pleep:


btw guys how do you post videos on this site so that the video shows up on the Nairaland screen?

Try this bro. Thank Isale_gan2 for the info. I only copied it. Welcome to the discussion.

syntax for embedding videos?


Here's a Youtube link

Click Insert Image ikon: [flash=200,200][/flash]

Then, place the link address in the center

Remove "w-a-t-c-h-?"

Remove "=" and replace with "/"

You can adjust the screen size from 200,200 to maybe 500,420.

here is my sample video Here is yours

[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pUAnrVWUkk[/flash] [flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFl6HUh6yKI[/flash]

I dont normally listen to Al Jazeera but here is another v interesting debate about the ongoing land grab in africa, debated from various perspectives:

[flash=300,300]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnoxL_NWuRA[/flash]


[flash=300,300]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqmEb8SvNe4&feature/relmfu[/flash]

cap28:

I dont normally listen to Al Jazeera but here is another v interesting debate about the ongoing land grab in africa, debated from various perspectives:

[flash=300,300]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnoxL_NWuRA[/flash]


[flash=300,300]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqmEb8SvNe4&feature/relmfu[/flash]

Love the way Riz moderated the discussion. the grievances have been highlighted by stakeholders concerned. The central issue is a repeat of what all those in support of this idea have been saying i.e. the process needs to transparent, governments need to be held accountable and its win win points need to highlighted and if necessary readjustments.

I have continued to suggest that the negotiations need to center on a transfer of technical know how and expertise to local industry over the long term to promote sustainability and this point needs to be stressed to government by stake holders concerned. Folding your hand and shouting neo colonialist aint no progress at all.

Ps. I am really weary of NGO's who come with their holier than though, save Africa mentality into Africa. These often "western liberal graduates" seem to cause more havoc in the name of promoting peoples rights and I am surpirsed no one ever complains or highlights that most of them bring these leftist ideologies that do not take into account the cultura aspects of African culture. Wonder how that aint a formof neo colonialism and meddling in the Affairs of Africa.
Hmmmmm

@OP

There is nothing wrong in 'honest' transparent investments anywhere but somehow some of us seem to be holding the classical 'economics' text books too close to our chests for our own good without critical introspection of our  local conditions. We have so much unfinished business in Africa that using only classical economic interpretations as guides to confront our problems are nothing but recipe for future restive societies in permanent flux. Botswana was or still is touted as a beacon but the victims of such so called success are the Khoisan because they have no political(numbers) leverage but had to depend on international(foreign) campaigns and Lawyers to help prosecute their legitimate legal/land cases against a typical African government beholden to foreign investment interests but couched in "Development" narrative. If all was well with us, the economic interpretation of Morpheus24, Ekt Bear, and cautionary economic views of Kilode?! will be very welcomed anywhere but the reality of our state of being is sickening indeed. Watch out for future wars in South Sudan and other places in the not too distant future. The human relationship to Land in Africa is like no other place on the planet. It has been our greatest resource and protector against wanton destruction and wretchedness pervasive elsewhere but for aggressive foreign incursions into Africa. We are truly in danger again except this time, it appears 'legitimate, legal, 'equitable' negotiated investments. Zimbabwe, South Africa, Namibia, Uganda and Kenya should remind us of some festering 'Unfinished' business without adding more to our 'elitist' minority inspired anti people governments. We do not have the right people oriented inspiring governments anywhere in Africa accountable to anybody either. Internal local capacity is lacking. Nigeria comes close to having a local capacity by default because of the large ethnic groups counterbalancing each other. In other words, there is a balance of terror which most other Countries do not have hence my fear and cautiousness. 'Investments' are desirable but our history and local conditions should inform our decisions for the benefit of our people not just a handful of priviledged government officials etc. It appears bleak really.

cheikh:

@OP

There is nothing wrong in 'honest' transparent investments anywhere but somehow some of us seem to be holding the classical 'economics' text books too close to our chests for our own good without critical introspection of our  local conditions. We have so much unfinished business in Africa that using only classical economic interpretations as guides to confront our problems are nothing but recipe for future restive societies in permanent flux. Botswana was or still is touted as a beacon but the victims of such so called success are the Khoisan because they have no political(numbers) leverage but had to depend on international(foreign) campaigns and Lawyers to help prosecute their legitimate legal/land cases against a typical African government beholden to foreign investment interests but couched in "Development" narrative.

I respect your points but as Africans we are yet to answer the central question of a vision and perspective as to what are our aspirations are for our economic, political and social developmental agendas as we march forward alongside other nations of this world.

Too long have we sat around on forums and tv talk shows arguing about how much negatively influenced we are on borrowed systems from western societies and how this does not fit in with who we are and what our goals are. Yet there is no consensus on who we are or what we represent or what our goals are as a people, as nations or as a continent. The unfinished business you are alluding to stems from this central unanswered question. It facilitates our tribalist, selfish, greedy agendas. it represents the darkest natures of our beings in the human condition we grapple with and are yet to come to a common consensus and move forward with. We are quick to point out the deficiencies of others  systems such as capitalism structures, socialist paradigms and communist alignments still do not recognise the progress in terms of the human condition variants of this system has offered to human beings, We refuse to find balance within acknowledign the good and evils of  these systems and how elements of such systems may work for us.

Most societies have moved through the same patterns and stages we find ourselves in today. I dare say they are way ahead of us. In terms of economics movements from hunter gatherers to Farming to pastoral societies to the revolutionary industrial stage which brought urbanizaton to the information and now to the semantic stages of development. In terms of politics movements from dictatorships,colonailism, monarchies and now slightly better systems of democracies. In terms of society movements from the barbaric cavement isolationism to cooperative civil society clusters that protect dignity and fundamental human rights.

I ask again, what do we want? is it development? is it to progress?. If so then in what way, through what system, what structures. Any man made system will always flaws and have people who loose out as a result or advancement. The balance is embedded in recognizing and indulging in the philosphies of subject matters such as utililatrism or indvidual rights and freedoms of where debates about the sacrfice of the few for the progress of the many versus the rights to life and to own ones self are critically analyzed. A case in point is the khoisan of botswana you bring up where their human rights seem to be violated in the arguement for urbanization and protection of the enviroment. These are collisions that are unavoidable in the matters that concern progressing and developing otherwise what is the point?

cheikh:


If all was well with us, the economic interpretation of Morpheus24, Ekt Bear, and cautionary economic views of Kilode?! will be very welcomed anywhere but the reality of our state of being is sickening indeed. Watch out for future wars in South Sudan and other places in the not too distant future. The human relationship to Land in Africa is like no other place on the planet. It has been our greatest resource and protector against wanton destruction and wretchedness pervasive elsewhere but for aggressive foreign incursions into Africa. We are truly in danger again except this time, it appears 'legitimate, legal, 'equitable' negotiated investments. Zimbabwe, South Africa, Namibia, Uganda and Kenya should remind us of some festering 'Unfinished' business without adding more to our 'elitist' minority inspired anti people governments. We do not have the right people oriented inspiring governments anywhere in Africa accountable to anybody either. Internal local capacity is lacking. Nigeria comes close to having a local capacity by default because of the large ethnic groups counterbalancing each other. In other words, there is a balance of terror which most other Countries do not have hence my fear and cautiousness. 'Investments' are desirable but our history and local conditions should inform our decisions for the benefit of our people not just a handful of priviledged government officials etc. It appears bleak really.

I agree with the bolded points and assert that I am more optimistic in this day and age because of the era we live in and how it has transformed the way information is diseminated and used. The same information heralded by the so called powers that be is being used to hinder back room deals and closed session negotiations. My outlook for Africa is very much more optimistic and believe that the power of evolutionary systems will change the narrative of the continent in the next 50 years so let the deals come and let us confront them with skeptism and caution in that this is the only way forward to negotiating an renegotiating better conditions for Africa.

Again sitting back and creating Demagoguery statements is self defeating in the long run. It doesn't really say or solve much of the problem at hand but is simply a way to exarcebate up till its tipping piont hoping that a REVOLUTION of sorts will cause drastic change for the better.

Time and time again, History proves these individuals wrong and the only visible and progressive change that happens, occurs in the state of evolutionary and not revolutionary thinking.

Iknow i am blabbing but had to get that off my chest. Whew!!

The Ghanaian commentator made a very valid point - he said that  democracy is non existent in africa, as aresult there is no accounatability, no transparency and western multinationals are free to operate with impunity.  This is not the first time our leaders have opened up the country for foreigners to come in and short change us and it definitely wont be the last.

There is no african leader (with the exception of Gadaffi) that is capable of negotiating any land sale that would benefit the indigenous people and there is no point pretending as if that is not the case.  Here in Nigeria Shell, Chevron and other IOCs have caused  massive environmental devastation, failed to provide infrastructure for local commmunities or compensation for displaced fishermen and even colluded with the nigerian govt to have protesters and community leaders imprisoned, tortured and even killed (Ken Saro Wiwa) therefore for any person to think that the nigerian govt  will suddenly make a u turn and start becoming accountable to their own people, i say to that person - you are living in cloud cuckoo land - keep dreaming!!!

The people of Madagascar who are smarter than the average africans understood the score and took matters into their own hands by overthrowing a corrupt puppet who decided to sell off 50% of their arable land to a south korean corporation - that is the way it should be done - you dont just sit around talking crap hoping that these foreigners and their collaborators  who have done nothing but cheat you for centuries will suddenly turn over a new leaf.

You can spout all the economic theories in this world but if you are incapable of making basic common sense decisions then you just simply look like a fool - this is why i say our people are onlly good at regurgitating academic theories but are totally clueless about making common sense and practical decisions - you dont have to be an economist to understand that it is not a good idea to give out huge tracts of arable land to foreigners and place yourself ina  totally vulnerable and dependant position in respect of food supply.

It is nothign short of insanity to sell off this very land to the same people who have done nothing but use, abuse, cheat and exploit you - when are our people going to awake from their comatose state?

The executive director of the Oakland Institute gives a clearer picture of what these foreign investors are really doing:


[flash=300,300]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntkG_TbRypA&feature/related[/flash]

The position is made even clearer here:

[flash=300,300]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SmtqLc7NsU[/flash]

An allegory of sorts for the intellectually inclined. Malcom x was regarded as the 'backbone' of his people. The 'manhood" of his nation who would take no nonsense for the colonialist imperial forces of his oppressors so much so that the solution to the problem for his nation was to deviate, separate for it was impossible to find an identity under the clout of their opressor. The solution was to reject every system, mannersism, socialism and lifestyle of his oppressor in so far as it was entirely opposite to the aspirations of his people. A revolution was necessary to enact change. In the end Malcom becomes a victim of his own rhetoric, participants in his revolution take his life. He failed in this attempt because he lacked the insight into the human condition.  the force that drives wants,power and needs are insatiable regardless of who holds them.  I repeat regardless of "WHO' excercises them.

Revolution will always be a short term insight of an attempt to balance an "unbalancable" equation. It creates solutions that are born out of hightened states of tension and distrust. It diseminates demagougery rhetoric and in the end will always  return to an unbalanced state of things because of the element of the human condition. The chips seem to fall back into place with so called desirable transfers of power but some how the structures remain the same.

How is  an "incompetent" government structure charged with the responsibility of empowering its people via giving them the ability to maximize output on arable land supposed to solve the problem of empowering them without exercising all the possible means of power to empower them.

How do you develop or transfer the technologies that are necessary to equip these local farmers with the short term goal of producing food for local consumption,the long term goal of feeding an ever growing national and continental population and a translation of  excess produciton for possible exportation exchange value?

HOW! HOW HOW!

I have heard empower the local farmers. In what way? NGO's like "Grain" bringing knowledge to the poor farmers . Right right. Thats brilliant. These mofo's have ben around Africa for over 50 years. I don't see the results of the miracle they are perfomring on the continent,your usually 'save the world" gestures of sympathy.

The damn government can't translate resources into know how, Don't know how to translate or take advantage of the man power or know how to develop these lands all in the face of overwhelming access to technologies that can be exchanged . No one seems to ever give any concrete answers.

^^^

i really dont like getting into debates with you because we do not sing from the same hymn sheet but i will respond to you just this once -

first of all Malcolm X was not a separatist - he was all about acheiving justice and equality - NOT separation, he was cut down prematurely by a govt that simply was not willing to allow a black messiah to arise in the black community and equip its people with knowledge and wisdom.  Malcolm actually revised his views on race when he went to Mecca where he saw white and black muslims praying, eating and socialising together so i dont know how you have come to the conclusion that "he lacked insight into the human condition".
His original revolutionary views were however, very justified and he (along with other african american leaders) played an invaluable role in bringing about change in  white supremacist america, these changes came about in the form of civil rights legislation and affirmative action among many other changes which blacks in america continue to benefit from till today.

Yes, wants, power and needs can be insatiable but thats why we have checks and balances in society to prevent or at least limit them - if not we begin to sink into  anarchy and oppression, this is what so called democratic systems are all about.  Western nations like to pride themselves on how "democratic" they are therefore it is the duty of people who are affected by their actions to hold them accountable to those tenets that they claim to uphold.

Revolution is  not a short term method of correcting oppression and tyranny as was demonstrated in the case of the french revolution - another example is the  american war of independence which was a revolutionary war fought by british settlers in order to throw  off the shackles of british monarchical tyranny - i think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who would agree that the american settlers were better off living under the tyranny of british colonial rule.

As i mentioned to you earlier - inviting foreign investors into your country and selling them huge tracts of land at rock bottom prices does absolutely nothign to improve the well being of the host country or the indigenous people, if anything it worsens the economic conditions of the already impoverished farmers who are forced off their land without compensation and forced to work on land they previously owned  for their new foreign masters on starvation wages.

As i said earlier the best way to encourage agricultural investment is for africfan govts to invest in their own farmers - plough money into the locals, invite in foreigners to teach locals how to practice mechanised farming - to me that makes much more sense than just selling off the bulk of your most fertile land to foreigners.

As has been pointed out by people who are more knowledgeable on this issue,there is no evidence so far that the host nation has benefitted from these kind of projects, be it in terms of technological transfer, job opportunities or even food supply so why are you still holding on to this beleif that these land sales are going to yield all the supposed goodies promised by these investors?

The reason that you dont see the results of NGO's like Grain is because they are small charities, largely ignored by african govts and who do not have access to the huge budgets available to these huge multinationals and agribusinesses, furthermore 9 times out of 10 their efforts to effect changes in govt policy are simply blocked or ignored by corrupt african rulers who prefer to line their pockets with quick and easy money and that is the way it will stay until these types of corrupt rulers are removed from office.

the multinational corporations are not interested in trransferring their technology to african farmers neither are they interested in enablign africans to become self sufficient what they want is for africans to be perpetually  dependant on them for food supply and that is what is unfolding before our very eyes, so sit back and enjoy the ride.

cap28:

^^^

i really dont like getting into debates with you because we do not sing from the same hymn sheet but i will respond to you just this once -

You don't have to clarify that for me. That has been fully established.

cap28:


first of all Malcolm X was not a separatist - he was all about acheiving justice and equality - NOT separation, he was cut down prematurely by a govt that simply was not willing to allow a black messiah to arise in the black community and equip its people with knowledge and wisdom.  Malcolm actually revised his views on race when he went to Mecca where he saw white and black muslims praying, eating and socialising together so i dont know how you have come to the conclusion that "he lacked insight into the human condition".

I really don't want to debate this with you either as you are predisposed to believe I don't know what I am talking about. Malcolm X was a seperatist. His early teachesand references promoted this ideology. When Malcolm X became disillusioned with the group he had fought tirelessly to advance, he journeyed to mecca and came back with a fresh insight into race matters. This was not his first journey outside of the continent nor his encounter with muslims of different colors so it cannot be excused that some how his eating and drinking with muslims of different colors changed his frame of reference.

The reference to his lack of insight stems from his eventual epiphany of this very condition.

cap28:


His original revolutionary views were however, very justified and he (along with other african american leaders) played an invaluable role in bringing about change in  white supremacist america, these changes came about in the form of civil rights legislation and affirmative action among many other changes which blacks in america continue to benefit from till today.

There is no disagreement with the above referenced. If your response is based on an assumption that I believe Malcolm and indeed the nation of islam's technics were not instrumental in exerting change then you assume wrong. They were in my opinon a necessary evil in as far as they understood the limitations of their chosen technic in realizing that their stance was only a portion in the overall goal of truly balancing out an unbalanced equation. Malcolm understood and verified this aftewards

cap28:


Yes, wants, power and needs can be insatiable but thats why we have checks and balances in society to prevent or at least limit them - if not we begin to sink into  anarchy and oppression, this is what so called democratic systems are all about.  Western nations like to pride themselves on how "democratic" they are therefore it is the duty of people who are affected by their actions to hold them accountable to those tenets that they claim to uphold.

I agree with this

cap28:


Revolution is  not a short term method of correcting oppression and tyranny as was demonstrated in the case of the french revolution - another example is the  american war of independence which was a revolutionary war fought by british settlers in order to throw  off the shackles of british monarchical tyranny - i think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who would agree that the american settlers were better off living under the tyranny of british colonial rule.

The french and American revolutions exemplify exactly what I am referencing to. The motives of both revolutions was a bitter battle between power(aristocracy) and the lesser man. For all its supposed progress it is strange how these cycles seem to repeat themselves even now within these same nations. The same battle being fought and revolutions reigniting themselves leaving the real factors that ahve advanced these societies at bay.  I leave you to ponder on what those are.

cap28:


As i mentioned to you earlier - inviting foreign investors into your country and selling them huge tracts of land at rock bottom prices does absolutely nothign to improve the well being of the host country or the indigenous people, if anything it worsens the economic conditions of the already impoverished farmers who are forced off their land without compensation and forced to work on land they previously owned  for their new foreign masters on starvation wages.

The problem has been identified and so eloquently reiterated by stakeholders, institutions and new anchors concerned. Now what?

cap28:


As i said earlier the best way to encourage agricultural investment is for africfan govts to invest in their own farmers - plough money into the locals, invite in foreigners to teach locals how to practice mechanised farming - to me that makes much more sense than just selling off the bulk of your most fertile land to foreigners.

The loops hole in your solution are related to the repeated problem of the human condition. Do you expect the foreigners to exchange that valuable knowledge  for salaries or one time lump sum payments. Why would they do that? Whats the gain?Its not like you are going to figure out how to maxmize that output on the land any short time soon.

Secondly,  government in Africa are so confused runing around with like chickens with their heads cut off that they are unable to allocater resources to programs or agendas that have real future value. They are busy trying to urbanize to keep up with the Jones' and have no real platforms where real expert indigenous experts are called upon to discuss, rally and implement solutions. It takes outside individuals like klaus schwab and  think tank institutions like the World bank and institutions in oakland to raise the alarm.

cap28:


As has been pointed out by people who are more knowledgeable on this issue,there is no evidence so far that the host nation has benefitted from these kind of projects, be it in terms of technological transfer, job opportunities or even food supply so why are you still holding on to this beleif that these land sales are going to yield all the supposed goodies promised by these investors?

cap28:


The reason that you dont see the results of NGO's like Grain is because they are small charities, largely ignored by african govts and who do not have access to the huge budgets available to these huge multinationals and agribusinesses, furthermore 9 times out of 10 their efforts to effect changes in govt policy are simply blocked or ignored by corrupt african rulers who prefer to line their pockets with quick and easy money and that is the way it will stay until these types of corrupt rulers are removed from office.

After they are removed from office then who will take charge. A fine solution.

cap28:


the multinational corporations are not interested in trransferring their technology to african farmers neither are they interested in enablign africans to become self sufficient what they want is for africans to be perpetually  dependant on them for food supply and that is what is unfolding before our very eyes, so sit back and enjoy the ride.

Strange. Its not like you are doing anything substantial about the problem either?

PS forgive my grammar I think faster than I type

morpheus24:

The french and American revolutions exemplify exactly what I am referencing to. The motives of both revolutions was a bitter battle between power(aristocracy) and the lesser man. For all its supposed progress it is strange how these cycles seem to repeat themselves even now within these same nations. The same battle being fought and revolutions reigniting themselves leaving the real factors that ahve advanced these societies at bay.  I leave you to ponder on what those are.

interesting  - so wise one what would have been your advice to the french and americans  - to remain under the heel of the french and british aristocracy?

The loops hole in your solution are related to the repeated problem of the human condition. Do you expect the foreigners to exchange that valuable knowledge  for salaries or one time lump sum payments. Why would they do that? Whats the gain?Its not like you are going to figure out how to maxmize that output on the land any short time soon.

Right - so the best way to avoid being exploited is to simply hand over the bulk of your most fertile land for a pittance - thanks Einstein - i knew i'd learn something new from you today

Secondly,  government in Africa are so confused runing around with like chickens with their heads cut off that they are unable to allocater resources to programs or agendas that have real future value. They are busy trying to urbanize to keep up with the Jones' and have no real platforms where real expert indigenous experts are called upon to discuss, rally and implement solutions. It takes outside individuals like klaus schwab and  think tank institutions like the World bank and institutions in oakland to raise the alarm.

Excuses excuses, there are many technocrats who have been insiders to the nigerian govt who are far more knowledgeable than you about economics and international trade agreements, you want to tell me that people like Okonjo Iweala (world bank stooge) is "confused and is running around like a headless chicken?" no these people know very well what they are doing they simply LACK THE DESIRE TO DO THE RIGHT THING, by the way the world bank did not RAISE the alarm as they have a vested interest in seeing africa remain dependant on external aid, the alarm was raised by the same NGOs that you have been blindly criticising!!!!(oakland, Grain et al)

After they are removed from office then who will take charge. A fine solution.

Strange. Its not like you are doing anything substantial about the problem either?

PS forgive my grammar I think faster than I type

Oh i get it lets leave the very people who have FAILED nigeria for the past 51 years in office - that sounds like a great solution - perhaps you should slow down on typing so fast and spend more time thinking about what you are about to put down.

^^^
just thought id add this - technological transfer from western nations to africa is possilbe if properly negotiated - america transfers advanced technology to china under trade agreements very favourable to china - the chinese make it a condition of many of their trade agreements that the americans transfer advanced technology to them in exchange for american access to chinese markets - so it can be done IF THE HOST NATION HAS THE WILL TO DO SO - so far we are yet to see that happen in most african nations.

Morpheus24

I ask again, what do we want? is it development? is it to progress?. If so then in what way, through what system, what structures. Any man made system will always flaws and have people who loose out as a result or advancement. The balance is embedded in recognizing and indulging in the philosphies of subject matters such as utililatrism or indvidual rights and freedoms of  where debates about the sacrfice of the few for the progress of the many versus the rights to life and to own ones self are critically analyzed. A case in point is the khoisan of botswana you bring up where their human rights seem to be violated in the arguement for urbanization and protection of the enviroment. These are collisions that are unavoidable in the matters that concern progressing and developing otherwise what is the point?

@Morpheus ^^ thanks for your write up but you'll agree with me that of all African countries Nigeria perhaps comes close to having the greatest potential to actually create or design and purposefully develop viable systems that perhaps may meet our goals of socio-economic development if we so desire or put our collective heads together given our inherent human capital. It does not necessarily follow that whenever we think  "development" or "Progress" it has to mimic something else wholesale. My fears are based on the fact that we have never really tried to look "inwards" at all but mimic others unquestionably. Looking inwards does not preclude exchange of ideas with others. As it is now we are very vulnerable because we have never been able to forge a healthy viable national culture which informs our actions such as sanctions and reward systems etc. Presently, we are hoping that "evolutionary" process will help us out without our active intervention. Whereas, economic "development" or "progress" maybe very laudable and desirable goals, can we ever overlook the social/psychic health of our society? With the little unmediated development we've witnessed so far in our domain(Nigeria), are we collectively satisfied with the impact on our socio-cultural[b]values[/b] especially as we are loosing sight of what's right or wrong but money etc. Desire for materialism or money per se is not bad but must be seated on a bed rock of positive value system pervasive in society which every one of us can sincerely plug in to like it is in those other societies we mimic. Other strong nations have an identifiable national culture and expectations. Can we afford to let mere "evolutionary" process take its cause?
Is it not rather inhumane if in the mad rush or quest for "development" or "progress" we sacrifice the tiny minority amongst us because that happens also in some places. I believe the African way of dialogue until we achieve a consensus is also a viable alternative than the "elitist" govt of Botswana method which was later found to be wrong at end by the Courts leaving bad blood everywhere hence there are on going endless wars in Africa. Your economic viewpoint in contemporary climate and times is the norm and very suitable for the prevailing market place of the Europe and the Americas. Africa is not quite a full equal member of that market place. Your economic analyses and viewpoint are on point but that kind of mind set and know how will be appropriate for a western market sphere where there are laws and accountability as given or norms instead of as exceptions .

cap28:

^^^
just thought id add this - technological transfer from western nations to africa is possilbe if properly negotiated - america transfers advanced technology to china under trade agreements very favourable to china - the chinese make it a condition of many of their trade agreements that the americans transfer advanced technology to them in exchange for american access to chinese markets - so it can be done IF THE HOST NATION HAS THE WILL TO DO SO - so far we are yet to see that happen in most african nations.  

^^^^
I have already pointed this out in previous posts on this thread. You just don't get it do you.

Morpheus says " You've made the choice. Now you have to understand it"

cap28:

interesting - so wise one what would have been your advice to the french and americans - to remain under the heel of the french and british aristocracy?

cap28:


Right - so the best way to avoid being exploited is to simply hand over the bulk of your most fertile land for a pittance - thanks Einstein - i knew i'd learn something new from you today

hmmm

cap28:


Excuses excuses, there are many technocrats who have been insiders to the nigerian govt who are far more knowledgeable than you about economics and international trade agreements, you want to tell me that people like Okonjo Iweala (world bank stooge) is "confused and is running around like a headless chicken?" no these people know very well what they are doing they simply LACK THE DESIRE TO DO THE RIGHT THING, by the way the world bank did not RAISE the alarm as they have a vested interest in seeing africa remain dependant on external aid, the alarm was raised by the same NGOs that you have been blindly criticising!!!!(oakland, Grain et al)

You don't say!

cap28:


Oh i get it lets leave the very people who have FAILED nigeria for the past 51 years in office - that sounds like a great solution -

I never said that. You did?

morpheus24:

^^^^
I have already pointed this out in previous posts on this thread. You just don't get it do you.

Morpheus says " You've made the choice. Now you have to understand it"

Where did  you point this out in previous threads?

What dont i get?

You like to pretend as if you know anything about this issue, your stance is predicated on repeating capitalist mantras and right wing economic theory that you dont fully understand, do you not understand that unlike the hedge funds, multinational corporations and ivy league universities who stand to reap huge returns on their investments africans stand to gain absolutely nothing from these type of one sided deals.

If you were aware that negotiation is the key to securing a fair deal for african nations why ask this:

morpheus24:

The loops hole in your solution are related to the repeated problem of the human condition. Do you expect the foreigners to exchange that valuable knowledge  for salaries or one time lump sum payments. Why would they do that? Whats the gain?Its not like you are going to figure out how to maxmize that output on the land any short time soon.

you would do so much better if you learnt to accept that you dont know what the hell you are talking about.

Really sad.

cap28:

^^^^

the multinational corporations are not interested in transferring their technology to african farmers [/b]neither are they interested in enablign africans to become self sufficient what they want is for [b]africans to be perpetually  dependant on them for food supply and that is what is unfolding before our very eyes, so sit back and enjoy the ride.

The bold is the key right there, sometimes i wonder what world some people live in.

Why cant nigerians be like the chinese and at least steal the right thing "Technology" lol

cap28:

Where did  you point this out in previous threads?

What dont i get?

You like to pretend as if you know anything about this issue, your stance is predicated on repeating capitalist mantras and right wing economic theory that you dont fully understand, do you not understand that unlike the hedge funds, multinational corporations and ivy league universities who stand to reap huge returns on their investments africans stand to gain absolutely nothing from these type of one sided deals.

If you were aware that negotiation is the key to securing a fair deal for african nations why ask this:

you would do so much better if you learnt to accept that you dont know what the hell you are talking about.

ROFLAMO!!! Cap28 some people i thick in the head "have mercy on them"

A White guy told me in Lagos last Year when i asked him why has he stayed in Nigeria for long

He said "My loyalty cant be bought, but it can be rented!!!"

That statement should sum it up for all of them!!! lol

^^^^^



bros i tire for some people on this site honestly

@ cap28 the only thing i'd disagree with u on here is the thought of negotiating with these western corporations, They are only interested in looting and exploiting whatever is left of africa.

stmarc32:

@ cap28 the only thing i'd disagree with u on here is the thought of negotiating with these western corporations, They are only interested in looting and exploiting whatever is left of africa.

the only reason i raised the issue of negotiation was for the purpose of giving these foreign investors the benefit of the doubt, but i know that our govts simply havent even got the guts to negotiate with these foreigners, they are too cowardly, too dependant and too selfish to care about the implications of their actions. Besides the majority of them rely on western military aid to keep themselves in power, if i am a western nation and i provide you with military aid worth $1 billion dollars a year, who are you to dictate to me the terms of a land purchse in your country? It is too late, we are firmly in their grasp and all we the people can do is resort to collective action to oust the corrupt govts we have in power - this is what the people of madagascar did when their govt sold 50% of their arable land to south korean corporation Daewoo.

cap28:

Where did  you point this out in previous threads?

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-688389.0.html

Note the date as well, clown!!

cap28:


You like to pretend as if you know anything about this issue, your stance is predicated on repeating capitalist mantras and right wing economic theory that you dont fully understand, do you not understand that unlike the hedge funds, multinational corporations and ivy league universities who stand to reap huge returns on their investments africans stand to gain absolutely nothing from these type of one sided deals.

If you were aware that negotiation is the key to securing a fair deal for african nations why ask this:

you would do so much better if you learnt to accept that you dont know what the hell you are talking about.

Ha!  ha ha!.  Boy Please! your weak minded followers can fall for all that demagougery rhetoric. Try to school yourself on other discplines as well instead of sticking your head in those Anti-western propaganda books

Keep deluding yourself about yourself.

^^^

the problem with dumb africans like yourself is that you are so steeped in ignorance that it will take a miracle to get you out of your stupor, sheeple like you thoroughly deserve what is coming, thanks to the likes of Goodluck Jonathan and other african traitors the future is looking very bleak for the african continent, have fun and i hope you enjoy your coming enslavement.

cap28:

^^^

the problem with dumb africans like yourself is that you are so steeped in ignorance that it will take a miracle to get you out of your stupor, sheeple like you thoroughly deserve what is coming, thanks to the likes of Goodluck Jonathan and other african traitors the future is looking very bleak for the african continent, have fun and i hope you enjoy your coming enslavement.

Oh yeah. Remind your followers again to click on that attachment and see where at the very beginning of these drawn out arguements I had clearly indicated "Negotiations" relative to China's method as the key component for fully accepting any land deals.

The future for Africa is shinning as bright as ever and we will not allow Alarmist short sighted ignorant neanderthals like yourself keep us stuck in the dark past.

"Yesterdays woes are not an absolute predictor of tomorrow's future. I stand on the other side of the line drawn and will hold fort come rain or shine."_ An original by Morpheus24

^^^^^

if you think nigeria which has sold out its own people for close to 51 years now has the same bargaining power as an up and coming superpower like china - you really do need to have your head examined - like i said - enjoy your coming enslavement

cap28:

^^^^^

if you think nigeria which has sold out its own people for close to 51 years now has the same bargaining power as an up and coming superpower like china - you really do need to have your head examined - like i said - enjoy your coming enslavement

I'll be waiting patiently for that revolution you and your likes are about to ignite that  is bent on waking up the conciousness of the slumbering African populous and usher in this new fantatistic age of 'responsibile" visionary a.k.a socialist leaders who will transform Nigeria into what your version of it ought to be.

Save me a front row seat will ya. I think I'll be waiting for a while.

cheikh:

Morpheus24
@Morpheus ^^ thanks for your write up but you'll agree with me that of all African countries Nigeria perhaps comes close to having the greatest potential to actually create or design and purposefully develop viable systems that perhaps may meet our goals of socio-economic development if we so desire or put our collective heads together given our inherent human capital. It does not necessarily follow that whenever we think  "development" or "Progress" it has to mimic something else wholesale.

In terms of social and economic welfare, Technological transfers are a function of aspirations for development and progress. This we must agree upon. Other countries have acknowledged this phenomena and so should we. Technology is not an exclusive right or invention of other nations. Its part of the human genius, the strive to improve to survive and to prosper, doesn't matter what context you want to frame it in. Africa has been excluded from global trade for a long enough time so much so that we are way behind and still have many years to catch up.  These same exclusive barriers  "man made" or simply "coincidental" have excluded us from technological advancements and diffusion thath have penetrated many countries in the distant past and currently in present times. We can't continue like this. Its unsustainable. The era we live in is givng us a chance to grasp this opportunity and do what we can with it.

Social and cultural issues will always be intertwined with economic issue and it is necessary to clarify and decide which of these subject matter is the most influential

cheikh:


My fears are based on the fact that we have never really tried to look "inwards" at all but mimic others unquestionably. Looking inwards does not preclude exchange of ideas with others. As it is now we are very vulnerable because we have never been able to forge a healthy viable national culture which informs our actions such as sanctions and reward systems etc. Presently, we are hoping that "evolutionary" process will help us out without our active intervention. Whereas, economic "development" or "progress" maybe very laudable and desirable goals, can we ever overlook the social/psychic health of our society? With the little unmediated development we've witnessed so far in our domain(Nigeria), are we collectively satisfied with the impact on our socio-cultural[b]values[/b] especially as we are loosing sight of what's right or wrong but money etc. Desire for materialism or money per se is not bad but must be seated on a bed rock of positive value system pervasive in society which every one of us can sincerely plug in to like it is in those other societies we mimic. Other strong nations have an identifiable national culture and expectations. Can we afford to let mere "evolutionary" process take its cause?

The very consensus of value systems,  forging of national identities and the likes are faciliated by evolutionary processes. I can give a guzillion examples of that.

cheikh:


Is it not rather inhumane if in the mad rush or quest for "development" or "progress" we sacrifice the tiny minority amongst us because that happens also in some places. I believe the African way of dialogue until we achieve a consensus is also a viable alternative than the "elitist" govt of Botswana method which was later found to be wrong at end by the Courts leaving bad blood everywhere hence there are on going endless wars in Africa. Your economic viewpoint in contemporary climate and times is the norm and very suitable for the prevailing market place of the Europe and the Americas. Africa is not quite a full equal member of that market place. Your economic analyses and viewpoint are on point but that kind of mind set and know how will be appropriate for a western market sphere where there are laws and accountability as given or norms instead of as exceptions .

I urge you to read up on the economic theory of product life cycles. This was a process that was extremelly advantageous to China. These theories are not exclusive conjectures for western societies to play around with as you say but stem from deep intuitive understandings of economics given within the confines of the human condition.

Peace!!

@cap28 Don't worry you will always have knuckleheads like Morpheus who refuse to acknowledge that everything happening now is history repeating itself ,   only difference now is that the puppet controlling the guns and bombs has a black face


@ Morpheus China didn't really negotiate to get to the stage they r now, Corporate america's greed and their relentless effort to exterminate the american middleclass coz of the power they exerted over policies in the 50s made them what they r now , Read Kissingers book about China says it all.