lookmangiw: I think the poster of this thread got it all wrong, i wont agree to that statement,If you say nigerian architecture in uninspiring,the first question i will throw at you is that those structures in lekki,are they not in nigeria or do you categories them too as uninspiring,if you answer in affirmative then i wont have any choice than to conclude that you are ignorant of the issue at hand.Let me add this to my post,Nigeria has great architect and they have done great designs in the past and are still doing it.The problem is that of the situation the country is currently facing.Poverty is the cause of all these.It is poverty makes people prefer to do things without following the laid down rules and standard, I'm a professional builder and i'm well learned in the construction industry and i know that problems are.

What the poster is pointing out is simply what most of us probably see or pass by on a regular basis.

I will have to go with comments by iupe, redsun and Siena on this one. I personally know of a so-called architect who drew the worse plans I've ever seen for a building with no scale measurements and wanted to charge and exhorbitant price for it - I could've done the same plans by hand for less!

I really do get tired when people say "poverty" is the problem - which kind of poverty, poverty of mind or poverty of pocket?  I don't have the privilege of spending a whole day to drive across Lagos to see some nice buildings in Lekki or on whatever estate or enclave.  The poor maintenance culture, poor building work is the real problem, otherwise how can you explain that inspiring buildings and architecture aren't dotted all over the place apart from a few enclaves?  That shouldn't be the case.  Even where there are "nice" buildings they have been tackily decorated.  Sorry but there are too many people out there with bad taste - I'm sure against better advice.

Even in the UK " inspired design" doesn't mean good taste.  Buildings in the UK have gone through a number of phases, even materials and  building methods have changed over the years.  The good thing is that today we can see buildings dating back to the Victorian and Georgian period, and there are lots of them.  There are few places in the UK where you go that you won't find a period building, if you know what you are looking for.  How many 18th or 19th century buildings can you find in good condition in Lagos much less throughout Nigeria?  Those that exist are few.

I don't want or expect to see totally Western-style buildings, but at least give me something inspiring between the two mediums, African and European or American.  It is very possible, it happens in other places, why not Nigeria?  I'm not in favour of Odiaero's beach front property - personally speaking, I wouldn't go there because that has problems of its own.

Have u ever asked urself why the Police service,Education,Power supply,infrastructure etc in this country has been so uninspiring?This is what u get when poverty ravages a nation due to corruption and lack of due process.
I am an architect and can boldly say that we have no identity(no development of our God given resources in terms of materials and construction) hence we just follow the crowd.In terms of design we are not doing badly but in acase where middle class clients don't appreciate the importance of design and prefer to pay peanuts to a young graduate or draughtsman,coupled with poor construction practises, u get a poor building.
On the other hand the bigger clients(such as government and corporate bodies) who should organise competitions to get the best out of any project prefer to sell out projects or give it to cronies who employ just anybody to execute the project.The result will be a poor structure.
At times u have dreams and ideas but the nigerian factor of 'lack of project capital','lack of construction techniques and proper structural design' coupled general apathy to planning,design and construction(which is mainly caused by lack of vision on the bigger picture) kills it.
In advanced countries, building just a Box like building will entail so much construction details it will be like a master piece.
Construction and research into local materials are areas to be devoped if there is to be any noticeable development of nigerian architecture

N101:

What the poster is pointing out is simply what most of us probably see or pass by on a regular basis.


How many 18th or 19th century buildings can you find in good condition in Lagos much less throughout Nigeria? Those that exist are few.

I don't want or expect to see totally Western-style buildings, but at least give me something inspiring between the two mediums, African and European or American. .

How many mud houses would last 200 years? Before the renaissance in Europe and even after that the general population were not building to inspire anyone, they just wanted a place to stay. In africa too our kings built inspiring local houses, many of them were destroyed by invading Colonial forces.

When you save moey over the years in building a modest apartment, the last thing on your mind would be to inspire anyone, when you build a block of flats with hard earned money and you know people would jostle to rent it, you would think little about inspiring anyone.

And for those living in the city especially lagos, mud/laterite is not even cheap.

This  is a very important subject and I am obliged to respond as an architect because we are being indicted collectively and individually.

Nigerians by their negative response are showing their usual arrogant attitude without considering the issue in greater depth, this attitude pervades all facets of our lives, be it economic, industrial, artistic, sports, etc. We want to fly before we learn how to crawl.

Nigerian Architecture is evolving naturally and progressively, it is a great misnomer and disservice to compare Nigerian Architecture to European Architecture or even Oriental Architecture which are over 2,000 years. These Architecture evolved according to the social, economic, political and artistic need of their respective societies, and these evolution is still going on even today. Nigerian Architecture on the other hand is barely 150yrs old, the first so called Modern Nigerian Architecture was brought by repatriated Brazillian slaves and they were not even professionals. The study of Architecture by our Universities is barely 50years and people expect us to rival Greek Architecture. Even the word Architecture is barely understood by the majority of our population including some very enlightened people even on Nairaland. Most people confuse the Architect with Engineer, contractor, project manager, etc, I have met only very few people who understand the real role or importance of the Architect and are ready to pay appropriately.

I laugh when people say our Residential Architecture is blocks and concrete, what else do you expects? Architecture reflects the social needs of a people and the most important factor in Nigerian architecture today is that of Security. 

1. Security against intruders ;- Armed robbers, Kidnappers, Assassins, Area Boys,  Boko Haram, etc. This is very important in our Urban Cities. Even with high barbed wired fences and all, people are still assassinated and robbed with impunity. This is responsible the prison like burglary proof surrounding our windows, door and balconies and also for the solid block interiors and exteriors of our residences.

2. Security against insects especially against Mosquitoes: - I believe this is the most serious impediment to both indigenous and modern architecture. Windows, doors and fenestration into our villages huts and buildings are kept at a minimum, barely enough to allow breathing. This is to reduce mosquitoes as much as possible as they had no mosquito nets. Even in Modern Urban residencies, accommodating both burglary proofs and mosquito nets within the same window can be architecturally frustrating.

I had always dreamt of designing spacious outdoor dining areas overlooking a swimming pool or lush gardens or Designing curtain walls by dining rooms overlooking gardens as seen in European design. But when you consider having to put in burglary proofs along the whole length of the wall, then the whole purpose is defeated.

Also our level of industrial development has to be considered when criticizing our Architecture. When virtually all the materials used in building except sand and granite  is imported, thereby pushing the cost of construction way beyond the reach of the average person, then design and aesthetic takes a back seat. At least before blaming the architects reserve some blame for the Government, the materials and metallurgical engineers, etc.

In conclusion, Architecture reflects the fears, hopes, aspiration and level of development of a people and I believe that to a large extent Nigerian Architecture reflects these.

paragonpro:
Nigerian Architecture on the other hand is barely 150yrs old, the first so called Modern Nigerian Architecture was brought by repatriated Brazillian slaves and they were not even professionals.

And this is where you 'architects' go wrong.

ezeagu:

And this is where you 'architects' go wrong.

Please oblige to educate me where we "architects go wrong"

Thanks in advance

How can Nigerian architecture be 150 years old?

ezeagu:

How can Nigerian architecture be 150 years old?

When i say Nigerian Architecture, i mean architecture as conception and designing by an architect or master builder before construction. Except you want to term a hut and even a cave as Architecture

paragonpro:

When i say Nigerian Architecture, i mean architecture as conception and designing by an architect or master builder before construction. Except you want to term a hut and even a cave as Architecture

So it was only huts and caves built before 150 years ago? You're saying there was no such thing as a designer or architect before 150 years ago?

ezeagu:

So it was only huts and caves built before 150 years ago? You're saying there was no such thing as a designer or architect before 150 years ago?

Please name one architect or designer before the repatriated Brazilian slaves

paragonpro:

Please name one architect or designer before the repatriated Brazilian slaves

I don't know any, just like I don't know any architects of ancient China. Can you name a textile designer before 150 years ago? Does that mean there were no textiles back then?

ezeagu:

I don't know any, just like I don't know any architects of ancient China. Can you name a textile designer before 150 years ago? Does that mean there were no textiles back then?

I give up.
But in Ancient China just like in ancient Egypt, there monarchs had palace Architects, Poets, Painters, writers and priests. That was why the Kings were able to build elaborate palaces , burial places and religious structures. We did not have such, except of course in your village.

paragonpro:

I give up.
But in Ancient China just like in ancient Egypt, there monarchs had palace Architects, Poets, Painters, writers and priests. That was why the Kings were able to build elaborate palaces , burial places and religious structures. We did not have such, except of course in your village.

Are you supposed to be a Nigerian architect, what did you study exactly? Nigerian kingdoms had kings who will have to have to have poets, artists, and writers (in the wider sense) to carry on a successful reign and to put their names into history. I can't believe a Nigerian architecture student is arguing for Nigerians not having burial places or religious structures until 150 years ago. Really?

Tell me, do you think the following buildings had no planner or designers, that they were just made from heaps of mud one day?

Benin

[center]





Others:



[img]http://2.bp..com/_jeBv7EEofYQ/TLvDiw1p7LI/AAAAAAAAAKQ/QUdZLOjpDz0/s1600/Dike%27s+Tower.png[/img]





[/center]

rabzy:

How many mud houses would last 200 years? Before the renaissance in Europe and even after that the general population were not building to inspire anyone, they just wanted a place to stay. In africa too our kings built inspiring local houses, many of them were destroyed by invading Colonial forces.

When you save moey over the years in building a modest apartment, the last thing on your mind would be to inspire anyone, when you build a block of flats with hard earned money and you know people would jostle to rent it, you would think little about inspiring anyone.

And for those living in the city especially lagos, mud/laterite is not even cheap.

My friend, you need to travel a bit more - it is called MAINTENANCE.  That is how a 200 year-old mud house lasts!!!

Go to Uganda and look at the tombs of the Buganda kings in Kasubi, which is now a World Heritage Site.  Go to the North and look at some of the edifices there.  Do you think someone built a mud building and just abandoned it?   Did they know it was going to inspire anyone?  Did they do it for the money?  No,  people took the time to maintain those places because it is part of their history.  Now they are seeing the value of the work of generations being appreciated beyond their boundaries.   

This seems to be lost on a lot of Nigerians who only think short-term. Your statement in bold only reinforces that.

N101:

My friend, you need to travel a bit more - it is called MAINTENANCE.  That is how a 200 year-old mud house lasts!!!

Go to Uganda and look at the tombs of the Buganda kings in Kasubi, which is now a World Heritage Site. 

smh

http://www.flickr.com/photos/53911892@N00/4440216889/

http://ekitibwakyabuganda./2010/03/21/museveni-burned-tombs-7-points-why-he-is-the-chief-suspect/

http://www.newvision.co.ug/D/8/12/713151

http://www.modernghana.com/news/269996/1/six-suspects-who-could-have-burned-down-bugandas-r.html

wtf is going on in Uganda?

Most Nigerian architecture is bland (although I have seen a some good looking mansions here and there) because

a) the professional architects (not drafters, but people with real qualifications) need to get paid also, so they take the projects which are available - which are mostly functional and not requiring any original artistry to satisfy the client. If the person who is paying you is not some rich patron who requests that the building be very beautiful and artistic, why would they put the extra effort into it without extra patronage?

b) Nigerians, except for maybe a few people in the North, are following a foreign culture's architecture rather than updating their own art and designs or adding their own cultural designs to basic structures.

c) Nigeria is not the only country facing architectural issues:

http://www.gluckman.com/ArchChina.html
http://www.gluckman.com/Pei.htm

Nice topic, shouldn't this be on the property section?

N101:

My friend, you need to travel a bit more - it is called MAINTENANCE. That is how a 200 year-old mud house lasts!!!

Go to Uganda and look at the tombs of the Buganda kings in Kasubi, which is now a World Heritage Site. Go to the North and look at some of the edifices there. Do you think someone built a mud building and just abandoned it? Did they know it was going to inspire anyone? Did they do it for the money? No, people took the time to maintain those places because it is part of their history. Now they are seeing the value of the work of generations being appreciated beyond their boundaries.

This seems to be lost on a lot of Nigerians who only think short-term. Your statement in bold only reinforces that.

Tombs and houses of Kings can be maintained because the court has the resources to do so and because they are were lived in most of the time, if the capital moves elsewhere due to war or other factors they turn to ruins, so what determines whether we would still find them standing would be the material they were made from, do you think the tombs of pharoah and their pyramids were maintained all thru those thousands of years, the colloseum, the lighthouse of pharos, the temples in the orients? No, most of these structures stood the test of time because of the stuff they were made of. People maintain their houses if they still live in it or if it serves a cultural or spiritual significance for the community, otherwise it is left to rot.

It is modern men that sees those ruins after they have stood the test of time and then turn it into world heritage sites so that they can last longer and be appreciated.

PhysicsQED:


smh

http://www.flickr.com/photos/53911892@N00/4440216889/

http://ekitibwakyabuganda./2010/03/21/museveni-burned-tombs-7-points-why-he-is-the-chief-suspect/

http://www.newvision.co.ug/D/8/12/713151

http://www.modernghana.com/news/269996/1/six-suspects-who-could-have-burned-down-bugandas-r.html

wtf is going on in Uganda?

I should have added "while it was still standing" lol.  I'm sure they will rebuild them, but it was a sad happening indeed.  Btw I take what Ekiti Bwakya Buganda say regarding responsibility for the fire with a pinch of salt.  It could easily have been caused by an electrical fault.  I'm no fan of the President but he wouldn't be so foolish to alienate the largest ethic group by doing something which many would see as tantamount to sacrilege.

Having said that, the mud houses are absolutely fascinating.  I can appreciate them, they are quite cool inside.  The real up country mud huts smell of milk and cow dung.  Personally it never bothered me, in fact I found it quite comforting.  The only problem I had with them is with the creatures living in the thatching!

Seriously though, there are loads of historic buildings like those in Uganda.  The interesting thing is that each ethnic group builds theirs slightly different e.g. different thatch for roof.

As for the insurgency in Uganda, that is nothing new, it's been going on for years.  It was limited to the North and West before, now it is moved South - remember the World Cup bombing that took place in the heart of Kampala last year?  Nigeria take note.

rabzy:

Tombs and houses of Kings can be maintained because the court has the resources to do so and because they are were lived in most of the time, if the capital moves elsewhere due to war or other factors they turn to ruins, so what determines whether we would still find them standing would be the material they were made from, do you think the tombs of pharoah and their pyramids were maintained all thru those thousands of years, the colloseum, the lighthouse of pharos, the temples in the orients? No, most of these structures stood the test of time because of the stuff they were made of. People maintain their houses if they still live in it or if it serves a cultural or spiritual significance for the community, otherwise it is left to rot.

It is modern men that sees those ruins after they have stood the test of time and then turn it into world heritage sites so that they can last longer and be appreciated.

My friend,  I think you miss the point, and maybe you need to understand a bit of Ugandan history - what "courts are we talking about to maintain what in Uganda?  The ones that were outlawed by past Ugandan governments and only allowed to function again in the late 80s/90s?  A lot of mud huts live alongside modern buildings in Uganda, and have been maintained by families - how do you explain that?

It isn't just so-called modern man that sees the importance of these buildings. "Modern man" saw the importance of the pyramids, fossils and dinosaurs for generations, it could simply be that the concept is new to Nigerians who probably don't think past their own existence.  The buildings themselves are a people's story - you don't have to worship them or worship in them for them to be significant.

I know of a building (not in Nigeria) where a former premier from eons ago was born.  If you look at the building today it's still the same style and design as it was back when the said premier was born. The structure is a wooden one, with some modern elements added but not enough to detract from the original facade.  The family themselves saw the importance of the building and worked to maintain it through at least 4 generations.  And the family still live in it.

^^^^^

Here too we have houses be it mud or otherwise that are that old in the north and elsewhere but they are few and they are still standing. If the Oba of benin's palace was not burnt down it could probably have been 300-500 years old now, because the family still lives in there. The new palace now is still made of mud and its close to a hundred years old now. In Benin some chief's houses that survive the punitive expedition is still standing on the main road there, those houses could probably be between 100-200 years old and the family still lives there. So many other palaces in west also have stood till date.

The ordinary folks in uganda still living in their mud houses thru the centuries were not doing so to preserve their heritage, they remained there because it was their home and its still useful, maybe we should ask them if they would take an offer of a modern apartment block to be built for them on that plot, my guess is they would take it.

So we do think about our past and preserve many of our cultural heritages, some are even taboo-lized so that trespassers would not destroy nor desecrate it. But the general populace can do that, if they have a need to build a new house, the other one falls into ruin. It happens in all culture, you can preserve a whole village or town that nobody uses.
The other wooden houses that were on the same street with that of the premier, are they still there, are their families still there maintaining the structures? They have probably moved on or built new modern structures on those plots not staying around to maintain them to inspire the future generations
If that premier was not born there, no one would probably be maintaining that house till now, it serves some cultural significance to them.

ezeagu:

Are you supposed to be a Nigerian architect, what did you study exactly? Nigerian kingdoms had kings who will have to have to have poets, artists, and writers (in the wider sense) to carry on a successful reign and to put their names into history. I can't believe a Nigerian architecture student is arguing for Nigerians not having burial places or religious structures until 150 years ago. Really?

Tell me, do you think the following buildings had no planner or designers, that they were just made from heaps of mud one day?

You are just arguing for the sake of argument. When arguing from an enlightened point of view you state facts and figures, you do not use statements like " Nigerian kingdoms had kings who will have to have to have poets, artists, and writers". You should state the kingdoms, the names prominent poets, artists and writers, besides there could not be writers in precolonial Nigeria, because we did not have an alphabet, i think it should be obvious that you need alphabets to write letters. We had to adopt colonial alphabets. No doubt we had art before contact with Europeans or Arabs, but poetry, i do not know as there is no evidence.

All the pictures you posted shows no Architecture - Art yes but architecture no. Please show me evidence of Architecture before contact with the Europeans or Arabs

To further deflate your Ego, i will educate you that apart form architecture and writing, pre-colonial Nigeria had no Number system, no mathematics, no astronomy, no formal monetary system, no science, meanwhile ancient China, Greece, Egypt, Rome, Babylon, Persia, etc had all these.

paragonpro:

This  is a very important subject and I am obliged to respond as an architect because we are being indicted collectively and individually.

Nigerians by their negative response are showing their usual arrogant attitude without considering the issue in greater depth, this attitude pervades all facets of our lives, be it economic, industrial, artistic, sports, etc. We want to fly before we learn how to crawl.

Nigerian Architecture is evolving naturally and progressively, it is a great misnomer and disservice to compare Nigerian Architecture to European Architecture or even Oriental Architecture which are over 2,000 years. These Architecture evolved according to the social, economic, political and artistic need of their respective societies, and these evolution is still going on even today. Nigerian Architecture on the other hand is barely 150yrs old, the first so called Modern Nigerian Architecture was brought by repatriated Brazillian slaves and they were not even professionals. The study of Architecture by our Universities is barely 50years and people expect us to rival Greek Architecture. Even the word Architecture is barely understood by the majority of our population including some very enlightened people even on Nairaland. Most people confuse the Architect with Engineer, contractor, project manager, etc, I have met only very few people who understand the real role or importance of the Architect and are ready to pay appropriately.

I laugh when people say our Residential Architecture is blocks and concrete, what else do you expects? Architecture reflects the social needs of a people and the most important factor in Nigerian architecture today is that of Security. 

1. Security against intruders ;- Armed robbers, Kidnappers, Assassins, Area Boys,  Boko Haram, etc. This is very important in our Urban Cities. Even with high barbed wired fences and all, people are still assassinated and robbed with impunity. This is responsible the prison like burglary proof surrounding our windows, door and balconies and also for the solid block interiors and exteriors of our residences.

2. Security against insects especially against Mosquitoes: - I believe this is the most serious impediment to both indigenous and modern architecture. Windows, doors and fenestration into our villages huts and buildings are kept at a minimum, barely enough to allow breathing. This is to reduce mosquitoes as much as possible as they had no mosquito nets. Even in Modern Urban residencies, accommodating both burglary proofs and mosquito nets within the same window can be architecturally frustrating.

I had always dreamt of designing spacious outdoor dining areas overlooking a swimming pool or lush gardens or Designing curtain walls by dining rooms overlooking gardens as seen in European design. But when you consider having to put in burglary proofs along the whole length of the wall, then the whole purpose is defeated.

Also our level of industrial development has to be considered when criticizing our Architecture. When virtually all the materials used in building except sand and granite  is imported, thereby pushing the cost of construction way beyond the reach of the average person, then design and aesthetic takes a back seat. At least before blaming the architects reserve some blame for the Government, the materials and metallurgical engineers, etc.

In conclusion, Architecture reflects the fears, hopes, aspiration and level of development of a people and I believe that to a large extent Nigerian Architecture reflects these.

So you're a Nigerian Architect? Good, show me some of your designs.

It's not to compare against European designs per see but to see how you're relating your work to the local environments.

I am not an Architect but my older Brother is a multi award winning Architect so I have a keen eye for good designs.

paragonpro:

You are just arguing for the sake of argument. When arguing from an enlightened point of view you state facts and figures, you do not use statements like " Nigerian kingdoms had kings who will have to have to have poets, artists, and writers". You should state the kingdoms, the names prominent poets, artists and writers,

It's not my job to be history teacher, if you honestly believe poets didn't exist until Brazilians arrived to Nigeria then I'd suggest you look into the history of what became Nigeria further.

paragonpro:

besides there could not be writers in precolonial Nigeria, because we did not have an alphabet, i think it should be obvious that you need alphabets to write letters. We had to adopt colonial alphabets. No doubt we had art before contact with Europeans or Arabs, but poetry, i do not know as there is no evidence.

An alphabet isn't the only form of writing, and a form of writing existed before foreigners showed up.

paragonpro:

All the pictures you posted shows no Architecture - Art yes but architecture no. Please show me evidence of Architecture before contact with the Europeans or Arabs

I don't know how to help you. Please, tell me what architecture is.

paragonpro:

To further deflate your Ego, i will educate you that apart form architecture and writing, pre-colonial Nigeria had no Number system, no mathematics, no astronomy, no formal monetary system, no science, meanwhile ancient China, Greece, Egypt, Rome, Babylon, Persia, etc had all these.

You wasted your money on whichever educational establishment you visited. If this was an attempt to trick me into educating you, then I'm sorry, you'll have to go and humanise your ancestors yourself. I guess you also believe all Africans wore leaves before a foreigner taught them how to make clothes? Whatever.

ezeagu:

It's not my job to be history teacher, if you honestly believe poets didn't exist until Brazilians arrived to Nigeria then I'd suggest you look into the history of what became Nigeria further.

An alphabet isn't the only form of writing, and a form of writing existed before foreigners showed up.

I don't know how to help you. Please, tell me what architecture is.

You wasted your money on whichever educational establishment you visited. If this was an attempt to trick me into educating you, then I'm sorry, you'll have to go and humanise your ancestors yourself. I guess you also believe all Africans wore leaves before a foreigner taught them how to make clothes? Whatever.

As usual all sweeping generalization without any substance, yes i know that there were other forms of writing outside alphabet, but you did not give any example or even a googled link to the form of writing in pre-colonial Nigeria.

I never specifically said that we had no poet, what i said that we do not have any evidence of the poetry since we had no form of writing.

I never said all Africans wore leaves, what i said is that people in present day Nigeria did not have writing and advance technical knowledge or sciences before our contact with foreigners. And i want you to help dispute this.

paragonpro:

As usual all sweeping generalization without any substance, yes i know that there were other forms of writing outside alphabet, but you did not give any example or even a googled link to the form of writing in pre-colonial Nigeria.

I never specifically said that we had no poet, what i said that we do not have any evidence of the poetry since we had no form of writing.

Here's a quote from one missionary in 1909 (you know, one of those people who taught Africans how to talk and bath)

The use of nsibidi is that of ordinary writing. I have in my possession a copy of the record of a court case from a town of Enion [Enyong] taken down in it, and every detail ,  is most graphically described

What he is referring to is nsibidi, a writing systems that uses symbols to represent words and ideas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nsibidi

[center][/center]

And even if I can't find a poem written in nsibidi (there were stories though), I've given you an example of a whole court case. An African writing system!

And if you still don't believe this is a form of writing, go to Google books and search 'nsibidi writing system' and see published writers and researchers refer to it as a writing system, in fact I already did it for you: http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=nsibidi+writing+system&btnG=Search+Books

Now, let's move on to the other funny claims.

paragonpro:

All the pictures you posted shows no Architecture - Art yes but architecture no.

People live and work in them, it is architecture, unless you have an argument against this.

paragonpro:

To further deflate your Ego

If, as an African you're saying all this to "deflate my ego", then I wonder how you feel about yourself.

paragonpro:

i will educate you that apart form architecture and writing, pre-colonial Nigeria had no Number system

Otu, abuo, atọ, anọ. . . Anybody who speaks a language of Nigeria can give you a number system. In fact, you could have just Googled it and you would have seen some languages of Nigeria listed with Greek, Arabic and the rest, like here: http://www.sf.airnet.ne.jp/~ts/language/number.html This makes me wonder how much you know about Nigeria.

paragonpro:

no mathematics,

So how did they trade when they used thing like Okpogho and Ikpeghe, oh that brings another thing, Nigerians had currency before Europeans arrived, the Europeans then called it Manilla, but the most common native name is Okpogho, they've been used for over one thousand years, here's one:

[center][/center]

paragonpro:

no astronomy,

That would mean the various indigenous calendars do not exist, which also means that the various harvesting times did not exist, which also means that the various festivals do not exist (such as the new yam festival, and the traditional new years). Okay, why are some gods in traditional religions linked to planets? I would suggest you read the opening of Chinua Achebe's 'Arrow of God'.

paragonpro:

no formal monetary system

Already covered this, plus there were insurance and loan schemes.

paragonpro:

no science

Science is so broad that I don't know what you mean, even mixing herbs together is science.

paragonpro:

meanwhile ancient China, Greece, Egypt, Rome, Babylon, Persia, etc had all these.

Is that what you heard or what you studied?

http://blog.ted.com/2007/11/29/ron_eglash/


check this out!

paragonpro seems very oblivious.

aribisala0:

http://blog.ted.com/2007/11/29/ron_eglash/

check this out!

This is amazing stuff. Thanks aribisala.

paragonpro:

As usual all sweeping generalization without any substance, yes i know that there were other forms of writing outside alphabet, but you did not give any example or even a googled link to the form of writing in pre-colonial Nigeria.

Google Nsibidi


I never specifically said that we had no poet, what i said that we do not have any evidence of the poetry since we had no form of writing.

I never said all Africans wore leaves, what i said is that people in present day Nigeria did not have writing and advance technical knowledge or sciences before our contact with foreigners. And i want you to help dispute this.

I dont know about Nigeria, but I can recall reading about a certain tribe in Mali and their expertise in the solar system even before the advent of colonialism. Please do your research before posting this write-ups.

Ppl like paragonpro embarrass me so much. I really hope he's not an African

cant relate to the topic unfortunately, because i'm a great admirer of nigerian architecture.

for those of you who cant say the same, well, just focus on something else.

aribisala0:

http://blog.ted.com/2007/11/29/ron_eglash/


check this out!

Thanks.

Ndipe:

I dont know about Nigeria, but I can recall reading about a certain tribe in Mali and their expertise in the solar system even before the advent of colonialism. Please do your research before posting this write-ups.

You must be talking about the Dogon and their knowledge of Sirius.

pleep:

Ppl like paragonpro embarrass me so much. I really hope he's not an African

Unfortunately, this is a Nigerian and many Nigerians feel like this and worse, there are Nigerians that believe their ancestors wore leaves (only) before Europeans.