It is very very ver , y, wrong for women to lead in the Church. 
Abomination in the highest order.

Pilgrim are you heading your own local church  (You don't have to jump some portion of the Bible just to please yourself) if so, no wonder you are in support.  (When we see red lets call it red and white called white)

It is written boldly in the Word (shey u no the bible very well)

Anti-christ no bi just the real beast itself o, anti-christ is found in anyone that contradicts the word of God (Be careful)

If you talk and you no mention Catholic, u never talk. ( I'm sure in your dreams Na about Catholic u go dey dream)

Hi @Oby1,

Oby1:

It is very very ver , y, wrong for women to lead in the Church.
Abomination in the highest order.

I know you're only reacting from the tradition of the Roman Catholic Church. But sorry, RCC Mariolatry and the BIBLE are not the same thing - and we have demonstrated that FACT and continue to do so.

In the first instance, I never made any woman the HEAD of any Church - nor did I support such an idea anywhere. If you are in doubt, please go back to my posts and refer me to the exact line where I stated such.

Second, since you can be happy to scream that it is an ABOMINATION for a woman to lead the Church, did you take care to look at the same "ABOMINATION in the HIGHEST ORDER" in the Roman Catholic Church? Who is at the center of the MARIOLATRY of the VATICAN - a man or a WOMAN, MARY?!? From Genesis to Revelation, the RCC has put a WOMAN (MARY) at the center of its beliefs (Gen. 3:15 and Rev. 12:1 - which we have discussed before); and you are here screaming your guts out like a Greyhound Bus hit your backyard!

This is how dubiously they have sunk: open your Bible to Genesis 3:15 and ask yourself who actually bruised/crushed the head of the serpent - MARY or CHRIST? FYI, the Vatican wants you to believe it was MARY - and that is why you find that she is ALWAYS depicted as the Liberator! See:

[img]www3.50megs.com/jpg/woman12.jpg">http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:KBkE2zpn8-bmQM:http://dedication.www3.50megs.com/jpg/woman12.jpg[/img]

Tell me now, who is preaching ABOMINATION of the HIGHEST ORDER?!?

Third, if you have no clues as to what the Bible teaches on this subject, don't measure your arrival with such yodels until you have carefully and prayerfully looked into God's WORD.

Oby1:

Pilgrim are you heading your own local church (You don't have to jump some portion of the Bible just to please yourself) if so, no wonder you are in support. (When we see red lets call it red and white called white)

How many times have I answered your question in the same respect?

     ~ No, my debates are not about trying to make members for my local Church

     ~ No, my discussions are not centered on traditions of any denomination

     ~ No, I don't head my local Church.

I further asked you guys to please show me where in the WORD you find ANY single MAN alone heading the CHURCH. Have you done that? You're typically making vatican noise here which you haven't checked out previously.

Oby1:

It is written boldly in the Word (shey u no the bible very well)

Where is it written boldly in the WORD? What is written; HOW do you read?

This is why I'm discussing and also asking questions. If you don't understand, then seek c[/b]larification, and not [b]c[/b]aterwauls - both start with "[b]c" does not make them the same.


Hint: go and seek out the meaning of LEADERSHIP, and then your understand will yield fruit. Being called to leadership does not make someone THE leader!

Cheers.

You can paste whatever.

The truth is that is wrong for women to lead in the church (Is either you accept the truth or leave it). Truth they say is very better more than bitter leaf.

@Oby1,

Oby1:

You can paste whatever.

The truth is that is wrong for women to lead in the church (Is either you accept the truth or leave it). Truth they say is very better more than bitter leaf.

Yes, the truth is very bitter - and that is why you have not been able to face up to it.

Go back and read my posts and settle your qualms - there was nowhere I supported the stuff that made you scream initially.

Grace.

@pilgrim

The ordination of women to the Christian ministry, specifically the pastoral office of overseeing worship and performing preaching and the Lord’s Supper, is a recent development in Church history. From the early church until the late 20th century, women were never ordained as ministers, not in any branch of the Church, East or West, Protestant or Catholic.

It is today often assumed that the Church has been wrong about this, universally and consistently, for nearly 2000 years. This assumption holds that the Holy Spirit has either misguided the Church on this matter, or that the Spirit has allowed the Church to remain in error, for His own good reasons, and is only now correcting that error.

Now know that Both Paul and Peter refer to the Old Testament to justify the submission of woman to man; the creation of Eve after Adam (1 Corinthians 11:8–9) and the transgression of Eve before Adam (1 Timothy 2:12). out of 2 or more witness a truth is established.


1 Corinthians 14:34 states that women must not speak/preach in church "as also says the law" (KJV), 1 Corinthians 14:35 calls it "a shame for women to speak in the church," and that women should be taught only by their husbands.


Biblical feminists typically argue their position by

1) casting doubts about Pauline authorship
2) stating that Paul really believed something different than what he wrote
3) that Paul modified biblical guidelines to accommodate the cultural sensitivities of his time
4) that women were uneducated in Paul’s day.

Unfortunately, this displays one of a number of prevalent problems in the search for truth, the denial of divine inspiration by suggesting the truth was not really presented.

This prohibition of a woman to be a teacher does not include the teaching of classes of women, girls, or children in a Sunday School, for instance, but does prohibit the woman from being a pastor.

The Holy Spirit concludes by saying that a woman is to be silent. The Greek word for silent is HSUCIA meaning “silence, tranquility or rest.” Hurley agrees saying, “Its use in 1 Timothy 2 shows that Paul is not just calling for ‘buttoned lips,’ but for a quiet receptivity and a submission to authority . . .” The noted Greek scholar Ceslas Spicq says the word was used for “inaction, times of peace, as opposed to combat.” This suggests the possibility some of the women were “fighting a battle” to teach as well as to have leadership positions over the entire church. The rule is absolute - women cannot teach men and they cannot have a position of authority in the church

Hi @Backslider,

Backslider:

@pilgrim

The ordination of women to the Christian ministry, specifically the pastoral office of overseeing worship and performing preaching and the Lord’s Supper, is a recent development in Church history. From the early church until the late 20th century, women were never ordained as ministers, not in any branch of the Church, East or West, Protestant or Catholic.

I'm sorry to disappoint you. I haven't even begun to look at the traditions of the various branches of Christian denominations - I've stuck to the Bible and taken my answers from its pages. If you would like us to discuss the trend as it metamorphosed in the traditiosn of men, you might be in for a shock treament.

Second, Biblical leadership is NOT all about "overseeing worship" and the things you narrowed it to. It is far more involved than that, and I often ask readers to go back and define LEADERSHIP before making assumptions that reveal that your arguments are not actually reflecting a thorough grounding in the WORD. Anyone who has spent time looking at this subject from the Scriptures will have no difficulty understand what LEADERSHIP is all about.

Backslider:

It is today often assumed that the Church has been wrong about this, universally and consistently, for nearly 2000 years. This assumption holds that the Holy Spirit has either misguided the Church on this matter, or that the Spirit has allowed the Church to remain in error, for His own good reasons, and is only now correcting that error.

I don't know how many people have been peddling that assumption - but it is wrong!

Backslider:

Now know that Both Paul and Peter refer to the Old Testament to justify the submission of woman to man; the creation of Eve after Adam (1 Corinthians 11:8–9) and the transgression of Eve before Adam (1 Timothy 2:12). out of 2 or more witness a truth is established.

The only restrictions were about TEACHING in the Church - not about other concerns of LEADERSHIP in the Body of Christ! That is why I took time to funnel them sizeably into three (3) outlines for easier reading, even though I had discussed them extensively before.

Backslider:

1 Corinthians 14:34 states that women must not speak/preach in church "as also says the law" (KJV), 1 Corinthians 14:35 calls it "a shame for women to speak in the church," and that women should be taught only by their husbands.

The Scriptures do not teach that women should be taught ONLY by their husbands - because that would be saying that they shouldn't attend Church where the teaching is done by teachers in the first place!

Backslider:

Biblical feminists typically argue their position by

1) casting doubts about Pauline authorship
2) stating that Paul really believed something different than what he wrote
3) that Paul modified biblical guidelines to accommodate the cultural sensitivities of his time
4) that women were uneducated in Paul’s day.

None of your assumptions apply to my posts and discussions. If they do, please show them.

Backslider:

Unfortunately, this displays one of a number of prevalent problems in the search for truth, the denial of divine inspiration by suggesting the truth was not really presented.

And did I say that the divine truth of God was NOT presented in the WORD?

Backslider:

This prohibition of a woman to be a teacher does not include the teaching of classes of women, girls, or children in a Sunday School, for instance, but does prohibit the woman from being a pastor.

That would simply be saying that the gifts of the Risen and Ascended Christ in Ephesians 4 were meant only for men? I'd just say you need to go back and read those texts carefully before generalizing.

Backslider:

The Holy Spirit concludes by saying that a woman is to be silent. The Greek word for silent is HSUCIA meaning “silence, tranquility or rest.” Hurley agrees saying, “Its use in 1 Timothy 2 shows that Paul is not just calling for ‘buttoned lips,’ but for a quiet receptivity and a submission to authority . . .” The noted Greek scholar Ceslas Spicq says the word was used for “inaction, times of peace, as opposed to combat.” This suggests the possibility some of the women were “fighting a battle” to teach as well as to have leadership positions over the entire church. The rule is absolute - women cannot teach men and they cannot have a position of authority in the church

My dear, when James said that they were not to be many masters (James 3:1), he was particular addressing the MEN, even though his admonition was for all. If your argument here was to make women dumb and men garrulous and voluble, you've got it all mixed up.

Cheers.

Abeg oo!! wat has gender got to do with the Holy Spirit?? ?? ?? Somebody tell me oo.

ah,God go judge some people at the end time oo,Jesus said go into the world and tell everyone the Good news,he didnt say only the men oo,and there were women disciples that walked with Jesus then.

Wo,all i would say is that,may God Deliver men that love being superior to women,to the extent that the want to 'kill' the gospel of God.May they not see the wrath of God!!!

God who spoke through a donkey can use anyone for His Glory and get that fact right,God is bigger than a man's ego.

Ok,to solve the whole problem,men go to men-led churches and women should go to women-led churches.Abi

@Rachwise

You need not be worried. The word of God is not forced on no one.

@pilgrim1

I have made it very clear that the Leadership role of a Church is to the Man. If you have the gathering of the children of God it is only the man that must lead.

“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God” (1Cor. 11:3).

Genesis 3:6

The headship of the man is not part of the curse of sin. The women was originally made a help meet for man. The primacy of the man is stated by the Holy Spirit to be creational, not situational “For Adam was first formed, then Eve” (1Tim. 2:13). It was Adam who named Eve, and after the fall God calls Adam, the head of Eve, and who God held responsible for the fall. (Rm. 5).

The fall did strengthen the necessary dominance of the man, and enables man and women to enjoy compatible and complementary (being somewhat symbiotic) relationship. .

As God the Father and the Son are equal in essential nature, so are male and female in theirs, but there is a positional distinction which is ordained of God and thus is holy, just and good.

some use the ensample of Deborah the judges (Jdg. ch. 4, 5).

Context! Israel was in a backslidden state, and exceptions borne of necessity do not establish the norm or God's perfect will. . The days of the apostles were days in which the template for the church was laid, in which Jesus choose no women apostles, and no women were ordained as Bishops/Elders, and which Biblical faithfulness we are to seek.

Deborah's words in 4:9 intimates that it was a shameful thing that a man failed his leadership rule.

There are times, such as in the case of a single parent, when one gender may have to assume a role that he/she is not ordained for by nature. A mature born again women pastor would likely be better than a spiritually dead (in his sins) Roman priest. Yet even though good can result, in the end there will be aberrations that would be have been avoided if both men and women exercised their respective roles faithfully. We are to seek God's will to be done on earth, as it is in Heaven, from there the distinctions between man and women in in regards to leadership flows.

some quote Joel 2:28-29

A gift (or charism) does not equal position (nor even character), and a bishop/elder or pastor is a position. Simply having an ability to prophecy does not mean one can presume a position of leadership, and does not even assure one will go to Heaven (Mt. 7:22,23; Jude 11).

Men like Samuel were more than simply prophets. God forbid that any would say that sharing the gospel can only be done by men! There is a wide range of ministry women can do within their respective role – some it overlapping with what men do. Having authority over men and doctrine is the key issue, in which the women is to complement the man, not rule over men.

Another role is that of motherly ways of helping, as sister Phebe was doing in being “a succourer [helper] of many” (Rm. 16:2).

But notice who the women are to tell. There are not commissioned to be leaders of the church, but are to tell the men whom God has chosen to do so, and which is the historical constant with the Biblical church.


Finally there is a reason why God refers to Himself by the male pronoun, and it is not a reflection of circumstances nor in condescension to culture.

From the beginning the male was given the role of primary leadership and responsibility for it, and leadership was always male in the Biblical N.T. Church as well. The man is overall given primarily responsibility, and is overall held responsible when both men and women are joined in serving God. Thus Adam was held primarily responsible for the fall: “by one man sin entered into the world,” and “as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” (Rm. 5:12; 1Cor. 15:22).

It was the male leadership of the N.T church that God said must give an account for the care of their flock (Heb. 13:17).

The instructions for pastoral ordination in 1Tim. 3 and Titus 1 are specifically given to men, and in distinction what is expected of women.

@Backslider,

Backslider:

I have made it very clear that the Leadership role of a Church is to the Man. If you have the gathering of the children of God it is only the man that must lead.

Most of what you are trying to reharsh again have been dealt with in my previous posts. Not in a single line did I read you address even one of the several questions I posted in the course of my entries. Would you mind going through them and seeing for yourself that I've already attended to your concerns?

Secondly, I've requested that you try and define LEADERSHIP, because you're still mixing them up. A few entries back I neatly delineated them into 3 points and discussed them again extensively. Your rejoinder seems to have skipped those points - and that is why your rejoinders still hugely mix issues up.

When you have defined LEADERSHIP and understood the place of each one as outlined in Scripture, then the whole point will become clear to you.

Regards.

@pilgrim

Leadership in biblical terms is the House of God. The people of God. The true Holy Church is not lead by Women. A women can teach other women adults and kids.

Not the entirety of the church.

Backslider:

Finally there is a reason why God refers to Himself by the male pronoun, and it is not a reflection of circumstances nor in condescension to culture.

LOL . . . . this cannot simply be ignored. One must preserve this height of absurdities in a pristine condition, and add it to our extended catalogue of Backslider's infamous quotable quotes

Anyone that the God chooses to lead a church, that is who leads, not just a man. Daniel Ekechukwu who lives in Onitsha, who is a pastor of the gospel of Jesus Christ, he got into an argument with his wife one day, she slapped him and in the Nigerian male style, he was going to send her away from him for a year to teach her a lesson, that women are not supposed to act this way and that men rule. Well, he left home a few days later and got into a bad car accident, he died in the ambulance and was actually embalmed,this is documented on record at the hospital and morgue where his body layed for 3 days. While his body lay in that morgue, he was given a tour of Heaven and Hell, when he got to Hell, the angel guiding him, told him that if his record was called at that very moment, that he would be lost in that hideous place for all eternity!! He was shocked because of course, he is a well known pastor. Do you know why he would have been damned? He would not forgive his wife when she asked for it from him! This testimony can be found on www.insightsofgod.com. Enjoy!

The story as i can see is about forgiveness and does not relate to the topic on ground.

The position of the scriptures is very clear. Women may be great leaders but they are not to be Pastors, and Priest and Bishops or such like.

1 Corinthians 14:
34. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
KJV


1 Timothy 2:10-15

10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

The bible is not about sentiment's and we can not use modern trends to bend the scriptures. We are to conform our trends to the scriptures. The scriptures cited above are very clear in their meaning.
People may argue and persuade themselves any way they want but the Word of God remains sure.

Who has ears let him hear

@tomX:

The bible is not about sentiment's and we can not use modern trends to bend the scriptures. We are to conform our trends to the scriptures. The scriptures cited above are very clear in their meaning.
People may argue and persuade themselves any way they want but the Word of God remains sure.

Selective reading that pretends to be seeking Biblical truth does not help anyone. If it did, the Catholic Church would have smarted up ages ago.

Here's what I posted earlier - and until people see the difference between LEADERSHIP and merely fulfilling a role, this question will continue to lick through and receive no mature answers.

---

Often, a lot of people make the mistake of failing to understand that teaching is just one type of leadership - and that is another reason why they conclude that women cannot be leaders! It is remarkable that the apostle did not confuse the gifts of "teaching" and "governments" or equate them to mean the same thing in 1 Corinthians 12:28.  Let's remind ourselves of the distinctions he made between them:

"And God hath set some in the church,
first apostles,
secondarily prophets,
>> thirdly teachers,
after that miracles,
then gifts of healings,
>> helps,
>> governments,
diversities of tongues." (KJV)

Having mentioned teachers, he goes on to separately identify gifts and governments distinctly from the former by the use of "after that". His aim was not to confuse them, for they are not the same thing. Indeed, the word rendered "governments" in our common version (KJV) is alternatively rendered in other versions as 'leaders/(administrators)' [ALT]; 'administrations/(administrating)' [EMTV, ESV, ISV, NIV]; etc. The point is that these gifts are distinct and not confused to mean the same thing.

The examples we have in Scripture as to women fulfilling this role include Phoebe (or, 'Phebe'):

"I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant
of the church which is at Cenchrea: That ye receive her in
the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in
whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been
a succourer of many, and of myself also" (Romans 16:1-2).

The word "servant" in the text above being the Greek word "διάκονος" [diakonos] is simply "deacon" in our English translation. It is used in reference to those who serve in an official capacity as leaders in the Church (Php. 1:1). In the context of Rom. 16 cited for Phoebe, we can understand this usage in context of the explications offered in T[/b]hayer's [b]G[/b]reek [b]D[/b]efinitions helps us to understand:

[list]"a deacon, one who, by virtue of the office assigned to him by the church, cares for the poor and has charge of and distributes the money collected for their use."[/list]

Of course, we see Phoebe fulfilling the leadership role of 'helps and governments' in 1 Cor. 12:28. The text in Rom. 16 does not suggest to us that she was a [b]teacher - considering that in verse 2 the apostle well contextualize what he meant in acknowledging that "she hath been a succourer of many".

---

If Romans 16:1-2 does not say what it says, we're waiting for people to show us what is written in their own Bibles.

Cherio.

Oby1:

Who has ears let him hear

If you don hear something wey we never hear before, then share. All this hide-behind-me-and-complain is merely childish.

@Backslider,

Backslider:

@pilgrim

Leadership in biblical terms is the House of God. The people of God.

I hear.

You guys just take it easy

I don't see anything wrong for women leading church must it be men that must lead let us give women chance .Everything men will want to be the first. please l want us to understand that is not bad

Hi @florishn,

florishn:

I don't see anything wrong for women leading church must it be men that must lead let us give women chance .Everything men will want to be the first. please l want us to understand that is not bad

Actually, it's not about whether or not we "see anything" wrong in women leading Church. The truth of the matter is that we are asked to seek out what God has said - and that is all that matters.

Personally, women were not given to be the SOLE Leaders of ANY Church. The various roles and spheres of LEADERSHIP to which women were called in the CHURCH have always been in connection with the men; for the men were not asked to be in LEADERSHIP alone.

Cheers.

Amen.

@ Backslider
Hello sir! I can't help but applaud the way you expositorily dealt with this matter by using the bible as your fundamental basis. I do feel with the women in the house, however, I am not the one that wrote the bible and I will rather not do anything extra biblical. I will rather be said to be out of date and defend my conservativeness before God by opening the bible than be modern and not have concrete proofs from the bible other than speculations and assumptions. I don't know what these guys want to see again. It has been clearly spelt out. A woman is not to hold certain positions in the church and that is the end of the story.
I will like to refer PILGRIM.1 to the biography of Kathryn Kuhlman with emphasis on how she saw her ministry before God.

@PILGRIM.1,
Read Kathryn Kuhlman's biography. You can also study Maria Woodworth Etter.

@KDK,

Thank you for your recommendations.

I'll guarantee you just one thing: If Kathryn Kuhlman had taken the place of the Bible, then indeed you would have a point. If Kathrine Kuhlman is NOT the Bible, you simply have no point. QED.

If you had been patient enough to go through my rejoinders, perhaps you would not have been so quick to come to a hasty conclusion. All I have requested often times is simple: PLEASE, show me where I might have been mistaken - and let me see your answers from the Bible that the things I have discussed are not so; and that all the study tools that I have offered are NOT teaching what you read in my discussions.

If you conveniently look away from what is said in God's WORD and then ask me to look at Kuhlman or anyone else, I'm sorry you have missed the issue by a million miles.

If the Bible is not enough, nothing else will do for pilgrim.1.

Cheers.

Lord have mercy on us

It's a simple thing: the day you guys will show me that Kathryn Kuhlman is now above the Bible, I will have a rethink. QED.

@pilgrim1

Because you disobey your father it does not mean you will not have you birthday.

There is in the bible where a young prophet was mislead by an OLDER prophet it did not make it right.

You need to look at the scripture Katherine is not above scripture. M. Therisa is not about the Judgement of God. Judas was not above the Judgement of God.

The thing about Christianity is that you can sin and prosper but Judgement will come.

@Backslider,

Backslider:

You need to look at the scripture Katherine is not above scripture.

Thank you for your recommendation. But is that not what I have said earlier?

Here:

pilgrim.1:

If Kathrine Kuhlman is NOT the Bible, you simply have no point. QED.

- -
If the Bible is not enough, nothing else will do for pilgrim.1.

You guys should calm down and OPEN your eyes to read before trying to argue your case. You only end up confirming my point rather than makie any subtractions from them.

Cheers.

@Pilgrim.1,
Y the .1 sef? Neways, just to let you know that I don't see any where I categorically stated or indirectly inferred that Kuhlman or Maria Woodworth had superior views to that of the bible. I guess u conjured that up. If you weren't sure you should simply have asked me why I want you to read their biographies. Since you didn't ask and even though I indirectly told you, I will state it clearly, I wanted you to read their biographies so that you will know that they cede the ground that there are certain positions in the church not meant for women. Maria was the fore runner of women mounting the pulpit. Kuhlman was the most recent and the most powerful in modern history. Infact, Benny Hynn tailor her pattern as stated in some of his books.

I apologise if my tone is harsh or out of place. Had a long day.

I know it is a bitter pill to swallow but I didn't write the bible. Why not wait till u get to the white throne then you can throw your question @ Paul or God for allowing that instruction stay in the bible till this age as He had every chance to wipe it out before this time


This was the most balanced and well researched write up i could find on the net on this topic, please read it.

http://www.opc.org/new_horizons/9601a.html

I see no reason trying to place chaos where there is none. The bible is very blunt on this issue and it is same reason why Apostle (ACTS1 :14-end) is reserved for men, so also is the position of Bishop as I don't understand why Paul will say a Bishop must be the husband of one wife if the man there meant a woman as a leader also except Paul was in full support of lebian marriages.

Whatever you think,this will be my last contribution to this topic (titus 3:8-11)

@KDK,

Once again, I thank you for your concerns; but I really don't understand how very easy it is for you guys to jump to conclusions without first having spent time looking at issues objectively before you make any assuming responses?

Did you care to go through my posts on this subject? Have you found anything therein that you suppose you could help me point out from the WORD of God as not what it teaches?

If you could take the time to walk me through the Bible and that alone show me where I had it all wrong, then I would actually find something to engage you with calm reasoning - as I have always asked of those maing responses all through from assumptions.

However, let me show you a few things as to why I feel deeply that you guys are simply ignoring issues and making assumptions before you even take the time to consider what pilgrim.1 has said before.

KDK:

@Pilgrim.1,
Y the .1 sef?

Lol. . . one day soon I go yan you how far!

KDK:

Neways, just to let you know that I don't see any where I categorically stated or indirectly inferred that Kuhlman or Maria Woodworth had superior views to that of the bible. I guess u conjured that up.

Nope, I did not conjure anything. Asking me to look at what people have said on personal grounds does not have a conviction that they necessarily are conveying the thoughts of Scripture thereto. What little I know of Katherine Kuhlman would not suddenly leap above the integrity of God's WORD, where you fail to point out the issues that you may not agree with in my discussions.

KDK:

If you weren't sure you should simply have asked me why I want you to read their biographies.

Perhaps you may help us post the same and help us clear the air as to what we have yet failed to see in her biography that we haven't touched upon already. I ask humbly.

@KDK,

KDK:

Since you didn't ask and even though I indorectly told you, I will state it clearly, I wanted you to read their biographies so that you will know that they cede the ground that there are certain positions in the church not meant for women. Maria was the fore runner of women mounting the pulpit. Kuhlman was the most recent and the most powerful in modern history. Infact, Benny Hynn tailor her pattern as stated in some of his books.

Okay. Perhaps that is the point you had been trying to call attention to that I seem to have been deaf to? Please, reconsider again what I stated: have YOU taken the time to read through my rejoinders and see if I said anything completely OPPOSITE to what you were trying so hard to say above?

If that was the case, then please read carefully the following entries I made much earlier:

#1.

Among those who are in LEADERSHIP, there are:

* TEACHERS - and women are not called to take on this role in Church settings
* ELDERS - men and women are TOGETHER called to fulfill this role
* HELPS and GOVERNMENT - fulfilling various roles TOGETHER in teamwork

(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-61492.384.html#msg1596707)


#2.

The only restrictions were about TEACHING in the Church - not about other concerns of LEADERSHIP in the Body of Christ! That is why I took time to funnel them sizeably into three (3) outlines for easier reading, even though I had discussed them extensively before.

(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-61492.416.html#msg1614154)


#3.

* Men are TEACHERS of the whole Church when gathered
- and this is so as concerned with doctrinal matters for
the life of the Church (1 Cor. 14:34-35)

* Women are "TEACHERS of good things" (Tit. 2:3-5)
- and this is in view of domestic matters that build healthy
homes and families among the saints when women (wives)
absolutely need such training.

* Together, both men and women are called to leadership
in practical care in administrative and fellowship matters
which promote the life and ministry of the Body of Christ
(1 Cor. 12:28 - HELPS, GOVERNMENTS)

(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-61492.384.html#msg1605724)


Please, KDK: Is there something you in the above that I have not clarified already?