sbucareer:

@AfricanBoy try these IDE. We use it in my company. Believe me my company is big Software giant in the UK.

1. Eclipse Developed by IBM (International Business Machine)
2. Netbeans Popular among Sun download for Java JVM

Seems like sbucarreer stole my thunder

It is still this same 'write once run anywhere' feature that makes Java slower than C++. The byte-code is only an interpreted pseudo-code when deployed and still need to be compiled before it is run.

and this is where C# comes in. a much faster java-like language

Hi Y'all,

Well said. You guys have said a lotta stuff and instead of making points, you've suddeeded in confusing me the more. But what advice do you have for newbies wanting to get into Programming?

Thanks.

@poju, its all a matter of choice, i wouldnt advise anybody saying you must a particular language, @ least, i wont do that. pick a language, search the web, read book and pick one that you can work with.

there is not point studying linux languages if your clients work primarily with windows

@javaprogrammmers, is there any linux distro with a java virtual machine (not necessarily called that), or do your clients have to get the VM first.

considering that the essence of java is platform independence, i believe the .NEt framework is aiming for that,
before you lecture me on bugs and security flaws, i believe MS software is being attacked largely because it has a wide base. just think, if you had a virus that travels by "soft drinks", which of the following would you rather write the code for -
[list]
[li]coca-cola[/li]
[li]la casera[/li]
[li]any other bottled drink that is only drunk within a community[/li]
[/list]

NO dont tell me, i know - you would pick Coca Cola, why? it has a large distribution has compared to the otrhers mentioned. but now viri/worm wirters are shiftig attention to lesser known programs like CorelDRAW (do you know coreldraw has its own version of the VBA?). they are even attacking "anti-virus software"

still have part of my head left for your biting off

@poju: i'd advise u start with Java, then C#.

@africanboy: i don't see anything wrong with getting familiar with linux. it's gaining ground afterall. and yes, there are distros that have the JVM bundled with them. mandrake and suse i'm sure of.

and nobody is attacking the .NET. microsoft just has some poor programmers.

Hi Y'all,

Well said. You guys have said a lotta stuff and instead of making points, you've suddeeded in confusing me the more. But what advice do you have for newbies wanting to get into Programming?

Thanks.

Learn the basics of programming. Know what happen behind the scene, that way you will be able to take on any language.

@ poju

like joftech said learn the basics, decide which area interests you more. typically, systems dev, application dev, web dev e.t.c Read more on that area and pick and learn the languages that more popular in that field to start with. Then you can expand. Like anythingelse it mostly depends on how much effort you want to put into it.

@ africanboy

Fedora core 4 also comes with a VM. I believe you can choose not to install it though during setup. I do agree with you partly on the viruses. Linux's and Mac's purported security derives partially from their smaller market share. They do have a better/restrictive security model than windows though.

Another thing that make Linux secure is that the kernel is detached from the apps. If a rogue app go down it won't bring everthing down. From the ground up Linux was designed to be secure. But Windows has some legacy codes that are still ruining the show till 2morow.

@Poju i will recommend that you start with Basic.

Thanx guys. I think I'll just try and learn as much as I can basically around what interests me. But do u think Java is too hard?

I just taught I showed everyone on this thread how Java and Enterprise Architecture works.  If you have this architecture build into a programming language, tell me what on earth a programmer with this can't achieve?

See Java used with MVC Model

Thanx guys. I think I'll just try and learn as much as I can basically around what interests me. But do u think Java is too hard?

JAVA is damn hard to learn. The learning curve ain't worth it.

@subcareer dont feeling smart. java is hard and everyone knows. why must i know java for java sake? unless u dont want to face reality, MS will trounce java one day.

a php programmer might be cheap but from the enterprise point of view, who wants to spend 100K on a silly java programmer? java interface are so crass. duh!

@sbucareer, it's true i tried learning Java once and i have to backoff with immediate alacrity. I learn most programming languages that i know myself without taking any lecture(s), just learning on my own. Despite having some C++ background i still find it damn difficult to get the damn thing into my head. I gave the texts i was using to a friend, he abandoned learning it too.

Maybe if am able to get someone to sit me down all month long my brain will be receptive to Java's gospel. I don't know why a simple reading can't get it into my head despite the fact that i learnt VB, PHP, CF and even C++ by simply reading. Or is it that am dumb?

MS will trounce java one day.

MS has already done away with it. They did not remove that JVM in XP without a motive.

u know what, java guys like feeling like genius. oh sexy, they v learnt and master a difficult language. who cares? how many genius are running the world? who cares if u r smart and u cant deliver? mess java.

In my opinion, constructive criticism of a programming language should revolve around memory requirements, garbage collection (or the lack of it), flexibility in terms of target platforms, ease of debugging etc. It is important as has been mentioned in this thread on a number of occasions, to clearly understand the difference between java and java script before making blanket assertions.

My advice to the newbie would be to learn the basic principles of programming which apply to all languages first and then explore several languages. In my experience good programmers are confortable working in 2 or 3 languages and are aware of the advantages and disadvantages of each one as it is almost always the case that no single programming language is ideal for all situations.

yep, sbucareer's right. C++ is much more harder than Java. Java isn't hard. It's understanding OOP - thats the problem.

It surprise me too o, how can you easily learn C++ and still have difficulty with Java which is like little step brother to C++.

JAVA is Bullshit. Java programmers are suffer suffer programmers. VS.NET is the WAY for LIFE.

sbucareer i am glad u're a java person too.
would like to have a one 2 one conversation with u.

@bill gates kids
see eehn!! I am in naija and i know VB and C# solutions are dying by the day.
Java is taking over in different companies and institutions.
Univeristies and even near future banking and payment solutions.
the thing is, java is far easier than c++ and VB anytime anyday. The only reason u feel its easier than java is because u write with the AID of an IDE environment where everything is given to u on a platter.
wrote a bit of c# which of course microsoft stole from suns java COMPLETELY(just changed 2 upper cases), and i appreciated java more.
do u know how much space a piece of "hello world" code in c# or VB  takes on the hard disk?
how difficult it is for u as a developer to deploy ur MS programs cross platformly?
C++ is a bad asssss language anytime anyday, i agree, but java rules.
it started ruling on the web, took over enterprise and standalone apps, mobile platform rules on java thesedays.......its like a sin for ur mobile phone not to be java enabled thesedays (as its even stated as part of most phones features), also the smartcard environment is being swallowed by java too.

see guys, java is everywhere,the thing is just to master the one u know and use it to make a difference in ur environment .
but i will advice anybody who wants a future to roll into any platform he sees interesting on java.
its like a world of its own.
as for highest paid job spaces...........i think C programmers still earn highest followed by java developers.

my opinion.

@sbucareer
lets talk privately.......though cant see the "private messages" button anywhere

sbu man

u've come a long way
and i like ur style of coding, similar 2 mine.

we should really get to talk.

oh is this a programming history thread now?

ok. i started programming at the age of 14

I learned Java in an Object Oriented (OO) programming course I took in my 2nd year of University. It was challenging to learn some OO principles, but after the initial hurdle I found Java to be quite simple, actually. In my opinion, compared to C++ Java is much easier to program in, but with ease of use you do sacrifice some performance. It all depends on what task you want to achieve; there are lots of different programming languages, each optimized for specific problem domains.

I agree with nprime, believe me when you come to the UK you will be forced to learn C/C++ or java.  You buy Evening Standard all you see is Java this Java that. 

Let me actually say the truth, I was forced to learn java.  All the tops jobs that was going out there was java or C/C++. So I decided to settle for java.  If you want to learn C/C++ here is a free compiler from [url=http://community.borland.com/article/0,1410,20633,00.html]Borland[/url].
Programmers File Editor is a good IDE for C/C++ or other language


I used this shareware IDE to teach students in my part-time job.  Sorry did I forget to tell you that I am a teacher as well.

Download Borland C++ Compiler version 5.5 Free.  Install it and set your path to %PATH%\c:\borland\bcc55\bin.  Download and install the IDE, Programmer's File Editor. 

I will send another post to tell you how to configure the IDE to recognize the compiler

like i said before, i tried learning java, but in a country where (esp for me) you had to work 25hours a day to keep soul together. i had to learn the easiest language that would bring food to my table fastest.

still i dont like java, not because it is slow to learn. we were started on basic and moved to visual basic. truly, nigeria is still a microsoft country. virtually almost all clients in nigeria use the windows platform so i can be afraid of running out of clients to develop for.

and if i want inter-platform, i still wont use java.

repeating: java on my mobile phone is not my first choice when it comes to applications. i use nokia 6600 and i have numerous applications on my 128mb memory card. there are java games only, no apps. all my apps are symbian apps. they are just more comfortable to use. faster. more interesting.

i dont have a java apps on my PC, both home and office. what the heck! is this forum powered by java? maybe not. and it sure as hell is "tapping"

a typical client in nigeria (even enterprise companies and governments) will judge an interface first before the functionality...oh and you ust deliver fast.

still, Seun, create a tutorials category and let sbu do some teaching.

@africanboy

I think you are selling Nigeria short. As a consultant, I have worked with many clients here in Nigeria who are not only interested in the user interface (although it is important) but are also very particular about the architecture over which the solution is deployed. A significant number of clients have specifically requested J2EE solutions deployed in WebLogic, JBoss and so on but having said that I'm certainly not saying that everybody is or should be a fan of java.

One further point, unless I'm mistaken Symbian is an OS and you can in fact develop java applications that will run in Symbian. You can certainly argue that java applications run faster on Symbian than on other OS but the point here is the OS and not the programming language.