Hello Tonye_T

Is Matthew 23:23 really New Testament ~ since Jesus was still alive?

Hebrews 9:16-17
In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living.

^^^ Now that is on point

Thank you for the well-considered response, Tonye-T. I think I quoted the Biblical view on testaments, but let us agree to disagree.

@Tonye-t,

Do YOU accept the Word of Jesus? Do YOU accept the scriptures? OR, do you CHANGE the Word?

In Matthew 23:23 Jesus confirmed that the Scribes and Pharisees ought to tithe ON THEIR HERBS (increase of the seed) but NEVER did He mention that they should be tithing on their INCOME. The Scribes and Pharisees were teachers and lawyers but were never told they should be tithing on their income.

Do YOU accept God's definition for His tithe? God reserved a tenth of the crops and animals raised on the Holy land. He did NOT ask for, or command, or reserve a tenth of any man's income. That is pure manipulation of God's Word.

YOU obviously don't understand Numbers 18:27, which proves that income canNOT be tithed on.

OLD TESTAMENT - THE FIRST OF THE FRUITS SHOULD GO TO GOD
Proverbs 3:9 (KJV) “Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:”

NEW TESTAMENT - THE WORKER SHOULD BE FIRST TO RECEIVE A SHARE OF THE FRUIT
2 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) “The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.”

Now, are YOU going by the Old Testament or the New Testament?

You just can't take God's Word and change it to fit the times. Christians are supposed to CHANGE THEIR LIFE STYLE TO FIT THE SCRIPTURES, not the other way around.

During Biblical times they had wages, income, money, but did NOT tithe on wages, or any other type of income, or money.

God gave us His Word to FOLLOW, not change.

Zikkyy:

Lets see what you got

I'll take that to mean that you've never seen scriptures that support what i posted.
Well then, Numbers 18v23,24(i'm on a phone). 'The tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave-offering unto the Lord, I have given to the Levites to inherit'. This offering was a part of the income of the children of Israel. Whether you call it offering i.e heave, or tithe, or a tenth. It's the same thing. And it was the offering of the children of Israel. In another place, He says this whole nation. But what we see now is guys trying to cut it and say it's not the whole nation, but farmers only. And the new one now is that it's not all the farmers, but farmers in Israel.
Well the Bible says they were to give that tenth from their income, their gain, their harvest, what came in, what they reaped. It's all the same thing. The tithe was holy unto God i.e seperate/consecrated to God(Leviticus 27). The remaining 90percent is yours. You can and should spend it on God(it's His technically BTW), yourself and those around you. It's yours, it's in your own power as it were.

@Image123,

God didn't say "this whole nation" should tithe. You need to quote scripture for everything you say, not just say it says it somewhere.

Malachi 3:9 (KJV) "Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation."

What God is saying here is that the PRIESTS have robbed Him; thus, THEY have robbed the whole nation.

And just HOW did they rob God? By stealing the Levites portion of the tithe!

Let’s look at Malachi 3. First, who is God speaking to – the priests or the people?
We need to study the entire Book of Malachi rather than take a few verses out of context.

By the time we get to verse 6 in chapter 1, we see it is the priests that are being addressed at that point.

In both chapters 1 and 2 of Malachi there is a conversation going on between God and the priests. Every time the word "you" is used, it is referring to the priests. Chapter 3 continues with this conversation. In verse 5 God says "And I will come near to you to judgment…, " In the Old Testament, during this period of time and generally speaking, only the priests could get near to God. It is only in the New Testament that born again believers, you and I, can get close to God. So up to chapter 3 verse 5, God is speaking to the priests. The word "you" is still referring to the priests. There is nothing in the scripture to indicate this changes when you get to verse 8. But that's not all.

Read Numbers 18:29-30 and then read Malachi 1:14. Those verses explain robbing God of the offerings. The PRIESTS, not the people, robbed God of the offering by giving to God the worst instead of the best.

In Nehemiah 13 we are told that the priests stole the Levites portion of the tithe; therefore, they had no food to eat at the temple, and they went back to their own fields.

Therefore, taking the Levites portion of the tithe is the robbing God of the tithe. Or to put it another way, THE LEVITES WERE ROBBED. God said He was robbed because the tithe was not taken where God directed.

Next, in Malachi 3:10 God says to bring all the tithes to the storehouse. The people took the tithes to the Levites who lived in the Levitical cities, not to the temple. The Levites took the required tithe of the tithe to the temple. (See Nehemiah 10:37-38) Only those tithes ever made it to the temple. The priests then took those tithes to the storehouse. It only makes sense if God is speaking to the priests in this verse.

Since in Numbers 18 God makes it perfectly clear that the tithe belongs to Him, and He gave it to the Levites, anyone who takes God’s tithe to their local church must also be robbing God since the Levites are not the ones getting it.

I see no way around this. Either the tithe ended per Hebrews 7:18, OR those who take God’s tithe to their local church must be robbing God since God gave clear instructions where to take His tithe. There is nothing in God’s Word to show that God ever changed those instructions. Therefore, the only conclusion I can reach is that taking a tithe to your local church is NOT paying the tithe to God. It is giving it to man. Nowhere in God’s Word does He give permission for the Christian Church to receive His tithe.

Therefore, IT IS A SIN AGAINST GOD to take God’s tithe to your local church. IT IS A SIN for any pastor to accept God’s tithe.

Dulcet7:

Does God require [/b]tithes from [b]Christians? Keyword: require?
Please enlighten us.
I thought tithes are a voluntary sacrifice? I thought tithes are like fasting i.e. it is for the person's good but it should not be made compulsory?

Well, i don't think anything is compulsory, in a sense, in the christian faith. But the scripture is saying that our duty is to fear God and keep His commandments. If He has commanded us to tithe, or to love, or not to steal, kill or covet, then we do His bidding. Obedience, i say again, is not compulsory. But it's God's way, it brings down the blessing, and it's better than any sacrifice from us.

@Image123,

You need to go back to Exodus.  The Twelve Tribes of Israel were headed to the promised land.  God gave the tithing command to the Twelve Tribes of Israel - eleven would inherit the promised land, and THEY would take God's tithe to the twelfth tribe (the tribe of Levi) who inherited the tithe INSTEAD OF the promised land.

Those who inherited the promised land took the tithe to those who did NOT inherit the promised land.

NO ONE ELSE TITHED.

The tithe was on GOD'S INCREASE (assets) not man's income.  The farmers SOLD THEIR CROPS AND ANIMALS FOR MONEY but the income was NOT tithable.  They had to tithe on the ASSETS - the crops and animals - whether they sold any or not.  Had NOTHING TO DO with income.

God DEFINED HIS TITHE in Leviticus 27:30-33.  God didn't say a tenth of all increase, or a tenth of fish, or a tenth of anything not mentioned in HIS definition.

In Numbers 18 God commands HIS tithe be TAKEN TO THE LEVITES.  At NO TIME did God give any pastor or Christian Church permission to receive His tithes.

Either believe the scriptures, or believe your pastor.  I choose to believe God's Word over some pastor.

@Image123,

Are YOU being obedient to God's Word by CHANGING God's definition of His tithe, and CHANGING where God commanded His tithe to be taken?

You are disobeying God's command to take His tithe to the Levites.

. Nowhere in God’s Word does He give permission for the Christian Church to receive His tithe.

The tithe is brought to the church now because the church is the representative of God on earth. And because of the anointing.

Numbers 18:8
8 And the Lord spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever. 

The reason the priests received the tithes of the people was because of the anointing upon the priest. The same way God has anointed the ministers in the church to recieve the tithes of the people.  

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live[ of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.


Or what do you  think the scripture here is making reference to?

Malachi 3v9 is very clear to the sincere reader. You're free to read it in different versions. It says 'you have robbed me, even this whole nation'. You say 'the priests have robbed God, therefore the whole nation'. I dey laugh o, americana. For reasons known to you, you've decided to keep on cutting God's Word. Who made you a divider? Malachi 1v1. The Word of the Lord to ISRAEL by Malachi. ISRAEL ISRAEL ISRAEL. na wa o. Thank God the Bible is written in english.

@Joagbaje,

The tithe was taken to the Levites, not the priests, and then the Levites took a tenth of the tithe to the priests.  The Levites were the servants to the priests - the ushers, singers, musicians, etc.

The tithe was given to the Levites to keep up the Temple WHERE THE SPIRIT OF GOD LIVED.  Now the Spirit lives within our bodies.  Our bodies are now the temple.

"Living of things of the Temple" doesn't necessarily refer to the tithes.  Furthermore, the tithes were NOT used for the Temple, but rather for those who took care of the Temple.  The Temple Tax was used for the Temple.

@Image123,

'you have robbed me, even this whole nation'

The whole nation was robbed because, according to Nehemiah 13, the priests stole the Levites portion of the tithe at the Temple, and the Levites had to go back to their homes in order to have food. THE TEMPLE WAS CLOSED. No one could go to the Temple for prayer, food, or anything else. IT WAS CLOSED. THAT, my friend, shows that the whole nation was robbed.

Malachi is being spoken to the priests. I have already proven that.

The Israelites took the tithe to the Levites in the Levitical cities, NOT to the Temple, so when Malachi says take all the tithes to the storehouse, it has to be referring to the tenth of the tithe that the Levites took to the Temple for the priests.

@image123

'you have robbed me, even this whole nation'

Doesn't say this whole nation has robbed me. Doesn't say you and this whole nation has robbed me.

But to avoid an argument on this point, just suppose I am wrong here. You still haven't shown me or anyone else that tithing was ever commanded on income, nor have you shown anyone that God gave any pastor or Christian Church permission to receive His tithe.

garyarnold
I still dey laugh o, seriously. You should be writing nigerian films, you are very imaginative. The church/temple/tabernacle is where the storehouse is. You give your offerings(including tithe) there as unto God not unto men. For truly, He receives them, of whom it is witnessed that He lives.
If you wish to convert your tithe to crops, and you feel the storehouse will use it better that way, please do go ahead. Afterall, we're under grace, aren't we?

Image123:

garyarnold
I still dey laugh o, seriously. You should be writing nigerian films, you are very imaginative. The church/temple/tabernacle is where the storehouse is. You give your offerings(including tithe) there as unto God not unto men. For truly, He receives them, of whom it is witnessed that He lives.
If you wish to convert your tithe to crops, and you feel the storehouse will use it better that way, please do go ahead. Afterall, we're under grace, aren't we?

Image123: Seriously, there is nothing to write in those Nigerian "films" (movies to the rest of us), Gary laid out his case and all you can come up with is the very WEAK defense? Come on man!

Tonye-t(tithe), Dude, I thought you have "repented" from this tithe thing my brother, Since you claimed that the "first tither was blessed" I guess after ending the war with lots of booty, can you please indicate to us when/where/how he was blessed? An also, why didn't he continue this tithe thing?

Let's forget for once that he didn't have the COVENANT with God at this point since he was still called "Abram"

You either follow God's commands on tithing or you don't. You can't change the definition and ordinances and then claim you are tithing per God's Word.

In the Old Testament, the firstfruits went to God by taking them to the priests at the Temple. Firstfruits means first of the crop, NOT first part of income.

In the New Testament, the firstfruits belong to the farmer.
2 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) - The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.
2 Timothy 2:6 (NIV) - The hardworking farmer should be the first to receive a share of the crops.

In the Old Testament, you gave to God by taking the tithe to the Levites, taking firstfruits to the priests, and through burnt and other sacrificial giving.

In the New Testament, you give to God by giving to the needy/poor. See Matthew 25:42-45.

In the Old Testament, they had laws to follow. They had no Holy Spirit to lead them.

In the New Testament, born-again believers are given God's Holy Spirit. Those who are led by The Spirit need no laws. If they follow the Spirit's guidance, they will do God's will.

It makes no sense to try to bring forward an the Old Testament law of tithing when the New Testament teaches a better way.

Abraham gave a tenth of war spoils but kept nothing for himself. Some try to somehow link this to the later commands to tithe. But there is a problem linking the two.

1 - We only have scripture to show that Abraham gave a tenth ONE time, and ONLY on war spoils.
2 - The later Mosaic law required a tenth of crops and animals, but NOT a tenth of war spoils. In fact, God only claimed a small fraction of a tenth of war spoils under the Mosaic law.
3 - There is no scripture to show that Abraham gave a tenth of crops and animals.
4 - Therefore, what Abraham did was NOT carried forward into the law, and what the law required was NOT followed by Abraham. There is NOTHING similar between the two other than the word tenth or tithe.

There is nothing similar between the tithe commands in the Old Testament and the made-up tithe taught by false teachers today except the word tithe.

In Deuteronomy 8:18 we learn that God gave us the ABILITY to produce wealth - He gave us the ABILITY to work and earn a living. When we work, it is OUR labor. The Biblical tithe came from GOD'S labor, not man's labor. Man cannot make crops and animals. God NEVER commanded anyone to tithe on anything that man makes or earned.

Those who teach "storehouse-tithing" teach that the local church has replaced the Old Covenant Temple as the expected recipient of tithes. Therefore, the most-often quoted text, Malachi 3:10, which commands "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse" is appropriate for them.

First, it is assumed that the ordinary people were commanded to bring all tithes of the nation to the Temple in Jerusalem.

Second, it is assumed that the Temple contained a storehouse large enough to hold the tithe of all Israel and that it was part of David and Solomon's original Temple.

Third, it is assumed that the Church is called a storehouse in order to establish and justify a reason for bringing tithes to the church.

For the following reasons, the above storehouse assumptions are in error.

1. The overwhelming majority of the tithes of the nation were taken, not to the Temple, but to the Levitical cities.

Neh 10:37 And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage.

The Levitical cities are not hidden in Scripture. They are mentioned or alluded to in Leviticus 25:32-34; all of Numbers 35; all of Joshua 20 and 21; 1st Chronicles 6; 2nd Chronicles 11:13-14; 31:15-19; Nehemiah 10:37-38; 11:3, 20; 12:27-29, 44; 13:10 and Malachi 1:14. At first there were 48 Levitical and priestly cities. Later Judah had 13, including Hebron and Jericho. Jerusalem is not listed.

2. The Levites and priests received the overwhelming majority of the tithe, not in the Temple, but in the Levitical cities.

Neh 10:37 … and the tithes of our ground [bring] unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage.

Neh 10:38a And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes …
3. Only the Levites and priests, not the people, were commanded to bring tithes into the Temple.

Neh 10:38b … : and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.

Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse …

Either Malachi 3:10 contradicts Nehemiah 10:37-38 or else it has been mis-interpreted. Since Nehemiah and Malachi occupy the same time in history, they must be describing the same circumstances. Malachi 1:6 and 2:1 are specifically addressed to the priests of Israel and not all of Israel. If one follows the pronoun "you" from 1:6 (except for the brief 3rd person sequence of 2:10-12), God never changes his address from the priests to the people in general. "Ye sons of Jacob" in 3:6 could easily refer only to the priests and "this whole nation" in 3:9 could easily refer to "this whole nation -- of you priests."

4. It was physically impossible for the Temple to hold all of the tithes of Israel.

1 Kings 6:6 The nethermost chamber was five cubits broad, and the middle was six cubits broad, and the third was seven cubits broad: for without in the wall of the house he made narrowed rests round about, that the beams should not be fastened in the walls of the house.

1 Kings 6:10 And then he built chambers against all the house, five cubits high: and they rested on the house with timber of cedar.

Neh 13:5 And he had prepared for him a great chamber, where aforetime they laid the meat offerings, the frankincense, and the vessels, and the tithes of the corn, the new wine, and the oil, which was commanded to be given to the Levites, and the singers, and the porters; and the offerings of the priests.

Neh 13:9 Then I commanded, and they cleansed the chambers: and thither brought I again the vessels of the house of God, with the meat offering and the frankincense.

The chambers, or store-rooms, which surrounded the Temple were only 7 1/2 ft, 9 ft and 10 1/2 ft wide and 7 1/2 ft high. (They were probably in 3 tiers giving the shape of wings.) According to Nehemiah 13:5, 7, 9, only two of these chambers held the tithes, offerings and others items.

5. There was no need for the Temple to hold ALL the tithes of the entire nation. Thus the typical interpretation of Malachi 3:10 that "ye" means "all people" makes no sense unless it only refers to priests.


2 Chron 23:8 So the Levites and all Judah did according to all things that Jehoiada the priest had commanded, and took every man his men that were to come in on the sabbath, with them that were to go out on the sabbath: for Jehoiada the priest dismissed not the courses.

Only about 2% of the Levites and priests served in the Temple most of the time. Ninety eight per cent (98%) of those who needed the tithe for food stayed in the Levitical cities. Only males older than 20 served one week at a time every 24th week in the Temple. The wives and younger children stayed in the Levitical cities. The 24 "courses" or "families" are mentioned or alluded to in First Chronicles 23 to 26; 28:13, 21; Second Chronicles 8:14; 23:8; 31:2, 15-19; 35:4, 5, 10; Ezra 6:18; Neh. 11:30; 12:24.

Therefore, since 98% of those who required tithes for food were not in Jerusalem, then it makes no sense to teach that ALL of the tithes MUST be kept in the Temple in Jerusalem. Thus the common interpretation of Malachi 3:10 must be in error. In this context Malachi 3:10 only makes sense if it refers only to priests per Nehemiah 10:38-39.

6. From careful contextual reading of Nehemiah 10:37-38; 12:42-44 and 13:5-10 one must conclude that the Levites and priests brought whatever tithes they required with them from their cites when they went to the temple to serve for one week at a time.

Nehemiah 13:5 says that the tithes were removed from "a great chamber" to provide quarters for Tobiah. Common sense teaches that these quarters were not extensive. Verse 7 again calls it a "chamber." And in verse 9 Nehemiah cleans the "chambers" (plural). Most commentaries conclude that this means two small chambers turned into one large chamber

In other words, the phrase "storehouse tithing" actually only refers to "store-ROOMS" inside the Temple. The largest combined room would be 21 feet wide by 21 feet long by 7 1/2 feet tall (1 Kg 6:6, 10). Those dimensions could hardly accommodate the tithes from the whole nation! Again, it would have been impossible, improbable and illogical to conclude that two small storerooms inside the temple could hold all the tithe of the entire nation.

7. Another "storeroom" text is:

2 Chron 31:11 Then Hezekiah commanded to prepare chambers in the house of the LORD; and they prepared them,

2 Chron 31:12 And brought in the offerings and the tithes and the dedicated things faithfully: over which Cononiah the Levite was ruler, and Shimei his brother was the next.

This was the same Temple which David and Solomon had built and, evidently, it did not contain storage space for all the tithe of the nation. This lack should prove that it was never intended to store all the tithe at the Temple.

2 Chron 31:4 Moreover he commanded the people that dwelt in Jerusalem to give the portion of the priests and the Levites, that they might be encouraged in the law of the LORD.

In error King Hezekiah commanded the ordinary people to bring all the tithes to the Temple in Jerusalem. Due to his idolatrous predecessors the Temple had been closed and the exact location for tithes had been forgotten.

2 Chron 31:6 And concerning the children of Israel and Judah, that dwelt in the cities of Judah, they also brought in the tithe of oxen and sheep, and the tithe of holy things which were consecrated unto the LORD their God, and laid them by heaps.

2 Chron 31:7 In the third month they began to lay the foundation of the heaps, and finished them in the seventh month.

Many sermons on tithing are preached from these texts. Yet the food is rotting in the streets because there is no place to store it. Something is wrong.

2 Chron 31:9 Then Hezekiah questioned with the priests and the Levites concerning the heaps.

King Hezekiah had to "question" the priests and Levites because something was evidently wrong. All tithes of the nation were never intended to be brought to the Temple. The "storehouse tithing" concept was built on a mistake!

2 Chron 31:10 And Azariah the chief priest of the house of Zadok answered him, and said, Since the people began to bring the offerings into the house of the LORD, we have had enough to eat, and have left plenty: for the LORD hath blessed his people; and that which is left is this great store.

After gathering enough to feed the Levites and priests, the chief priest asks the assembled Levites and priests what should be done with the "great store" left over. First they "prepared chambers in the house of the LORD" to hold their immediate needs (31:11-12). This was the two small store-rooms mentioned in Nehemiah 13.

Second, they sent the remainder, the "great store" BACK TO THE LEVITICAL CITIES where it belonged. This is detailed in 31:15-19. And these texts are almost always completely ignored by tithe teachers who focus on verses 5-7 because it destroys their "store-house tithing" doctrine. In reality "storehouse tithing" only referred to two small store-rooms in the Temple while "Levitical city tithing" would be a far more accurate term.

8. There is no biblical reference to the New Covenant church as a "storehouse." According to reputable historian Philip Schaff the early church did not have its own buildings for over 200 years after Calvary and they were quickly destroyed every time a tragedy was blamed on them by the idol-worshipping Roman citizens. Church buildings did not become legal until after AD 324 --almost 300 years after Calvary. Therefore there was no such thing as a church "building" to "store" anything when the New Testament was written.

Christian tithe-teachers say a lot about the “storehouse” of the church. In order to justify this they juggle the Greek verb thesaurizo, translated ­ “storing up,” from First Corinthians 16:2 in order to manipulate the Greek text. The phrase is literally “by himself, to place, storing up.” The text does not call the church a “storehouse”; it merely tells the contributor what to do with the gift. Many commentators even say it means “store up at home” with no reference to a church building.

Those same Christian tithe-teachers will not use Second Corinthians 12:14 for their example of the church “storehouse.” Yet Paul used the same Greek verb, ­thesaurizo, while saying “the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children.” At least, as far as Paul was concerned, the gospel worker, should be working in order to provide for the needs of the poor in the church. He repeated this thought in Acts 20:29-35.

The Christian concept of the church as the storehouse is very unscriptural. In Malachi’s context, the storehouse was primarily the responsibility of the political authority, the governor, to ensure that it was maintained. Kings controlled the temple wealth. Scripture records seven times that kings gave away wealth from God’s temple storehouse and from their own royal storehouse (1 Kings 14:25-26; 15:18; 2 Kings 12:18; 14:14; 16:8; 18:14-15; 20:13-19; 24:13). Do you want your government to be able to do this?

For the following reasons, proper explanation of the context of Malachi does not convert its storehouse into the “storehouse of the church”:

One: From the discussion above, THE storehouse in Jerusalem did not permanently contain the whole tithe. Since most priests and Levites required the tithe in the Levitical cities where they and their extended families lived, most of it was kept there. The food went to where the people lived. According to Second Chronicles 31:15-19 and Nehemiah 12:44 and 47, only enough daily portions (or weekly for each course) were brought up from the Levitical cities to feed those currently ministering in their rotation. This was only a very small portion of the WHOLE tenth of the Levites and of the “tenth of the tenth” of the priests (Neh. 10:37-38).
Two: While Old Testament storehouses were considered to be the property of the religious state, most New Covenant churches are not.

Three: While Old Testament storehouses received political aid to collect its tithes, most New Covenant churches do not.

Four: While Old Testament storehouses held tithes of food, New Covenant churches collect money which was never included in the biblical definition of tithe.

Five: While the Old Testament festival and poor tithes provided food for the needy, most New Covenant churches which collect all of their so-called “tithes” keep most of them for themselves and do not become heavily involved in welfare work.

Six: While the Old Testament storehouse provided sustenance for its national priesthood, the New Covenant teaches a priesthood of all believers.

Seven: While the Old Testament storehouses promoted priestly sacrifices according to the Law, New Covenant church leaders are new offices under new principles.

Eight: While most of the Old Testament storehouse was for the priests’ portion of firstfruits, firstborn, temple taxes, and vow offerings, this pattern is not followed by New Covenant churches.

Nine: While Old Covenant tithing was a separate fund from free-will offerings for buildings and maintenance, many New Covenant churches place all needs into a total program and correctly eliminate the Old Covenant tithing principle.

Ten: Since orthodox Jews do not handle money or collect offerings on their Sabbath, it is doubtful that early Jewish Christians would have changed this tradition by handling money at a church. Yet Christians gather most of their money on their holy day.

Eleven: While the Old Testament Temple, like the pagans, became an illegitimate banking storehouse (treasury), the New Covenant church is not to be used as a commercial bank storehouse, or treasury.

Twelve: While those who received the first Levitical tithe to sustain their work in the Temple in exchange for no property ownership, the New Covenant gospel worker does not receive tithes and is not required to forfeit property ownership.

Russell Earl Kelly, PHD
www.tithing-russkelly.com

Image123:

Well then, Numbers 18v23,24(i'm on a phone). 'The tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave-offering unto the Lord, I have given to the Levites to inherit'. T[b]his offering was a part of the income of the children of Israel.[/b] Whether you call it offering i.e heave, or tithe, or a tenth. It's the same thing. And it was the offering of the children of Israel. In another place, He says this whole nation. But what we see now is guys trying to cut it and say it's not the whole nation, but farmers only. And the new one now is that it's not all the farmers, but farmers in Israel.
Well the Bible says they were to give that tenth from their income, their gain, their harvest, what came in, what they reaped. It's all the same thing. The tithe was holy unto God i.e seperate/consecrated to God(Leviticus 27).

I don’t understand you guys, first you say the tithe pre-date the law then you go quoting Malachi. The event in Malachi relates strictly to the tithing practice under the Mosaic Law. It’s hard to get a clean shot with you guys dancing left, right and centre  You guys should stop dancing around abeg  I need you to make up your mind; pre-law or post law?

The Jews were not required to tithe from other source of income aside agricultural produce. Nowhere in the bible will you find the requirement to tithe monetary income or assets. In all instances where tithe was mentioned, it was strictly agri-produce. I am sure there were other professions at the time, or other source of earnings. And if you must pay cash, you must pay additional 20% of the tithe, the tithe (in cash) then becomes 12%. See Leviticus 27:30-32 below. So you see you are not doing the right thing.

Leviticus 27:30-32 (NIV)
30 “‘A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD. 31 Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it. 32 Every tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the LORD

Numbers 18:25-28 (NIV)
25 The LORD said to Moses, 26 “Speak to the Levites and say to them: ‘When you receive from the Israelites the tithe I give you as your inheritance, you must present a tenth of that tithe as the LORD’s offering. 27 Your offering will be reckoned to you as grain from the threshing floor or juice from the winepress. 28 In this way you also will present an offering to the LORD from all the tithes you receive from the Israelites. From these tithes you must give the LORD’s portion to Aaron the priest.

2 Chronicles 31:5-6 (NIV)
5 As soon as the order went out, the Israelites generously gave the firstfruits of their grain, new wine, olive oil and honey and all that the fields produced. They brought a great amount, a tithe of everything. 6 The people of Israel and Judah who lived in the towns of Judah also brought a tithe of their herds and flocks and a tithe of the holy things dedicated to the LORD their God, and they piled them in heaps.

Nehemiah 10:37-39 (NIV)
37 “Moreover, we will bring to the storerooms of the house of our God, to the priests, the first of our ground meal, of our grain offerings, of the fruit of all our trees and of our new wine and olive oil. And we will bring a tithe of our crops to the Levites, for it is the Levites who collect the tithes in all the towns where we work. 38 A priest descended from Aaron is to accompany the Levites when they receive the tithes, and the Levites are to bring a tenth of the tithes up to the house of our God, to the storerooms of the treasury. 39 The people of Israel, including the Levites, are to bring their contributions of grain, new wine and olive oil to the storerooms, where the articles for the sanctuary and for the ministering priests, the gatekeepers and the musicians are also kept.  “We will not neglect the house of our God.”

Nehemiah 13:5 (NIV)
5 and he had provided him with a large room formerly used to store the grain offerings and incense and temple articles, and also the tithes of grain, new wine and olive oil prescribed for the Levites, musicians and gatekeepers, as well as the contributions for the priests.

Nehemiah 13:12 (NIV)
12 All Judah brought the tithes of grain, new wine and olive oil into the storerooms.

garyarnold:

Since in Numbers 18 God makes it perfectly clear that the tithe belongs to Him, and He gave it to the Levites, anyone who takes God’s tithe to their local church must also be robbing God since the Levites are not the ones getting it.

I see no way around this. Either the tithe ended per Hebrews 7:18, OR those who take God’s tithe to their local church must be robbing God since God gave clear instructions where to take His tithe. There is nothing in God’s Word to show that God ever changed those instructions. Therefore, the only conclusion I can reach is that taking a tithe to your local church is NOT paying the tithe to God. It is giving it to man. Nowhere in God’s Word does He give permission for the Christian Church to receive His tithe.

Therefore, IT IS A SIN AGAINST GOD to take God’s tithe to your local church. IT IS A SIN for any pastor to accept God’s tithe.

This is very correct if you rely on Levitical tithing practice (including Malachi) as justification. There is no way a Jewish Christian would have given his tithe to Apostle Paul.

Joagbaje:

The tithe is brought to the church now because the church is the representative of God on earth. And because of the anointing.

Joagbaje:

The reason the priests received the tithes of the people was because of the anointing upon the priest. The same way God has anointed the ministers in the church to recieve the tithes of the people.

Oga Jo, na wa for you Everything is anointing based You go don 'chop' people plenty with this ‘anointing’ stunt Take am easy na. Who tell you say the prophets of old, Elijah and Elisha them no get anointing? Dem collect tithe?

This tithe issue is simple: if don't believe it; good no problem stay poor or rich with your believe and if you do then stay true to your believe the fact is that though now we know in part but the time cometh when Christ shall appear and we shall see Him just as He is
1 Co 13: 9
"For we know in part, and we prophesy in part."

1Co 13:10
"But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away."

1Co 13:12
" For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

The question is simple, if you know how the tithe according to scripture calculated then comment and lets not keep repeating same issue over and over again.

All through scripture, we have in records of the percentage allocated to the tithe

Gensis 28:22
" And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee."

Num 18:21
And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

Even the what
Lev 27:30
And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.

The Where
Mal 3:10
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it

Heb 7:5
And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

@newmi,

Of course a tithe is a tenth. The word tithe means a tenth or a tenth part.

Anyone can give a tenth of their income to the church and call it tithing if they wish, but no one should infer that a tenth of their income is the Biblical, or The Lord's Tithe, because it isn't.

Crops and animals raised outside the Holy land were NOT accepted as God's Holy tithes, so what makes you believe your income would qualify?

All this tithing lie started around 1870 when church leaders decided they wanted more money and decided to start teaching that you tithe on your income. Dishonest and/or ignorant church leaders started all this (just research the history of tithing on income), and now dishonest and/or pastors perpetuate this lie.

Christians need to stand up to this false teaching.

Many pastors come right out and admit, in private, they they lie about tithing.

I learned a while back that I can't believe what a pastor says any more than I can believe a used-car salesman. I don't blindly accept what a pastor preaches. I check it against the scriptures to find out who teaches truth and who teaches lies.

Correction:

Dishonest and/or ignorant church leaders started all this (just research the history of tithing on income), and now dishonest and/or ignorant pastors perpetuate this lie.

Christians should stand up to false teaching on tithe ke? Is like you don't have something better to stand up against. That's one main issue i've got on tithes, it's almost insignificant in true perspective, but people keep writing papers and long epistles about it, and screaming about it like it's the gate to Heaven or hell. i've tried to avoid tithe issues for awhile now, but seems i'm stuck in this one now, so let's see to it. I hope to get in the mood.
@ogagim
It's film/movie that you saw to comment on. And now that gary has posted a lengthy article, i'm expected to paste my own lengthy article in kind, so that my 'defense'(what a name to describe it) would not be seen as WEAK ba? Sorry, i can't spend that kind of time on tithe or not to tithe.
Just to throw in some comments though, this arguement about 'Abraham not continue his tithing' keeps surfacing with a host of others we've dealt with previously.
Well, the Bible records Abraham's tithe once, BUT doesn't say he only gave tithe once in his life. The Bible is not the biography of abraham, or jacob. The Bible is about Christ, and even all He(Christ) did couldn't have been written down.

You can't assume that Abraham tithed more than once. We can only go by what the scriptures tell us.

IF Abraham was a regular "tither" then I doubt that Jacob would have put conditions on God before he would give a tenth.

Abram gave a tenth of war spoils that DIDN'T EVEN BELONG TO HIM, and he kept NOTHING for himself. That is the ONLY example given. Is that "tithing?" When you tithe, do you keep nothing for yourself? Do you give a tenth of something that doesn't even belong to you?

Use some common sense here.

For God's sake, i'm i really expected to go back to all this. Abraham's tithe has been well treated on this forum(i still recall that 'bitta' viaro/nuclear saga). I don't see me going back to all that. Abraham didn't give tithe of someone else's property. He gave of the spoils, he didn't touch Sodom's or Lot's. It was the spoil gotten from the 5dictator kings which God helped him defeat. He owned the spoils
Abram was a giver. He gave his Isaac, even his whole life to God. He doesn't need an introduction. By your reasoning now, we can't assume that he prayed more than was recorded in the Bible. We can't assume that Isaac made any sacrifice or ever gave to the poor. All those people who lived 600 and more years never did anything but begat and died. Only Isaac meditated in his time and so on and forth. Abraham didn't live on logics of struggling on giving his tenth either to Melchizedek(who had enough to even feed Abram) or to the poor slaves of mesopotamia. He didn't say he'll eat his tenth in the presence of God at Mt moriah. He was a better christian than many of us, He didn't even have Genesis to read.

Image123 obviously has run out of ideas or simply hit a wall at this point, how else can one explain his " the Bible is not a biography of Abraham or Jacob" submission? He might just come back with "the Bible is not a biography of our Lord Jesus Christ" next time.

It is pretty HARD to fight for or justify a SCAM.

Pastor JoAgbaje on the other hand is riding the "anointing" gravy train to it's very end as if the rest of us Christians somehow forget to recieve our own anointing from our Lord Jesus Christ who bequeathed the Holy Spirit to us as a Guide.

We pray one day these guys see the light and embrace it fully before it's too late.

The king of Sodom had an original right both to the persons and to the goods, and it would bear a debate whether Abram’s acquired right by rescue would supersede his title and extinguish it; but, to prevent all quarrels, the king of Sodom makes this fair proposal (v. 21).
--Should the Church Teach Tithing by Dr. Russell Earl Kelly, pages 24-25


We have a completely different and much better relationship with God than Abraham had. It calls for a totally different way of life—led by the Spirit and tailored to each person uniquely and individually. Consider the differences between a believer in Jesus Christ and Abraham:

Abraham had not been redeemed by the blood of Jesus.
Acts 20:28;   1 Cor. 6:19, 20;   Eph. 1:7;   Col. 1:14;   Heb. 9:12;   1 Pet. 1:18-19;   Rev. 1:5, 5:9.

Abraham's sins were not remitted (totally forgiven and washed away) they were only temporarily covered and overlooked.
Matt. 26:28;   Acts 10:43;   Eph. 1:7;   Col. 1:14;   Heb. 9:11-14, 10:1-23.

Abraham had not been baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit.
1 Cor. 12:13;   Gal. 3:27.

Abraham was not in an actual spiritual union with God.
John 14:16, 17, 20, 23, 17:21, 23;   1 Cor. 6:17;   Eph. 5:30, 32.

Abraham's old nature had not been crucified with Christ.
Rom. 6:2-11;   Gal. 2:20, 6:14;   Col. 3:3.

Abraham had not been born again and spiritually re-created with God's own divine nature in him.
John 3:3-8;   1 Cor. 6:9-11;   2 Cor. 5:17, 18, 21;   Gal. 6:15;   Eph. 2:10, 4:24;   Col. 3:9, 10;   Titus 3:5;   1 Pet. 1:3, 23;   2 Pet. 1:4;   1 John 4:17.

Abraham was not a son of God with the same standing as Jesus Christ in God's family.
John 1:12;   Rom. 8:14, 19, 29;   Gal. 4:6, 7;   Eph. 2:5, 6;   Heb 2:10, 11, 12:7;   1 John 3:1, 2.

Abraham had not been made the righteousness of God. (His faith was only counted for righteousness.)
Rom. 5:19;   1 Cor. 1:30, 6:11;   2 Cor. 5:21, 6:14;   Eph. 4:24.

Abraham could not say, “It is Christ that lives in me.”
John 15:4, 5, 17:21-23;   Rom. 8:10;   2 Cor. 13:5;   Gal. 2:20;   Eph. 3:17;   Col 1:27, 3:11;  
1 John 3:23, 24, 4:4.

Abraham was not the temple of God. God did not dwell in him.
1 Cor. 3:16, 6:19;   2 Cor. 6:16.

Abraham did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit to lead him.
John 7:39, 14:16, 17, 16:7-15;   Acts 2:4;   Rom. 8:9, 11, 14, 15, 23, 26;   1 Cor. 2:12;   2 Cor. 5:5;   Gal 3:2, 14, 4:6, 5:18;   Eph. 3:16;   1 Thess. 4:8;   1 John 3:24, 4:13.

Abraham had not been delivered out of the power of darkness and translated into the kingdom of God's Son.
Luke 1:68-74;   John 5:24;   Rom. 5:17, 6:6, 7, 12, 14, 18, 22, 8:2;   Gal 3:13;   Col. 1:13, 2:15;   Heb. 2:14, 15.

Abraham had not been made alive with Christ, raised up with him, and seated with him at the Father's right hand.
Eph. 1:19-2:1, 2:4-6;   Col. 2:12, 13, 3:1.

Abraham had not been blessed with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places in Christ.
Eph. 1:3;   Rom. 8:32;   1 Cor. 3:21, 22;   2 Pet. 1:3.

Image123 obviously has run out of ideas or simply hit a wall at this point, how else can one explain his " the Bible is not a biography of Abraham or Jacob" submission? He might just come back with "the Bible is not a biography of our Lord Jesus Christ" next time.

It is pretty HARD to fight for or justify a SCAM.

Pastor JoAgbaje on the other hand is riding the "anointing" gravy train to it's very end as if the rest of us Christians somehow forget to recieve our own anointing from our Lord Jesus Christ who bequeathed the Holy Spirit to us as a Guide.

We pray one day these guys see the light and embrace it fully before it's too late.

Is the Bible a biography of Abraham, ehn ogagim? And you think the light is all about tithe or no tithe? grow up, or better still, wake up.
@gary

The king of Sodom had an original right both to the persons and to the goods, and it would bear a debate whether Abram’s acquired right by rescue would supersede his title and extinguish it; but, to prevent all quarrels, the king of Sodom makes this fair proposal (v. 21).

Am i dreaming here? the king of sodom was defeated, and ran away. The spoils were THE GOODS OF THE 5 KINGS. Sodom's goods couldn't make Abram rich.

We have a completely different and much better relationship with God than Abraham had.

Indeed.

@Zikky

I don’t understand you guys, first you say the tithe pre-date the law then you go quoting Malachi.

The tithe covers every dispensation. Just like love, you find it before, during and after the law. The scripture is One, i can quote any of it freely. It was written to us all, not to some sect somewhere. I quote OT and NT, i don't cut them apart. All scripture is given by inspiration of God and profitable, you're the one needing to make up his mind as it seems scattered in pre and post law eras.

In all instances where tithe was mentioned, it was strictly agri-produce. I am sure there were other professions at the time, or other source of earnings.

But we just spoke about Abraham. ok ok ok, don't get mad at me, i'll quote 'other' instances. SOme have been quoted by you and gary, just that you didn't see them.

2Chronicles 31:5 And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly.
Tithe of all things, not "strictly agric-produce"
Luke 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of ALL that I possess.
The pharisee got ya'll right there. And btw, by the way, we are "sure there were other professions at the time, or other source of earnings". Like been a Pharisee or a scribe or a fisherman, or a carpenter, right?
Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Let's assume together that they were just doing overr sabi, right? This stuff is strictly for farmers in the holy land,ba? Not educated scribes

And if you must pay cash, you must pay additional 20% of the tithe, the tithe (in cash) then becomes 12%. See Leviticus 27:30-32 below. So you see you are not doing the right thing.

This must be one of those imaginations. You quoted the passage nowww, let me quote it for you again.Leviticus 27v31
31 Whoever would redeem any of their tithe must add a fifth of the value to it.
That word is 'redeem'. That is if someone doesn't want to give his tithe(which usually came as agric-produce), like maybe he needs it urgently, or it looks so fine he wants to keep it for himself, then he'll give 12% in cash. So again, you've said it without knowing it, the tithe could be given as something different from agric produce.

There is no way a Jewish Christian would have given his tithe to Apostle Paul.

Why should there be a way? The levites were alive and well, and the temple was functioning, with Paul, Peter, John and the team frequenting the place like Jesus. You see, what you don't see is that the tithe is not man's property, it is God's. It wasn't for Peter to collect for himself, neither was it for the famous poor. the tithe was holy.
Hebrews 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
The bolded is present tense, not 'had' but 'have'. They understood the tithe, they didn't claim that others were thieves and ignorant and that the tithe was scam and fraud. You know where Paul was arrested? In the temple. He brought his offerings, and those of others, he wasn't playing God was speaking to the moon, bedroom or storehouse.