This is thread is to show how people got saved before Jesus Christ died on the Cross.  The answer is easy and once you realise that nothing happens by chance you will know that the solution was already in place even before the world began.

Salvation Before the Cross
by Steve Fazekas

The Bible record presents two dominant themes: promise and fulfilment.  Over and again we see God promising and then, true to His Word, fulfilling.  Even at the very beginning, when the fall of man first brought sin and death into the world, God graciously promised that one day Christ would step into history, as a "lamb . . . foreordained before the foundation of the world" (1 Peter 1:19-20), to shed His blood to save a fallen humanity. 

The story of mankind's redemption is "monergistic"; that is, it begins with God alone as the "Prime Mover."  Genesis 3:15 gives the first prophetic promise, an account of the coming struggle between "the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent," whose outcome is never in question.

Couched within the conflict is the divine declaration of promise and fulfillment.  God pledges to send "The Coming One," a Saviour, who would crush the head of Satan to redeem a fallen race.  Then He fulfills His promise when Christ appears in the flesh.

The Old Testament is filled with types and shadows, prophetic indicators announcing through the ancient nation of Israel a Redeemer who would come to deliver His people.  Unmistakably, a gospel theme runs like a silver thread throughout the Bible, joining promise to fulfillment.

The expected arrival of this divine Person loomed large in the minds of many in ancient Israel who searched the Scriptures for confirmation.  John the Baptist's announcement, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" (John 1:29), resonated within the hearts of the multitudes as they flocked to hear Him.

One of the most amazing testimonies to the timelessness of the gospel promise comes from the lips of Jesus Himself.  He comforts and encourages a despondent group of disciples on the road to Emmaus with these amazing words, "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into His glory?" (Luke 24:26).

Whether we look backward or forward in time, God has always saved in the same manner, by His grace through a person's faith in the "seed of the woman," Jesus the promised Messiah, coming in His appointed time to crush the head of Satan and bring redemption to a fallen humanity.

Here was a foreknowledge of God . And predestination of God. But the way of salvation came through Jesus .

Hebrews 9:8
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

@Joeagbaje; i will resolve your above verse for another day. let me deal with your brother olaadegbu for the moment. your theme is similar; post ot.


@olaadegbu;[Quote] The Bible record presents two dominant themes: promise and fulfilment. Over and again we see God promising and then, true to His Word, fulfilling. Even at the very beginning, when the fall of man first brought sin and death iinto the world, God graciously promise that one day Christ would step into history, as a "lamb . . . foreordained before the foundation of the world" (1 Peter 1:19-20), to shed His blood to save a fallen humanity.[/Quote]what is wrong at the two bold[s]? if it is the Bible we are discussing, we expect the beginning to be something from "GENESIS". how is 1 peter 1 19/20 qualifying for the beginning in matters of Adam and Eve if it is them you are holding up for your beginning here?



[Quote]The story of mankind's redemption is "monergistic"; that is, it begins with God alone as the "Prime Mover." Genesis 3:15 gives the first prophetic promise, an account of the coming struggle between "the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent," whose outcome is never in question.[/Quote]see how you killed Trinity by the bold and actually buried it by the below?



[Quote]Couched within the conflict is the divine declaration of promise and fulfillment. god pledges to send "The Coming One," a Saviour, who would crush the head of Satan to redeem a fallen race. Then He fulfills His promise when Christ appears in the flesh.[/Quote]i think you intended to write God instead of god, even though you later introduced a god? the God or god Who or who promised 'the coming one', is He/he Yahweh of Moses or a god from the three godheads of Trinity? if you read your cut and paste to yourself before you posted it, you would have seen that you have already separated Yahweh of Moses Who would be the One dealing with Adam and Eve, away from any of the three godheads of Trinity that Peter is suggesting above.



[Quote]The Old Testament is filled with types and shadows, prophetic indicators announcing through the ancient nation of Israel a Redeemer who would come to deliver His people. Unmistakably, a gospel theme runs like a silver thread throughout the Bible, joining promise to fulfillment.
[/Quote]His people if you remember are the children of israel. how are christians His people in addition to the children of israel? the christians always in speech say the children of israel are the 'His people'. please explain how you manage to add the christians to this 'His people' group. i will remind you that the children of israel laugh at your concept of God. they also laugh at you adding yourselves to 'His people'.



[Quote]The expected arrival of this divine Person loomed large inthe minds of many in ancient Israel who searched the Scriptures for confirmation. John the Baptist's announcement, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" (John 1:29), resonated within the hearts of the multitudes as they flocked to hear Him.[/Quote]the world here is the world of the 12 nations of israel, or the whole wide world, considering that even ishmael children are 12 nations by this time? 'the lamb' as you call jesus did not allow anyone to preach beyond the nations/tribes of the children of israel. this was so important to him that he said he was sent to the children of israel, specifically the lost ones so that he can return then from the lost and found box. now tell us how a yoruba man like yourself becomes one of the lost and found? incidentally, he was long gone before you were born as a non child of israel.



[Quote]One of the most amazing testimonies to the timelessness of the gospel promise comes from the lips of Jesus Himself. He comforts and encourages a despondent group of disciples on the road to Emmaus with these amazing words, "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into His glory?" (Luke 24:26).[/Quote]whose glory; his or that of the God Who sent him? my argument is really to open your mind up to the reality that you move from reality to falsehood in your argument. is God One even before the beginning? yes. is God trinity as in three gods in this godheads? no.



[Quote]Whether we look backward of forward in time, God has always saved in the same manner, by His grace through a person's faith in the "seed of the woman," Jesus the promised Messiah, coming in His appointed time to crush the head of Satan and bring redemption to a fallen humanity.[/Quote]i wonder how jesus participated in the saving of Adam and Eve? i wonder if he actually saved them since they suffered for their sins and even their children are suffering for the same sin? how is satan's head crushed when jesus himself was tempted by him? when peter took the form of satan so much so that jesus had to call peter at that time satan? after the event of peter, we noticed that satan still roam free today to the point that some people are worshiping him. was his head crushed, really? the bible says jesus fought death.yet people continue to die. where are the victories of jesus over the still active head crushed satan and still active already wrestled death? nothing changed, man. i guess the condition remained as it before, during after jesus. nothing has changed.

Joagbaje:

Here was a foreknowledge of God . And predestination of God. But the way of salvation came through Jesus .

Hebrews 9:8
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

Have you read Revelation 13:8 that nuclearboy referred you to?

"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Do you now see that this does not say that names have been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world but that the Lamb was planned to be slain from the foundation of the world? If so, why not see that Jesus died to redeem the OT saints who looked forward to the Cross by faith. Read Hebrews 11:1-40 for better understanding.

Sweetnecta:
   
@olaadegbu;what is wrong at the two bold[s]? if it is the Bible we are discussing, we expect the beginning to be something from "GENESIS". how is 1 peter 1 19/20 qualifying for the beginning in matters of Adam and Eve if it is them you are holding up for your beginning here?

Ask me again.

Sweetnecta:

see how you killed Trinity by the bold and actually buried it by the below?

Why is this trinity thing eating you up like this?

Sweetnecta:

i think you intended to write God instead of god, even though you later introduced a god? the God or god Who or who promised 'the coming one', is He/he Yahweh of Moses or a god from the three godheads of Trinity? if you read your cut and paste to yourself before you posted it, you would have seen that you have already separated Yahweh of Moses Who would be the One dealing with Adam and Eve, away from any of the three godheads of Trinity that Peter is suggesting above.

Thanks for the correction as I have duly edited my post.  Must you Muslims always be fixated on the trinity that you don't understand, can't you practise your faith without using Christianity as a reference?

Sweetnecta:

His people if you remember are the children of israel. how are christians His people in addition to the children of israel? the christians always in speech say the children of israel are the 'His people'. please explain how you manage to add the christians to this 'His people' group. i will remind you that the children of israel laugh at your concept of God. they also laugh at you adding yourselves to 'His people'.

Since you have excluded yourselves from being His children why bother yourselves on those who have received Him as their personal Saviour and Lord?

Sweetnecta:

the world here is the world of the 12 nations of israel, or the whole wide world, considering that even ishmael children are 12 nations by this time? 'the lamb' as you call jesus did not allow anyone to preach beyond the nations/tribes of the children of israel. this was so important to him that he said he was sent to the children of israel, specifically the lost ones so that he can return then from the lost and found box. now tell us how a yoruba man like yourself becomes one of the lost and found? incidentally, he was long gone before you were born as a non child of israel.

You should also tell me how you a Yoruba man becomes an Arab descendant.  I have chosen to worship the seed of the woman what about you?

Sweetnecta:

whose glory; his or that of the God Who sent him? my argument is really to open your mind up to the reality that you move from reality to falsehood in your argument. is God One even before the beginning? yes. is God trinity as in three gods in this godheads? no.

My friend, we are not talking about your Allah of the Qur'an here, so do us a favour and beat it.

Sweetnecta:

i wonder how jesus participated in the saving of Adam and Eve? i wonder if he actually saved them since they suffered for their sins and even their children are suffering for the same sin? how is satan's head crushed when jesus himself was tempted by him? when peter took the form of satan so much so that jesus had to call peter at that time satan? after the event of peter, we noticed that satan still roam free today to the point that some people are worshiping him. was his head crushed, really? the bible says jesus fought death.yet people continue to die. where are the victories of jesus over the still active head crushed satan and still active already wrestled death? nothing changed, man. i guess the condition remained as it before, during after jesus. nothing has changed.

This is a typical example of what Joagbaje calls a natural man who cannot understand the things of God except he be born again.

Again to answer the question of what happens to the people who died before Jesus came, let us read this verse in the book of Hebrews:

"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect" (Heb.12:22-23).

Jesus is and has always been the central point of history.  In the OT, we read about the law that was given to the Israelites, and all the sacrifices they were commanded by God to carry out, all the festivals they were to keep, and all the feasts they were to conduct.  The reason for all of these is that they pointed to Jesus.

Since the Fall of man, when sin entered the world, everyone on earth through faith (either in Jesus who was to come or Jesus who has now come) has the opportunity for salvation through faith.  This is why the Jews had so many laws (613 of them), festivals and sacrifices, which now have all been fulfilled in Christ, the Messiah they were looking towards.  It would have been impossible for a Jew to do something without it having reference to the Messiah yet to come.  Praise God, the Messiah has now come.  We all need to make sure we have put our faith and trust in Him.

Therefore, people before Jesus Christ were saved by faith, and thus went to heaven when they died, and those who did not have faith went to hellfire, which is the fate of all those who choose not to believe and receive Jesus Christ as their own Saviour and Lord today.

Before jesus died on the cross everyone were saved thanks to their Pagan Gods and Godesses. After jesus died on the cross, all those who remained Pagan were saved by der Gods and Godesses but those who converted were doomed for eternity.

PAGAN 9JA:

Before jesus died on the cross everyone were saved thanks to their Pagan Gods and Godesses. After jesus died on the cross, all those who remained Pagan were saved by der Gods and Godesses but those who converted were doomed for eternity.

"For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law. (For not the hearer of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.  For the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law to themselves: Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another" Romans 2:12-15.

The pagans will go to hell for murder, ra pe, adultery, lust, theft, lying, etc.  Sin is not failing to hear the gospel.  Rather, sin is the transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4).  And the Law is written on your conscience.

@Olaadegbu; « #3 on: Yesterday at 11:47:06 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: Joagbaje on Yesterday at 09:57:38 PM
Here was a foreknowledge of God . And predestination of God. But the way of salvation came through Jesus .

Hebrews 9:8
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

Have you read Revelation 13:8 that nuclearboy referred you to?

"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Do you now see that this does not say that names have been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world but that the Lamb was planned to be slain from the foundation of the world?  If so, why not see that Jesus died to redeem the OT saints who looked forward to the Cross by faith.  Read Hebrews 11:1-40 for better understanding.[/Quote]while you are now in two camps in the above; joagbaje believing that it was the foreknowledge and predestination of God that made people Paradise or Hell bound before Jesus, you, olaadegbu and your suppoter are quoting verses from books that were written after Jesus exited the earth. these new ideas about Jesus oppose what Jesus said about himself and God. if if we put all of these into the all things considered category, we will have to accept what we can be certain that came from Jesus and not what we think Jesus said or might have said or what some other person said about him.


paul for example forced the idea on the conscience of people that jesus had to be more than a prophet by saying that if jesus didn't get crucified and resurrected his own gospel that he is now preaching, which is not exactly the gospel that Jesus preached. that gospel of jesus is known by his disciples of 12, a group paul was never part of. we will read about peter opposing paul so much so that paul had to bully him with 'i will say it to his face' statement that is definitely confrontational. what is the truth about Jesus? Only God Who was never on earth but in heaven as Invisible to people on earth knows without anything hidden.


jesus himself knew less of himself compared to what knows about jesus. could the another comforter not to have been informed of this 100% truth about jesus, by God Almighty Whose Speech this spirit of truth as another comforter hears as in command and latest information and repeat just that without addition or subtraction in order to correct [you don't correct what is right or correct. but if when you correct, people have the freedom to adopt the correction or reject it], guide and lead to all truth and speak the most honoring thing about jesus. if jesus was always God, what is it that the another comforter who is the spirit of truth is going to say other than mere confirmation, which is not going to make the 'he will glorify me' part come to life?


but if the another comforter says that jesus was a prophet like previous prophet but without a father, yet his mother was not a sexually lewd woman, we will soon realize that this is the best form of glorification, instead of making a man, a prophet, a definitely powerless on his own strength [jesus said all of these about himself] a deity. we can't beautify a mansion be name by calling it a palace, when it is not big enough and no crown resides in it. reality my good man.




[Quote]« #4 on: Today at 12:13:19 AM »

Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 10:53:13 PM
 
@olaadegbu;what is wrong at the two bold[s]? if it is the Bible we are discussing, we expect the beginning to be something from "GENESIS". how is 1 peter 1 19/20 qualifying for the beginning in matters of Adam and Eve if it is them you are holding up for your beginning here?

Ask me again.

Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 10:53:13 PM
see how you killed Trinity by the bold and actually buried it by the below?

Why is this trinity thing eating you up like this?

Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 10:53:13 PM

i think you intended to write God instead of god, even though you later introduced a god? the God or god Who or who promised 'the coming one', is He/he Yahweh of Moses or a god from the three godheads of Trinity? if you read your cut and paste to yourself before you posted it, you would have seen that you have already separated Yahweh of Moses Who would be the One dealing with Adam and Eve, away from any of the three godheads of Trinity that Peter is suggesting above.

Thanks for the correction as I have duly edited my post.  Must you Muslims always be fixated on the trinity that you don't understand, can't you practise your faith without using Christianity as a reference?

Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 10:53:13 PM

His people if you remember are the children of israel. how are christians His people in addition to the children of israel? the christians always in speech say the children of israel are the 'His people'. please explain how you manage to add the christians to this 'His people' group. i will remind you that the children of israel laugh at your concept of God. they also laugh at you adding yourselves to 'His people'.

Since you have excluded yourselves from being His children why bother yourselves on those who have received Him as their personal Saviour and Lord?

Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 10:53:13 PM

the world here is the world of the 12 nations of israel, or the whole wide world, considering that even ishmael children are 12 nations by this time? 'the lamb' as you call jesus did not allow anyone to preach beyond the nations/tribes of the children of israel. this was so important to him that he said he was sent to the children of israel, specifically the lost ones so that he can return then from the lost and found box. now tell us how a yoruba man like yourself becomes one of the lost and found? incidentally, he was long gone before you were born as a non child of israel.

You should also tell me how you a Yoruba man becomes an Arab descendant.  I have chosen to worship the seed of the woman what about you?

Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 10:53:13 PM

whose glory; his or that of the God Who sent him? my argument is really to open your mind up to the reality that you move from reality to falsehood in your argument. is God One even before the beginning? yes. is God trinity as in three gods in this godheads? no.

My friend, we are not talking about your Allah of the Qur'an here, so do us a favour and beat it.
[/Quote]suddenly, you broke into michael jackson's mood. When you lie on God and lie on His prophet [as], it is our duty to at least agitate your conscience, reminding you to be very careful of the consequence of your action. God is an English word to identify Allah an Arabic word being the Personal Name of God. If you write in Yoruba and you use Olorun, will that be a different being from the being that you have in mind when you write the English word; God? incidentally, no knowledgeable Arab Jew or Christian will say Allah of the Quran is not the Yahweh or Elah, etc of the One God [not a trinity god head] in their mind. if you find a truly knowledgeable one who opposes my statement here, direct him to the video on youtube where a jewish rabbi is saying Islam is the original religion of mankind dating directly to the time of Adam, the first man, directing him to God, alone without any deviation.

And you should posse the arabness of the yoruba to the entire yoruba tribe. start with olusegun aremu obasanjo who wrote about this in order to identify his yorubaness. he is a christian, but will not deny the origin of his tribal heritage. olaadegbu, are you a yoruba man, if you are denyng your arab root, simply because you are a christian, while the elites of yorubas who are christians are eager to embrace the arab past in them? change your name. that will work, instead of opposition to what is obvious.

i am not a child of God but His creature who approaches Him directly as He commanded. He, alone is Enough for me, so why would i take a savior when He is the One Who is able to save me, by His Infinite Mercy. i cant practice what the osun worshipers indulge by introducing a personal savior to get to The God Who already said i must approach Him directly. i will be disobeying Him if i install a personal savior, as you have suggested. Should I obey God or taking your suggestion? taking your suggestion will be a double jeopardy; not truly serving God since i adopted your idea to serve you is a subtle manner and clearing serving that savior you suggested. this is another form of trinity [lol].

and i am bothered or obsessed by trinity. what is clear is clear. truth is clear and it is a singular thing. false is another thing, changing as the world turns; God was One, then He became Three as in Three persons, yet still One. This is not something the mind or spirit can accept as sound. since you ask that i ask you, again; how do you do it?




[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 10:53:13 PM
i wonder how jesus participated in the saving of Adam and Eve? i wonder if he actually saved them since they suffered for their sins and even their children are suffering for the same sin? how is satan's head crushed when jesus himself was tempted by him? when peter took the form of satan so much so that jesus had to call peter at that time satan? after the event of peter, we noticed that satan still roam free today to the point that some people are worshiping him. was his head crushed, really? the bible says jesus fought death.yet people continue to die. where are the victories of jesus over the still active head crushed satan and still active already wrestled death? nothing changed, man. i guess the condition remained as it before, during after jesus. nothing has changed.

This is a typical example of what Joagbaje calls a natural man who cannot understand the things of God except he be born again.[/Quote]Which of you is not a 'natural man'? please explain what is not natural about you? Give us examples of your features, perchance you may not have a soul, or dont eat, etc? what are things of God? Can we ascribe confusing thing[s] to God when the bible declares that God is not the Author of confusion? it will going against the bibe if we say confusing thing like three godheads is One God is not confusing and therefore ascribe it to God, defining Him by it.




[Quote]« #5 on: Today at 09:09:50 AM »

Again to answer the question of what happens to the people who died before Jesus came, let us read this verse in the book of Hebrews:

"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect" (Heb.12:22-23).[/Quote]does this verse make sense to you at all by speaking the truth and direct? First, the writer is not jesus. i will submit to you that the content of this verse is completely opposite what jesus said, and what the another comforter returned believers to by his correction. Jesus is not familiar with any church, a concept developed after his God took him up. jesus prayed as in worshiped in a temple so that you should know that church is foreign to jesus. jerusalem is on earth and there is nothing heavenly about it except many prophets lived or visited it. in the time of Jesus, and the time of the writer of Hebrew 12; 22/23, most people in jerusalem were disbelievers. today the people who control it are exactly the same disbelievers. angels are believers and obedient to One God. they do not believe in trinity since you can not show a place where the Angels worship the holy ghost. your first born concept is just that without any proof of its validity and you have no clarity of its meaning.




[Quote]Jesus is and has always been the central point of history.  In the OT, we read about the law that was given to the Israelites, and all the sacrifices they were commanded by God to carry out, all the festivals they were to keep, and all the feasts they were to conduct.  The reason for all of these is that they pointed to Jesus.[/Quote]what history is this? in ot, jesus was not mentioned even once. show me 'jesus' in any ot verse. can you recall when anyone called him 'emmanuel' in nt? we read the names of adam, eve, etc in ot more than just a casual word. jesus did not even meet that qualification in ot.




[Quote]Since the Fall of man, when sin entered the world, everyone on earth through faith (either in Jesus who was to come or Jesus who has now come) has the opportunity for salvation through faith.  This is why the Jews had so many laws (613 of them), festivals and sacrifices, which now have all been fulfilled in Christ, the Messiah they were looking towards.  It would have been impossible for a Jew to do something without it having reference to the Messiah yet to come.  Praise God, the Messiah has now come.  We all need to make sure we have put our faith and trust in Him.[/Quote]what is the fall of man? do you know what you are talking about? where was man created and what did he fall from and by? why is man created being the purpose of his life? you think all things hang on the jews when mankind have been here before the direct forefathers of the jews; the forefathers were isaac, and jacob and even joseph and his brothers whom judah is one of them. we should notice that excluded abraham because he is also the forefathers of arabs and not an exclusive forefather of the jews like his son and grandson isaac and jacob were.




[Quote]Therefore, people before Jesus Christ were saved by faith, and thus went to heaven when they died, and those who did not have faith went to hellfire, which is the fate of all those who choose not to believe and receive Jesus Christ as their own Saviour and Lord today.[/Quote]is not save by faith what the christian still stand on? you see why your 'therefore' does not really carry any weight?

@Olaadegbu; « #7 on: Today at 01:27:12 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: PAGAN 9JA on Today at 01:05:00 PM
Before jesus died on the cross everyone were saved thanks to their Pagan Gods and Godesses. After jesus died on the cross, all those who remained Pagan were saved by der Gods and Godesses but those who converted were doomed for eternity. Cool

"For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law. (For not the hearer of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law to themselves: Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another" Romans 2:12-15.[/Quote]this shows how unjust an unjust deity is. there is no human society that punishes anyone for action that is not against any law. sin by its definition is an act deemed wrongful because it goes against a law. if your deity will condemn anyone without going against his law, what kind of fairness can we attach to such a tyrannical deity?


[Quote]The pagans will go to hell for murder, ra pe, adultery, lust, theft, lying, etc. Sin is not failing to hear the gospel. Rather, sin is the transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). And the Law is written on your conscience.[/Quote]remember that they do not have a law prohibiting them against what you call murder, rape, adultery, lust, theft, lying, etc. how are they transgressors when there was nothing to even prick their conscience to consciousness about it? they are like a people fast asleep. do you punish a person for what is [done in sleep] committed while unconscious of it? there is no sense of fairness in your statement since biblical God actually told Adam and Eve about the consequence of the tree. was that not on their conscience or it was not enough to be on the conscience and it must be spoken to them? if the people who were not given the privilege to hear it, is going to be punished, why are Adam and Eve forgiven, so much so what they suffer is only on this earth, suffered by people who are sinless but want to succeed? even job was sinless. so was zacharias. so was his son john. job suffered in the health department while john was beheaded.

thank you very much sweetnecta. you stole my words bu am happy u hav undergone true realisation.

throughout d ages, we Pagans hav been discriminated and portrayed as witches and barbarians. But what dey dont realise is that "everything" in d world starts Pagan. The monotheists are always speakin againt d Pagans in deir holy books and dey neva accept us as d children of God just as dey are. But we Pagans r diferent. We neva speak against other religions and are alwayz ready o accomodate new and "good" ideas. But d problem here is dat d monotheists had/hav NOTHING, i repeat, NOTHING good to offer apart frm slavery,cultural suppression,religious fanticism and violence against everyone, be it human or animal.

@Sweetnecta, Can you please learn how to post and make it user friendly? 

I will leave you with some quotes for you and PAGAN 9JA to think about. 

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." -- Acts 4:12

This is one of the clearest statements that can be found anywhere setting forth the one way of salvation.  Only Jesus Christ can save, for He both created and sustains all things.  He Himself has made this plain in John 14:6 when He said:

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me."

As offensive as such a truth may be to non-Christians, we must continually make it clear in our witness to them, for without Christ they are lost and bound for hell.  It was Paige Patterson who said this when commenting on the passage above:

"It comes down to a question of truth.  Every false religious expression is a religion of darkness.  That doesn't mean there are no good things in that faith.  But if Jesus is to be taken seriously when He says, 'No one comes to the Father but through Me', every other proposal is one of darkness."

all i can say is dat jesus had us all fooled. he is no son of god. jus sum jewish attention-seeking carpenter.
and extremely offensive against fellow human Pagans. to be holy, u nid to be pure, bu jesus was rascist or should i say, religiously prejudiced against Pagan tribals.

i mean, even i can start saying, NO ONE COMES TO DAD, BUT ME. so r u jus gnna start following me arrigh do dat den. i say, NO ONE COMES TO DAD, BUT ME. woooooooooooooo

i noe. even thinking differently can be a problem thses days. even if its for d good of mankind.

@Olaadegbu; #11 on: Today at 06:16:42 PM »
[Quote]@Sweetnecta, Can you please learn how to post and make it user friendly?[/Quote]your professor was not your friend when he was teaching you. this is the same with me. i am teaching you, hence i can't be user friendly because you may not learn, but go on with your copy and paste.




[Quote]I will leave you with some quotes for you and PAGAN 9JA to think about.

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." -- Acts 4:12

This is one of the clearest statements that can be found anywhere setting forth the one way of salvation. Only Jesus Christ can save, for He both created and sustains all things. He Himself has made this plain in John 14:6 when He said:

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me."[/Quote]a child whose mother is not the wife of the father is what, again? how relevant were the bold to the time before Jesus or from the time Muhammad was thoroughly established? can jesus be the savior of sinless Job? further you need to watch the youtube video series on 'the missing years of jesus'. they are suggesting that he copied buhhdah and also followed john, copying him in the ways of the jewish essenne sect.




[Quote]As offensive as such a truth may be to non-Christians, we must continually make it clear in our witness to them, for without Christ they are lost and bound for hell. It was Paige Patterson who said this when commenting on the passage above:

"It comes down to a question of truth. Every false religious expression is a religion of darkness. That doesn't mean there are no good things in that faith. But if Jesus is to be taken seriously when He says, 'No one comes to the Father but through Me', every other proposal is one of darkness."[/Quote]you and paige petterson are wrong when you can't even give us a correct answer of jesus as God, while ghost is God and while father is God, too. i counted three Gods above whle you will say you counted one. yet you will tri angle is a 3 angle thing. but you will not accept that tri nity is a 3 god thing. why the double standard?

monotheists srsly, u guyz r alwayz confused.

PAGAN 9JA:

all i can say is dat jesus had us all fooled. he is no son of god. jus sum jewish attention-seeking carpenter.
and extremely offensive against fellow human Pagans. to be holy, u nid to be pure, bu jesus was rascist or should i say, religiously prejudiced against Pagan tribals.

GBAM!!!!! The number 1 problem with christians is that it has been programmed into their skull that the BIBLE is the word of God. They have no mind of their own (the bible says wethey have the 'mind of christ'), whatever the white-man wrote in the bible is their ALL in ALL, can't think outside of that.

Sweetnecta:

@Olaadegbu; #11 on: Today at 06:16:42 PM »your professor was not your friend when he was teaching you. this is the same with me. i am teaching you, hence i can't be user friendly because you may not learn, but go on with your copy and paste.

I can understand that your arabic alfa was hard on you while you were learning your arabic but that does not mean you should take your anger out on the people outside your world.  You've been posting for over a year and by now you should be able to post properly.

Sweetnecta:

a child whose mother is not the wife of the father is what, again? how relevant were the bold to the time before Jesus or from the time Muhammad was thoroughly established? can jesus be the savior of sinless Job? further you need to watch the youtube video series on 'the missing years of jesus'. they are suggesting that he copied buhhdah and also followed john, copying him in the ways of the jewish essenne sect.

It is either you are not a good Muslim or you are just playing lip service that Jesus is your prophet.  If you truly believe that Jesus is your prophet you would not have to resort to derogatory remarks about him.

Sweetnecta:

you and paige petterson are wrong when you can't even give us a correct answer of jesus as God, while ghost is God and while father is God, too. i counted three Gods above whle you will say you counted one. yet you will tri angle is a 3 angle thing. but you will not accept that tri nity is a 3 god thing. why the double standard?

If you are a true Muslim who believes in what his prophets say you will take what Jesus said as the truth and nothing but the truth.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me."

PAGAN 9JA:

i noe. even thinking differently can be a problem thses days. even if its for d good of mankind.

You are just one funny man.   Tell me at least one good thing that your paganism has for mankind.

"It comes down to a question of truth. Every false religious expression is a religion of darkness. That doesn't mean there are no good things in that faith. But if Jesus is to be taken seriously when He says, 'No one comes to the Father but through Me', every other proposal is one of darkness."

Idi-Amin:

GBAM!!!!! The number 1 problem with christians is that it has been programmed into their skull that the BIBLE is the word of God. They have no mind of their own (the bible says wethey have the 'mind of christ'), whatever the white-man wrote in the bible is their ALL in ALL, can't think outside of that.

And you don't think that you've been programmed with evolutionism?  Everyone is influenced by something either the word of man, the word of Satan or by the Word of God, it is your mind that you will use to make a choice, a choice between life and death.

Independent Thinking?

[img width=500 height=300]http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/media/cartoons/after-eden/20020225.gif[/img]

@ PAGAN 9JA
Jesus Christ is no Jew He is both God and Creator and He loves you. He is the only one who can offer Eternal life as the expression of Divine love to man-kind. Think about this and understand that l do not wish to engage in an agument

OLAADEGBU:

You are just one funny man.   Tell me at least one good thing that your paganism has for mankind.

"It comes down to a question of truth. Every false religious expression is a religion of darkness. That doesn't mean there are no good things in that faith. But if Jesus is to be taken seriously when He says, 'No one comes to the Father but through Me', every other proposal is one of darkness."

one good thing how about i say "many" good things that my Paganism has done. First of all Paganism is not fanatical, oppressive or interested in gaining converts. Our ideologies r ones embedded in a peaceful co-existance with fellow human beings, nature and animals. We treat animals as equals and at times even as higher beings. So therefore, the first gud thing my Paganism has done is to teach us the important lesson of humility. One that makind has disregarded oer d ages and which will soon lead to his doom. (global warming, species extinction, etc.) My Paganism has thought my people that in order to seek God, we must first look into our inner self/spirit. Therefore, my Paginism teaches me d second most important lesson of self-respect, for without self-respect, man will have no individuality and without individuality, man wont have any progress or development. well jus be lyk distilled water. uniform, plain,dull.my religion is not much of  a religion. To me it is a way of life. A way of life that is indispensible. A way of life that is imbibed in my very soul. it is my culture, it is me. We Pagans believe that there is a small part of God imbibed in everything around us. God is all powerful. So God has d power to change or divide into many forms in order to govern the different aspects of life. We believe that God has d power to plurality.Our Paganism teaches us to just explore the world.uncover its mysteries. find new ways. progress.develop.but do so sustainably.Learn from the past/the ancestors, live for the future and finally, aim to be one with God.

@PAGAN 9JA,

Remember the quote of Paige Patterson, it covers your concerns.

Let's start with our first parents, Adam and Eve, were they saved, did they make it to heaven?  The Bible tells us in Hebrews:

"By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks" (Hebrews 11:4).

The Bible doesn't say for sure if Adam and Eve went to heaven or believed God's promise of the coming Saviour.  But it is most likely they did.  If we look at the Bible verse quoted above which is from the great faith chapter parading the heroes of faith.  God tells us that Abel offered an excellent sacrifice to God, that he had faith, and that he was made righteous.  Abel was Adam and Eve's son and it seems that the only way he could have learnt about God was from his parents.  After all, they walked with God and talked with God.  They were the first two humans ever created.  They were the first to sin and that sin started the practice of making sacrifices to God for the forgiveness of sins.  God actually had to kill an animal to make clothes for Adam and Eve because they suddenly knew they were na ked. (God was the first fashion designer who designed a leather jacket for Adam and a furr coat for Eve ).  Abel knew how to offer a sacrifice that was pleasing to God.  He offered that with a heart that believed in God through faith, and he probably learned that from his parents, Adam and Eve.  If all that is true, then it seems as though Adam and Eve knew the truth as well, and if they did, they will be in heaven.  Simples

@Olaadegbu; « #19 on: Today at 09:49:10 AM »
[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 11:15:07 PM

@Olaadegbu; #11 on: Today at 06:16:42 PM »your professor was not your friend when he was teaching you. this is the same with me. i am teaching you, hence i can't be user friendly because you may not learn, but go on with your copy and paste.

I can understand that your arabic alfa was hard on you while you were learning your arabic but that does not mean you should take your anger out on the people outside your world. You've been posting for over a year and by now you should be able to post properly.[/Quote]did u get the message my pst cary? [i intentionally eliminate a letter here and letter there. hoping that you prefer shorter read]. he avoids, always my questions preferring to put a blinder on and just continue his cut and paste.



[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 11:15:07 PM
a child whose mother is not the wife of the father is what, again? how relevant were the bold to the time before Jesus or from the time Muhammad was thoroughly established? can jesus be the savior of sinless Job? further you need to watch the youtube video series on 'the missing years of jesus'. they are suggesting that he copied buhhdah and also followed john, copying him in the ways of the jewish essenne sect.

It is either you are not a good Muslim or you are just playing lip service that Jesus is your prophet. If you truly believe that Jesus is your prophet you would not have to resort to derogatory remarks about him.[/Quote]who knows about jesus more, you or God? while i am taking God's Words about jesus, i do know that he did not die, hence there was no resurrection [a thing to happen after death. and resurrection is just one time, happening to every person, prophet included]. should i go along with your 'make up' about jesus, instead? no.



[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 11:15:07 PM
you and paige petterson are wrong when you can't even give us a correct answer of jesus as God, while ghost is God and while father is God, too. i counted three Gods above whle you will say you counted one. yet you will tri angle is a 3 angle thing. but you will not accept that tri nity is a 3 god thing. why the double standard?

If you are a true Muslim who believes in what his prophets say you will take what Jesus said as the truth and nothing but the truth.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me."[/Quote]did jesus say thing about himself to mean more than a snapshot of his time on the children of israel, only? does this 'i am the way, . . . to the father' includes before him [how about when moses was the way and many died at that time, long before jesus?] and after him for the rest of the world, even as muhammad arrived with what you are asking me to use to believe what jesus said in the bible? if Quran says jesus was not dead, not crucified and no reason to believe he was resurrected and that he was only a messenger at his time to the children of israel, should you not be sincere with yourself before you ask me to believe in the Quran so that i can believe in what is said about jesus in the bible, even when what you said i should believe in the bible opposes what is in the Quran?

you have to make up tour mind. you can't ask me to accept the shafts as the wheat, when they are completely different. shaft is the stock [it can be fed to the cattle, whereas wheat, definitely man eats.

@Sweetnecta

Is Allah Like You? Examine yourself and see where you stand in the track below:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1058/1058_01.asp

OLAADEGBU:

Let's start with our first parents, Adam and Eve, were they saved, did they make it to heaven? The Bible tells us in Hebrews:

"By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks" (Hebrews 11:4).

The Bible doesn't say for sure if Adam and Eve went to heaven or believed God's promise of the coming Saviour. But it is most likely they did. If we look at the Bible verse quoted above which is from the great faith chapter parading the heroes of faith. God tells us that Abel offered an excellent sacrifice to God, that he had faith, and that he was made righteous. Abel was Adam and Eve's son and it seems that the only way he could have learnt about God was from his parents. After all, they walked with God and talked with God. They were the first two humans ever created. They were the first to sin and that sin started the practice of making sacrifices to God for the forgiveness of sins. God actually had to kill an animal to make clothes for Adam and Eve because they suddenly knew they were na ked. (God was the first fashion designer who designed a leather jacket for Adam and a furr coat for Eve ). Abel knew how to offer a sacrifice that was pleasing to God. He offered that with a heart that believed in God through faith, and he probably learned that from his parents, Adam and Eve. If all that is true, then it seems as though Adam and Eve knew the truth as well, and if they did, they will be in heaven. Simples

As aa Pagan, i refuse to accept my descent from 2 sinful and amourous people called adam and eve. Me, I am descended from ape-like creatures who gradually evolved into our present form.

PAGAN 9JA:

As aa Pagan, i refuse to accept my descent from 2 sinful and amourous people called adam and eve. Me, I am descended from ape-like creatures who gradually evolved into our present form.

This shows that the evolutionists have their roots in paganism, that is, evolutionism is a modern way of practising paganism.

True Family

[img width=500 height=500]http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/media/cartoons/after-eden/20090828.gif[/img]

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me." -- John 14:6

Jesus is the One who said that He is the only way to the Father. For Christians to say that there are other ways to find peace with God is to bear false testimony. In one sweeping statement, Jesus discards all other religions as a means of finding forgiveness of sins. This agrees with other Scriptures:

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12),

and:

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5).

talk sense olaadegbu. Its already proven dt we r descended from apes. WE HAVE PROOF!!!! so stop ranting about adam n eve. thats old sh.iT n its preventing our progress. get aa life will ya,