A tuolu omalu, o malu; a tuolu ofeke, o tiye isi n'ofia.

Enough said.

SLIGHT:

so wen d separated bethrens eventualy meet after a long time(i.e ova500yrs later),de wil not recognise each other. If a yoruba n a gogobiri meet 2day, they wil b lyk total strangers. So a yoruba wil nt lyk 2 b cald a GOGOBIRI,nor a gogobiri lyk 2 b cald YORUBA. Each with his own identity.likewise D case of ika n igbo

Are the Ikas separated from the other Igbo clans
Who separated them?

"A tuolu omalu, omalu; a tuolu ofeke, o tiye isi n'ofia." - 006
----- Uvuvu. Pan-Igbo-ists. . .

Andre Uweh:

I know that is your wish, am sure if you have the powers to further divide Ndigbo you will grab it with your two hands. Thank God you do not have it.
Why do you comment in such a way, especially at a time when Anioma sons head the apex Igbo organisations?.

ChinenyeN:

@ Bolded. Honestly, there really seems to be no end to how much you pan-Igbo-ists will continue to surprise me. Andre, are you serious about that bolded comment of yours? I mean, really? Moving on though, regarding your question, so what if Anioma sons head Ohanaeze (apex Igbo whatever)? How exactly does that change the stance of the general Anioma body?

The general Anioma body, are they not the ones who nominate them to head Ohanaeze and Aka-Ikenga?. Anioma may want to be Anioma as well as want to be Igbo.

During the Easter period, as part of my holidays in Nigeria, I used the opportunity to visit Amb. R. Uwaechue at his African house mansion at Ogwashi Ukwu. My visit to him has helped me to know more about Anioma and what they want to be. It is totally wrong for you to say that Anioma wants to be Anioma. That is just what you personally want. If the fate of the Igbo lies in your hand, you will not hesistate to dismember it. But the Igbo has come to stay. Take it or leave it.

"If the fate of the Igbo lies in your hand, you will not hesistate to dismember it. But the Igbo has come to stay." - Andre Uweh
----- uvuvu l'ezi. You cannot be serious. Me of all people, you are accusing. You pan-Igbo-ist just never cease to amaze me. Andre, aside from calling me a deltan Igbo masquerading as Ngwa, the above quote is by far the most insulting statement you've directed at me. You pan-Igbo-ists seriously need to calm down check yourselves; always allowing your annoying pan-Igbo feathers to be ruffled. Shine your eyes, and see who your real enemies are. Nonsense.

@ Topic: Why all the fuss? The Ika are not that large in number. Igbo certainly doesn't need them. They're also on the outskirts of Igboland. Therefore, the loss Igbo will receive, if any, will be minimal, at best. Chai. Forcing identity. Haadi we su. If they really want to go, let them. Will the rest of Igbo die if the Ika remain on their own?

Hyem kagha wu hye i kwuru "Anioma will want to be Anioma. It seems you are confusing Anioma with Ika. Anyway, Ika is just a component unit of Anioma. I do feel you were wrong in that assertion. My membership of Igbo World Assembly has afforded me with the opportunity to relate with Izu Anioma and other Anioma organisations. I also belong to Igbo Youths Uk (www.icsn.co.uk), an organisation that has in the past five years now had Anioma sons as presidents. Only the number of Anioma members in this organisation is bigger than Ebonyi state members.
For the fact Ika is too small to loose does not mean that we should care less about them. Ndigbo na asi na Anya bewe, imi esoro ya bewe.
My point is Anioma will not want to be singularly Anioma. They are Anioma and belong to the larger family-Igbo.

Igbo Youth this, Igbo World Congress that, Ohanaeze apex those, nnaa lielaa hnwe ojoo la nde we. Those organizations don't impress me, and I certainly don't care for them, either. So, I repeat, the Ika are not that large in number, and Igbo certainly doesn't need them. They're also on the outskirts of Igboland. If they really want to go, let them. The rest of Igbo will not die if the Ika remain on their own. Akasoola m.

Sorry for my silence. I'v been so busy all day.

asha 80:

Oweniwe i would like you to write 'i do not understand what you are saying' in your language or dialect.i have a reason for asking.

I don't speak igbo language (ukwuani dialet) but my raw interpretation is- amari/ananu ife ine ku

006:

@ Oweniwe,

You said you’re Igbo, didn’t you? Probably you believe you’re Anioma too.
If you do believe in Anioma, then why is Ika not Igbo since Anioma came from: A[/b]niocha, [b]N[/b]dokwa, [b]I[/b]ka, [b]O[/b]shimili, and [b]M and A are common denominators found in the four original local governments.

If you think or believe that Ika is not Igbo, then it means that Anioma does not exist.
Do you believe that Anioma as a people is fake and a grouping of convenience?

I never said ika is not a part of anioma. They are. I'm just trying to say ika and other igbo speaking groups have been apart from the main igbo for a long time, at least, 3 centuries, too long for them to hold on to igbo identity due to several reasons such as mixin with other groups i.e ika + benin, geography location, micro politics, etc. So they create new identities for themselves. That's why we have many splinter igbo groups that deny they are igbo. So if an ika, ukwuani, ikwerre man wants to hold on to igbo I.D, o.k. But if they want to be addressed as ika, ukwuani, etc, leave them alone. Its not by force to answer igbo

abadaba:

Baboon bleeping backside fart, you must be an boofer for typing the above crap. Why not address the issue of calling forumites Ojukwu pickings and other silly attempts to rile people. Ouit being a butt munching asshole and respect those who chat here.
Bloody sniking i.diot.

I didn't use the name ojukwu pickin without reason. I know it is very insulting. Its the same when you point finger and call an ika, ikwerre,ukwuani person igbo AGAINST HIS WISH to be addressed as ika, ikwerre, ukwuani. Its very insulting to them. If they want to answer igbo, eh. If they don't want to answer igbo, ki lo kan e? What is your business? How does that becomes a headache to you? If a ika man wants to be addressed as ika, leave him alone. Don't insult him by calling him igbo

oweniwe:

I never said ika is not a part of anioma. They are. I'm just trying to say ika and other igbo speaking groups have been apart from the main igbo for a long time, at least, 3 centuries, too long for them to hold on to igbo identity due to several reasons such as mixin with other groups i.e ika + benin, geography location, micro politics, etc. So they create new identities for themselves. That's why we have many splinter igbo groups that deny they are igbo. So if an ika, ukwuani, ikwerre man wants to hold on to igbo I.D, o.k. But if they want to be addressed as ika, ukwuani, etc, leave them alone. Its not by force to answer igbo

Apart from what? Are they geographically separated and by whom? So what are you talking about? Don't tell me River Niger because it's not an ethnic group nor a barrier to communication.

For goodness sake, in any group, those at the fringes are more likely to have influences from contiguous dissimilar groups – Aro have similar influence from Ibibio, Nsukka and northern Anambra people have influences from Igala. It’s normal in every group.

oweniwe:

I never said ika is not a part of anioma. They are.

My question was if you think or believe that Ika is not Igbo, then it means that Anioma does not exist.
Do you believe that Anioma as a people is fake and a grouping of convenience?
You left it and started saying I never said ika is not a part of Anioma. Read properly.

oweniwe:

So they create new identities for themselves. That's why we have many splinter igbo groups that deny they are igbo. So if an ika, ukwuani, ikwerre man wants to hold on to igbo I.D, o.k. But if they want to be addressed as ika, ukwuani, etc, leave them alone. Its not by force to answer igbo

You as an Anioma and Igbo, do you believe Ikas are not Igbos? If you do, tell me the basic for the grouping of Anioma people? What bonds them together? Why do they feel they are one? What do they have in common? When you answer these questions, then I’ll rest my case. Let’s be reasonable and truthful.

ChinenyeN:

Igbo Youth this, Igbo World Congress that, Ohanaeze apex those, nnaa lielaa hnwe ojoo la nde we. Those organizations don't impress me, and I certainly don't care for them, either. So, I repeat, the Ika are not that large in number, and Igbo certainly doesn't need them. They're also on the outskirts of Igboland. If they really want to go, let them. The rest of Igbo will not die if the Ika remain on their own. Akasoola m.

They must not impres all. Even the U.S govt where you leave do not impress all. You earlier said Anioma will like to be on their own . You did not say Ika then. I picked it up and and discussed how wrong you were with instances of my association with Anioma leaders home and abroad.
I like adventure and as a result I made arrangements with the secretary of Amb R. Uwechue for a visit to the number one Igbo man at the moment. luckily for me, the Ohanaeze chieftain granted my request and during the easter period, I hit Ogwashi Ukwu to discuss this issues with him. As things are, I know better where the Anioma wishes to be.

Andre, This. . . .

ChinenyeN:

And the nonsense continues. . .

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the people of Anioma just want to be Anioma.

Was in response to this. . .

006:

@ Oweniwe,

You said you’re Igbo, didn’t you? Probably you believe you’re Anioma too.
If you do believe in Anioma, then why is Ika not Igbo since Anioma came from: A[/b]niocha, [b]N[/b]dokwa, [b]I[/b]ka, [b]O[/b]shimili, and [b]M and A are common denominators found in the four original local governments.

If you think or believe that Ika is not Igbo, then it means that Anioma does not exist.
Do you believe that Anioma as a people is fake and a grouping of convenience?

Which was actually this post below, before 006 edited it to this. . .

006:

.

and then posted this again. . .

006:

@ Oweniwe,

You said you’re Igbo, didn’t you? Probably you believe you’re Anioma too.
If you do believe in Anioma, then why is Ika not Igbo since Anioma came from: A[/b]niocha, [b]N[/b]dokwa, [b]I[/b]ka, [b]O[/b]shimili, and [b]M and A are common denominators found in the four original local governments.

If you think or believe that Ika is not Igbo, then it means that Anioma does not exist.
Do you believe that Anioma as a people is fake and a grouping of convenience?

After I had posted my post, which was in response to his. I have my suspicions as to why he would do that, but I'm not entirely sure. Anyway, did any of that make sense?

---

Now, all that aside, read this. . .

ChinenyeN:

And the nonsense continues. . .

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the people of Anioma just want to be Anioma.

Clearly, I was gracious enough to admit a possible knowledge error on my part. So all you needed to do was to just told me that I was wrong, thereby stating and confirming my own suspicions of my own inaccuracy; an inaccuracy which I was gracious enough to admit, in the first place.

Instead of making the below comments. . .

Andre Uweh:

I know that is your wish, am sure if you have the powers to further divide Ndigbo you will grab it with your two hands. Thank God you do not have it.
Why do you comment in such a way, especially at a time when Anioma sons head the apex Igbo organisations?.

Andre Uweh:

The general Anioma body, are they not the ones who nominate them to head Ohanaeze and Aka-Ikenga?. Anioma may want to be Anioma as well as want to be Igbo.

During the Easter period, as part of my holidays in Nigeria, I used the opportunity to visit Amb. R. Uwaechue at his African house mansion at Ogwashi Ukwu. My visit to him has helped me to know more about Anioma and what they want to be. It is totally wrong for you to say that Anioma wants to be Anioma. That is just what you personally want. If the fate of the Igbo lies in your hand, you will not hesistate to dismember it. But the Igbo has come to stay. Take it or leave it.

. . .all of which are unnecessary, and all of which I also find it utterly insulting, especially that you would direct such comments to me, when you could have just simply stated and confirmed that I was wrong.

Seriously, I don't know why you all get so jumpy, but if you pan-Igbo-ists intend on treating everyone who holds even a slightly different view from your pan-Igbo understand, as an enemy, then be prepared to make a lot of enemies; always letting your feathers get ruffled over people, like I, myself, who are so unimportant. Ugh. . I tire of you all.

ChinenyeN:

"If the fate of the Igbo lies in your hand, you will not hesistate to dismember it. But the Igbo has come to stay." - Andre Uweh
----- uvuvu l'ezi. You cannot be serious. Me of all people, you are accusing. You pan-Igbo-ist just never cease to amaze me. Andre, aside from calling me a deltan Igbo masquerading as Ngwa, the above quote is by far the most insulting statement you've directed at me. You pan-Igbo-ists seriously need to calm down check yourselves; always allowing your annoying pan-Igbo feathers to be ruffled. Shine your eyes, and see who your real enemies are. Nonsense.

@ Topic: Why all the fuss? The Ika are not that large in number. Igbo certainly doesn't need them. They're also on the outskirts of Igboland. Therefore, the loss Igbo will receive, if any, will be minimal, at best. Chai. Forcing identity. Haadi we su. If they really want to go, let them. Will the rest of Igbo die if the Ika remain on their own?

hmm, would never have thought that little statement by andre uweh would rile you this much.

you dont normally take offence at actual intended or unintended insults which get bandied around here every other day.

i'm just surprised that this particular post by andre which i almost took as a joke, really hurt you so much.


just shows some of the differences between tribes, i guess.

a yoruba person would almost never notice this kind of statement, moreso when many of them are actually doing the same, imo.


just my thoughts, nothing serious.

tpiah:

hmm, would never have thought that little statement by andre uweh would rile you this much.

you dont normally take offence at actual intended or unintended insults which get bandied around here every other day.

i'm just surprised that this particular post by andre which i almost took as a joke, really hurt you so much.


just shows some of the differences between tribes, i guess.

a yoruba person would almost never notice this kind of statement, moreso when many of them are actually doing the same, imo.


just my thoughts, nothing serious.

I guess. . . I can see what you're saying. It is unlike me, but I did find it rather offensive, especially considering the contributions I've made here on NL, regarding Igbo topics and issues like this. Oh well though, I'm largely over it, but just out of curiosity, does my response really look that bad though?

igbo igbo igbo.can anyone give specific definition of igbo?

is there any difference between ethnic group and clan?

isnt igbo too complex to be defined?

is there any dialect of igbo that all igbos can understand?

how many dialects are there in igboland?

do the south east speak one dialect?

does imo state speak one dialect?

does orlu zone speak one dialect?

does orlu lga speak one dialect?

is ngwa a clan or sub group?

is ikwerre a clan or an ethnic group?

is ika a sub group or an ethnic group?

is ika the most difficult version of igbo?

@chinenyen.from the bottom of your heart answer the following questions

1 is it better for the ngwa to be classified as igbo or would you prefer being recognised as a distinct group?

2 do you understand any other version of igbo apart from ngwa and the centralised version?

3 dont you think that the nigerian government has stigmatised igbo so much so that if given the chance igbo might break up faster than nigeria?

ChinenyeN:

I guess. . . I can see what you're saying. It is unlike me, but I did find it rather offensive, especially considering the contributions I've made here on NL, regarding Igbo topics and issues like this. Oh well though, I'm largely over it, but just out of curiosity, does my response really look that bad though?

you just normally keep your cool even in the face of actual and worse insults, hence my surprise.

i didnt even think andre uweh was being serious with that post, because it seemed so funny.

This Ika rubbish nEeds to stop. Abiriba, Aro, Ohafia areas all have Efik-Ibibio influences infact Aro and ABiriba have Efik- Ibibio mix but its not due to Efik expansion into Igbo land. How come we from that side are very proud to be Igbo regardless of our mixed background? Ika situation is no different and the sooner some of yall stop thinking there is anything special about u and ur Bini mix the better for you. If u are so close to Bini ppl how come they slaughtered ur behinds during the war? U people make me laugh. Stop having inferiority complex. If the language you speak is atleast 70% Igbo you are Igbo regardless of ur Igala, Bini, Ijo or EFik-Ibibio mixture.

tpiah:

you just normally keep your cool even in the face of actual and worse insults, hence my surprise.

i didnt even think andre uweh was being serious with that post, because it seemed so funny.

Hmm. .  I didn't know people noticed me that much, here on NL. Anyway yeah, I really do see what you're saying. I normally do keep cool and level-headed. So, I can't really justify this thing with Andre, but it is what it is. I'm over it now though.

[center]---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]
Well, Abagworo, from the bottom of my heart? Okay.
1 is it better for the ngwa to be classified as igbo or would you prefer being recognised as a distinct group?
----- Better isn't really the word that I would use. . . Instead, I'd say that socio-culturally, it would be proper to classify Ngwa as an "Igbo group" (NOT subgroup), and socio-politically proper to classify Ngwa as distinct. But in all honesty though, I would prefer for Ngwa to be classified as an ethnic identity/group/nationality (and I see it only proper that Ngwa be classified as such). If though, that is not an option (meaning, if opposers want to remain adamant in standing against the recognition of Ngwa as an ethnic identity), then I'd see it fitting that Ngwa be classified as an Igbo sub-ethnic nationality or sub-ethnicity. The classification of "sub-ethnic nationality" or "sub-ethnicity" is less than desireable for me, but will be the only other thing that I will find agreeable.

2 do you understand any other version of igbo apart from ngwa and the centralised version?
----- Generally speaking, yes, to an extent. I can understand Ndoki, Echee, Ikwere and Mbaise, if they don't speak too deeply for me. As for the centralized Igbo, it took a lot of getting used to, but I can understand it, not entirely though.

3 dont you think that the nigerian government has stigmatised igbo so much so that if given the chance igbo might break up faster than nigeria?
----- Honestly, I'm not all too keen on this "division" discussion, but to answer your question, no. . not necessarily. I don't particularly see it that way. Although, I'm certainly not denying the role NG has in it all. I just wouldn't lay the responsibility of Igbo 'break up' solely on NG.

ChinenyeN:

Well, Abagworo, from the bottom of my heart? Okay.
1 is it better for the ngwa to be classified as igbo or would you prefer being recognised as a distinct group?
----- Better isn't really the word that I would use. . . Instead, I'd say that socio-culturally, it would be proper to classify Ngwa as an "Igbo group" (NOT subgroup), and socio-politically proper to classify Ngwa as distinct. But in all honesty though, I would prefer for Ngwa to be classified as an ethnic identity/group/nationality (and I see it only proper that Ngwa be classified as such). If though, that is not an option (meaning, if opposers want to remain adamant in standing against the recognition of Ngwa as an ethnic identity), then I'd see it fitting that Ngwa be classified as an Igbo sub-ethnic nationality or sub-ethnicity. The classification of "sub-ethnic nationality" or "sub-ethnicity" is less than desireable for me, but will be the only other thing that I will find agreeable.

2 do you understand any other version of igbo apart from ngwa and the centralised version?
----- Generally speaking, yes, to an extent. I can understand Ndoki, Echee, Ikwere and Mbaise, if they don't speak too deeply for me. As for the centralized Igbo, it took a lot of getting used to, but I can understand it, not entirely though.

3 dont you think that the nigerian government has stigmatised igbo so much so that if given the chance igbo might break up faster than nigeria?
----- Honestly, I'm not all too keen on this "division" discussion, but to answer your question, no. . not necessarily. I don't particularly see it that way. Although, I'm certainly not denying the role NG has in it all. I just wouldn't lay the responsibility of Igbo 'break up' solely on NG.

your answer is clear and goes on to prove question 3.if given the chance,most igbos would renounce their ethnicity.it also proves to a point that ikas are igbos.denial of igbo is one of the characteristics of igbos.this was as a result of numerous origins,migrations and multi-cultural mix amongst the igbo.

Abagworo:

your answer is clear and goes on to prove question 3.if given the chance,most igbos would renounce their ethnicity.it also proves to a point that ikas are igbos.denial of igbo is one of the characteristics of igbos.this was as a result of numerous origins,migrations and multi-cultural mix amongst the igbo.

What else would one expect? Pan-Igbo identity is not as old or as strong or as distinct as that of the various Igbo group consciousnesses. Pan-Igbo identity is too loose and broad to actually hold weight, in the grand scheme of things. It is too loose and broad to actually foster a one-group consciousness, which is what some people here are trying hard to erroneously convey. This makes denial of Igbo a rather easy. In fact, the most Igbo thing the Igbo groups can do is deny Igbo identity and only acknowledge their true consciousness. So what else would one expect?

ChinenyeN:

What else would one expect? Pan-Igbo identity is not as old or as strong or as distinct as that of the various Igbo group consciousnesses. Pan-Igbo identity is too loose and broad to actually hold weight, in the grand scheme of things. It is too loose and broad to actually foster a one-group consciousness, which is what some people here are trying hard to erroneously convey. This makes denial of Igbo a rather easy. In fact, the most Igbo thing the Igbo groups can do is deny Igbo identity and only acknowledge their true consciousness. So what else would one expect?

let us first consider definition of an ethnic group

An ethnic group is a group of people whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage that is real or assumed.[1][2] This shared heritage may be based upon putative common ancestry, history, kinship, religion, language, shared territory, nationality or physical appearance. Members of an ethnic group are conscious of belonging to an ethnic group; moreover ethnic identity is further marked by the recognition from others of a group's distinctiveness.[

the bolded is the most important factor.agbor lies next to benin and benin call them ovwigbo(igbo people) long before the coming of colonialists.even during the civil war,they were slaughtered in benin.coming down to rivers state,it is no hidden fact that why peter odili was denied vice president had influences from edwin clarke protesting against an igbo taking the turn of the niger delta.the links are still everywhere on the net.inspite of michael jackson appearing as white later in his life,everyone still considered him black till death.

How is that bolded the most important thing? It is not necessary for the development of a distinct group consciousness. It is also not necessary for the perpetuation of a distinct group consciousness. I understand it's function though. It helps to further legitimize a group consciousness's distinctiveness, but that's as far as it goes; furthering legitimacy. It isn't the basis for legitimacy though. So I can understand that it is important, but I don't understand how it is the most important.

what one feels about himself is most times locked within him.it only becomes his attributes when recognised by an outsider.

So even if a group exhibits all the qualities of an ethnic group and can (and does) defend their claim to distinction, they will still not be considered an ethnic group, so long as others do not recognize their distinction, no matter how real it is?

ChinenyeN:

So even if a group exhibits all the qualities of an ethnic group and can (and does) defend their claim to distinction, they will still not be considered an ethnic group, so long as others do not recognize their distinction, no matter how real it is?

you are drawing us back by mentioning qualities of an ethnic group.ok what are the qualities that makes one distinct?remember you might personally feel distinct but to others you have no differences.for example in ngwaland,an osisioma man whose area is highly urbanised might feel distinct from isialangwa man whose area is rather backward and highly into crime,does that make them any different?ngwa is ngwa so is igbo igbo.even though the ngwas have continued to tarnish the image of the igbo nation,i have never seen any igbo man coming out to disclaim them because we are all igbos.same goes with every part of igboland.

Abagworo:

you are drawing us back by mentioning qualities of an ethnic group.ok what are the qualities that makes one distinct?remember you might personally feel distinct but to others you have no differences.for example in ngwaland,an osisioma man whose area is highly urbanised might feel distinct from isialangwa man whose area is rather backward and highly into crime,does that make them any different?ngwa is ngwa so is igbo igbo.even though the ngwas have continued to tarnish the image of the igbo nation,i have never seen any igbo man coming out to disclaim them because we are all igbos.same goes with every part of igboland.

Words of wisdom from you Abagworo.

It is what it is, I guess. I'm not too keen on the whole 'Igbo' thing anyway (at least, not the way others are). As far as I know, I identify myself as Ngwa (or Ngwa-Igbo, at best), and I'm satisfied with being an Ngwa son. People can also feel free to gloss me over as "Igbo". After all, I do, to an extent, recognize the existent similarity to other Igbo-like clans. More importantly though, the glossing does not disrupt me being Ngwa nor my clan consciousness. It's not as if I'm being obligated to forego Ngwa and adopt "Igbo". So no qualms, I guess.

ChinenyeN:

It is what it is, I guess. I'm not too keen on the whole 'Igbo' thing anyway (at least, not the way others are). As far as I know, I identify myself as Ngwa (or Ngwa-Igbo, at best), and I'm satisfied with being an Ngwa son. People can also feel free to gloss me over as "Igbo". After all, I do, to an extent, recognize the existent similarity to other Igbo-like clans. More importantly though, the glossing does not disrupt me being Ngwa nor my clan consciousness. It's not as if I'm being obligated to forego Ngwa and adopt "Igbo". So no qualms, I guess.

I doubt if anyone is dragging the above with you.You seem to be one that is always repeating it to yourself as if someone is threathning your ngwa consiousness.

I stated that no one was doing such. I certainly don't believe that anyone is doing such. Do my posts really make it seem as if I believe such?

ChinenyeN:

I stated that no one was doing such. I certainly don't believe that anyone is doing such. Do my posts really make it seem as if I believe such?

Some of your posts actually do.I actually feel it is the detatchment from nigeria in general that makes it so