Kobojunkie:
Ok.

The concept of being a son of God did not begin in the new testament. And there is this false notion that the people of old did not know and believe in Jesus Christ. Its not true.

tctrills:

I would list verses where God declared people in the old testament to be his sons because nothing you say is in the bible.
Exodus 4:22-23
Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord, “Israel is My son, My firstborn. So I said to you, ‘Let My son go that he may serve Me’; but you have refused to let him go. Behold, I will kill your son, your firstborn.

1 Chronicles 22:10
He shall build a house for My name, and he shall be My son and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.’

Hosea 1:10

Yet the number of the sons of Israel
Will be like the sand of the sea,
Which cannot be measured or numbered;
And in the place
Where it is said to them,
“You are not My people,”
It will be said to them,

Even before the birth of Christ, God has chosen men to be his sons including Abraham.
“You are the sons of the living God.

So, I may have missed it but which men did your verses tell you were chosen as Sons of God before Jesus Christ?

tctrills:
The concept of being a son of God did not begin in the new testament. And there is this false notion that the people of old did not know and believe in Jesus Christ. Its not true.

So which particular men, before Jesus Christ, where declared Sons of God?

Kobojunkie:
So which particular men, before Jesus Christ, where declared Sons of God?

Many in the old testament were called sons of God

Kobojunkie:
So, I may have missed it but which men did your verses tell you were chosen as Sons of God before Jesus Christ?

No Christ is the firstborn but that was not the point. You claim the men in the old testament were not sons of God and I disagree. Remember you were trying to say that Abraham is not fully saved and you said he is not a son of God

tctrills:
You are now Adams judge? It was never written that Adam was an unbeliever. You need to stop saying what you don't know. You don't know Anything about Adams life out of the garden so take it easy with him.

You seem to belittle God's judgement of Adam. God gave Adam a commandment - you eat of this tree, you die. Adam disobeyed God's commandment to him. And so Adam was condemned by God to die as promised.

Adam's judge is God - He is the one who condemned Adam. I am simply repeating here the judges verdict and sentence.

You don't seem to believe the judge was fair in His judgment and that explains why you keep suggesting God's judgment is reversible, when God never implied it could be.

tctrills:

No Christ is the firstborn but that was not the point. You claim the men in the old testament were not sons of God and I disagree. Remember you were trying to say that Abraham is not fully saved and you said he is not a son of God

Again....So, I may have missed it but which men did your verses tell you were chosen as Sons of God before Jesus Christ?

I want to know what particular men in the Old Testament were declared Sons of God

tctrills:
Many in the old testament were called sons of God

Name them

tctrills:
Many in the old testament were called sons of God

What were there names?

Kobojunkie:
What were there names?

I gave you the example of Solomon and the house of Isreal did you not read the verses i sent?
1 Chronicles 22:10
Verse Concepts
He shall build a house for My name, and he shall be My son and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever

Kobojunkie:
You seem to belittle God's judgement of Adam. God gave Adam a commandment - you eat of this tree, you die. Adam disobeyed God's commandment to him. And so Adam was condemned by God to die as promised.

Adam's judge is God - He is the one who condemned Adam. I am simply repeating here the judges verdict and sentence.

You don't seem to believe the judge was fair in His judgment and that explains why you keep suggesting God's judgment is reversible, when God never implied it could be.

Even you have disobeyed God So what is your point. God's verdict for all sin is death. You are no different from Adam.
And yes, Jesus Christ came to reverse the death Judgment from mankind.
You expect God's judgment for Adam but you don't expect the same for yourself when you have also sinned? Does it even make sense?

Kobojunkie:
You seem to belittle God's judgement of Adam. God gave Adam a commandment - you eat of this tree, you die. Adam disobeyed God's commandment to him. And so Adam was condemned by God to die as promised.

Adam's judge is God - He is the one who condemned Adam. I am simply repeating here the judges verdict and sentence.

You don't seem to believe the judge was fair in His judgment and that explains why you keep suggesting God's judgment is reversible, when God never implied it could be.

Adam sinned, you too sin. The wages of all sin is death that is God's verdict. But you can be saved from the verdict why not the same for Adam. Remember, God did not condemn only Adam, he condemned every human being to death because of Adam so if you expect resurrection, why not Adam since you both had the very same judgment.

tctrills:
I gave you the example of Solomon and the house of Isreal did you not read the verses i sent?

Solomon was called a Son of God? Where?

You know Solomon is believed to have died an idol worshipper, right?

The house of Israel is a Son of God or all Israelites are Sons of God, which one?

tctrills:

Even you have disobeyed God So what is your point. God's verdict for all sin is death. You are no different from Adam.
And yes, Jesus Christ came to reverse the death Judgment from mankind.
You expect God's judgment for Adam but you don't expect the same for yourself when you have also sinned? Does it even make sense?

I have never disobeyed any of God's laws like the one Adam disobeyed.

God did not give to us any laws such as the one He gave to Adam. So to even compare Adam to individuals out there, means you don't even understand what truly took place and why God condemned Him so.

tctrills:

Adam sinned, you too sin. The wages of all sin is death that is God's verdict. But you can be saved from the verdict why not the same for Adam. Remember, God did not condemn only Adam, he condemned every human being to death because of Adam so if you expect resurrection, why not Adam since you both had the very same judgment.

The wages of all sins is not Death. The wages of Adam's sin was Death which is what God served Him on Genesis 3 vs.... honestly, I think this horse has been beaten to death by me at this point.

Kobojunkie:
The wages of all sins is not Death. The wages of Adam's sin was Death which is what God served Him on Genesis 3 vs.... honestly, I think this horse has been beaten to death by me at this point.

My Bible teaches the wages of sin is death. Maybe you should write your own bible. You seem to have a different opinion fromy the holy bible. While you are entitled to your opinion, I prefer to believe the word of God over your personal opinions

Kobojunkie:
I have never disobeyed any of God's laws like the one Adam disobeyed.

God did not give to us any laws such as the one He gave to Adam. So to even compare Adam to individuals out there, means you don't even understand what truly took place and why God condemned Him so.

You mean your sins are less than Adams? You are trying to belittle your sins and magnify that of Adam. Adam ate a fruit, I don't know you but I am sure you have done much worse. All sins are disobedience to God. You are not better than Adam.
Adam sinned without the knowledge of Good and evil but you have a full knowledge. You are a greater sinner but God does forgive you yet you believe he would never forgive Adam. God never revealed this. Who are you to stand in the place of God to Judge Adam.
Adams punishment was death. Did he die? Yes he did. The word of God has been fulfilled. You. Are not God to decide how long his punishment should last. And the wages of all sins is death. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
God said all men would come forth from the grave. I guess Adam is a man.

Kobojunkie:
Solomon was called a Son of God? Where?

You know Solomon is believed to have died an idol worshipper, right?

The house of Israel is a Son of God or all Israelites are Sons of God, which one?

This should answer your question.
1 Chronicles 28:6
He said to me, ‘Your son Solomon is the one who shall build My house and My courts; for I have chosen him to be a son to Me, and I will be a father to him.

Yes I know Solomon died an idol worshipper but I am not the one questioning the bible.

Read also 2 samuel 7
12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men

tctrills:

This should answer your question.
1 Chronicles 28:6
He said to me, ‘Your son Solomon is the one who shall build My house and My courts; for I have chosen him to be a son to Me, and I will be a father to him.

Yes I know Solomon died an idol worshipper but I am not the one questioning the bible.

Read also 2 samuel 7
12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

14 I[b] will be his father, and he shall be my son[/b]. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men

I am not questioning what is written in scripture bit questioning you who said that God named some in the Old Testament "Sons of God".

Anyways, according to the New Covenant standard set by God, a Son of God, is
● one who is born from water and from spirit - a citizen of the Kingdom of God
● Has been set free from bondage/slavery to sin - John 8 vs 31 - 34 - aka God's curse in Genesis 3 vs 16 - 19

Abraham and most all the other righteous men of Old are also to planned to become Sons of God in the future, this according to God's millennial plan for those of the Old Covenant so my guess is maybe that was what God meant there.

Kobojunkie:
I am not questioning what is written in scripture bit questioning you who said that God named some in the Old Testament "Sons of God".

Anyways, according to the New Covenant standard set by God, a Son of God, is
● one who is born from water and from spirit - a citizen of the Kingdom of God
● Has been set free from bondage/slavery to sin - John 8 vs 31 - 34 - aka God's curse in Genesis 3 vs 16 - 19

Abraham and most all the other righteous men of Old are also to planned to become Sons of God in the future, this according to God's millennial plan for those of the Old Covenant so my guess is maybe that was what God meant there.

For the first time, you are honest with your opinion. I like the fact that you said it's your guess. But then again you need to learn to use the scripture. Where did you learn that Abraham planned to become a son of God in the millennial?
Even by your definition, howe do you claim that Abraham and other men of old have not been set free from bondage?
You make lots of claims and no scriptural backing. Where did you read that Abraham is yet to be a son of God?
John 1.12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Are you saying them of old do not believe him?

Kobojunkie:
I am not questioning what is written in scripture bit questioning you who said that God named some in the Old Testament "Sons of God".

Anyways, according to the New Covenant standard set by God, a Son of God, is
● one who is born from water and from spirit - a citizen of the Kingdom of God
● Has been set free from bondage/slavery to sin - John 8 vs 31 - 34 - aka God's curse in Genesis 3 vs 16 - 19

Abraham and most all the other righteous men of Old are also to planned to become Sons of God in the future, this according to God's millennial plan for those of the Old Covenant so my guess is maybe that was what God meant there.

If you read 1 chronicles 28.6, you learn that God had already chosen Solomon to be his son. It was not about the millennial like you say. God said, I have chosen him, not I will chose him.
Remember you said Solomon died in sin, would God make a sinner to be his son? It was the righteous Solomon that was a son of God not the sinful Solomon

Kobojunkie:
I have never disobeyed any of God's laws like the one Adam disobeyed.

God did not give to us any laws such as the one He gave to Adam. So to even compare Adam to individuals out there, means you don't even understand what truly took place and why God condemned Him so.

To summarize,
You believe adam's sins are more serious than yours even though the bible never said so.
You also believe that the bodies of unbelievers vanish from the grave even though the bible never says so.
You believe only the followers of Christ would resurrect even though the bible never says so. your excuse is that the bible spoke about the sheep and goat so you assume the goats to be part of the flock of Christ.
You believe Adam cant be resurrected even though the bible never says so. Your excuse is that he committed sin even though all men commit sins. The bible said the wages of sin is death but you changed it to the wages of Adam's sin is death.
Then you believe the righteous before Christ don't need Christ to be saved.

Think about these 2 scriptures
John 3. 3 and 5
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

And
Luke 13:28

In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.

Abraham and the ancient prophets would be in the Kingdom of God so clearly, they are born again according to the Bible. Abraham would be saved through Christ whom he believed in. No one can enter the Kindom of God without Christ. salvation is open to even those that lived before Christ. Jesus died for everyone, not just those that came after him.

From reading the bible, who are those that would be thrown in hell on the last day?
Revelations 21.8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

It never said members of Christ's flock but the unbelieving. it says all liars.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me

tctrills:
I would list verses where God declared people in the old testament to be his sons because nothing you say is in the bible.
Exodus 4:22-23
Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord, “Israel is My son, My firstborn. So I said to you, ‘Let My son go that he may serve Me’; but you have refused to let him go. Behold, I will kill your son, your firstborn

That statement in Exodus 4 that you pulled out of context was in fact metaphorical description of the people of Israel by God.

21 While Moses was traveling back to Egypt, the Lord spoke to him, “When you talk to Pharaoh remember to show him all the miracles that I have given you the power to do. But I will cause Pharaoh to be very stubborn. He will not let the people go.
22 Then you should say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what the Lord says: Israel is my firstborn son.
23 And I am telling you to let my son go and worship me. If you refuse to let Israel go, then I will kill your firstborn son.’” - Exodus 4 vs 21 - 23

A firstborn son typically refers to one individual in a family but in this case, the term is used in reference to a whole nation of people, a first indication that it is meant to be figuratively processed. In that passage, anyone able to see could tell that God described the people of Israel as having the same importance that a firstborn son would have to the likes of Pharaoh whose firstborn son He, God, threatened.

Kobojunkie:
That statement in Exodus 4 that you pulled out of context was in fact metaphorical description of the people of Israel by God.
A firstborn son typically refers to one individual in a family but in this case, the term is used in reference to a whole nation of people, a first indication that it is meant to be figuratively processed. In that passage, anyone able to see could tell that God described the people of Israel as having the same importance that a firstborn son would have to the likes of Pharaoh whose firstborn son He, God, threatened.

Your personal opinion. I respect it but the word of God is not open to personal interpretation. So thanks.

And yes, a nation can be described as a firstborn. Today, the Yorubas and the Benin argue about who is the first son of their common ancestry.

One more thing, you claim that "anyone able to see could tell that God described the people of Israel as having the same importance that a firstborn son"
So are you saying that Israel has the same importance as Jesus Christ? Is that your interpretation?

The sword you people keep falling on is thinking the Tanakh belongs to the christians...it does not..it belongs to the Jews. It is for their national religion called Judaism. It was the christians who stole it and added their own ideology at the end of the Jewish one....the Jewish scriptures only ends in Malachi.....The Jews does not have a new convenant and the christians don't have an old convenant....
There is no relation between both..Even if the christians gospels were set in Israel, there are no similarities...

God is the universe itself, God is the universal consciousness...man is a spirit..

And you guys should quit interpretation g the bible as a literal or historical work. It is an oracle....