the Sabbath to Genesis 2:3; but his premises are all the more flawed by confusing the Sabbath commandment in Exodus and divorcing it from its stipulations.

My concerns, however, are about whether or not we have been asking the right questions and seeking to address the fundamental issues on this topic. We should not so be enslaved to observing a day - any day for that matter (Gal. 4:9-11). The one thing that should occupy our hearts is the Lord Himself. That is why I so appreciate the point bari_kade brought up about 1 Cor. 11:24 & 25 where the apostle Paul reiterated the Lord's appeal: this do in remembrance of ME!

But is there anything wrong with worshipping on Saturday? Romans 14:5 gives us freedom in the Lord Jesus Christ where each person should be fully persuaded in their own minds. The base line is that, Sabbatarians should not argue to judge other Christians who do not keep a Saturday sabbath (Col. 2:16). And non-sabbatarians should be careful that they do not judge their sabbath-keeping brethren. Remember that whatever we do, we should not put a stumbling block in the path of others (I Cor. 8:9).

Although we individually possess brilliant minds in our various persuasions, we should aim for simplicity and the grace given us in the Lord Jesus Christ to seek the welfare of others. For this reason, perhaps Gal. 5:14-15 is appropriate to close my comments:

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.


God bless y'all.

@ barikade

Its people like you that Jesus would have rebuked about falsely representing the sabbath. Your attempt to pin down stipulations that were meant for the hebrews in a particular setting, and applying them to SDAs is nothing short of ridiculous, and you know it.

The Jewish teachers prided themselves on their knowledge of the Scriptures, and in the Saviour's answer there was an implied rebuke for their ignorance of the Sacred Writings. "Have ye not read so much as this," He said, "what David did, when himself was an hungered, and they which were with him; how he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, . . . which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?" "And He said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." "Have ye not read in the law, how that on the Sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple." "The Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath." Luke 6:3, 4; Mark 2:27, 28; Matt. 12:5, 6.[/

Was David condemned for not following temple stipulations? Were the priests condemned for having to work in the temple on the sabbath? Obviously not! Why not?

If it was right for David to satisfy his hunger by eating of the bread that had been set apart to a holy use, then it was right for the disciples to supply their need by plucking the grain upon the sacred hours of the Sabbath. Again, the priests in the temple performed greater labor on the Sabbath than upon other days. The same labor in secular business would be sinful; but the work of the priests was in the service of God. They were performing those rites that pointed to the redeeming power of Christ, and their labor was in harmony with the object of the Sabbath. But now Christ Himself had come. The disciples, in doing the work of Christ, were engaged in God's service, and that which was necessary for the accomplishment of this work it was right to do on the Sabbath day.

I notice you keeep harping on my choosing to help the sick on the sabbath, as if to judge me of breaking the stipulated ways of sabbath observation, yet you do not dare accuse Jesus of sabbath breaking when He Himself asserted that it was lawful or permitted to do good on the sabbath, despite the work expended to do good. How come? I wonder who is being pharasaical about keeping the sabbath? You amaze me! 

@Bobbyaf,

Bobbyaf:

Its people like you that Jesus would have rebuked about falsely representing the sabbath. Your attempt to pin down stipulations that were meant for the hebrews in a particular setting, and applying them to SDAs is nothing short of ridiculous, and you know it.

In that case, I would go along with bari_kade's persuasions, and strongly so. Calling the Word of God ridiculous in an unrepentant spirit that fails to examine the stipulations of the Sabbath Law will only continue to throw out your arguments.

If you want to take your sabbath Law from EXODUS, then you are bound to keep it with its stipulations - nothing less of that, because the Law made no room for any type of exemptions or excuses!

Bobbyaf:

Was David condemned for not following temple stipulations? Were the priests condemned for having to work in the temple on the sabbath? Obviously not! Why not?

That is no excuse for arguing that Christians should keep the sabbath law. David committed adultery with Uriah's wife - is that an excuse that you would one day do the same with a sister in SDA because God forgave David?

Bobbyaf:

I notice you keeep harping on my choosing to help the sick on the sabbath, as if to judge me of breaking the stipulated ways of sabbath observation, yet you do not dare accuse Jesus of sabbath breaking when He Himself asserted that it was lawful or permitted to do good on the sabbath, despite the work expended to do good. How come?

I don't read him as judging you. The difference is quite clear: Jesus did not work as a professional in helping the sick; whereas your argument convinces readers that you're excusing the fact that you work for your pockets. If you really want to help the sick on your chosen sabbath, go to work every sabbath day and reject any salaries that would acrue to you on such days that you sign into work!

Bobbyaf:

I wonder who is being pharasaical about keeping the sabbath? You amaze me! 

Obviously, you have been. How? Making excuses for a sabbath law from Exodus that you do not understand. 

@Bobbyaf,

Bobbyaf:

Its people like you that Jesus would have rebuked about falsely representing the sabbath. Your attempt to pin down stipulations that were meant for the hebrews in a particular setting, and applying them to SDAs is nothing short of ridiculous, and you know it.

God's Word is not ridiculous. But if this is getting you really upset, I'll forebear.

The Jewish teachers prided themselves on their knowledge of the Scriptures, and in the Saviour's answer there was an implied rebuke for their ignorance of the Sacred Writings. "Have ye not read so much as this," He said, "what David did, when himself was an hungered, and they which were with him; how he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, . . . which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?" "And He said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." "Have ye not read in the law, how that on the Sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple." "The Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath." Luke 6:3, 4; Mark 2:27, 28; Matt. 12:5, 6.[/

and:

If it was right for David to satisfy his hunger by eating of the bread that had been set apart to a holy use, then it was right for the disciples to supply their need by plucking the grain upon the sacred hours of the Sabbath. Again, the priests in the temple performed greater labor on the Sabbath than upon other days. The same labor in secular business would be sinful; but the work of the priests was in the service of God. They were performing those rites that pointed to the redeeming power of Christ, and their labor was in harmony with the object of the Sabbath. But now Christ Himself had come. The disciples, in doing the work of Christ, were engaged in God's service, and that which was necessary for the accomplishment of this work it was right to do on the Sabbath day.

I've seen those articles before and they do not represent a clear picture from Scripture. This is where I read about them a few weeks ago:

http://www.sabbathtruth.com/jesus_taught.asp

Bobbyaf:

Was David condemned for not following temple stipulations? Were the priests condemned for having to work in the temple on the sabbath? Obviously not! Why not?

I appreciate Telly B's response to that.

Bobbyaf:

I notice you keeep harping on my choosing to help the sick on the sabbath, as if to judge me of breaking the stipulated ways of sabbath observation, yet you do not dare accuse Jesus of sabbath breaking when He Himself asserted that it was lawful or permitted to do good on the sabbath, despite the work expended to do good. How come? I wonder who is being pharasaical about keeping the sabbath? You amaze me!

Again, Telly B's response is appreciated.

Cheers.

@Telly B,

Telly B:

@Bobbyaf and bari_kade,

You have both argued back and forth on this issue and have passionately put your views across. However, I am concerned that the discussion is spiralling out of context on either side and thus leaving some fundamental questions yet unattended. This will only lead to more questions being raised, more arguments fomented, heated debates vamped up, and readers somewhat more confused than when we first began.

On either side, we should please aim for simplicity in our discussions. While not quickly laying blame yet on anyone (as surely there are shortcomings), there are yet fantastic points which could be sifted from both sides.

For instance, I'm strongly persuaded by bari_kade's insight that any Christian making a case for keeping a Sabbath Law is bound to do so by following its stringent stipulations. That at once deflates Bobbyaf's evasions and counter arguments for any so-called 'exemptions'. The Law allowed for no such exemptions at all.

On the other hand, Bobbyaf makes a good point about connecting the origins of the Sabbath to Genesis 2:3; but his premises are all the more flawed by confusing the Sabbath commandment in Exodus and divorcing it from its stipulations.

My concerns, however, are about whether or not we have been asking the right questions and seeking to address the fundamental issues on this topic. We should not so be enslaved to observing a day - any day for that matter (Gal. 4:9-11). The one thing that should occupy our hearts is the Lord Himself. That is why I so appreciate the point bari_kade brought up about 1 Cor. 11:24 & 25 where the apostle Paul reiterated the Lord's appeal: this do in remembrance of ME!

But is there anything wrong with worshipping on Saturday? Romans 14:5 gives us freedom in the Lord Jesus Christ where each person should be fully persuaded in their own minds. The base line is that, Sabbatarians should not argue to judge other Christians who do not keep a Saturday sabbath (Col. 2:16). And non-sabbatarians should be careful that they do not judge their sabbath-keeping brethren. Remember that whatever we do, we should not put a stumbling block in the path of others (I Cor. 8:9).

Although we individually possess brilliant minds in our various persuasions, we should aim for simplicity and the grace given us in the Lord Jesus Christ to seek the welfare of others. For this reason, perhaps Gal. 5:14-15 is appropriate to close my comments:

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.


God bless y'all.

Wise words there. Thank you, and God bless.

Well, I am at home today and I am responding to Bari_kade's reply on the sabbath. I wonder if he  will accuse of me of breaking sabbath stipulations for even responding to a religious point of view?  

I also notice you are avoiding the words of Jesus saying its lawful to do good on the sabbath, because you very well know you cannot gainsay what the Lord has said.

Lest I forget have a happy sabbath.

@Bobbyaf,

Bobbyaf:

Well, I am at home today and I am responding to Bari_kade's reply on the sabbath. I wonder if he will accuse of me of breaking sabbath stipulations for even responding to a religious point of view?

I also notice you are avoiding the words of Jesus saying its lawful to do good on the sabbath, because you very well know you cannot gainsay what the Lord has said.

Lest I forget have a happy sabbath.

Don't try being a child. I haven't argued against what the Lord Jesus said; and not in one verse did He make an excuse for the sort of exemptions you have repeatedly been drumming up.

I've no problem with anyone wanting to keep the Sabbath based on a Law given in EXODUS - as long as such sabbatarians carefully study and adhere to its stipulations in that same book.

Cheers.

You still haven't gotten it have you? We will see sooner or later who is in the dark or the light! Just keep in mind what Jesus said and everything will fall in place.

Bobbyaf,

Bobbyaf:

You still haven't gotten it have you? We will see sooner or later who is in the dark or the light! Just keep in mind what Jesus said and everything will fall in place.

Your latest tantrums are not really making up for your loses. If you've got anything to say, bring it on.

Gentlemen, Please.

@Bobbyaf,
If you've got anything to say, please do so. If nothing, then you are not helping your sabbatical position with these recent games.


@bari_kade,
Point made. There are no exemptions in the Sabbath Law; and any excuses thereto are simply dishonest and rebellious.


Can we expect to read something more mature henceforth, please?

Too much of scriptural verbiage wears me down.

Lol, @mrpataki,

mrpataki:

Too much of scriptural verbiage wears me down.

I really do not mind "too much" of scripture, or even too much of scriptural verbiage. . . as long as they're right on target on whatever topic is being discussed. What would we do if there were rather too few of those that leave us nowhere?

. . . . . . .lol @ Telly B,

When an issue is being dressed backward and forward, I loose interest in it. I have been blessed greatly from this site by intellectuals and even sadly dim-wits too .

However I believe in Keep It Short and Simple (KISS)

God Bless.

mrpataki:

However I believe in Keep It Short and Simple (KISS)

I believe in KISS as well; that's why after a good deal of enjoying the inputs in both threads on the subject, I decided it was time to express my concerns earlier like yours as in this link:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-55857.64.html#msg1184544

Bless.

@Telly B,

Telly B:

Gentlemen, Please.

@Bobbyaf,
If you've got anything to say, please do so. If nothing, then you are not helping your sabbatical position with these recent games.


@bari_kade,
Point made. There are no exemptions in the Sabbath Law; and any excuses thereto are simply dishonest and rebellious.


Can we expect to read something more mature henceforth, please?

I've been away for a few days; but thank you for your simplicity - as well the good sense you made in your balanced input. God bless.

@ Bari_kade and Telly B

I have already brought it on a very long time, but you haven't noticed. Jesus said that it is good to do good on the sabbath, which no doubt will involve expenditure of energy, and work. If you understood anything in His discourse with the pharasees, you would have picked up that reality. The Mosaic sabbath stipulations as handed down to the then Israelites were for their unique geographical and situational context, and especially considering their spiritual immaturity. The scriptures must never be read with the intention to mislead the fora, but in reading one should look at the central motif for their application. That you all have failed to do, unfortunately.

Two examples were given by Jesus about how stipulations should never overide the greater good. For example Jesus made reference about the need for lifting animals out of a pit on the sabbath, if the situation called for it. Must you continue to gainsay what Jesus said, in order to pin down stipulations on those who don't need them.

He also drew reference to how David went into the sacred temple and ate the bread that were dedicated for the priests only, yet I wonder why such acts were not seen as sacrilegous. He also drew reference about those priests who worked even harder on the sabbath, than on other days.

So indeed the sabbath was made for man for his blessing and happiness according to Jesus. Indeed also Jesus is Lord of the sabbath, because He created it for mankind, including you, and only He alone has determined, and continues to determine the true purpose of the day.

@Bobbyaf,

Bobbyaf:

I have already brought it on a very long time, but you haven't noticed. Jesus said that it is good to do good on the sabbath, which no doubt will involve expenditure of energy, and work. If you understood anything in His discourse with the pharasees, you would have picked up that reality. The Mosaic sabbath stipulations as handed down to the then Israelites were for their unique geographical and situational context, and especially considering their spiritual immaturity. The scriptures must never be read with the intention to mislead the fora, but in reading one should look at the central motif for their application. That you all have failed to do, unfortunately.

Unfortunately, you haven't said anything fresh to the point and your latest remarks read as efforts to continue the debate with excuses to go round the clear Word of God. If you want to keep the seventh-day Sabbath by quoting EXODUS, you are bound to strictly adhere to its stipulations. Failing to do so is indeed an attempt to shortchange your readers while pretending your accusations against others.

Bobbyaf:

Two examples were given by Jesus about how stipulations should never overide the greater good. For example Jesus made reference about the need for lifting animals out of a pit on the sabbath, if the situation called for it. Must you continue to gainsay what Jesus said, in order to pin down stipulations on those who don't need them.

Doing good has nothing to do with making exemptions to keep your "professional" work and earn money for your pocket.

Bobbyaf:

He also drew reference to how David went into the sacred temple and ate the bread that were dedicated for the priests only, yet I wonder why such acts were not seen as sacrilegous. He also drew reference about those priests who worked even harder on the sabbath, than on other days.

Neither those priests nor David were in your hospitals - they were in the Temple; and if you want to follow their example, please note two things:

(a) in the Bible, Jesus indeed said that they "profaned" the sabbath (Matt. 12:5) - so you cannot pretend that their acts were not seen as sacrilegious.

(b) neither the priests nor David carried out any work on the sabbath in your reference so that they can make money for their pockets.

Do you want to do good? Then by all means do so without recourse to collecting salaries for the Saturdays when you go to work!

Bobbyaf:

So indeed the sabbath was made for man for his blessing and happiness according to Jesus. Indeed also Jesus is Lord of the sabbath, because He created it for mankind, including you, and only He alone has determined, and continues to determine the true purpose of the day.

Only in Jesus Christ do Christians find their true rest; and you won't find that the sabbath was made for man so that he can work a good work to earn salaries on those days.

Well it depends on the kind of rest you're referring to, wouldn't it?

The apostle Paul says there remains a sabbath rest for the people of God. The greek construction makes it very clear that that rest was not the spiritual rest, because it is translated as "there remains the keeping of a sabbath"

Now in verse 9 we find the controversial statement as, “there remains therefore a rest for the people of God”. Every other greek word used for rest in Hebres 4 is katapausis, while the one used in verse 9 is "sabbatismos" Its the only NT use of the word for rest. Hence its understanding is crucial to what Paul is talking about when he talks about rest as stated from chapter 3:7

Now what does the noun sabbatismos mean? The writer of Hebrews in 4:3-11 states, and using quotes from Genesis 2:2 and Ps. 95:7, that the promised rest of the sabbath awaits a complete reality for the people of God. Paul explains that God's original plan for that realization failed as a result of Israel's non-belief and lack of faith. What most christians don't seem to realize is that God used the sabbath as a sign to distinguish those who were faithful from those who were un-faithful. Ezekiel also afirmed that the sabbath was meant to be a sign of God sanctifying them.

Jesus in His time demonstrated the true purpose of sabbath keeping to the jewish leaders in general.

Hebrews 4:9 concludes based on the translation of the word sabbatismos, that the experience of the sabbath rest today highlights that wider rest that is found in being obedient to Jesus' words. They interact. When one becomes a new creature in Christ under the New Covenant, one is empowered to obey God out of sheer love for Him. The love of Christ constrains us, or compells us to trust and obey. In other words the creation-commemaration experience of sabbath-keeping (sabbatismos), is a manifestation of the inner rest. True conversion leads to a natural obedience as against legalism, or having to be exact about sabbath observance, as you're and others are trying to impose.

That is why Isaiah promises that even during the earth made new God's sabbath will still remain a day for worship. Unless of course the word remain carries a different meaning as used by Paul, and intimated by the prophet.

Cheers.

@Bobbyaf,

Bobbyaf:

Well it depends on the kind of rest you're referring to, wouldn't it?

The apostle Paul says there remains a sabbath rest for the people of God. The greek construction makes it very clear that that rest was not the spiritual rest, because it is translated as "there remains the keeping of a sabbath"

Now in verse 9 we find the controversial statement as, “there remains therefore a rest for the people of God”. Every other greek word used for rest in Hebres 4 is katapausis, while the one used in verse 9 is "sabbatismos" Its the only NT use of the word for rest. Hence its understanding is crucial to what Paul is talking about when he talks about rest as stated from chapter 3:7

Now what does the noun sabbatismos mean? The writer of Hebrews in 4:3-11 states, and using quotes from Genesis 2:2 and Ps. 95:7, that the promised rest of the sabbath awaits a complete reality for the people of God. Paul explains that God's original plan for that realization failed as a result of Israel's non-belief and lack of faith. What most christians don't seem to realize is that God used the sabbath as a sign to distinguish those who were faithful from those who were un-faithful. Ezekiel also afirmed that the sabbath was meant to be a sign of God sanctifying them.

Jesus in His time demonstrated the true purpose of sabbath keeping to the jewish leaders in general.

Hebrews 4:9 concludes based on the translation of the word sabbatismos, that the experience of the sabbath rest today highlights that wider rest that is found in being obedient to Jesus' words. They interact. When one becomes a new creature in Christ under the New Covenant, one is empowered to obey God out of sheer love for Him. The love of Christ constrains us, or compells us to trust and obey. In other words the creation-commemaration experience of sabbath-keeping (sabbatismos), is a manifestation of the inner rest. True conversion leads to a natural obedience as against legalism, or having to be exact about sabbath observance, as you're and others are trying to impose.

That is why Isaiah promises that even during the earth made new God's sabbath will still remain a day for worship. Unless of course the word remain carries a different meaning as used by Paul, and intimated by the prophet.

Cheers.

Why are you pretending as if this issue has not been discussed before? Your reharshing a debate from another thread has become tiresome; and until you have fresh points, please don't try shlepping worn-out reposts.

Here is the link where I discussed the case of Hebrews 4:9 and the question of sabbatismos [σαββατισμός]:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-34371.160.html#msg872793

And just so you don't come back with excuses as to not being able to visit that link, I'll reproduce the discuss here:

bari_kade:

@Bobbyaf,

If only you knew that God's New Covenant is not about a Saturday or Sunday, much less any day ~~

Gal. 4:9-11
"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain."

Rev. 4:8 - "And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come."

With regards to the "rest" in Heb. 4:9, have you carefully considered why the word sabbatismos [σαββατισμός] occurs only once in the entire NT, besides several mention of 'sabbath' [sabbton - σάββατον] in other verses? 'Sabbath' does not even appear in the book of Hebrews, and this alone should lead us to study the 'rest' in Heb. 4:9 by seeing the surrounding texts, which I quote below:

Heb 3:18-19 ~~ 'And to whom sware He that they should not enter into His rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.' [compare Psa. 95:11 - 'Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest', which was spoken while the Israelites already had a Sabbath that they were keeping!]

Heb 4:4-5 & 7-8 ~~ '⁴For He spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all His works. ⁵And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. . . ⁷Again, He limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear His voice, harden not your hearts. ⁸For if Jesus [i.e., Joshua] had given them rest, then would He not afterward have spoken of another day.

From all the highlighted words, you can see that the text in Heb. 4:9 cannot be used as a proof-text for a seventh-day sabbath law/commandment. Why? Simply because the Bible itself said that God limited 'a certain day' (vs.7) and spoke of it as another day (vs. in contra-distinction to the seventh day (vs.4)! The argument of the passage is that God set aside ("limiteth" a certain day even though the Mosaic Law of seventh-day sabbath was still in operation (see again Psa. 95:11) - He names that day by 3 terms:

'a certain day' - vs.7
'another day' - vs.8
'Today' - vs.7

Then it follows through with the core statement - "⁸For if Jesus [i.e., Joshua] had given them rest, then would He not afterward have spoken of another day."

You can now see that the sabbatismos [σαββατισμός] in Heb.4:9 is not pretext for a law/commandment for keeping seventh-day sabbath. This is why when Jesus came, He openly declared: "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls" (Matt. 11:28-29). The real rest and full import of what God intended in Genesis 2:1-3 can only be realised in Jesus Christ, the Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)! This "rest" is a matter of the soul and not an outward ceremony for the sake of serving a Law of seventh-day sabbath. And that was what the writer of Hebrews wanted us to understand by the single mention of sabbatismos in Heb.4:9 - the only place where the word appears in the entire NT.

At least, I appreciate your latest attempt to answer question #16. If you only take time and think through the earlier 15 questions, more light will help your understanding as to why Christians are not under a Law of seventh-day sabbath observance.

Regards.

As for the reference to Isaiah, I've asked you to look carefully and see that the elements mentioned there are typically suited to the OT style of worship. If you have problems seeing them, then you can reharsh them yet again and i'll be only too glad to point them out to you.

I rest my case bari_kade because you're missing the point and confusing the whole matter with what you have come to accept as sound reasoning. I have grown accustomed to your quoting scripture after scripture that have been taken out of context.

One thing we have in common though is that time will either prove you, or I wrong. Keep your Sunday holy if you can, and I will do what the Lord expects and requires.

Actually, there are exemptions in the Sabbath Law. Jesus states it.

Mat 12:5 Or have you not read in the Law that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath and are blameless?

Even priests profaned the sabbath and the Law says they were blameless.

@Bobbyaf,

Bobbyaf:

I rest my case bari_kade because you're missing the point and confusing the whole matter with what you have come to accept as sound reasoning. I have grown accustomed to your quoting scripture after scripture that have been taken out of context.

I have not confused any issues; and if you're unable to adduce texts for a Sabbath LAW or COMMANDMENT in Genesis, then your arguments from EXODUS are pointless. I'm quite accustomed to your slobbers; but that does not adversely affect the discussions in anyway. If all that seventh-day adventists can do is make excuses and then accuse others when issues are pointed out, I can see how much of a rigid spirit you have.

Bobbyaf:

One thing we have in common though is that time will either prove you, or I wrong. Keep your Sunday holy if you can, and I will do what the Lord expects and requires.

And by this your self-righteousness should be applauded, NO? I've said it before: everyday ("TODAY" - see my previous rejoinder) is holy for the NT believer in Christ; and if you can't see that, then there's no need for your accusations that Christians who worship on Sunday or any other day for that matter are "babylon".

Drusilla:

Actually, there are exemptions in the Sabbath Law. Jesus states it.

Mat 12:5 Or have you not read in the Law that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath and are blameless?

Even priests profaned the sabbath and the Law says they were blameless.

@Drussilla,

If you believe that the Sabbath Day Law was meant to be profaned, good for you. But can you walk me through the entire LAW of the Sabbath in EXODUS for the "exemptions" you're advancing and let's see how they tessellate with working to earn money on such days as the germane excuse to profane the Sabbath?

See Revelation 18:4, "come out of her my people" The sooner you see your folly the better it is for you. You as well as others have tried without success to prove that Sunday became the Lord's day, and I have shown you texts after texts denouncing such error. We can go back and forth with this, but I have reached a point where I need to remove the dust from my shoes, and leave you be.

AS I have said only time will prove who is right, or who is wrong!

@ Drusilla

Actually, there are exemptions in the Sabbath Law. Jesus states it.

Mat 12:5  Or have you not read in the Law that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath and are blameless?

Even priests profaned the sabbath and the Law says they were blameless

He sees what he desires to see dear, but none can gainsay what Jesus said about how the sabbath should be seen in its true colour! Who is blinder than the one who refuses to see?

The beautiful thing is that truth cannot be hid for long. "Till heaven and earth pas not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law till all be fulfilled"

Bari_kade needs to say whether or not heaven and earth are still with us. If he is able to confirm that indeed both still exist now then what else can I say to convince him? Let him be.

Vive la verete!

@Bobbayf,

Please leave the false accusations and slobbers aside. All I ask is a simple question; and if that is not enough, then let me stretch that question for you both:

"Till heaven and earth pas not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law till all be fulfilled"

Where is it written that people could EARN MONEY on the Sabbath Day according to the LAW or COMMANDMENT of the Sabbath?

That is all I'm asking of both of you, so that the Law itself settles the excuse and exemptions for SDAs to profane the Sabbath. And please, remember to keep the slobbers and attend to the issues here.

Thank you both.

bari_kade:

@Drussilla,

If you believe that the Sabbath Day Law was meant to be profaned, good for you. But can you walk me through the entire LAW of the Sabbath in EXODUS for the "exemptions" you're advancing and let's see how they tessellate with working to earn money on such days as the germane excuse to profane the Sabbath?

Bari-kade,

That is all your argument. I just read several posts that there are no exemptions for the sabbath.

Being found blameless even if one profanes the sabbath, seemed to me to be a pretty big exemption.

I haven't looked myself but I believe Jesus that this exemption is in the Law.

@Drusilla,

Drusilla:

That is all your argument.

Obviously not! Please go through my arguments in this and the other thread from where Bobbyaf keeps reharshing already done debates.

Drusilla:

I just read several posts that there are no exemptions for the sabbath.

Did you find any exemptions in the strain of the several posts?

Drusilla:

Being found blameless even if one profanes the sabbath, seemed to me to be a pretty big exemption.

Does that exemption include making money on the Sabbath day and excusing it away? I asked you to please walk me through the entire LAW of the Sabbath and find me just that one verse that excuses EARNING MONEY on the sabbath. Thank you.

Drusilla:

I haven't looked myself but I believe Jesus that this exemption is in the Law.

Until you bring the very verse in the Law where you get the exemption for making money, I'll still be asking that question. Cheers.

Until you bring the very verse in the Law where you get the exemption for making money, I'll still be asking that question. Cheers.

Bari-kade,

Okay. Your looking for a certain exemption about making money.

I don't know. That can be kinda confusing.

Technically all Levites made their living from their work in the temple and that would include what they did in the temple on the sabbath, right?

Did they profane the sabbath because of working and getting paid for their work on the sabbath?

Hmmm. That is an interesting question of why they "profaned" it.

@Drusilla,

If the work carried out by priests in the Temple on the sabbath was so that the Israelites could pay them some form of salaries, I would see your point. However, that is not the case at all.

The priests did not engaged in any secular jobs on the sabbath that involved earning salaries. Their work was in the Temple; and the allusion that has been made in reference to Jesus' statements did not suggest the idea of economics and commerce.

Please read Nehemiah's protest against people trying to profane the sabbath for any kind of money making venture:

    Nehemiah 13 - "(16)There dwelt men of Tyre also therein, which
                            brought fish, and all manner of ware, and sold on
                            the sabbath unto the children of Judah, and in
                            Jerusalem.

                           (17)Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said
                           unto them, What evil thing is this that ye do, and
                           profane the sabbath day?

                          (18 ) Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God
                          bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? yet ye
                          bring more wrath upon Israel by profaning the
                          sabbath.


If anyone is going to "do good" and not run foul of profaning the Sabbath, then the exemptions being offered for making money should be thrown out! (Incidentally, buying and selling also takes the form of working to earn money in the hospitals).

One cannot pretend this issue; because any so-called exemptions to re-arrange the LAW of the Sabbath will also begin to make men excuse the other 9 Laws/Commandments and make exemptions to profane them!

seventh-day Sabbath was not made for Christians

God deserves to be worshipped every day. The sabbath day was a day for the jews to come to the synagogue and worship GOd. Now if you read the bible clearly you'll find out that many laws went with the sabbath day. You remember that the pharisees were waiting to see if JESUS was going to do miracles on the sabbath day and yes HE did.

The death of JESUS CHRIST on the cross of calvary has broken all these laws, we are now free, free from the law.

@mekoyo,

mekoyo:

The death of JESUS CHRIST on the cross of calvary has broken all these laws, we are now free, free from the law.

Lol. I would rather say that His death fulfilled the Law on our behalf so we could be justified in Him. Acts 13:39. Bless up.