Hello,

If you believe in God and spend most of your wakeful moments doing God-related things, is there any chance that God pays no attention to you at all? Does he care about you? Does he even know about your existence?

Believers-in-God claim that God is omniscient, ie, knowing all. If this is true, at this very moment in time, does God know all those people who are gonna end up in hell? Does he already know all those babies born today whom he is gonna torture eternally in hell?

Believers-in-God also claim that God is omnipotent, ie capable of doing anything. If God is omnipotent, is he capable of changing the plight of those babies born today who are gonna end up in hell?

Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb
I sanctified thee, . . . .

Ecclesiastes 11:5
As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child:
even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.

kola oloye:

Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb
I sanctified thee, . . . .

Ecclesiastes 11:5
As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child:
even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.

So what conclusion can you draw from the above verses in view of my questions? That when a baby is conceived and born, god already knows whether this baby is gonna be an atheist, for example? Is that correct?

God did not destined anyone to be an atheist.It is the power of CHOICE ,(freewill) that He gave to us.

Deuteronomy 30:14-16 (King James Version)

14  But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

15  See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

16  In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his
       commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply:
       and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

@ huxley

If you believe in God and spend most of your wakeful moments doing God-related things, is there any chance that God pays no attention to you at all? Does he care about you?  Does he even know about your existence?

Believers-in-God claim that God is omniscient, ie, knowing all. If this is true, at this very moment in time, does God know all those people who are gonna end up in hell?  Does he already know all those babies born today whom he is gonna torture eternally in hell?

Believers-in-God also claim that God is omnipotent, ie capable of doing anything.  If God is omnipotent, is he capable of changing the plight of those babies born today who are gonna end up in hell?

God created all souls. but unfortunately we were not matured and could realize the qualities of God that we as souls possesses. so God created the lower universes and sent us down here to go through the experiences of life and at the end become mature and come back home to It to become  co-workers with It.

so if there is one thing that God knows it is that no one is going to any hell to burn for ever and that all souls will come back home to It as matured souls. it is only a question of time. and that time is up to you because also God gave us free will to decide when we are ready to start the journey back home. so it is all up to you.

kola oloye:

God did not destined anyone to be an atheist.It is the power of CHOICE ,(freewill) that He gave to us.

Deuteronomy 30:14-16 (King James Version)

14  But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

15  See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

16  In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his
       commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply:
       and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

But does God know whether a foetus in the womb is gonna end up an atheist in adult life?

Does that foetus have the "Power of Choice"? Does a one-day old baby have the "Power of Choice"? Supposing the foetus or baby dies, does it end up in heaven or in hell?

HUXLEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
where has your sorry self been all this WHILE?

God created us in his own image thereby giving us power to choose what we want and what we don't want. Now, be it known to you that God does not create anybody for hell and he also does not force us in our choice. It is your choice that determines where you will spend eternity. When God created Adam and Eve he showed them the evil tree and told them the consequences of taking its fruits. And until they ate that fruit, their relationship with God was cordial. Today, God is warning people of the consequences of sin and those who refuse to choose God's way which is the way of righteousness end up in hell which is where the originator of sin is.

alexleo:

God created us in his own image thereby giving us power to choose what we want and what we don't want. Now, be it known to you that God does not create anybody for hell and he also does not force us in our choice. It is your choice that determines where you will spend eternity. When God created Adam and Eve he showed them the evil tree and told them the consequences of taking its fruits. And until they ate that fruit, their relationship with God was cordial. Today, God is warning people of the consequences of sin and those who refuse to choose God's way which is the way of righteousness end up in hell which is where the originator of sin is.

Hello,

How about those who not capable of choosing (such as foetuses, babies, infants, the brain-damaged, etc, etc) - who makes that choice for them? Does god know in advance where they are gonna end up?

Image123:

HUXLEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
where has your sorry self been all this WHILE?

Huxley is released for a season.

OLAADEGBU:

Huxley is released for a season.

Answer the questions - you dimwit. I suppose you cannot because religion has mashed you your brain.

@OLAADEGBU
Released for a season, right? a pity huxley didn't understand the biblical undertone in the phrase. He thinks you meant that he was coming from PRISON. Sinners and their sorry selves sha.
Huxley, your question should be "Do I know God at all?". This of course should be a rhetorical question because you don't know Him. so where really have you been all this while? me curious

@huxley,
infants and those category you are talking about dont go to hell when they die because they dont even know what is evil and what is good. They only try to follow others when they observe them doing something. But when a child gets to a stage where he has come to the knowledge of what is good and evil and he chooses to do evil then he stands to be judged.

@ huxley  (m)

Quote from: alexleo on Yesterday at 02:40:15 PM
God created us in his own image thereby giving us power to choose what we want and what we don't want. Now, be it known to you that God does not create anybody for hell and he also does not force us in our choice. It is your choice that determines where you will spend eternity. When God created Adam and Eve he showed them the evil tree and told them the consequences of taking its fruits. And until they ate that fruit, their relationship with God was cordial. Today, God is warning people of the consequences of sin and those who refuse to choose God's way which is the way of righteousness end up in hell which is where the originator of sin is.

Hello,

How about those who not capable of choosing (such as foetuses, babies, infants, the brain-damaged, etc, etc)  - who makes that choice for them?  Does god know in advance where they are gonna end up?

if you follow the doctrine of original sin according to Christianity, due to the sin committed by Adam and Eve  everyone is condemned unless you accept Jesus. so from the christian perspective of course all those people you mentioned babies, infants etc. will go to hell.

from the ECK view point, such souls simple inhabit those bodies for the purpose of having experiences. such souls simply drop those bodies when they are through with the experience and can decide to pick up another body to continue their experiences on the long journey back to God. no soul is going to any hell.

benodic:


@ huxley  (m)

if you follow the doctrine of original sin according to Christianity,

due to the sin committed by Adam and Eve everyone is condemned unless you accept Jesus.

so from the christian perspective of course all those people you mentioned babies, infants etc. will go to hell.

from the ECK view point, such souls simple inhabit those bodies for the purpose of having experiences.

such souls simply drop those bodies when they are through with the experience

and can decide to pick up another body to continue their experiences on the long journey back to God. no soul is going to any hell.

@benodic

Whoa, whoa, whoa . . .

Please do not misconstrue death for final judgment

The wages of sin is death (i.e. through the sin of Adam, death entered the system. Through one man, all men die)

God is just . . .

When the time comes He will be perfectly righteous (i.e. do the right thing) in His dealings with foetuses, babies, infants, the brain-damaged etc, etc

@ e36991

@benodic

Whoa, whoa, whoa . . .

Please do not misconstrue death for final judgment

The wages of sin is death (i.e. through the sin of Adam, death entered the system. Through one man, all men die)

God is just . . .

When the time comes He will be perfectly righteous (i.e. do the right thing) in His dealings with foetuses, babies, infants, the brain-damaged etc, etc

i thought you christians has made it perfectly clear that once somebody does not believe in jesus christ such a person is going straight to hell.
so are you saying that nobody is in hell yet? or that people will enter hell after the final judgement? if so are you saying that souls are hanging somewhere waiting for the final jugement? and if so where are they hanging waiting for this final judgement.
waiting your response.

benodic:


@ e36991

i thought you christians has made it perfectly clear that once somebody does not believe in jesus christ such a person is going straight to hell.

so are you saying that nobody is in hell yet? or that people will enter hell after the final judgement?

if so are you saying that souls are hanging somewhere waiting for the final jugement?

and if so where are they hanging waiting for this final judgement.

waiting your response.

@benodic

Hades

Image123:

@OLAADEGBU
Released for a season, right? a pity huxley didn't understand the biblical undertone in the phrase. He thinks you meant that he was coming from PRISON. Sinners and their sorry selves sha.
Huxley, your question should be "Do I know God at all?". This of course should be a rhetorical question because you don't know Him. so where really have you been all this while? me curious

True. We should really pity these atheists who think they know what the Bible is all about.

huxley:


Answer the questions - you dimwit. I suppose you cannot because religion has mashed you your brain.

Let's start with first things first. Do you now believe that God exists or is it that you are hoping that God will do nothing to disturb your disbelief?

@ e36991

Quote from: benodic on Today at 01:09:47 PM

@ e36991

i thought you christians has made it perfectly clear that once somebody does not believe in jesus christ such a person is going straight to hell.

so are you saying that nobody is in hell yet? or that people will enter hell after the final judgement?

if so are you saying that souls are hanging somewhere waiting for the final jugement?

and if so where are they hanging waiting for this final judgement.

waiting your response.

@benodic

Hades

and please kindly enlighten us where hades is located.

@ e36991

Quote from: benodic on Today at 01:09:47 PM

@ e36991

i thought you christians has made it perfectly clear that once somebody does not believe in jesus christ such a person is going straight to hell.

so are you saying that nobody is in hell yet? or that people will enter hell after the final judgement?

if so are you saying that souls are hanging somewhere waiting for the final jugement?

and if so where are they hanging waiting for this final judgement.

waiting your response.

@benodic

Hades

and please kindly enlighten us with where hades is located.
and if souls are really hanging there waiting for the final judgement day how come there are still ghosts hanging around the world.
or is it that the security in hades is lax and some souls can escape and  come to earth to torment people for a while before they are sent back?

@huxely.
God does not personally know every humanbeing on earth on a personal level. God only know people on earth through His laws. The Laws of God are perfect and they give to every creature exactly as the creature deserves. Thus one who does good will receive goodness; the reciprocal effects of this goodness will purify the individual, allowing him to achieve a lightness that will permit him/her to be lifted off the worlds of matter into the kingdom of God.

God does not know, neither does He seek to know, beforehand what the individual will decide. But He knows the consequence of each decision. Hence He sends prophets to warn people to make good the decisions. Once the decision is made, the individual is subject to the consequences of the decision.

The decision lies completely with man. God does not force man on what to decide, neither does He predestine man on what to decide. The choice lies completely with man; otherwise man would not have free will. But over many years of making wrong decisions, some humans have inclined themselves towards making bad decisions. Just as you can predict that a drug addict will do anything to take the drug he/she is addicted to. The same manner, prophets and knowing ones are able to predict, based on the inclination of the people, what decision the people will probably make. So in a way it is man that predestines himself, and not God.

It is due to this inclination developed by man, that God sends prophets to warn man to change his ways; hence develop an inclination towards goodness. No matter the inclination, if one prays for help, then in the face all situations he/she will receive the helps that he/she needs to make the right decision. Then over many years of making good decisions, the individual will be inclined towards making good decisions. This is tantamount to saying that his intuition, or his spirit has awakened.

So our future is not written in stones. The individual makes his fate.

I hope this helps. Feel free to raise questions.

Thanks

benodic:


@ e36991

i thought you christians has made it perfectly clear that once somebody does not believe in jesus christ such a person is going straight to hell.

so are you saying that nobody is in hell yet? or that people will enter hell after the final judgement?

if so are you saying that souls are hanging somewhere waiting for the final jugement?

and if so where are they hanging waiting for this final judgement.

waiting your response.

e36991:


@benodic

Hades

benodic:


@ e36991

and please kindly enlighten us with where hades is located.

and if souls are really hanging there waiting for the final judgement day how come there are still ghosts hanging around the world.

or is it that the security in hades is lax and some souls can escape and  come to earth to torment people for a while before they are sent back?

@benodic

". . .  ghosts hanging around the world"?   

You humored me and made me guffaw in aramaic

Please do not make the mistake. Ghosts and the dead are separate kettle of fish . . .

Ghosts have zero correlation with the dead except for one who is gullible and easy to take advantage of . . .

Moving on, I'll indulge you on the hades poser and volunteer this reference (i.e. Daniel 12:2)

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt"
  - Daniel 12:2 KJV

@ e36991

and please kindly enlighten us with where hades is located.

and if souls are really hanging there waiting for the final judgement day how come there are still ghosts hanging around the world.

or is it that the security in hades is lax and some souls can escape and come to earth to torment people for a while before they are sent back?

@benodic

". . . ghosts hanging around the world"? Shocked Shocked Shocked Grin

You humored me and made me guffaw in aramaic Grin Grin

Please do not make the mistake. Ghosts and the dead are separate kettle of fish . . .

Ghosts have zero correlation with the dead except for one who is gullible and easy to take advantage of . . .

Moving on, I'll indulge you on the hades poser and volunteer this reference (i.e. Daniel 12:2)

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt"
- Daniel 12:2 KJV

it is refreshing to jist with a christian with a sense of humour. so in terms of ghosts you say they are different from the dead. so pray what is your take on ghosts. what do you understand by the word ghost and how are they different from the dead?
so from the passage you just read, taking it literalily does it then mean that those that are dead are trapped in the dust of the earth awaiting the judgement day? expantiate please

[img]http://www.webweaver.nu/clipart/img/holidays/halloween/ghost09.gif[/img]

You mean this

Sorry only messing about 

benodic:


@ e36991

it is refreshing to jist with a christian with a sense of humour.  so in terms of ghosts you say  they are different from the dead.

so pray what is your take on ghost[/b]s. what do you understand by the word ghost and [b]how are they different from the dead?

so from the passage you just read, taking it literalily does it then mean that those that are dead are trapped in the dust of the earth awaiting the judgement day? 

expantiate please

@benodic

On a sober note . . .

Roger. Affirmative - Yes, ghosts are different from the dead

Ghosts are disembodied spirits . . .

Sure you'll agree that, everyone requires a body to legally have residency on Earth.

Christ is no exception . . . I'll leave the rest for you to fill in the gap.

Yeah, whatever spirit residing on Earth, short of a body is an immigrant operating illegally

Ghosts are unearthly familiar spirits (i.e. demons, fallen angels or what not) masquerading

and pretending to be what they are not (i.e.  make believe they are dead family members, dead relatives etc)

This reference (i.e. Luke 8:26-33 KJV) could lead to one of those ah-ha moments

^[27] When Jesus stepped ashore, he was met by a demon-possessed man from the town. For a long time this man had not worn clothes or lived in a house, but had lived in the tombs.

^[28] When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torture me!”

^[29] For Jesus had commanded the evil  spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places.

^[30] Jesus asked him, “What is your name?”

“Legion,” he replied, because many demons had gone into him.

^[31] And they begged him repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss.

^[32] A large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside. The demons begged Jesus to let them go into them, and he gave them permission.

^[33] When the demons came out of the man, they went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned.

[url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Samuel%2028&version=NIV]1 Samuel Chapter 28[/url] is a good read too.

[url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%208:28-32&version=NIV]Matthew 8:28-32[/url] and [url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%205:2-13&version=NIV]Mark 5:2-13[/url] though a re-hash of Luke 8:26-33 wouldn't hurt to read

@ e36991

i really like your sense of humour. keep it coming please. it is so refreshing.

so from what you have said so far ghost are products of disembodied spirits especially demons, evil spirits etc. so what produces the haunting phenomenon. where people see someone who has died before coming back to the place it used to live and tormenting the people there. and also the phenomenon of someone who has died appearing another place and even having a new family. how is that possible?
and also you did not answer my last question concerning the meaning of the scripture you quoted from daniels. people who are dead are they holed up in the dust of the earth waiting for the last judgement? please if there is any verse you are quoting from the bible try to write it out as i do not have the christian bible to look it up. thanks

benodic:


@ e36991

. . . so from what you have said so far ghost are products of disembodied spirits especially demons, evil spirits etc.

so what produces the haunting phenomenon.

where people see someone who has died before coming back to the place it used to live and tormenting the people there.

and also the phenomenon of someone who has died appearing another place and even having a new family.

How is that possible?

and also you did not answer my last question concerning the meaning of the scripture you quoted from daniels.

people who are dead are they holed up in the dust of the earth waiting for the last judgement? 

please if there is any verse you are quoting from the bible try to write it out as i do not have the christian bible to look it up.

thanks

@Benodic

" . . . I do not have a christian bible to look it up "

C'mon now, what's all that about. Uh?

What a cheap cop out. What a lame excuse. . . .

The referenced chapter and verses (i.e. 1 Samuel Chapter 28, Matthew 8:28-32 and Mark 5:2-13) were all hyperlinked . . .

All you needed to do, was to simply hover on them and click to pop out the chapter or verse contents for your reading delight

Go over my previous post (i.e. post #25) all over again, to know why people see someone who had died before come back to where they used to be

Re-read post #25, read the hyperlinked chapter and read the hyperlinked verse references.

benodic:


. . . the phenomenon of someone who has died appearing another place and even having a new family.

How is that possible? . . .

Hmmmm. Benodic! 

I salute and hail you

It is possible in the fertile and charitable imaginations of whoever is supposing that

Anyway slow and steadily. Dont force it yet . . .

Its not yet time to get feet wet because if or when the boat is getting pushed out, that's what is going to happen

@ e36991

i did not see the hyperlinks in those quoted verses. i have finally read through them.

sorry it definitely did not answer my questions. this is the funny thing with you Christians. ask a christian a question , he/she will simply quote verses of the bible and leave you high and dry.
can you give me answers in your own words for a change? make your answers clear and easily understandable. you must really be a very funny guy

benodic:


@ e36991

i did not see the hyperlinks in those quoted verses. i have finally read through them.

sorry it definitely did not answer my questions. this is the funny thing with you Christians.

ask a christian a question , he/she will simply quote verses of the bible and leave you high and dry.

you just simply left me in the state i was as a christian when i was seriously searching for the answers to the mysteries of life

and my pastor was busy telling me that any thing out of the ordinary is the works of the devil. and that ends it.

so i do not think that the bible has all the answers and i do not think that christians has the totality of truth as you claim.

i still believe that the truth lies within you for those bold and courageous enough to venture within and find it for themselves.

i beg to sign out.

@benodic

It is unsettling and not pleasing to read you feel this way and more . . .

benodic:

 

. . . can you give me answers in your own words for a change? make your answers clear and easily understandable . . .

You dont seem to realise that you've made a lot of preassumptions

For example, the "christian(s)" labelling/tagging is the zenith for a believer(s), taken for granted that ghosts marry and have families etc

The former is understandable, so excusable and can let roll but the latter, seriously, is preposterous, outlandish and ludicrous.

These questions you ask cant be rushed. Timing matters. Slow and steady at the beginning wins a marathon race . . .

Rephrasing ". . . The Truth lies within those that were bold & courageous enough to venture within and unlock the door to allow the Truth in . . ."

and adding that the truth is birthed with deep breaths, timed deep pushes and a role-playing midwife

You're right that the bible has not all the answers

The bible is a book communicating information about the author or owner and the owner's invention(s)

In essence it is similar to a manual with information about a manufacturer and the manufacturer's particular product

The manual aims to capture and reveal the mind of the manufacturer, the FAQs, the instructions/use, facts or figures of the products etc

The manual is not exhaustible with information because not all that is about the manufacturer

or was in the mind of the manufacturer concerning the invention will be fully documented

It is impossible for a manual to have all answers about the manufacturer or the manufacturer's invention . . .

You're also spot on that christians do not have the totality of truth as some of them claim

Here or this is where something called the Spirit of Truth comes into play

Are you familar with that phrase (i.e. Spirit of Truth) at all? . . .

Remember spirits require a body in order to operate legally on earth? Erh?

Seems I volunteered that info earlier or before? Hmm?

There is so much more I'll like to share with you but not sure you have the time and/or can bear it now.

Compounded questions cant be satisfactorily answered that easily . . .

I'll hold back in flashing verses at you for now but will share this much since it seems to be a burning quest to know

Simply put, the dead are not trapped or locked in dust but rather are passed on to a holding place waiting.

PS: This is a personal thing man, you will have to work out your salvation without anyone leaving you hung and dry

@huxley. . . I've read a number of your posts and i believe u know quite well dat none of these religious ppl can provide a concrete answer 2 d questn. Ask them is god and satan and they'll u god resides in d skies with his angels (and yet no aircraft has collided into them) and satan resides in hell/hades under d earth (which in essence is a graphical depiction of lairs flowing with molten magma and sulphuric gas). They will all claim 2 know him without any concrete proof of this "interaction" and the stories they'll tell u are culled from all they've been spoon fed with from childhood,sunday-sunday brainwashing sessions and Nigerian home video scenarios! I opened a thread 8 months ago asking for concrete proof of d existence of d christian which remains predictably unanswered till date except for usual expected childish tantrums and derailing comments. You know how it is. Nuff said!

@ e36991

you are so full of surprises. and i can see that you are not the ordinary run of the mill christian. i know a lot of christians who will never talk to me for life again if they read what i wrote to you.
so i am surprised at the way you took it. that shows quite a large measure of maturity. maybe we have some things to share indeed. i am even surprised that you replied on it as you see i clearly deleted the parts i deemed offensive as i didn't want to offend you.

but towards the end of your last post you started coming closer to what i was expecting. you read the scriptures, you assimilate it and then you tune in to the holy spirit to make some sense of what you read. that to me is a very important step.
so finally you gave an answer in your own words. quite a relief.
so a holding place you said. so in this holding place does it hold both the good and bad people in the same place together?