well well well

melesky:

[i]PLEASE CAN I GET A WITNESS IN THE HOUSE CONCERNING PASTOR E.A. ADEBOYE AND BISHOP DAVID OYEDEP[/i]O


I am a member of the RCCG, we are not even given the chance to worship the GO, because he even makes it clear when we go to camp that he to is there to seek the face of GOD! so i dont think anyone will worship him when he to tells u there someone we all came to meet.

HEAR!HEAR!! I WONDER HOW I EVEN WANT TO WORSHIP HIM WHEN THE MAN HIMSELF CLAIMS TO BE HELPLESS AND NEED HELP HIMSELF! HOW WILL YOU WORSHIP A HELPLESS MAN?

God is one.we are however bombarded daily with different version of christianity that a lot of people are confused.most churches claim superiority and many a time we hear the "God is here" sermons.God is everywhere at everytime and i think the focus of churches should be on winning more people to christ.i also am not too comfortable with equating jesus to God when even jesus himself attested to the fact that there is God in heaven.many facts have been changed by history e.g the council of nicea of the catholic bishops of the day of emperor constantine promulgated the God tha father,God the son,God the holy spirit doctrine as a way of brokring peace between the two divides in the church.the same council gave rise to mary been described as the mother of God as against the God the father,mother and son initially proposed by the archbishop of rome.i believe in God but just like mahatma gandhi said "jesus was a great man but his followers damage his legacy",i think a lot is been done to promote tha pastor rather than God.thats why their pictures,with their wives always adorn handbills,billboards,handbands etc.a church is now a career,sermons have to be attractive,the music has to be bubbly,straightforward bible teachings such as,women covering their hair,no women preaching,no seperate seats for anyone,no men covering their hair etc are deliberately manipulated to suit the purpose of increasing the flock.what more can i say?

men of GOD.nawo.

I honestly appreciate this post, thanks to everyone

When Does A Man Of God Become An Idol? When did Jesus become an idol? If this question can be answered, then the answer to the first question can be known.

Men of God are never idols and true men of God don't see themselves so.

If you don't know where to draw the line, give them the same respect u give to ur father.

Matt 23: 6-10, gives an answer to how wrong is it for pple to give themselves titles (i.e  father, reverend, pastors etc) in the house of GOD
Becos there is only one teacher, pickup yur bible and read.

Majority of us just believe watever dis so called men of God say without questioning or researching ourselves "my pastor says"

proudly9ja:

To be fair to some Pastors, it is we the members of congregation who turn them to idols. It was same in d Bible. Many worshipped Christ and d disciples. Its a normal human response to people who do things we can't fathom. Some even equate oyibo man.

Truth is, I've heard many pastors preach against it bt how many people can u control wat they say and do outside church? In d end on judgement day, dere will be no excuse of it was my pastor that led me to worship him, to each his own. Do what u think n believe is right

True talk!
That said though, I don't support that what some billionaire play-boys AKA pastors do these days but lets face it, its cos the congregation lets them. How will YOU contribute to make someone a bloody Saudi-Prince and then defend him at every controversy (and God knows those guys have them). I think it is the absolute authority that is granted those preachers that's causes them to falter. Simply speaking, Nigerians should stop doing all that was listed by Wetu and Fesse, and we might just find that spiritual nirvana that we so crave!
Also what's the obsession with all these self-help books that only help the pastors themselves. I DETEST the BLW ferocious advertisements each time they come on air. Buy this book, it show you how to brush in a heavenly way, buy that C.D. it will inform you on how to not have you prayers diverted to voice mail! Absurd!!!

This is in response to some statements made in an earlier thread by[b] lastpage and Delafruita [/b], who were having a problem with Jesus = GOD.

I have good news for you, Jesus Christ is GOD the SON and therefore is indeed GOD.

Please take your time to slowly read and digest the supporting biblical verses below.

How I wish so called Christians will take time to read their bibles and not follow third hand, filtered down false doctrines and misguided statements.


Please the long list of verses referring to Jesus as GOD below



New Testament


"But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?" Hebrews 1 :8-13

Matthew 1:23-"Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

John 1:1-3, 14-"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made,  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

John 1:18-"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

John 20:27-28-"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

Romans 9:5-", Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen" (NKJV).

Philippians 2:5-8-"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

Colossians 1:15-16-"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, "


Colossians 2:8-10-"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power."

1 Timothy 1:16-17-"Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen."

1 Timothy 2:3-4-"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

1 Timothy 3:16-"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

1 Timothy 6:14-16-", the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

Titus 1:3-"But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour."

Titus 2:10-", showing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things."

Titus 2:13-"Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" (NKJV).

Hebrews 1:1-3-"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high."

Hebrews 1:8-"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

Jude 25-"To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and for ever. Amen."

Jesus Christ Clearly Taught His Own Divinity

Revelation 21:6-7-"And he [Jesus Christ] said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."

John 8:57-59-"Then the Jews said to Him, 'You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?' Jesus said to them, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.' Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, " (NKJV).

John 5:17-26-"But Jesus answered them, 'My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.' Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. Then Jesus answered and said to them,,  'For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will,  For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself'" (NKJV).

John 10:28-39-"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them,,  If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand."

Mark 2:5-11-"When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?,  [Jesus] said unto them, But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house" (cf. Lk. 5:20-24).



Old Testament

[color=#990000]Isaiah 7:14-"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel" (Immanuel literally means "God with us".

Isaiah 9:6-"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, "

Jeremiah 23:5-6-"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS." Christ's name in Hebrew is YHWH Tsidkenu, Jehovah Our Righteousness.

Micah 5:2-"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." Christ has always existed because He is not a created being; He is God Almighty who has existed from everlasting.

Malachi 3:1-2-"Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap." God's temple is Christ's temple. Christ comes as an all-powerful judge.

Psalm 45:1, 6-7-"I speak of the things which I have made touching the king,  Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee, " The Hebrew word translated "anointed" is the verb form of the noun "Messiah."

Psalm 110:1-3-"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, " The LORD (Jehovah) will subdue all Christ's enemies. Yet Christ's rod and Christ's power will subdue all enemies. Christ's rule and power are clearly equal to God's. See Psalm 2 where a similar theme is discussed: "Serve the LORD [Jehovah] with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, " (vv. 11-12). Note how "the Son" is set poetically in parallel with "Jehovah."
[/color]
Let this put to rest the heresies been propagated on Nairaland that Jesus is not GOD.

[size=15pt]Jesus Christ is GOD the SON.[/size][/size]

^^^

Men are gullible and their appetite for miracle is enslaving them to these wild wolf called pastor. God save our souls.

when the members starts treating him as an idol. especially the xtians who seeks nor know not the truth.

ALADE4J2:

I don't think there is anything wrong in calling your pastor "daddy" or :our father in the Lord". I do agree that there is really a very thin line between respecting and worship men of God. After all, God says in the Bible that we should believe in His prophets so that we will prosper.
Not all the so called men of God are real, but they few ones out there deserves our respect (not worship: God says my glory shall no man share). You shall no them by their fruit.

beula2009:

when the members starts treating him as an idol. especially the xtians who seeks nor know not the truth.

The bible is clear on the honour bestowed on men of God . Some who may not understand that aspect of the bible call it idolatory. But we shouldn't look at the church by personal opinion. The fact that you submit to a minister as a father in the lord does not mean he has taken the place of God.God word itself says to submit to them.

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

But when people put their hope in a man of God and would not study scriptures for themselves Or can't pray or develop a relationship with Gods spirit just because they have a G.O. Praying for them for everything. That is idolatry . That is not submission but ignorance.

@Joagbaje-topic- WHEN DOES A MAN OF GOD BECOME AN IDOL? in other word being worship as god. when his members starts treating him as one. is good to respect not worship as some who even fear their pastor more than God. e.g the head of my church passed an instruction asking all members to quit a particular social site for another, so I should follow becos MY PASTOR SAID SO? OR Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.SAID SO?
IS ALL ABT KNOWING THE TRUTH ABT THE WORD OF GOD
Eph 4:14  That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive

@frosbel.thank you for the careful listing of those verses.but you deliberately left out some that do not support your point.for example when stephen was been stoned and looked up to heaven,he saw jesus at the right side of GOD,not jesus sitting on the throne as God.in many istances,jesus himself made clear that there was God in heaven.never did he call himself God.in the garden of gethsemane,he prayed to GOD not to himself.the truth is jesus acknowledeged that he was sent by GOD which was why he told peter hhe had prayed for him to be forggiven of his denial.he said he was ascending to heaven to be at the side of the FATHER=GOD.there are so many instances like the devil tempting him by saying je should jump and assuring him that the angels have been given charge over him(by who!)GOD of course.i truly believe emperor constantine is the largest contributor to the confusion in cristianity by cnverting a pagan ceremony to be callled christmas and convening the bishops of his time to the council in nicea where the trinity doctrine was promulgated.it would interest you to know that it was initially God the father,God the mother,God the sone but this was rejected by majority of the bishops who felt mary was not a co-mediatrix with jesus but agreed that she could be accorded the respect that comes with the title of mother of God.thus it became God the father,son and holy spirit with mary as mother of God.try to google the council of nicea fore more details on this important incident in history.it occured sometime between the 12th and 13th century

Bcus alot of mumus they follow them.

@ POSTER

Tell that to the RCCG Memebers. Daddy GO this Daddy that. The same Daddy GO that is up to this day embezzling church funds.

i begin 2 wonder dis days how some people dont actualy know what they are doin or i will rather say what they want,2 the extent that some women seem 2 place more honour and respect on their so called MAN OF GOD than their husband.DADDY! thats the name they call them,anyway i dnt blame those people, i blame the so called MAN OF GOD that allow people 2 pour curse on them or may be they enjoy it too.pastor oh pastor.

Hahaha Nigeria and religion, yeye people

Ironically the real victims in this case are the Pastors, Revrends, GOs, etc who are being deified and idolised. Many of them set out innocently to do the work of God but are suck into the quick sand of men praise and adulations and helplessly can not get out again. Let see how Jesus responds to such in John 6:14-15 "Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said; This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world. When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force , to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain alone".

Also Paul in Acts 14:11-19 face similar situation and confronted likewise. The truth is that the same people who frown at others idolising a Pastor will either do the same for thier favourite Pastor or outrightly show rudeness and disrespect for other Pastors.(another extreme end) While I was in Higher institution, i was made the President of one of the biggest christian student union on campus and i must confess, so many unforeseen "problems" arose for me like my fellow brothers would want to do my laundry for me, I mean even guys in the same level with me. The ladies or shall i say sisters case is another kettle of fish all together, nothing is too much for them to do -from bringing food in coolers (Cooler ministry  ) to even tidying my room, when yours sincerely is not married or dating any one of them. meanwhile the only crime i committed to warrant this idolising is am priviledge enough to be made a President. Lest I forget, people stop calling my name and prefer to use fanciful titles instead, even some of my lecturers joined in the use of fanciful titles to address me rather than my first name!
If all this can happen in a school campus, then you can imagine the kind of pressure these pastors and GOs are exposed to on a daily basis but unlike Jesus and Apostle Paul, they got sucked in and find it difficult to extricate themselves. they suddenly got that feeling that they are faultless, better than every other person and cannot entertain criticism again no matter how constructive they may be. The pulpit  then become a spotlight where they; the superstar come to perform  and show off rather than the place of spiritual service to our God. A real and true Christian will know that the veil had been broken and no pastor or Revrend hold the key to appproaching God hence none is worthy of idolising. Jesus only is our mediator and advocate. Let me proffer some tips on how to avoid this cancer in the body of Christ.

1. Faith should be in Christ and not in the Pastors, hence do not take every thing your pastor say hook line and sinker, rather judge it in the light of the scripture
2. Address your Pastor using thier name i.e pastor Ade and once in a while use brother Ade, they may be shocked but you are helping them to be in touch with reality and not get carried away, afterall we are brethen in Christ.
3. Maintain a healthy distance from them and do not turn them to God where you heap all your problems afterall they are human like you and have their own challenges also.
4. Never be intimidated to disagree with them openly or otherwise when they say or do something you believe is wrong by scripture standard
5. Never imitate them or their lifestyles. be yourself and the best imitatator of Christ you can be.

SeanT21:

Some man of God think they are God.

Some people tend to worship their pastor too much. They forget that he's just a human being.

'', Ye are gods all of you children of the most high  but ye shall die like men, ''  psalm 82: 6-7
'' , ye are gods'' john 10:34b
'', I have set you as a god over pharoah, and Aaron your prophet, ''
'', and thou shalt be to him instead of a God, '' Exodus 4:16b
'', In the image of God created He them , male and female, ''Gen 1:25 - 26

I am a god! not to talk of my Bishop.

Life is all about choices
Everyman should study the word of God for himself, if not, how will he know if idolatery is stepping into his life
Not just idolizing the word of God but other things as well

Delafruita:

@frosbel.thank you for the careful listing of those verses.but you deliberately left out some that do not support your point.for example when stephen was been stoned and looked up to heaven,he saw jesus at the right side of GOD,not jesus sitting on the throne as God.in many istances,jesus himself made clear that there was God in heaven.never did he call himself God.in the garden of gethsemane,he prayed to GOD not to himself.the truth is jesus acknowledeged that he was sent by GOD which was why he told peter hhe had prayed for him to be forggiven of his denial.he said he was ascending to heaven to be at the side of the FATHER=GOD.there are so many instances like the devil tempting him by saying je should jump and assuring him that the angels have been given charge over him(by who!)GOD of course.i truly believe emperor constantine is the largest contributor to the confusion in cristianity by cnverting a pagan ceremony to be callled christmas and convening the bishops of his time to the council in nicea where the trinity doctrine was promulgated.it would interest you to know that it was initially God the father,God the mother,God the sone but this was rejected by majority of the bishops who felt mary was not a co-mediatrix with jesus but agreed that she could be accorded the respect that comes with the title of mother of God.thus it became God the father,son and holy spirit with mary as mother of God.try to google the council of nicea fore more details on this important incident in history.it occured sometime between the 12th and 13th century

PHIL 101 is not Biblical doctrine neither is HIS 101 nor REG 101 or what ever you studied in school. Pls don't  also mix up Christianity with Islam. Talk about your religion. The Lord Jesus is God. Confirmation ; '' is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased. The son of a God is a God, the same well the son of a dog is a dog and the son of satan is satan.

yotube adds another feature for easy content creation, full storyhttp://techblogng..com/2011/03/youtube-adds-animation-tools-for-easier.html

Here are the 4 W's satan uses as tools in bringing down "Men of God":

[list]
[li]Wine[/li]
[/list]

[list]
[li]Women[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Wealth[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Worship[/li]
[/list]

The moment a "Man of God" begins to accept worship from his congregation instead of giving it to God is the time he begins to fall like Herod.  They have to learn from the example Jesus Christ laid down.  Even though Jesus was in the form of God He did not consider it robbery to be equal with God but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant and coming in the likeness of men. (Philippians 2:5-7).

@beula2009

beula2009:

@Joagbaje
WHEN DOES A MAN OF GOD BECOME AN IDOL? in other word being worship as god. when his members starts treating him as one

You need to define this treatment The light of the Word of God. What treatment ?

is good to respect not worship as some who even fear their pastor more than God. e.g the head of my church passed an instruction asking all members to quit a particular social site for another, so I should follow becos MY PASTOR SAID SO?

That's a simple common sense. What has it got to do with idolising a man. A pastor has a role of a guidian in the life of members. He has the responsibility to guide them into wise descisions. if that's what you call idolising , you should read your bible well. Have you seen strong instructions paul gave?

There are christians who put rubbish on their face book. Things that don't edify. A pastor can guide them aright to use Facebook to preach the gospel rather. Will you call that idolising? It's leadership.

@frosbel

This is in response to some statements made in an earlier thread by lastpage and Delafruita , who were having a problem with Jesus = GOD.

I have good news for you, Jesus Christ is GOD the SON and therefore is indeed GOD.

Please take your time to slowly read and digest the supporting biblical verses below.

How I wish so called Christians will take time to read their bibles and not follow third hand, filtered down false doctrines and misguided statements.


Please the long list of verses referring to Jesus as GOD below

My dear, you have COMPLETELY MISSED IT! The problem l think you have is that "you read the Bible in isolation, focusing on just a verse and not "walking back and forward, after that verse! Most of those verses dont even support that claim!
In fact, when l went through the Bible to ascertain your "first Bible quote", it was evident that even you did not read your Bible!
E.g: Hebrews 1:8-13 which you quoted. Lets look at Verse 9 (just after the Verse 8!) says: "You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; Therefore [color=#770077]GOD your God, has set you above your companions,,,,,"[/color]
Question is: Who is "the GOD" that was talking to Jesus here?
Or was it Jesus calling himself "the God of himself"?
For clarity, it was GOD the father, talking to his "SON" Jesus and telling him that HE is Jesus's GOD!
Can you understand the flow of this?

Even if you go back to the same Chapter 1 of the same Hebrew that you quoted;
Hebrew 1:1-2; In the past GOD spoke to our forefathers,,,,(Vs.2) In the last days [b]HE[/b] has spoken to us through His SON
So, God the father now speaks to us through his SON! Or do you still think it should read "God now speaks to us through his GOD (himself)? Does not make sense at all!

Verse 3: The son is the radiance of GOD's glory,,,,,,,after he had provided purification (death on the cross) for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the majesty in heaven: Does this not show that these two are separate "physical entities"? if Jesus was God, can we then say "Jesus sat down at Jesus right hand in heaven"?
And another verse in the Bible also corroborates this when God said "Sit at my right hand until l make all your enemies your foot stool.

John 1:1- In the begining, was the word, the word was with God and the word was a God. He was with God in the begining.
Whether the purveyors of "trinity" tried to remove that "a" in that Bible verse, just to make it sound like "Jesus was God" and therefore make it sound like he was equal and same with his father, will not be contested here (we wont have the time) but one thing is clear: It does not jell with the overall Biblical track of events.
I will not bore anyone with semantics but let me ask, who was the Bible referring to as "the word"? The Bible says Jesus was the "word of God" and through him (his spoken word) all things are made. thus, Jesus is the WORD.

if that is clear and acceptable, can we then inject and replace "Jesus", with "the word" in that John 1:1 Bible verse and see how it reads? "In the begining was "Jesus", Jesus was with God and Jesus was a God. Jesus was with God in the begining!
Does the above make sense?
Assuming" Jesus was God", if we replace "God" with "Jesus" in that verse and see how it reads: In the begining was God, and God was with God and God was a God. God was with God in the begining.

Now,l dont want to derail this thread but l will just list a few places in the Bible where Jesus himself concurred that he was NOT GOD and not EQUAL to God! by regularly referring to God as his FATHER

1.)Philipians 2:6 - Who (Jesus) being in the very nature of God, DID NOT consider EQUALITY with God something to be grasped. Verse 9: "Therefore God (his father) exalted him to the highest position and gave him the name that is above every other name,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Verse 11: To the glory of God the FATHER

2.) 1Corinthians 15: 24-28 - ,,,,,Then the end will come when he (Jesus) hands over the kingdom to God the FATHER after he has destroyed all dominion,,,,,,,,
Verse 27: ,,,,,,,now when it says everything has been put under him (Jesus), it is clear that this does not include GOD himself who put everything under CHRIST!

Verse 28: When he has done this, then the SON himself (Jesus) would be made subject to him (God) who put everything under him so that God (Father) may be glorified.
Jesus cant certainly be "subject to himself"? i.e. if he was God the father!

3.) Before his death, Jesus prays for himself.
John 17: 3-5 - "Now this is eternal life that they may know YOU, the only true GOD and Jesus Christ who YOU have sent. (Can Jesus be talking to himself here? NO)
Vs. 4-5: I have brought YOU glory here on earth by completing the work YOU gave me to do and now FATHER, glorify me in your presence (cc: Hebrews 1:9) with the glory l had with YOU before the world began (cc: Relate this part to John1:1)
Again,lets ask ourselves:who was Jesus referring to as YOU? God, his father of course!

I will not even bore anyone with more verses from the Bible where Jesus made a very clear distinction between himself and God and he thereafter referred to God as His FATHER. They are just too numerous.

TO say Jesus is same as God, his father not only goes against all grammatical construct as used in the Bible, it simply negates the whole idea of Christianity whereby God seeks to reconcile man back to himself (after the fall of "the perfect man" in the garden of Eden) by sending another "perfect being" to provide an "equal and exact measure" of recompense., His only begotten SON

Like some have opined, this idea of "3-in-1" being equal one is atheistic and has its origins in paganism!
If Jesus, who has the 'very nature of God' did not consider himself equal to God, where else would such idea come from if not from pagan Rome?

Cheers, Lastpage.

BTW: If God created us in his image and said "ye are gods" thus that make us "God himself"?
How can someone say "image and original" are the same?
I am even surprised some "Pastor" will come here to preach this mis-information!

The day I gave up on Nigerian churches, was the day I asked to speak with my pastor about a pressing issue and I was asked if i pay my tithe regularly. I am yet to get over the shock . I think the mistake pastor Chris made was turning his flourishing church into family business. Just because you are called by God does not mean your brothers, in-laws and others have the same gift you were given. Its a shame what Christ Embassy has turned into. And really sad that men blessed with so much gift of preaching the word of God will let material gain take over everything else. As for worshipping of pastors, this is becoming a very troublling trend in Nigerian and this is why so much attrocities happen in church and no one can talk about it. If you do, you become an enemy of the church. its a vicious circle that will go on and on unless these issues are addressed. The way church officials and members fall over themselves to worship these pastors is a sin itself and they have to be held responsible too.