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Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. - Religion - Nairaland

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Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by Donspicey: 9:24am On Feb 06, 2021
Revelation 12:1-17 [b]And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ[/b].



Who is the Woman??


Who is the Child?



And what later happened to the Child?
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by Donspicey: 9:31am On Feb 06, 2021
Nuttella.......

WiseandTrue....


Donnie...


jesusjnr2020...


Racoon.....


enilove...

1 Like

Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by Racoon(m): 10:38am On Feb 06, 2021
My dear the book of Revelation(Escatology) is a mystery of events foreseen far ahead in time to come.The woman in question in Revelation 12 has been interpreted by some theologians as a divine being that give birth to the saviour-Jesus Christ.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. -Revelation 12:11

Given the afore verse, the believers can only overcome through (1)blood of Jesus, then (2)name of Jesus(Acts 4:12, Philippians 2:10‭-‬11- "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father....")

And (3)word of Jesus- "word of their testimony..." Jesus is the word of God the trinity and the basis of man's eternal salvation.

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Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by Donspicey: 10:44am On Feb 06, 2021
Racoon:
My dear the book of Revelation(Escatology) is a mystery of events foreseen far ahead in time to come.The woman in question in Revelation 12 has been interpreted by some theologians as a divine being that give birth to the saviour-Jesus Christ.


Given the afore verse, the believers can only overcome through (1)blood of Jesus, then (2)name of Jesus(Acts 4:12, Philippians 2:10‭-‬11- "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father....")

And (3)word of Jesus- "word of their testimony..." Jesus is the word of God the trinity and the basis of man's eternal salvation.


You mean The woman is Holy mary

But it was Still Jesus christ that gave John the Revelations...How come

1 Like

Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by MaxInDHouse(m): 10:54am On Feb 06, 2021
I'm Maximus one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES would you mind if i share what i know regarding the chapter with you? smiley

1 Like

Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by Wiseandtrue(f): 10:55am On Feb 06, 2021
Donspicey:
Revelation 12:1-17 [b]And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ[/b].



Who is the Woman??


Who is the Child?



And what later happened to the Child?
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by DappaD: 10:59am On Feb 06, 2021
Donspicey:


You mean The woman is Holy mary
But it was Still Jesus christ that gave John the Revelations...How come

All what you’re seeing in the book of Revelations had never happened before John’s era because as Revelation 1:10 put it, those events were to take place in the “Lord’s day”, which from John’s perspective was sometime in the future so the woman cannot possibly be Mary.

1 Like

Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by Ihedinobi3: 12:33pm On Feb 06, 2021
Donspicey:
Revelation 12:1-17 [b]And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ[/b].



Who is the Woman??


Who is the Child?



And what later happened to the Child?

Hi there.

As verses 1 and 3 both say, the woman and the dragon are metaphors for something else. It is important to note that unless Revelation (and indeed any other part of the Bible) says that something is a sign, we would be most unwise to assume that it is not being literal. Your questions show that you recognize that these are signs that need interpretation, good for you.

1. The woman is Israel, just as the 12 stars show. Compare Genesis 37:9-10. The 12 stars stand for the 12 tribes of Israel.

2. The child is the Lord Jesus Christ. Many Bible passages here in Revelation and all over the Bible including Psalm 2, Isaiah 7, and Isaiah 9 attest to this.

3. As verse 5 says and as the rest of the Bible bears witness, the Lord Jesus will return to destroy Satan's kingdom ruling over the earth currently and take rulership over the whole world.

4 Likes

Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by Donspicey: 12:44pm On Feb 06, 2021
MaxInDHouse:
I'm Maximus one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES would you mind if i share what i know regarding the chapter with you? smiley

Your contribution will be highly appreciated sir...
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by Donspicey: 12:48pm On Feb 06, 2021
Ihedinobi3:


Hi there.

As verses 1 and 3 both say, the woman and the dragon are metaphors for something else. It is important to note that unless Revelation (and indeed any other part of the Bible) says that something is a sign, we would be most unwise to assume that it is not being literal. Your questions show that you recognize that these are signs that need interpretation, good for you.

1. The woman is Israel, just as the 12 stars show. Compare Genesis 37:9-10. The 12 stars stand for the 12 tribes of Israel.

2. The child is the Lord Jesus Christ. Many Bible passages here in Revelation and all over the Bible including Psalm 2, Isaiah 7, and Isaiah 9 attest to this.

3. As verse 5 says and as the rest of the Bible bears witness, the Lord Jesus will return to destroy Satan's kingdom ruling over the earth currently and take rulership over the whole world.


I was thinking that Jesus coming to take over rulership will be after Rapture and the great tribulations.....
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by Donspicey: 12:51pm On Feb 06, 2021
DappaD:


All what you’re seeing in the book of Revelations had never happened before John’s era because as Revelation 1:10 put it, those events were to take place in the “Lord’s day”, which from John’s perspective was sometime in the future so the woman cannot possibly be Mary.


Samething i have been thinking but Ihedinobi3 post is kind of contrary to my thoughts....
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by livingchrist: 12:53pm On Feb 06, 2021
Donspicey:
Revelation 12:1-17 [b]And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ[/b].



Who is the Woman??


Who is the Child?



And what later happened to the Child?

The woman is Israel
Isaiah 66:7-8 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

The 12 stars, sun and moon represent the 12 tribes of israel that originated from jacob who is the sun, and Rachel the moon.

Genesis 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

The man child is the messiah,

Micah 5:2
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Matthew 2:1
Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

The dragon is the devil.

2 Likes

Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by jesusjnr2020(m): 12:56pm On Feb 06, 2021
From the entails of this revelation, it shows that the book was not just a revelation or foretelling of things to come but also the revelation of mysteries of the kingdom of God which Jesus said was given to His disciples.

For the revelation concerning Satan being cast down from heaven was one which had already taken place prior to the coming of Jesus according to this saying of His:

Luke 10:18
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Also that Satan was called the (old) serpent, shows that the fall happen before the beginning when God made man in His own image.

Once you've been able to realize that, everything else should begin to fall into place, as the male child being Jesus and the woman being His mother and so on. Do not take everything there literally though because some are illustrative. You know that Satan sought to kill Jesus after He was born, hence the mother and child had to flee to Egypt for a while.

And so on...

God bless.

Donspicey:
Revelation 12:1-17 [b]And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ[/b].



Who is the Woman??


Who is the Child?



And what later happened to the Child?
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by Donspicey: 1:03pm On Feb 06, 2021
livingchrist:


The woman is Israel
Isaiah 66:7-8 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

The 12 stars, sun and moon represent the 12 tribes of israel that originated from jacob who is the sun, and Rachel the moon.

Genesis 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

The man child is the messiah,

Micah 5:2
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Matthew 2:1
Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

The dragon is the devil.



Meaning the book of Revelation tells about what happened before Jesus came to die for Humanity


Cos i was thinking that Jesus gave John the Revelation after HE Ascended to Heaven...

1 Like

Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by DappaD: 1:07pm On Feb 06, 2021
Donspicey:

Samething i have been thinking but ... post is kind of contrary to my thoughts....


Genesis 3:15 and Galatians 4:26 can help us understand who this “woman” truly is.
Paul speaks of “Jerusalem above” in the latter verse as the “mother” of him and other anointed/chosen Christians.
Compare with Romans 8:14-17 & Galatians 3:26-29

The birth of the “male child” too is closely related to Jesus Christ but in another sense of becoming a King because Revelation 12:5 says that he is to shepherd the nations with an iron rod but it’s not only Jesus who will do this. A few number who go to heaven will also be chosen to “shepherd the nations” with an iron rod as well.
Revelation 2:26-27

This subject is somewhat complex to grasp because there are a number of things about Genesis 3:15 that you must understand first.
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by DappaD: 1:13pm On Feb 06, 2021
Donspicey:



Meaning the book of Revelation tells about what happened before Jesus came to die for Humanity


Cos i was thinking that Jesus gave John the Revelation after HE Ascended to Heaven...


Like I earlier told you, all what is recorded in the book of Revelation were future events that had not yet taken place in John’s day. Revelation 1:10

When Jesus came to the earth the first time, he gave his life for our sins as the perfect Lamb[John 2:19] and was resurrected to sit at God’s right hand in heaven first.
Psalm 110:1, Acts 2:34-35

I’m here to tell you that Psalm 110:2 foreshadowed Revelation 6:2 & 12:7-9 because that was when Jesus began ruling and subduing his enemies. Then ousted Satan from heaven to be confined to the earth and that’s why he got furious and things have gotten worse on earth. Revelation 6:4-8, 12:9-12
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by Donspicey: 1:13pm On Feb 06, 2021
jesusjnr2020:
From the entails of this revelation, it shows that the book was not just a revelation or foretelling of things to come but also the revelation of mysteries of the kingdom of God which Jesus said was given to His disciples.

For the revelation concerning Satan being cast down from heaven was one which had already taken place prior to the coming of Jesus according to this saying of His:

Luke 10:18
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Also that Satan was called the (old) serpent, shows that the fall happen before the beginning when God made man in His own image.

Once you've been able to realize that, everything else should begin to fall into place, as the male child being Jesus and the woman being His mother and so on. Do not take everything there literally though because some are illustrative. You know that Satan sought to kill Jesus after He was born, hence the mother and child had to flee to Egypt for a while.

And so on...

God bless.



I appreciate ur input.......


What actually confused me was Jesus Himself Giving John the Revelations on that passage.....


That was why i asked what later happened to the child...


That is to say Nobody is in Heaven presently except God,Jesus,Holy Spirit,Angels and the Twenty Four Elders...


Until after the second coming of Jesus Christ....
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by Donspicey: 1:26pm On Feb 06, 2021
DappaD:



Genesis 3:15 and Galatians 4:26 can help us understand who this “woman” truly is.
Paul speaks of “Jerusalem above” in the latter verse as the “mother” of him and other anointed/chosen Christians.
Compare with Romans 8:14-17 & Galatians 3:26-29

The birth of the “male child” too is closely related to Jesus Christ but in another sense of becoming a King because Revelation 12:5 says that he is to shepherd the nations with an iron rod but it’s not only Jesus who will do this. A few number who go to heaven will also be chosen to “shepherd the nations” with an iron rod as well.
Revelation 2:26-27

This subject is somewhat complex to grasp because there are a number of things about Genesis 3:15 that you must understand first.


Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

So The Book of Revelation is a compilation of past,present and future events.....
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by DappaD: 1:28pm On Feb 06, 2021
Donspicey:


Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
So The Book of Revelation is a compilation of past,present and future events.....


No. Just the future events that had not happened before John saw those visions and recorded them. That’s why I’m placing emphasis on Revelation 1:10.
I said Genesis 3:15 was going to help us understand who that “woman” was because it was the first prophecy stated in the Bible and the “woman” in that verse wasn’t talking about Eve.
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by ebhaleleme51490: 1:30pm On Feb 06, 2021
:I'm Maximus one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES would you mind if i share what i know regarding the chapter with you? Your contribution will be highly appreciated sir...
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by Ihedinobi3: 1:36pm On Feb 06, 2021
Donspicey:



I was thinking that Jesus coming to take over rulership will be after Rapture and the great tribulations.....

I don't know any part of the Bible that teaches anything about a rapture. Of course, the Latin translation of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 uses the word from which "rapture" is derived to translate the Greek for "caught up," but that does not really mean that there will be any stealing away of human beings from the earth by the Lord. It only means that at the Resurrection, all the saints will assemble in the air with the Lord before He begins His vengeance on the armies destroying Israel at the time of His Return.

Everything I have ever read in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation speaks to the fact that the Lord Jesus will return at the end of the seven-year Tribulation (the second 3.5-year half of which is called the Great Tribulation) to resurrect the Church. That is what I believe and teach.

It is at that Return and after He has resurrected all believers, that is, given them new glorious and eternal material bodies to live in with Him forever that He will enter into battle against the Antichrist and all the armies of the earth that will be at Jerusalem at that time (Matthew 24:29-31; Zechariah 13:7-14:21, cf. Ezekiel 5:1-4).

Eschatology is a very large subject. In fact, it uses and requires a solid understanding of all the teachings of the Bible, so getting into it can be pretty challenging for both of us, not to mention the various erroneous and emotionally charged interpretations abroad that would probably continue to require address just to get them out of the way.

Suffice to say that the war between Satan and God that led to the destruction of the first perfect universe and the creation and fall of man will finally enter its last legs in the Tribulation. Since being a believer makes any human being a member of God's Army on earth, it is really ridiculous to think that we will not be here to fight at that time. We will be. After the intense seven-year battle that will result in the apostasy of a full third of the Church and the martyrdom of another third, the Lord Jesus will return to resurrect all those who believed from Adam and Eve until the last one to believe just before His Return. Then He will destroy the Antichrist, his armies, and all those who took the mark of the Beast.

There will be very few human beings left alive (compared to the billions living now) after the war of Armageddon (an inspired puzzle that refers to Jerusalem).

The Lord Jesus will then renew the earth. For example, the Dead Sea will be made fresh again. The mountain on which Jerusalem stands will be elevated to be the highest mountain on earth. Deserts will become lush forests. Animals will cease to be wild and dangerous. Even natural carnivores like lions will feed on plants. The very seasons will change, reverting to the time before the Flood when there was no cold winter or hot summer. There will be no more weapons and standing armies on earth. Nations and languages will continue to exist, of course, but now they will operate in a more harmonious and more peaceful manner. All disputes between nations will be settled by the Lord Jesus Himself.

It will be the most prosperous, most beautiful time that humans have ever had on earth, not counting the Garden of Eden before Adam and Eve sinned. The spiritual kingdom ruling over the world at that time will be the Kingdom of Heaven headed by Jesus Christ and administered in varying degrees and various capacities by the resurrected saints of the ages before that time. That is, after the Church has been resurrected and, as one of the seven Thunder Judgments (Revelation 10:3-4; not the right medium here to explicate these judgments) to be administered, they have been evaluated according to their works of faith, each one will be given their position in Jesus's worldwide government in the Millennium with some earning a much higher rank than others.

It is the saints then who will rule over the earth with the Lord Jesus, not Satan and his demons anymore.

There will still be unbelievers in those thousand years, and some of them will break the law, but the punishment for disobedience will be so severe (death, in fact) that very few indeed will dare to test the Lord Jesus like that. If a nation refuses to send delegates to the annual assemblies at Jerusalem, for example, they will suffer droughts until they repent (Zechariah 14:16-19). Suffice to say that it will be as perfect a world as it can get with human beings who still have a sinful nature living in it. There will be very few deaths too (Isaiah 65:20). Many of those who start the Millennium will actually live through it, just as it once was before the Flood, only better.

At the end of this time, Satan will be released from the Abyss to test humanity again. In short order, he will foment a rebellion against the perfect government of Jesus Christ. That will result in the destruction of this universe. Then there will be a final Judgment of Millennial believers and then of all unbelievers from Cain until the last unbeliever to die.

After that Judgment, the Lord Jesus will create a new Universe to which the Father will return to live with all believers and elect angels forever. All unbelievers along with Satan and his fellow rebel angels, on the other hand, will be thrown into the Lake of Fire to suffer there eternally.

In short, yes, it is after the Great Tribulation that the Lord Jesus will return to rule over the whole world. But, no, there is no such thing as a rapture.
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by Donspicey: 1:37pm On Feb 06, 2021
DappaD:


No. Just the future events that had not happened before John saw those visions and recorded them. That’s why I’m placing emphasis on Revelation 1:10.
I said Genesis 3:15 was going to help us understand who that “woman” was because it was the first prophecy stated in the Bible and the “woman” in that verse wasn’t talking about Eve.


But some commenters here are reffering the woman to be Israel....


I understood every other chapters of Revelation except Rev 12.....highly complicated...
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by DappaD: 1:42pm On Feb 06, 2021
Donspicey:


But some commenters here are reffering the woman to be Israel....
I understood every other chapters of Revelation except Rev 12.....highly complicated...

Israel in what sense exactly? The fleshly nation of Israel?
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by MaxInDHouse(m): 1:44pm On Feb 06, 2021
Donspicey:

Your contribution will be highly appreciated sir...

The woman represents all the 144,000 born again Christians to become corulers with Jesus Christ in heaven. The crown you see on her head represents the twelve Apostles of Jesus who were the first and foundation stones of God's earthly organization {Revelations 21:14} after Jesus' assenssion to heaven God poured out his Holy Spirit and began selecting those that will become born again corulers with his son in heaven. None of all God's servants before then had the privilege of learning from Jesus how to be a partaker in that government {Matthew 20:20-28} so Jesus declared that all those born of women till John the Baptist can't partake in his heavenly government {Matthew 11:11-12} they're going to inherit what God has promised in the beginning everlasting life on earth! Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:29; Isaiah 65:21-23

Her child will cause a big issue but i'll say it anyway for the benefit of all those who truly want to know.
The child was born in the year 1914 when Jesus was crowned to begin ruling in heaven, in that year he drove Satan and his demons out of heaven and all these powerful spirits headed to the earth. You will notice that ever since the earth has been existing the greatest achievement in technology began right from that time, those demons possessed so many people and imparted the knowledge to invent many wonderful things speedily, they also possessed religious leaders of all kinds to perform great miraculous works {Matthew 24:4-6} they also possessed politicians and that's where our problem skyrocketed because these are rebellious angels whoever they possess will never be humbled or agree to humble themselves so most politicians wants to pitch their tent as powerful rulers and this led to the first WORLD WAR {Matthew 24:7-8} but since true followers of Christ must not take side in the political affairs of the world {John 17:16, 18:36} politicians in one place after another will start to persecute true Christians globally that was the year Jesus took away all the born again Christians who were sleeping in death {Revelations 12:14 compare to 1Thessalonians 4:16} this is what most Churchgoers are still expecting as RAPTURE but it has happened in the year 1914, the rest of the Born again Christians have been taken to heaven immediately they breath their last here on earth but Satan kept instigating the world against them! Revelations 12:17

So the child born to the woman is God's earthly part of his Organization known today as JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES Organization!

May you have PEACE! smiley

1 Like

Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by jesusjnr2020(m): 1:55pm On Feb 06, 2021
Donspicey:



I appreciate ur input.......


What actually confused me was Jesus Himself Giving John the Revelations on that passage.....


That was why i asked what later happened to the child...


That is to say Nobody is in Heaven presently except God,Jesus,Holy Spirit,Angels and the Twenty Four Elders...


Until after the second coming of Jesus Christ....
I think you're missing the point about Jesus being the One who gave John the revelation because Jesus could also reveal things past, present, and future.

Moreover He was the One that revealed what happened to Satan before the beginning.

BTW, I believe that by virtue of the death of Jesus, the door of heaven was opened to all the saints who had died but not gained entry into heaven yet. So I believe that there are saints there in heaven presently.

God bless.
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by Donspicey: 2:02pm On Feb 06, 2021
Ihedinobi3:


I don't know any part of the Bible that teaches anything about a rapture. Of course, the Latin translation of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 uses the word from which "rapture" is derived to translate the Greek for "caught up," but that does not really mean that there will be any stealing away of human beings from the earth by the Lord. It only means that at the Resurrection, all the saints will assemble in the air with the Lord before He begins His vengeance on the armies destroying Israel at the time of His Return.

Everything I have ever read in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation speaks to the fact that the Lord Jesus will return at the end of the seven-year Tribulation (the second 3.5-year half of which is called the Great Tribulation) to resurrect the Church. That is what I believe and teach.

It is at that Return and after He has resurrected all believers, that is, given them new glorious and eternal material bodies to live in with Him forever that He will enter into battle against the Antichrist and all the armies of the earth that will be at Jerusalem at that time (Matthew 24:29-31; Zechariah 13:7-14:21, cf. Ezekiel 5:1-4).

Eschatology is a very large subject. In fact, it is a summary of all the teachings of the Bible, so getting into it can be pretty challenging for both of us, not to mention the various erroneous and emotionally charged interpretations abroad that would probably continue to require address just to get them out of the way.

Suffice to say that the war between Satan and God that led to the destruction of the first perfect universe and the creation and fall of man will finally enter its last legs in the Tribulation. Since being a believer makes any human being a member of God's Army on earth, it is really ridiculous to think that we will not be here to fight. We will. After the intense seven-year battle that will result in the apostasy of a full third of the Church and the martyrdom of another third, the Lord Jesus will return to resurrect all those who believed from Adam and Eve until the last one to believe just before His Return. Then He will destroy the Antichrist, his armies, and all those who took the mark of the Beast.

There will be very few human beings left alive (compared to the billions living now) after the war of Armageddon (an inspired puzzle that refers to Jerusalem).

The Lord Jesus will then renew the earth. For example, the Dead Sea will be made fresh again. The mountain on which Jerusalem stands will be elevated to be the highest mountain on earth. Deserts will become lush forests. Animals will cease to be wild and dangerous. Even natural carnivores like lions will feed on plants. The very seasons will change, reverting to the time before the Flood when there was no cold winter or hot summer. There will be no more weapons and standing armies on earth. Nations and languages will continue to exist, of course, but now they will operate in a more harmonious and more peaceful manner. All disputes between nations will be settled by the Lord Jesus Himself.

It will be the most prosperous, most beautiful time that humans have ever had in earth, not counting the Garden of Eden before Adam and Eve sinned. The spiritual kingdom ruling over the world at that time will be the Kingdom of Heaven headed by Jesus Christ and administered in varying degrees and various capacities by the resurrected saints of the ages before that time. That is, after the Church has been resurrected and as one of the seven Thunder Judgments (Revelation 10:3-4; not the right medium here to explicate these judgments) to be administered, they will be evaluated according to their works of faith and each one will be given their position in Jesus's worldwide government in the Millennium with some earning a much higher rank than others.

It is the saints then who will rule over the earth with the Lord Jesus, not Satan and his demons anymore.

There will still be unbelievers in those thousand years, and some of them will break the law, but the punishment for disobedience will be so severe (death, in fact) that very few indeed will dare to test the Lord Jesus like that. If a nation refuses to send delegates to the annual assemblies at Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:16-19), for example, they will suffer droughts until they repent. Suffice to say that it will be as perfect a world as it can get with human beings who still have a sinful nature living in it. There will be very few deaths too (Isaiah 65:20). Many of those who start the Millennium will actually live through it, just as it once was before the Flood, only better.

At the end of this time, Satan will be released from the Abyss to test humanity again. In short order, he will foment a rebellion against the perfect government of Jesus Christ. That will result in the destruction of this universe. Then there will be a final Judgment of Millennial believers and then of all unbelievers from Cain until the last unbeliever to die.

After that Judgment, the Lord Jesus will create a new Universe to which the Father will return to live with all believers and elect angels. All unbelievers along with Satan and his fellow rebel angels, on the other hand, will be thrown into the Lake of Fire to suffer there eternally.

In short, yes, it is after the Great Tribulation that the Lord Jesus will return to rule over the whole world. But, no, there is no such thing as a rapture.


Heaves a sigh......


Very Deep.....


Who was the Great Angel in Rev 10


But the Bible said that 12,000 people will be chosen from the 12 Tribes of Israel i.e 144000 God's elect to rule with him in Heaven for ever while other believers will reign with christ here on Earth.....

Revelation 14:1-5, 12 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by Donspicey: 2:13pm On Feb 06, 2021
jesusjnr2020:
I think you're missing the point about Jesus being the One who gave John the revelation because Jesus could also reveal things past, present, and future.

Moreover He was the One that revealed what happened to Satan before the beginning.

BTW, I believe that by virtue of the death of Jesus, the door of heaven was opened to all the saints who had died but not gained entry into heaven yet. So I believe that there are saints there in heaven presently.

God bless.


So when was the Revelation given to John

Before or After the death of Jesus Christ??


And who was showing John the things that will take place??
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by Donspicey: 2:16pm On Feb 06, 2021
DappaD:

Israel in what sense exactly? The fleshly nation of Israel?

according to LivingChrist comment....
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by DappaD: 2:18pm On Feb 06, 2021
Donspicey:

according to LivingChrist comment....


That’s his own contribution. Mine’s different.
The “Israel of God” according to Galatians 6:16 is not the fleshly nation of Israel neither is it the “woman” at Revelation 12:1.
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by Donspicey: 2:28pm On Feb 06, 2021
MaxInDHouse:


The woman represents all the 144,000 born again Christians to become corulers with Jesus Christ in heaven. The crown you see on her head represents the twelve Apostles of Jesus who were the first and foundation stones of God's earthly organization {Revelations 21:14} after Jesus' assenssion to heaven God poured out his Holy Spirit and began selecting those that will become born again corulers with his son in heaven. None of all God's servants before then had the privilege of learning from Jesus how to be a partaker in that government {Matthew 20:20-28} so Jesus declared that all those born of women till John the Baptist can't partake in his heavenly government {Matthew 11:11-12} they're going to inherit what God has promised in the beginning everlasting life on earth! Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:29; Isaiah 65:21-23

Her child will cause a big issue but i'll say it anyway for the benefit of all those who truly want to know.
The child was born in the year 1914 when Jesus was crowned to begin ruling in heaven, in that year he drove Satan and his demons out of heaven and all these powerful spirits headed to the earth. You will notice that ever since the earth has been existing the greatest achievement in technology began right from that time, those demons possessed so many people and imparted the knowledge to invent many wonderful things speedily, they also possessed religious leaders of all kinds to perform great miraculous works {Matthew 24:4-6} they also possessed politicians and that's where our problem skyrocketed because these are rebellious angels whoever they possess will never be humbled or agree to humble themselves so most politicians wants to pitch their tent as powerful rulers and this led to the first WORLD WAR {Matthew 24:7-8} but since true followers of Christ must not take side in the political affairs of the world {John 17:16, 18:36} politicians in one place after another will start to persecute true Christians globally that was the year Jesus took away all the born again Christians who were sleeping in death {Revelations 12:14 compare to 1Thessalonians 4:16} this is what most Churchgoers are still expecting as RAPTURE but it has happened in the year 1914, the rest of the Born again Christians have been taken to heaven immediately they breath their last here on earth but Satan kept instigating the world against them! Revelations 12:17

So the child born to the woman is God's earthly part of his Organization known today as JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES Organization!

May you have PEACE! smiley

Amen....
Thanks alot
..

DappaD and Jesusjnr2020 what about the Bolded
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by DappaD: 2:35pm On Feb 06, 2021
Donspicey:


Amen....
Thanks alot..
DappaD and Jesusjnr2020 what about the Bolded

Concerning just the bolded right? Okay.

I’m also one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and MaxInDHouse’s statement is ambiguous to an extent.

Revelation 12:17 shows that Satan[the dragon] was persecuting the remaining of the woman’s seed here on earth[but further research still needs to be done on the woman’s identity]
The remaining of the woman’s seed has again, another connection with Genesis 3:15 and represents the anointed Christians amongst Jehovah’s Witnesses who while in flesh, have been chosen to rule alongside Jesus Christ.
Compare Galatians 3:26-29
That does not mean we’re forcing our own understanding on you.

My brother MaxInDHouse will do further research and get back to you concerning the identity of the woman and the child at Revelation 12:1-5.
I hope that will be okay?
Re: Please I Need Clarification On This Bible Passage.. by Ihedinobi3: 2:36pm On Feb 06, 2021
Ihedinobi3:


I don't know any part of the Bible that teaches anything about a rapture. Of course, the Latin translation of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 uses the word from which "rapture" is derived to translate the Greek for "caught up," but that does not really mean that there will be any stealing away of human beings from the earth by the Lord. It only means that at the Resurrection, all the saints will assemble in the air with the Lord before He begins His vengeance on the armies destroying Israel at the time of His Return.

Everything I have ever read in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation speaks to the fact that the Lord Jesus will return at the end of the seven-year Tribulation (the second 3.5-year half of which is called the Great Tribulation) to resurrect the Church. That is what I believe and teach.

It is at that Return and after He has resurrected all believers, that is, given them new glorious and eternal material bodies to live in with Him forever that He will enter into battle against the Antichrist and all the armies of the earth that will be at Jerusalem at that time (Matthew 24:29-31; Zechariah 13:7-14:21, cf. Ezekiel 5:1-4).

Eschatology is a very large subject. In fact, it uses and requires a solid understanding of all the teachings of the Bible, so getting into it can be pretty challenging for both of us, not to mention the various erroneous and emotionally charged interpretations abroad that would probably continue to require address just to get them out of the way.

Suffice to say that the war between Satan and God that led to the destruction of the first perfect universe and the creation and fall of man will finally enter its last legs in the Tribulation. Since being a believer makes any human being a member of God's Army on earth, it is really ridiculous to think that we will not be here to fight at that time. We will be. After the intense seven-year battle that will result in the apostasy of a full third of the Church and the martyrdom of another third, the Lord Jesus will return to resurrect all those who believed from Adam and Eve until the last one to believe just before His Return. Then He will destroy the Antichrist, his armies, and all those who took the mark of the Beast.

There will be very few human beings left alive (compared to the billions living now) after the war of Armageddon (an inspired puzzle that refers to Jerusalem).

The Lord Jesus will then renew the earth. For example, the Dead Sea will be made fresh again. The mountain on which Jerusalem stands will be elevated to be the highest mountain on earth. Deserts will become lush forests. Animals will cease to be wild and dangerous. Even natural carnivores like lions will feed on plants. The very seasons will change, reverting to the time before the Flood when there was no cold winter or hot summer. There will be no more weapons and standing armies on earth. Nations and languages will continue to exist, of course, but now they will operate in a more harmonious and more peaceful manner. All disputes between nations will be settled by the Lord Jesus Himself.

It will be the most prosperous, most beautiful time that humans have ever had on earth, not counting the Garden of Eden before Adam and Eve sinned. The spiritual kingdom ruling over the world at that time will be the Kingdom of Heaven headed by Jesus Christ and administered in varying degrees and various capacities by the resurrected saints of the ages before that time. That is, after the Church has been resurrected and, as one of the seven Thunder Judgments (Revelation 10:3-4; not the right medium here to explicate these judgments) to be administered, they have been evaluated according to their works of faith, each one will be given their position in Jesus's worldwide government in the Millennium with some earning a much higher rank than others.

It is the saints then who will rule over the earth with the Lord Jesus, not Satan and his demons anymore.

There will still be unbelievers in those thousand years, and some of them will break the law, but the punishment for disobedience will be so severe (death, in fact) that very few indeed will dare to test the Lord Jesus like that. If a nation refuses to send delegates to the annual assemblies at Jerusalem, for example, they will suffer droughts until they repent (Zechariah 14:16-19). Suffice to say that it will be as perfect a world as it can get with human beings who still have a sinful nature living in it. There will be very few deaths too (Isaiah 65:20). Many of those who start the Millennium will actually live through it, just as it once was before the Flood, only better.

At the end of this time, Satan will be released from the Abyss to test humanity again. In short order, he will foment a rebellion against the perfect government of Jesus Christ. That will result in the destruction of this universe. Then there will be a final Judgment of Millennial believers and then of all unbelievers from Cain until the last unbeliever to die.

After that Judgment, the Lord Jesus will create a new Universe to which the Father will return to live with all believers and elect angels forever. All unbelievers along with Satan and his fellow rebel angels, on the other hand, will be thrown into the Lake of Fire to suffer there eternally.

In short, yes, it is after the Great Tribulation that the Lord Jesus will return to rule over the whole world. But, no, there is no such thing as a rapture.

PS: I forgot to explain what I think your question really is here, Donspicey. I think that you are asking what Revelation 12 actually means.

At that point, John was given both a flashback and a flashforward.

First, he was shown Israel producing God's Messiah, the bone of contention from the beginning. Satan wanted God's Throne from the beginning. He was made the preeminent creature in the universe, God's very own "bodyguard," but that did not satisfy him. He wanted to be God Himself. Well, God was not going to give Him His Throne. Rather, God made Man and gave him Satan's old position as ruler of the earth. Man sinned and gave away a considerable portion of that authority to Satan. But this only triggered the Promise of the Messiah Who would come and take all that Satan once had.

That Messiah is Jesus Christ. His first Advent was not a warrior Advent. He did not come then to conquer and reign. He came to face tests and offer His Life as a ransom for the world that God loves, the very opposite of what Satan did when he ruled over God's earth. Satan attempted to wrest the earth from God and make it his own, destroying it in the process. Jesus came to win it back for the Lord God even at the cost of His Own Life.

So, of course, Satan tried to destroy Him. Interestingly, this image of a dragon waiting to destroy a baby boy is very reminiscent of what Herod did when the wise men told him of the birth of the Christ. Satan tried many times and in many ways either to physically destroy the Lord Jesus or to get Him to sin so that He would fail in His Mission. He failed on both counts. When he did succeed at killing Him, it only destroyed his own war plan. By killing Jesus Christ, he made the Sacrifice for all human sin happen. That effectively lost the war for him.

Since the time that that happened, there has been a truce of sorts between God and Satan in the Heavens. Daniel 10:13,20 shows that there was war going on in the heavens above us (not in the Third Heaven, which is God's Battle Headquarters and His current Abode, just the atmosphere and the second Heaven that we call space). But both Daniel 12:1 (Michael's standing up) and Revelation 12:7 indicate that war will break out again in the heavens. You can see from these latter two passages both that there was no war going on up to that point and that war began again at that point. This is because Jesus effectively ended the war with His sacrifice on the Cross. The Messiah was born. He lived without ever sinning. Then He paid the price for human sin on the Cross. Satan was not able to stop any of that.

Then, obviously, Jesus returned to the Third Heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father, having earned by His Obedience as a Human Being the right to rule over all of God's creation.

What did Satan do right after? He could no longer touch Jesus Himself, so ever since then, it has been the Church that he has been attacking and persecuting. The Church has been attacked either with physical persecution or with spiritual corruption since Jesus went back to Heaven until now. And Satan has not done his worst yet.

When the war breaks out in the heavens again, Michael and his cohort of angels (he is one of seven archangels, so he controls only a fraction of all of the angelic armies, but they are sort of the special forces of heaven because Michael's position is a special one) will attack Satan and throw him and his own angelic followers out of the first and second heavens. They will be forced to limit their operations to the earth. This will happen at the midpoint of the Tribulation. That is, in fact, what will trigger the Great Tribulation.

It is because Satan will have lost his place in the heavens at that time (up to that time, the Bible calls him the prince of the power of the air and he does go to the Third Heaven to accuse believers before God, so no, the idea that he fell from heaven some time in the distant past is false and unbiblical) that he will begin a systematic effort to try to kill every last believer in the world through the persecutions of the Antichrist at that time. If he succeeds, then God would have failed in at least one of His Promises, thus proving that Satan's lies about Him might be true.

Of course, he won't succeed. He won't succeed at destroying the nation of Israel partly because a group of believing Israelites will be delivered by the Lord through the command to flee once the Antichrist's idol is set up in the outer court of the Temple in Jerusalem. Those believers will flee toward the South-East where no army sent by the Antichrist will be able to reach them. When one is sent, the Lord will cause the earth to swallow them up (Revelation 12:15).

When he sees that he has failed to catch these believing Jews and kill them, Satan will turn his attention toward killing all Gentile believers. That is why the last 3.5 years of the Tribulation is called the great tribulation. It is a period of intense persecution meant to cause believers to give up their faith in Christ or else to die.

Of course, although many believers will be killed, many will survive to see Jesus return. So, Satan will lose on all fronts.

This is what John was given to see in Revelation 12. Revelation 11:15-15:8 is a description of the stage of the war after the first half of the Tribulation. It essentially sets the stage for the Seven Bowl Judgments that begin in Revelation 16. It explains why the saints are about to suffer, how Satan sets things up (the summoning of the Antichrist and his prophet) for that persecution, and the suffering itself so that the reader can understand why the Seven Bowl Judgments follow.

Please let me know if there's anything you need explained further.

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