@TayoD
This is why I have been asking you and others to list George Bush's achievement

North Korea giving uo her nuclear plans.

Not really, where did you get this news?

No more Taleban

Not really, the war in Afghanistan is still going on. In fact most Nato countries have increased their troops.

Democracy in Iraq

If democracy means 500,000 Iraqis flee their country to Jordan and another 500,000 emigrated to Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Syria and Iran, then stuff democracy. If democracy means you can't leave your house, civil war etc, then stuff democracy. Ask the thousands of Iraqi children if they'd rather have their parents back.

Women now voting in Saudi Arabia

Why is this an achievement of G Bush? Is this another style of democracy? Last time I checked it was still being ruled by the royal family, headed by Crown Prince Abdullah.

While browsing tonight I found out that America has been sending shipload of weapons to Lebanon to kill themselves. Last year the Bush administration sent shipload of weapons to Israel to kill the Lebanese.

Little wonder then that Bush's presidency is the most unpopular amongst those polled in Asia, Africa and the middle east. In Europe 77% are against his policy.
The facts speak for themselves, George Bush Is Destroying What America Stands For.

What  Bush has acheived:Some of them have been noted by TayoD
1) GDP growth at 3.3% ,inflation adjusted average,per year since 2003(fastest growing economy of any major industrialised nation over the past 5 years)
2)44 consecutive months of job growth
3)Productivity growth of 2.8% since 2001
4)8 million new jobs since 2003
5)Tax revenue increases
6)Low unemployement rate of 4.5%
7)Libya giving up its nuclear program
Removal of the Talebans from power
9)Coercing Sudan to end the war in the South(which had cost 1million lives)
10)Banning partial birth abortions
11)Tripling direct aid to Africa(from $1.4billion under Clinton to $4.3billion as at 2005
12)Increase funding for HIV/AIDS program( from $547million per year under Clinton to $3billion going up to $6billion)
13)Trade policies that have doubled trade between the US and Africa since 2001
14)Lowering Capital gains tax
15)Home ownership at record high
16)Signed many free trade agreements thus expanding trade
17)Provided life-saving retrovirals to 850,000 people(that is 850,000 people who would have been dead)-.[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,,2091703,00.html[/url]
18)Expanded the size of the military and the budget(including pay rises)
19)The US economy has grown from $10trillon in 2000 to $13.6trillon in 2007
20) Per capita income has grown from $29,469 in 2000 to $34,586 in 2005-http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104652.html

@I-man

Em, I-man, please in the name of God or whatever it is you worship, tell the truth.

1) George Bush himself just admitted that there's been no progress in Sudan. Coercion which does not yield result is simple wickedness.

2) Tune to CNN or BBC. Cos somebody just said there's no more Taliban. No more Taliban. Yay! Hurray!
a chinook helicopter downed on wednessday: 5 US soldiers killed, 1 British, 1 Canadian. 16 Afghan policemen ambushed and killed same day. What's killing them? Malaria?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6707929.stm

3)Libya did not have any nuclear anything. They saw that everyone was falling mugu for this whole antiterror/Nuclear weapons format, so Ghaddafi claimed he was abandoning his nuclear ambition so Britain and some other EU countries struck a sweet deal with him only to later find out that this guy could not build a nuclear bomb in the Next 200 years with the technology he had.

4) then there's the issue of the Economy. Increase in GDP, broken records in the stock market, increase in tax revenues, increase per capita from $29,000-$34,000, increase in the economy from $10trillion-13trillion (isn't that the same thing as increase in GDP? My friend, stop double counting. We're not idiots in here). Anyway, do you think that these increases actually took place or as the dollar is getting weaker, they are counting it as progress.
If in 1998 (when $1 was N88) I was earning N88,000 , then in 2007 (when the $1 is N127) I am now earning N127,000. Does that mean that Obasanjo has done well?
The problem you guys have here is simply mathematical.
That is why I never argued that there was increase in gasoline cost. The increase is not REAL, It's INFLATIONARY. Convert those figures to a more stable currency like the Pound. Convert the figures for year 2000 to the exchange rate of the Pound in year 2000, then convert the figures in year 2007 using the exchange rate to the Pound in year 2007. What you have there my friend is total economic decline. The stock market is actually crashing but inflation is making it look good. Per capita is actually stagnant yet inflation makes it seem it's rising. Economics is like the Bible, you don't just interprete the meaning from face value.

And Tayo mentioned that women is Saudi now have the right to vote. The right to vote what? A KING?
What is the use of the Ministry of Transport giving me a licence to pilot alien ships when I'm never actually going to use it.

Tayo, this discussion has gotten to a highly intellectual level whereby you cannot just jump and randomly spit out fables like
*No more Taliban
*Voting rights for women is Saudi
*Democracy in Iraq.

If things are so nice and dandy in Iraq, why don't you move there?

We're talking about a president's effort in curbing greenhouse gases and someone is saying emissions have reduced since 1980. That's how you tried to credit Bush for the difference in human rights of African-Americans between the times of the slave trade and this New Millenium. How can you sanely merit a man for something that happened without his awareness. In fact by your calculations you may want us to give George Bush an Award because African Americans are no more treated as slaves. Maybe a SILVER STAR. Now reason here about a man who could in this modern age, colonised a civilized country. He would not only have endorsed slavery during the Slave Trade, am telling you that George Bush would have built the biggest slaveship and sailed it himself to the shores of Africa.

Then there are somethings I probably shouldn't mention because I don't know if some minds are mature enough to know, but I'm going to say it anyway. Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney's shares in weapon's manufacturing companies. No war, no increase in defence budget and therefore no contracts from the DOD (department of defence) for weapons supply. So are you still wondering why the US is shipping a large cache of arms to Lebanon? Well, someone just hit a big contract. And don't come telling Rumsfeld is no longer in government unless of course you didn't take a basic course in politics during General Studies classes.

By 1980 Bush's first company (a gas flaring oil prospecting company) was just folding up. What could he have possibly been contributing towards curbing greenhouse gasses? Come, you people should be careful O! This place is not a kindergarten.
Someone that has sidetracked the Kyoto protocol, has twisted climatological data to even prove that greenhouse gases are okay.

The wise one said:
Some people wake up everyday they lie to themselves and they lie to God too.
Why would you think they wouldn't lie to you?

So you're still holding on to your 4.5% unemployment levels.

By the way, all this talk about North Korea giving up nuclear weapons. Why did they decide to develope nuclear POWER in the first place. Imagine you wake up in the morning and hear that a warlord such as George Bush has marked your country North Korea, including Syria and Iran, THE AXIS OF EVIL. So you won't arm yourself? This is what happened in the case of Iran and North Korea.

How do you expect me to give a man credit for solving SOME of the problems he created.

Check out George Bush's record before he entered government. All his ventures were total failures. Arbusto, Bush Explorations, Spectrum 7, Harken Energy. Even when he was in the military it was a disaster that ended up with him going AWOL. Then you carry this same man and give him the mantle of leadership in a Nation such as the US. Okay, I can still excuse Americans for the fact that he rigged the elections, but all the same, there's still something called IMPEACHMENT.

And yet you still do not answer me. All the billions of Dollars of AID, what have they done in your local government area? Nay what have they done in Lagos? Please somebody just one example so I can go and check it out.

Take out a journal and find out how George Bush became a Multimillionaire. It was during the first Gulf war when he was there sitting at his desk at Harken Energy Corp. Trying pointlessly to create a business idea in that numb brain of his, next thing his father attacked Iraq (justifiably) oil went from $13/barrel to $33/barrel. JACKPOT!

By the time things went back to normal in Iraq, the company crumbled stocks plummeting from $4 to below $1.

That was where little George learnt the valuable lesson of life:
war in an oil producing country = rise in cost of petroleum = higher revenues to oil companies = personal wealth for oil company execs.

and it also occurred to him that
oil executive = ME + CHENEY.
There goes the great simultaneous equation that led to the Iraq invasion.


By the way, how can you tell me that Cheney ex Chairman of Halliburton has no links with the company anymore? George Bush, former board member of Harken Energy, has nothing to do with the company anymore. That must be some major double coincidence of memory loss on their part. Who was their main campaign contributor?
THEY SENT THEM THERE TO RAKE IN PROFITS!!!

Don't you understand? What role has Iraq got to play in the war against Al Qaeda and the Taliban? Intelligence reports on Bush's desk actually showed there was no link between Bin Laden and Saddam. In fact, the reports showed that they were enemies. But no, George Bush had made up his mind. ATTACK!

Now with the help of the current state of lawlessness and porous borders that has been put in place via this war, Al Qaeda is now well rooted in Iraq all thanks to George Bush. Then everyday George Bush will give progress reports of fighting against Al Qaeda in Iraq and fools will cheer. They forget that it is his effort that put Al Qaeda there in the first place.


Abeg, we keep acting like we don't know but we know more than anybody can imagine.

Okay say the Government in Iraq is bad. Over here, OBJ reinstated a toppled government in Sao Tome just by word of mouth. Brought Liberia back to democracy though with a little muscle. After solving the Liberian problem, people started trying to paint the man black just so someone else could take the glory.
Even Ethiopia has gone into Somalia and stabilized the country within a few months and now they are pulling out.

But no not US. Instead of being diplomatic with Saddam, keeping him in a comfortable detention area, making him promises, allowing him see his daughters and then letting him make some few pro-peace speeches to quel things down and stabilize the region for a couple of years before trying him. George Bush just decided he must die ASAP and they made sure it was carried out during an Islamic holiday so that they can further incite violence.

When will it occur to you that Bush does not want to leave Iraq. He does not even want the next president to leave Iraq.
Majority of the Bush Administration is gaining from this war financially via their so called former employers.
When will you realise that George Bush is not trying to solve the problem; George Bush IS the problem.

A success that has not yet happened? Please, this guy is killing me.

@denex

you do ndo well my broda. you get knowlwdge well well. but u dey waste ya time shao. dis guy wey don call you oaf no go take de lesson wey you dey dish out to him o. small time now e go say you dey lie even wen we know say na true. pesin wey don tok say na im be master itk no go sabi say no koba im take make monkey suit.

@denex
What an article, precise and to the point.

@denex,

Unfortunately, my computer froze up the last time I tried to post a reply and I lost all I had been typing. That wasn't fun at all. I will try and break up my responses now into tiny bits both for easy reading and avoid the potential of wasting so much energy.

1) George Bush himself just admitted that there's been no progress in Sudan. Coercion which does not yield result is simple wickedness.

Did you bother to ask yourself why this is the case? It's all because China has been sabotaging the U.S. efforts because of their interests in Sudan's oil. It appears only Bush has been making an effort to end the genocide while the UN is unable to do anything for lack of political will and clout. I wish other nations too will apply sanctions tro compliment U.S. efforts and let's see if their wont be a change. In any case, the U.S. just expanded the sactions this past week to forbid any U.S. affiliated company or professional from doing business with Sudan. Please tell us, what are other countries doing to end this bloodshed?

@denex,

2) Tune to CNN or BBC. Cos somebody just said there's no more Taliban. No more Taliban. Yay! Hurray!
a chinook helicopter downed on wednessday: 5 US soldiers killed, 1 British, 1 Canadian. 16 Afghan policemen ambushed and killed same day. What's killing them? Malaria? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6707929.stm

I thought I am in a debate with people who can reason beyond what they are just reading! That I said "no more taleban" does not mean the Taleban cease to exist but that the Taleban is no more in power. It means the same people who took other people's freedom are no longer free to roam about in full view of the public where they once hold sway. I trust you are aware that President Hamid Karzai was democratically elected after the U.S. routed the Taleban from power. That is another achievement of Bush which I didnt mention earlier!!

3)Libya did not have any nuclear anything. They saw that everyone was falling mugu for this whole antiterror/Nuclear weapons format, so Ghaddafi claimed he was abandoning his nuclear ambition so Britain and some other EU countries struck a sweet deal with him only to later find out that this guy could not build a nuclear bomb in the Next 200 years with the technology he had.

Now this is passing your speculation as facts. The opposite of what you claim is actually the case. Libya was further along in their quest for nuclear, chemical and biological weapons that the west ever thought they were. And by the way, are wee to wait till they are 5 minutes away from obtaining nuclear weapons before we start to negotiate? Please see http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/africa/12/19/libya.nuclear/index.html

America does whatever serves the country's interest good or bad. even secretly it has destabilized many countries' democracies and govt. just to get what it wants.
ideology doesn't always translate to reality, and what america stands for is just ideology.

i guess bush was just overconfident and didn't realize when to back down. but he can't be blamed for destroying "what america stands for" 'cause he was just following precedent.

There is a reason why my interest in this thread waned.You can't have a reasonable debate with someone who argues about well known facts.Our opinions about a fact may differ but you can't have a reasonable debate,when the known facts are disputed.

Take for example,I mentioned that Bush helped bring peace to the long running war in South Sudan.Note,its South Sudan not West Sudan(Darfur).The war in South Sudan had been going on for decades and had claimed a million lives.

Bush coerced the Sudanese Govt into ending that war.When I mentioned it,Denex responded by claiming that Bush says there has been no progress in Sudan.Yes Bush said something to that effect but he was talking of the war in West Sudan which started in 2003.A totally different conflict from the war in South Sudan which Bush helped stop

When people dispute fundamental facts,how can you engage in reasonable dialogue? This is just one example of many

I-man:

[b]There is a reason why my interest in this thread waned.You can't have a reasonable debate with someone who argues about well known facts.[/b]Our opinions about a fact may differ but you can't have a reasonable debate,when the known facts are disputed.

Well said. It is hard to "reason" with those who are not here to reason but to impose their "beliefs" mischieviously packaged as "facts" on others by way of insults.

It is hard to "reason" with those who merely copy and paste, watch NTA network news and suddenly assume they are knowledgeable.

It is hard to "reason" with those to whom this debate is really not about the policies of George Bush but about naked hatred for a man who openly supports Isreal and unlike his predecessors was not prepared to bury his head in the sands of denial when it came to fighting terrorism which sadly translates to fighting the radical and violent doctrine of islam.

The other time he was arguing about the unemployment rate in the US.He insists that Bush is making false claims when it is stated that the rate is 4.5% .When I saw this,I didn't know where to start.

The unemployment rate has never been disputed,untill Denex came along, and you can simply google it.Bush does not have any control over the publication of the rate anymore than he has control over the publication of playboy magazine.

Another one was his claim that Cheney shot his hunting partner deliberately after an argument   How do you know that for a fact?The family of the victim has never said that was the case.The friends and acquaintances have never said so.The victim himself never said so.Where the hell did you get that from?Can you put up links that show this?Its incredible how you make claims without links to support them

Put up links showing that the latest US unemployment rate is not 4.5%,or that Cheney shot his friend deliberately after an argument,or that the war in South Sudan has not ended,or that the  US economy has not grown 3.3%(in real terms),e.t.c.Do you think were oafs here? Are we supposed to believe something just because you said it?

Here is another one of his "facts". . .

denex:

And Tayo mentioned that women is Saudi now have the right to vote. The right to vote what? A KING?
What is the use of the Ministry of Transport giving me a licence to pilot alien ships when I'm never actually going to use it.

Tayo, this discussion has gotten to a highly intellectual level whereby you cannot just jump and randomly spit out fables like
*No more Taliban
*Voting rights for women is Saudi
*Democracy in Iraq.

Two women win in Saudi election
Two Saudi businesswomen have been elected in the kingdom's first ballot in which women were allowed to stand.
Lama al-Suleiman and Nashwa Taher were among 12 successful candidates voted onto the board of Jeddah's chamber of commerce and industry.

A debate is not won on the quantity of posts but on the validity of the many hair-brained statements forced on us as "facts".
Of course his equally clueless friends dont bother to query such "facts", they are content to pat him on the back.

@denex,

4) then there's the issue of the Economy. Increase in GDP, broken records in the stock market, increase in tax revenues, increase per capita from $29,000-$34,000, increase in the economy from $10trillion-13trillion (isn't that the same thing as increase in GDP? My friend, stop double counting. We're not idiots in here). Anyway,  do you think that these increases actually took place or as the dollar is getting weaker, they are counting it as progress.
If in 1998 (when $1 was N88) I was earning N88,000 , then in 2007 (when the $1 is N127) I am now earning N127,000. Does that mean that Obasanjo has done well?
The problem you guys have here is simply mathematical.
That is why I never argued that there was increase in gasoline cost. The increase is not REAL, It's INFLATIONARY. Convert those figures to a more stable currency like the Pound. Convert the figures for year 2000 to the exchange rate of the Pound in year 2000, then convert the figures in year 2007 using the exchange rate to the Pound in year 2007. What you have there my friend is total economic decline. The stock market is actually crashing but inflation is making it look good. Per capita is actually stagnant yet inflation makes it seem it's rising. Economics is like the Bible, you don't just interprete the meaning from face value.

I wish you had followed your logical argument and not rely on your prejudiced speculations in arriving at a conclusion. Now let's follow your advice and arrive at a conclusion based on facts. The average exchange rate of the dollar to the British Pounds so far for the year 2007 is 0.507788 while the average rate in year 2000 is 0.661037. Therefore the U.S economy has grown from 6.61037 trillion pounds in 2000 to 6.90592 trillion pounds in 2007, which represents an increase of over 295 billion pounds in 7 years. Kindly tell us which other country has grown that much in the same period as the U.S. under the Presidency of Bush.
NB. These values are based on the $10 trillion in 2000 to the $13.6 trillion dollars estimate of the American economy!!!
You can chenck the following links for the exchange rates: http://www.x-rates.com/d/GBP/USD/hist2007.html and http://www.x-rates.com/d/GBP/USD/hist2000.html.

@denex,

And Tayo mentioned that women is Saudi now have the right to vote. The right to vote what? A KING?
What is the use of the Ministry of Transport giving me a licence to pilot alien ships when I'm never actually going to use it.

Davidylan already responded to this eloquently but I'd like to look at it from another perspective. Democracy was brought to Iraq through the gun while it is gradually being brought to Saudi Arabia and other countries through diplomacy. The later route is time comsuming and very gradual but it is still a definite movement in the right direction. Clinton hob-nobed with the Saudi Royals throughout his tenure and didn't achieve this feat. Shouldn't you guys just be fair-minded and acknowledge the truth?

Just one of the many "facts" from professor denex

denex:

By the way, all this talk about North Korea giving up nuclear weapons. Why did they decide to develope nuclear POWER in the first place. Imagine you wake up in the morning and hear that a warlord such as George Bush has marked your country North Korea, including Syria and Iran, THE AXIS OF EVIL. So you won't arm yourself? This is what happened in the case of Iran and North Korea.

Denex attempts to hoodwink us into believing that North Korea started her nuclear program in order to "arm" herself in retaliation to being listed as part of the axis of evil.

However, the true FACTS of the matter indicate US and North Korea actually signed an agreed framework on the 21st of October 1994, with the sole aim of ensuring a gradual phasing out of NK's graphite-moderated nuclear power plants, which could easily produce weapons grade plutonium, to be replaced with light water reactor (LWR) power plants by a target date of 2003.

Sir Denex, not even a 5yr old will agree with you that George Bush was president of the US in 1994!

Kudos to those who described denex's article as "precise" and "straight to the point". It's clear it was more noise than subtance.

@denex,

Tayo, this discussion has gotten to a highly intellectual level whereby you cannot just jump and randomly spit out fables like

I am sure the one spitting fables is you. I have presented facts above and I look forward to your acknowledging your innacuracies or at least provide some arguments based on facts.

*No more Taliban

I already explaned that my comment about the taleban is on their hold on power.

*Voting rights for women is Saudi

Davidylan already provided the link where the experts declare it is a significant step forward.

*Democracy in Iraq.

Don't tell me you think Iraq is more democratic under Saddam where the minority were in power than it is now where the majority democratically elected a parliament, president and also drafted a constitution! If peace is your idea of democracy, we caould as well declare that saudi Arabia is more democratic than Nigeria!!!

We're talking about a president's effort in curbing greenhouse gases and someone is saying emissions have reduced since 1980.

Can you kindly tell us how greenhouse effect can be curtailed without reducing emmissions? And by the way, technology is the main limiting factor and not any government's policy. I just sat through a seminar presented by the consulting company to 6 State government here in the U.S., so I know.

I don't know whether you guys saw this one.

Abeg George Bush has ruined the Image of the US.
Rights are abused, elections are rigged, documents are falsified, the country is placed in a state of emergency and ruled under marshall law for upwards of 4 years (here in Nigeria, a state of emergency was declared in Ekiti State and after 5 months, senate stood up against it.

What can I say when someone implys that the US at the present time has lesser human rights protection than Nigeria

denex:

And yet you still do not answer me. All the billions of Dollars of AID, what have they done in your local government area? Nay what have they done in Lagos? Please somebody just one example so I can go and check it out.

Are you suggesting we should have voted George Bush as the Ikeja local government chairman so the US AID to Nigeria could have been better utillised?

denex:

Now with the help of the current state of lawlessness and porous borders that has been put in place via this war, Al Qaeda is now well rooted in Iraq all thanks to George Bush. Then everyday George Bush will give progress reports of fighting against Al Qaeda in Iraq and fools will cheer. They forget that it is his effort that put Al Qaeda there in the first place.

thanks to George Bush alqaeda is now well rooted in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen, London e.t.c.

@denex, I-man,

Abeg George Bush has ruined the Image of the US.
Rights are abused, elections are rigged, documents are falsified, the country is placed in a state of emergency and ruled under marshall law for upwards of 4 years (here in Nigeria, a state of emergency was declared in Ekiti State and after 5 months, senate stood up against it.

I actually missed this statement by denex until I-man brought it to my attention. Now this makes for classic comic relief. Please let us know which State in the U.S is under curfew by reason of the martial law (not marshall law as you stated). As far as I know, the U.s. is still a 24 hour economy with no restriction of movement and the Judiciary has not been usurped by the military. Please tell us, has Chief Justice Robert "stepped-aside" for Marine General Peter Pace?

@denex,

And yet you still do not answer me. All the billions of Dollars of AID, what have they done in your local government area? Nay what have they done in Lagos? Please somebody just one example so I can go and check it out.

I worked with an engineering consultancy in Lagos that designed and implemented a lot of World Bank projects especially in the areas of water distribution. An acquaintance I met in postgraduate shool here just returned from Africa (can't remember where exactly). She and her husband provided their skills to develop the community through sponsorship from the U.S. government. Here is a link to USAID activities in Nigeria http://www.usaid.gov/locations/sub-saharan_africa/countries/nigeria/. That you do not know does not mean it don't exist. Besides, all the aid provided to Africa is public knowledge, and no country has yet claimed the promises were never fulfilled.

denex:

@daviddylan

please restrict all arguments or discussions to fact based depositions.

You would do well to take your own advice. Another long post that is all noise and no substance , refusing to take responsibility for the many gaps in logic and "facts" inherent in your first post that your equally clueless friends hailed as "accurate and precise".

@daviddylan

Aren't you just getting bolder and bolder? You used to always wait for I-man to post so you could back up. Now you've left the shadows only to post nothing. What new point or information regarding your stand have you just revealed? My friend wait for I-man to say something before you start mumbling in here.
Have you studied the simple arithmetic I just schooled you in? Rather than take your time to to study it, learn and take correction, you're blowing hot wind in here.

@ denex,

Stop trying to dodge your obvious inaccuracies that have been pointed out to you.
Go back and read my last 4 posts, NO WHERE did i mention anything about foreign exchange you claim to have "schooled me" on.

I mentioned your errors on:
1. women winning voting rights in Saudi Arabia - you barely skirted around it without acknowledging your initial error!
2. you claimed north Korea armed themselves with nuclear weapons when Bush named them among the axis of evil despite signing an agreement to replace their nuclear reactors in 1994 when Clinton and NOT Bush was president - again you pretended not to see that.
3. You claim nothing has been done with the billions of dollars given in AID to Nigeria at the local government level forgetting that the role of the AID donor does not include helping implement programs at Ikeja local government - again you hypocritically avoided that:

Only to start "schooling me" on foreign exchange WHICH I NEVER MENTIONED IN ANY OF MY LAST 4 POSTS!

Be a man and start "schooling us" on your numerous errors pointed out first!

@denex,

Have you studied the simple arithmetic I just schooled you in? Rather than take your time to to study it, learn and take correction, you're blowing hot wind in here.

I wish you do follow your own logic and advice sometimes. First you calimed the U.S. economy did not experience real growth because the dollar has been devalued. I countered that argument by showing you an increase in hundreds of billions of British pounds using the same method you prescribed. I would rather you take your own advice and "study this, learn and take correction instead of blowing hot here."

You also mentioned in passing that gas prices have not really increased because it is just a sign of the inflation experienced in the U.S. How untrue. I intend to call some friends in London and Germany today and ask if they are still paying the same prices they paid for gas as before. In the mean time, here is an article on BBC with regards to the increase in gas price in the U.K. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4723648.stm

Another one of denex's fallacies:

Even Ethiopia has gone into Somalia and stabilized the country within a few months and now they are pulling out.

Just on the news today:

'Foreign fighters' die in Somalia
Foreign fighters from Britain, Sweden and Pakistan were among those killed by US missiles and Somali army operations, according to the Somali government.
A remote village in the Puntland region was bombarded on Friday, following the reported arrival of foreign militants.

As many as a dozen people were reported to have been killed, including at least six foreign Islamists, the government and army said.

What a "stable" country!

And I-man, if you cannot use google to carry out a simple search, it stuns me just trying to think how you became so informed. So you want me to spoonfeed you with links?

Yes Denex,spoonfeed me with links.The burden of proof lies solely with the person making a claim.That concept might be alien to you but that is how civilised debates are conducted.Otherwise anyone can claim anything.If these claims you make can be verified by simply using google,why don't you put up links here.I have done that several times myself.

You still haven't produced links for the following lies:    

-that the latest US unemployment rate is not really 4.5%.
-that Bush is falsifying the numbers
- that Cheney shot his hunting partner deliberately
- that US growth rate is not 3.3% in real terms.
- that Bush ordered  the doctoring of satelitte photos
-That most of the US casualties in Iraq  are South American immigrants
-That some of the casualties have not reached the legal age of watching porn(18 years)
-
I just chose a few for you to prove.Your shameless mendacity is mind numbing.Prove us wrong by providing evidence of the claims you make

davidylan banned for "turning yet another productive argument into a name-calling game".
Denex and other smart guys, let the debate proceed!

Davidylan turned a "productive argument into a name-calling game"?  You must have missed this from Denex

@I-man
I thought I could reach out to even a single strand of civility in you but your savage response shows that you've taken in some of this bush attitude. Do you live in Texas?
So you are telling me that on the issue of Guantanamo, if I kidnap people and keep them in my neighbour's house then it's okay.

By the way, I'm talking about human rights and your moronic ideology could not hold that species as one. You had to start tribal and racial racial segregations. You must be a very sick idiot if you have to compare the times of slavery to George Bush's tenure, unless of course you're trying to propound that George Bush freed the slaves!

Now if you took simple arithmetics you'd be able to solve this problem. The damage caused by Katrina is $25billion maybe you should say the BBC lying not me. I didn't go to the gulf to start counting houses. I read the report. Now if the total damage done by the hurricane cost $25 billion, why is George Bush claiming he gave them $120billion? To do what? Build a another extra state? And if a problem that costs N25 billion is allocated N120 billion do you think it'd still be there?
Only a decorated dim wit such as yourself will not see that that fund is being diverted.

And lastly you were finding it so hard to belief that George Bush would publish fake economic figures. A man you photographed fake Weapons of Mass Destruction, who awarded a fake Silver star for valour, who wrote fake climate reports? �You're delusional!

And this from me:

If you think that this is the first time America is holding foreigners captured during military conflict in a foreign location,y[b]ou must be one ignorant oaf[/b]

@Denex
Still awaiting your links with bated breath,hope I don't suffocate

WOW! IT MUST BE THE "TIME OF THE MONTH"!