namfav:

you haven't answered the point about nigerians in the west and the civil war, how many left with the civil war, do you even have a idea of that since you spoke about migration?

I don't have an exact data, but I can infer from experience and observation;

I think more people migrated out of Nigeria during the Economic collapse of the Military era -late 1970's to late 1990's- than at any other time since the "forced migration" of the Trans-Atlantic Slave trade era.

People definitely left Nigeria as refugees during the Civil War era, especially South East folks, but by my guesstimation, (since I don't have data here) I believe more people left during the era of military misrule. Specifically from the late 70's.

I'm speaking chiefly about economic and permanent migration not just mere travelling.

The collapse of the Nigerian Agricultural sector (specifically non-oil exports) the reversal of whatever small industrial gains we made in the 70's, The SAP program, the Austerity measure, the collapse of the Naira, coupled with massive increase in social and public corruption presided over by the military and the bastardization of the professional Civil Service forced many Nigerians, especially middle class Nigerians out of the Country.

Most of those folks are still out of Nigeria. I bet their kids are the majority on Nairaland today.

Kilode?!:

I don't have an exact data, but I can infer from experience and observation;

I think more people migrated out of Nigeria during the Economic collapse of the Military era -late 1970's to late 1990's- than at any other time since the "forced migration" of the Trans-Atlantic Slave trade era.

People definitely left Nigeria as refugees during the Civil War era, especially South East folks, but by my guesstimation, (since I don't have data here) I believe more people left during the era of military misrule. Specifically from the late 70's.

I'm speaking chiefly about economic and permanent migration not just mere travelling.

The collapse of the Nigerian Agricultural sector (specifically non-oil exports) the reversal of whatever small industrial gains we made in the 70's, The SAP program, the Austerity measure, the collapse of the Naira, coupled with massive increase in social and public corruption presided over by the military and the bastardization of the professional Civil Service forced many Nigerians, especially middle class Nigerians out of the Country.

Most of those folks are still out of Nigeria. I bet their kids are the majority on Nairaland today.

To support your argument; most Nigerians who studied abroad returned to Nigeria in the 70s before the mass exodus started in the 80s. The biggest brain drain occured during International Batty Boy's 8 year reign of tenure.

Katsumoto:

To support your argument; most Nigerians who studied abroad returned to Nigeria in the 70s before the mass exodus started in the 80s. The biggest brain drain occured during International Batty Boy's 8 year reign of tenure.

Exactly.

A lot of them came back to join the Federal and state civil service and the small but growing private sector then, unfortunately, many were forced to move back later in the late 70's to early 80's when the Naira crashed and corruption went to the high heavens, till today, they are yet to return massively like the earlier generations did after studying in the 60's to early 70's. I guess they don't want to repeat their Parent's or Grandparent's mistakes.

We essentially lost a whole generation of educated vibrant Nigerians and their offsprings to foreign lands. very sad really.

And mostly because some idi/ots were more concerned about looting oil money than governing well.

Kilode, you don't need exact data. If he wants indicators, he should take a look at leading Nigerians (and retired/deceased ones) in international organisations and leading Nigerian Professors abroad (and retired/deceased ones) and take a look at their profiles.

They all studied abroad, came back home in the 60s and 70s, and then left for work abroad in 80s and 90s.

The intellectuals tend to lead a brain drain which normally depresses an economy further and leading to more migration by the suffering laymen.

I dont think there was any time in the history of nigeria when going abroad wasnt NOT a choice.

Its always been a country of excessive migration and voluntary or involuntary emigration.

Sagamite:

Kilode, you don't need exact data. If he wants indicators, he should take a look at leading Nigerians in international organisations and leading Nigerian Professors abroad and take a look at their profiles.

They all studied abroad, came back home in the 60s and 70s, and then left for work abroad in 80s and 90s.

Good point.

The intellectuals tend to lead a brain drain which normally depress the economy further and lead to more migration by the suffering laymen.

And that has been the lot of Nigeria in the past few decades. The loss of such vital human resources is everyone's loss really. .

Poorer teaching Faculties at our Universities, Weak and poorly trained Private and Civil Service. We lost big time.

It's great to see things picking up a bit in the private sector though. It's still very modest, but it's a good start.

tpia@:

I dont think there was any time in the history of nigeria when going abroad wasnt NOT a choice.

Its always been a country of excessive migration and voluntary or involuntary emigration.

Migration is normal in most countries; Americans, Brits, Australians, etc all emigrate to other countries for various reasons - Family, new jobs, adventure, education, etc. That kind of migration is different from the one experienced in Nigeria where anyone who can get out, gets out (economic). In the early 90s, a significant number of excellent doctors emigrated to Saudi Arabia and the US. Hence the term, 'brain drain' when the migration is abnormal.

The mistake the GON made in the 70's was educating people without creating jobs for them. The governement was even paying for students to go abroad and study before SAP. When the educated people came back there was nothing, And the the oil boom turned into the oil doom. . . .

pleep:

The mistake the GON made in the 70's was educating people without creating jobs for them. The governement was even paying for students to go abroad and study before SAP. When the educated people came back there was nothing, And the the oil boom turned into the oil doom. . . .

Governments are not there to create jobs, the are there to create enabling environments.

That was decently there in the 70s. The 80s, from Shagari forward, destroyed the environment.

Shagari appears to be a gentleman but just utterly clueless and unqualified to rule a nation.

IBB and Abasha destroyed the environment. Bloody arsewipe criminals!

Sagamite:

Governments are not there to create jobs, the are there to create enabling environments.

That was decently there in the 70s. The 80s, from Shagari forward, destroyed the environment.

Shagari appears to be a gentleman but just utterly clueless and unqualified to rule a nation.

IBB and Abasha destroyed the environment. Bloody arsewipe criminals!

Nigeria's problem actually started with Murtala Mohammed. It was Murtala who sacked permanent secretaries in 1975 without compensation. These career civil servants were made redundant without any pensions to provide for them. The next set of civil servants then decided to keep something for themselves in case they lost their jobs; the corruption epidemic was born. I guess Murtala was so myopic that he didn't see that coming. Nigeria has had more than its fair share of unqualified, visionless leaders who are bent on ruling at all costs.

Katsumoto:

Nigeria's problem actually started with Murtala Mohammed. It was Murtala who sacked permanent secretaries in 1975 without compensation. These career civil servants were made redundant without any pensions to provide for them. The next set of civil servants then decided to keep something for themselves in case they lost their jobs; the corruption epidemic was born. I guess Murtala was so myopic that he didn't see that coming. Nigeria has had more than its fair share of unqualified, visionless leaders who are bent on ruling at all costs.

This is the most pathetic justification or explanation for the endemic corruption present in the Nigerian society that I've ever heard. Your explanation portrays a morally bankrupt set of people who are far worse than Murtala , even if we are to accept your reasoning. I'll assume that you are simply pulling our legs or just having a bad day.

Call Murtala visionless but don't blame him for the endemic corruption in Nigeria - that is just too unreasonable and frankly senseless.

ndu_chucks:

This is the most pathetic justification or explanation for the endemic corruption present in the Nigerian society that I've ever heard. Your explanation portrays a morally bankrupt set of people who are far worse than Murtala , even if we are to accept your reasoning.  I'll assume that you are simply pulling our legs or just having a bad day.

Call Murtala visionless but don't blame him for the endemic corruption in Nigeria - that is just too unreasonable and frankly senseless.

Your comment and position does not surprise me. I am able to connect the dots from the problem to the cause with regards to my prognosis. I would love to hear your prognosis.

Corruption took off in the OBJ administration and it was in full flight in the Shagari administration. We don't need to get into the IBB and Abacha eras. Before Murtala, corruption was mainly a thing of a few ministers and governors.

Katsumoto:

Your comment and position does not surprise me. I am able to connect the dots from the problem to the cause with regards to my prognosis. I would love to hear your prognosis.

Corruption took off in the OBJ administration and it was in full flight in the Shagari administration. We don't need to get into the IBB and Abacha eras. Before Murtala, corruption was mainly a thing of a few ministers and governors.

Some Super Permanent Secretaries were corrupt. As a people, we have been corrupt since the '60s. IBB only institutionalized it.

@ola olabiy,
Rupert Murdoch is actually the prime minister while David Cameron is nothing but a muppet. The Murdoch Empire operates like a mafia, they are untouchable, some senior members of the Metropolitan police are the in their pockets, they have spies working for them @ the BBC, Guardian, Independent. look at the way they set up Vince Cable, they knew he was going to block Murdoch's bid for the SKYB takeover so those slappers oops girls from the daily telegraph scretly tapped Vince Cable staying he had "declared war on rupert murdoch" (those girls might work for the telegraph but they secretly work for murdoch) Vince Cable was moved to another department, now that Chris Hume is planing to challenge Nick clegg, they are digging up his past (thats' why the papers are filled with alleged driving offences)

Why is this thread in politics section while mine was moved else where?.

.

Katsumoto

It was Murtala who sacked permanent secretaries in 1975 without compensation. These career civil servants were made redundant without any pensions to provide for them. The next set of civil servants then decided to keep something for themselves in case they lost their jobs; the corruption epidemic was born.

Gbam!! Personal economic Insecurity begets unpatriotic behaviour.

ndu chucks

Call Murtala visionless but don't blame him for the endemic corruption in Nigeria - that is just too unreasonable and frankly senseless.

I don't think Katsumoto implied that Murtala invented endemic corruption but that he created and accelerated the "climate" of fear and general sense of insecurity about employment. We cannot runaway from understanding how seemingly "nationalistic" decisions by government can have very negative results and ofcourse inimical for social cohesion. We have not recovered from that experience ever since. Corruption previously was practised by a small coterie of savvy politicians and top elite civil servants and never brazenly celebrated let alone displayed as it is the norm nowadays shamelessly . There existed a modicum of "decorum" and "Shame" previously . Corruption was relatively "undemocratic", until later periods when it became "democratised", institutionalised and etched in our collective psyche as natural like pure water. We can all mention names of "Characters" who in their infinite 'wisdom' helped bring Nigeria on her knees(Khaki and Agbada).

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