cap28:

If by intolerance you mean dissenting opinion then i agree with you - but what is happening in Libya is nothing to do with a group of dissenters but a concerted plan financed and orchestrated by the united states, the united kingdom and france to annex an entire nation in order to control its oil and banking system - Libya is the only african nation whose central bank operates totally independently of the european and american owned international financial banking system.
a group of MI6 and CIA trained  thugs went around shooting up police and army depots and killing military personnel and you say Gadaffi should have folded his arms and watched abi?
why dont you try shooting up a police station in germany and see what will happen to you?

Was Gaddaffi responsible for killing Lumumba of Congo?

how about the removal of Kwame Nkrumah and the assassination of  Murtala Muhammed and  Thomas Sankara because the last time i checked these were all CIA, MI6 and French intelligence sponsored operations.

Do you want me to start listing the number of countries america and britain have waged war on in order to appropriate their natural resources, the list is so long it will fill pages and pages.

According to which facts is he a demon ?- the facts given to you by euroopean and american owned media or arrived at through your own analysis and understanding of the facts?

Hmmm look at what Nigel Farage said about the British MPs, @ 5.50 minute of this clip
sooo sooo true,

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stmarc32:

@cap28 Don't worry you will always have knuckleheads like Morpheus who refuse to acknowledge that everything happening now is history repeating itself , only difference now is that the puppet controlling the guns and bombs has a black face

Who you calling a knuckle head, Knuckle head.

Watch yourself!

stmarc32:


@ Morpheus China didn't really negotiate to get to the stage they r now, Corporate america's greed and their relentless effort to exterminate the american middleclass coz of the power they exerted over policies in the 50s made them what they r now , Read Kissingers book about China says it all.

Thats simply looking at it from one side of the coin. I take it you are familiar with the product life cycle economic theory in play concerning a sometimes "unintended" diffusion of technologies subject to how it is manipulated in the recieving country. Of course there are several other key factors in play that facilitated China's quick absorbtion and duplication of these technologies but thats a whole new chapter on its own.

Don't only read books that reinforce your bias. Try to look at it from a broader perspective will ya!

stmarc32:

@cap28 Don't worry you will always have knuckleheads like Morpheus who refuse to acknowledge that everything happening now is history repeating itself ,   only difference now is that the puppet controlling the guns and bombs has a black face

bro ive given up on morpheus he's beyond help

i dont know if you've heard of this guy Dr Cornell West -  an african american intellectual, - he actually describes Obama as a "black mascot of the white oligarchs that run wall street":


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cap28:

bro I've given up on morpheus he's beyond help

I usually don't like stooping down to your ignorant level of insults but in this instance

Kachi buruku banka shege!!

martinosi:

Hmmm look at what Nigel Farage said about the British MPs, @ 5.50 minute of this clip
sooo sooo true,

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqKdDNM7jpQ[/flash]

Yes he's absolutely right, the current coalition govt is made of upper class english men who attended Eton (an exclusive private boarding school for boys which was established for young english aristocrats ) and a mixed bag of over privileged millionaires who have never done an honest days work in their life, he is right when he says many of them (if not all of them)have no idea how ordinary people live.
David Cameron comes from an aristocratic background and his wife is the daughter of a baronet - so not exactly representative of the people who they govern but britain has always been run by a group known as "the establishment" or the elite.

To reiterate the best direction for Africa in terms of these so called "Land grabs". The resolution requires a focus by government in establishing viable long term "Industrial policies" which are geared towards building local industry and leveraging on the the 'lack thereof' of local expertise in the short term
Concerned stake holders need to pressure all parties concerned including these institutions that are "hedging" to erk out new deals.

At the most   tri partite  channels of negotiations with government, business and local stakeholder i.e. Labor, farmers, civil society and the likes need to established to move forward.

Pointing out Corporate power plays and screaming "there is fire on the mountain" is just nothing more than,  "Loud uncomfortable noise"

@Cap28 i havent heard of him but i'll check him out

@ Morpehus the rhetorical question here is if i was interested in books that only support my so called anti western ideology why would i read a book by Kissinger?

Truth of the matter is that any sort of negotiation by these puppets  we call leaders will only be beneficial to the same western corporations that put them there , Look at the Niger Delta , our government  constantly sends  troops there  to help Shell and Exxon mobil displace  land owners and fishermen,

stmarc32:

@Cap28 i havent heard of him but i'll check him out

@ Morpehus the rhetorical question here is if i was interested in books that only support my so called anti western ideology why would i read a book by Kissinger?

Truth of the matter is that any sort of negotiation by these puppets  we call leaders will only be beneficial to the same western corporations that put them there , Look at the Niger Delta , our government  constantly sends  troops there  to help Shell and Exxon mobil displace  land owners and fishermen, 

 

Ahh Kissinger - have you seen Christopher Hitchen's (a british intellectual) documentary on him?

and have you read his NSSM 200 (National Security State Memorandum 200) written in 1974 when he was Nixon's national security adviser?  In this document he recommends the use of war, famine, biological warfare and control by western nations over food supply to various third world nations with high population (nigeria was one of the ones mentioned)  IN ORDER TO REDUCE THESE COUNTRIES POPULATION.

This document was classified until 1989 when it became declassified under the freedom of information act.

by the way, dont even bother asking morpheus about kissinger because he has never heard of him

cap28:

Ahh Kissinger - have you seen Christopher Hitchen's (a british intellectual) documentary on him?

and have you read his NSSM 200 (National Security State Memorandum 200) written in 1974 when he was Nixon's national security adviser? In this document he recommends the use of war, famine, biological warfare and control by western nations over food supply to various third world nations with high population (nigeria was one of the ones mentioned) IN ORDER TO REDUCE THESE COUNTRIES POPULATION.

This document was classified until 1989 when it became declassified under the freedom of information act.

by the way, dont even bother asking morpheus about kissinger because he has never heard of him

You are greatly mistaken my dear chap. I believe na ya conspiracy theorist mama wey never here about Kissinger.

^ ^^^^

Ive always known that you were lacking in intelligence, but you have now shown me a new side to your s.tup.dity by actually going as far as referring to my mother - loser, grow up and learn to take your humiliation like a man and not like an overgrown school boy!!!

cap28:

^ ^^^^

Ive always known that you were lacking in intelligence, but you have now shown me a new side to your s.tup.dity by actually going as far as referring to my mother - loser, grow up and learn to take your humiliation like a man and not like an overgrown school boy!!!

Come on now Cap. You should be able to take what you dish out. What's all the sensitivity about. I thought you had thicker skin. Since you seem to like to engage in juvenile acts of insult slinging. I thought I might indulge you.

I like hard headed wannabe cyber Bullys. They are quite amusing. Egotistical maniacs with this unquenching desire to have the last word. Relentless conspiracy theorists in their self righteous quest to appear knowledgeable and spread their truth, yet wielding no true sense of power, authority or experience on subject matters beyond the confines and conjectures of conspiracy theory propaganda, fear mongering and dogmatic expressions by demagogues they watch on youtube all day in their 400 sqaure foot flats in the middle of London England.

Here's how I know I got you Arrow! You are still responding to my posts. Clown!Let me know when you outgrow that ever youthful mindless vigour that regretfully predisposes empty headed young folk like yourself into soaking up a heap of rubbish.

Morpheus say' Stop trying to hit me and HIT ME!"

i see you two stalwarts are still going at it in this exhilarating game of textual pugilism

@morpheus

I repeat "We do not have the right people oriented inspiring governments anywhere in Africa accountable to anybody either. Internal local capacity is lacking.
'Investments' are desirable but our history and local conditions [/b]should inform our decisions for the benefit of our people not just a handful of priviledged government officials etc. It appears bleak really.

In the light of the above statement by me in my earlier post before I saw the "Ethiopian Land Grab" posted by [b]manny4life do you not think that my fears and concerns are not mere Demagoguery to use your phrase?. Do you sincerely believe that those disinherited, disenfranchised landless Ethiopians are being ethnically cleansed because some powerful government officials have "negotiated and perhaps renegotiated" for Development or Progress. Nobody, per se is against "foreign" investments. I am actually more concerned about our internal socio-cultural dynamics and you'll agree that we cannot afford to be mindless and insensitive of our fellow citizens because the so called very "large" groups can literarily wipe them out as it is happening surreptitiously in many parts of Africa via so called "legitimately' negotiated 'development' deals. In other continents perhaps [/b]they have more 'enlightened' humane officials hence the so called 'weak' minorities of Europe, the Americas and much of Asia are thriving. I am rather surprised and puzzled that you mentioned China in this conversation in relation to our Local(Africa) developmental concerns as if both are historically similar even with "evolutionary" progression or "economic theory of life cycle of products". Please, I am not into blame games of the West etc let alone anti this or that. I am anti NGOs/ do-gooders and so called AID. My reasons are personal and not part of this discourse.
My concerns are grounded on the reality of our condition which may [b]outwardly look similar to other places in the world, where we may think that we can graft borrowed 'ideas' or "technology" transfer what ever that means but quite the opposite. We know that if technology transfer was that simple and "transferable" perhaps the story of certain parts of Africa including Nigeria will be different today despite our much vaunted human capital "capacity". Looking inwards to take thorough stock of our condition and capacity does not negate nor preclude looking outwards to acquire further knowledge which must be naturalised anyway, if it is to be useful to the society acquiring it, such as information software etc. Technology and pseudo Economic aspirations/designs on its own cannot solve all of our problems if we do not "actively" and "purposefully" participate in the process bottom up hence my concerns and the Ethiopian experience is a very sad case indeed for the victims of such high mindedness by all knowing "Government" in Africa. We have to be very afraid of our people not just the so called foreign bogeyman. Expecting active mediation or intervention by so called "Stake holders" is rather very 'optimistic' and engaging in intellectual sophistry keeping mind our local Nigerian experience. If you are a member of the large majority ethnic groups then you have nothing to fear let alone concerned about. We should be our brother/sister's keeper or protector. I believe that's what humane democracy should be about in Africa and not simplistic grafting of "economic" ideas inimical to large groups of our people because it was touted be ok elsewhere. The rest of the world and the West have since realised that China despite outward appearance of backwardness or inscrutability is a formidable competitor with very cohesive, long and local historical antecedents guiding her every stance or progress. There is no African country having that kind of historical background nor pool of ideas or knowhow to draw from. Ethiopia is in a good position to profit from her long history but somehow, I doubt that the centrist/marxist oriented Addis government have learnt anything at all from their past nor from their most recent history since Haile Selasie era to Mengistu. Well, we never learn from history anyway .
What do you sincerely think of the 'victims' in the "Ethiopian Land Grab" story bearing in mind her recent restive history. I agree that in everywhere there are winners and losers but in the case of Africa we are deliberately and quietly committing atrocities against vulnerable minorities in the name of so called "development" or "progress" negotiated by powerful larger groups. Please note the countries I mentioned earlier in my post that the internal local conditions are very volatile including Nigeria hence so called investments will not be coming anytime soon to purchase very large tracks of land no matter how desirable. I admire your optimism and trust that most of our people will do the right thing. I am in no way trying to make you to think otherwise. It's the democracy of ideas and thought . I am here to learn and exchange ideas hopefully .

^^^^
@cheikh

You above points are duly noted. The difference in view points stems from the arguement framed in reference to the deficiencies of systems in Africa ie. government, property rights, land ownership and the likes and how this would hinder such deals from benefitting the African masses versus The possibility that economic theories that have proven successful for several other developing nations could be adopted and adapted to fit within the African context in faciliating change within the economic systems in Africa and inevitably the governmental systems that run them.

Solutions could be as contoversial as encouraging and staging massive movements for change in those who run government and a hopefully enthusiasim in installing "new" visionary leaders who will be charged with the responsibilty of rebuilding the broken down systems from scratch. Shielding African economies i.e protectionism from the so called second invasion of Western hegenomy and alternatively rebuilding African economic and social institutions from grass root levels wih the help of so called i.e.NGo's,humn rights orgs and the likes or thirdly plugging into the the dynamic global economic arena with caution in the long term strategic goal of using modern day information systems, semantic and communication technologies in facilitating an equitable redistribution of wealth to reduce poverty levels on the continent and with the intentions of using these same systems to force change within government institutions.

I don't need to tell you which option I am for now do I. 

Identifiying a problem and repeating its deficiencies is only the first stage in trying to find solutions to solving it.

The so-called African leaders could have even sold off their entire country's land and then signed a lease of 99 years to remain on the land after which the citizens of the country will be evicted or sign another leasehold at the rate of the new owners. MY PEOPLE, PLEASE THINK OH!

Please see attached.

A better articulated response on i"multiple models" regarding industrializing the Agric sector in Nigeria and generally across Africa in the local sense and comparing incorporation of such ideas with other developing countries that have adoptad and adapted several policies including FDI possibilities.

I swear I didn't here a word of " evil empires sneeking into the country". Read my brothers. Read!

Kola by the way is a good friend of mine. Kudo's bro.

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