In the story of Elijah and the widow of Zarephath as recoded in 1 Kings chapter 17 verses 9 to 16
" Arise, get thee to Zarephath, which belongeth to Zidon, and dwell there: behold, I have commanded a widow woman there to sustain thee.
So he arose and went to Zarephath. And when he came to the gate of the city, behold, the widow woman was there gathering of sticks: and he called to her, and said, Fetch me, I pray thee, a little water in a vessel, that I may drink.
And as she was going to fetch it, he called to her, and said, Bring me, I pray thee, a morsel of bread in thine hand.
And she said, As the Lord thy God liveth, I have not a cake, but an handful of meal in a barrel, and a little oil in a cruse: and, behold, I am gathering two sticks, that I may go in and dress it for me and my son, that we may eat it, and die.
And Elijah said unto her, Fear not; go and do as thou hast said: but make me thereof a little cake first, and bring it unto me, and after make for thee and for thy son.
For thus saith the Lord God of Israel, The barrel of meal shall not waste, neither shall the cruse of oil fail, until the day that the Lord sendeth rain upon the earth.
And she went and did according to the saying of Elijah: and she, and he, and her house, did eat many days.
And the barrel of meal wasted not, neither did the cruse of oil fail, according to the word of the Lord, which he spake by Elijah. "

In the above story, I wish to know, between the widow of Zarephath and Elijah who was helping who. Is the widow helping Elijah or the presence of Elijah that was helping the widow and her son?

It is obvious ,the prophet helped the woman. God could have taken care of him without her as he had done before. She was the one who needed a miracle . The person who gives positions himself or herself for grace.


Acts 20:35
, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

I believe God had an instruction and outcome for both of them, and it was their obedience to His instructions that gave each their required outcome.

Nobody is helping anybody in the above passage as they were both obeying God's commands. It was God that commanded the widow directly to give out of her little to Elijah. Both benefited from each other but it was God that helped them both. The interesting thing is that rogues, charlatans and scammers especially in the pentecostal fold have used this story to manipulate and fleece the gullibles amongst the body of christ. This story is not applicable to christians today cause Elijah's case was specially ordained by God. That aside it was born out of a need for food and not greed for material wealth as is the case with 419 preachers these days.

Joagbaje:

It is obvious ,the prophet helped the woman.

KunleOshob:

Nobody is helping anybody in the above passage as they were both obeying God's commands. It was God that commanded the widow directly to give out of her little to Elijah. Both benefited from each other but it was God that helped them both.

The striking thing is that the woman got the right result. Today, many people that respond to that verse do not receive anything remotely resembling that result. Instead, after sowing, they have to spend years confessing and sowing some more. I guess the big difference is hearing God for yourself and obeying, doing or following His instructioons.

Joagbaje:

It is obvious ,the prophet helped the woman. God could have taken care of him without her as he had done before. She was the one who needed a miracle . The person who gives positions himself or herself for grace.


Acts 20:35
, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

If God could have taken care of him without her, could He also not have taken care of her without him?

God takes care of the man of God, because of his ministry. He sent the bird to feed him he also sent an angel to feed him another time. He could have done it.

^^^ and if u r not a "Man of God''?

Joagbaje:

It is obvious ,the prophet helped the woman. God could have taken care of him without her as he had done before. She was the one who needed a miracle . The person who gives positions himself or herself for grace.

1 Kings 17:7-9 (KJV)
7And it came to pass after a while, that the brook dried up, because there had been no rain in the land. 8And the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, 9Arise, get thee to Zarephath, which belongeth to Zidon, and dwell there: behold, I have commanded a widow woman there to sustain thee.

The prophet was told to migrate to Zarephat for his own sustenance, and not to go sustain the widow as you claimed

nlMediator:

The striking thing is that the woman got the right result. Today, many people that respond to that verse do not receive anything remotely resembling that result.

I would say nobody has received anything remotely resembling that result. Don't mind Jo jare, pastors use this verse to deceive the congregation

Joagbaje:

God takes care of the man of God, because of his ministry. He sent the bird to feed him he also sent an angel to feed him another time. He could have done it.

So why do you have difficulty accepting the fact that God is also using the widow to feed Elijah just as he sent birds and angel at some point in time

The prophet was told to migrate to Zarephat for his own sustenance, and not to go sustain the widow as you claimed

That's what it appears to be physically but a man that has understanding of spiritual laws knows it's the other way. When we pray to God for example , are we helping him? We help ourselves .

Nesides,When God says he has commanded the widow, that doesn't mean she heard any voice. It was a prophetic utterance just like saying "I have ordained her" to feed you. But the woman physically was broke. She was about to die. But the blessing lies with the manor God. A man of God carries anointing to prosper. She had to connect to the anointing by ministring to him with the food. If she had not done that , she would have died even though she had been ordained to feed him. She must connect to "the prophets reward"  and that's what he made her do. He wasn't selfish , he had to make her operate spiritual law.

What she gave was a lesser blessing, what she received was a greater blessing. Why was paul rejoicing for the things the philipians sent . He rejoiced not because he was excited at their gift, but he was excited about what they will recieve from him. 

Who is helping who? The anointed man carries the blessing. When you give him, you position yourself to recieve period.

When you give its a principle, it must multiply. He that recieve a prophet receives a reward, if a prophet have nothing to give God will not say so. A prophet is anointed to bless. Their words turn circumstances around.

Who helped who?

The woman could have said no to God's command, but she believed God and obeyed. The prophet spoke words of blessing he could have kept quiet therefore they both are people of faith, they responded to the voice of God. Even though what she recieved was multiplied the prophet could have missed a meal maybe if the woman held back her meal, God would have looked for another alternative.

@Joeagbaje and anyone bold enough including the op; Should be capable of telling the truth here i will appreciate it. from the bible have you come to any verse where Jesus did need help? Have you come to any verse where Jesus did not need help from God?

have you come to any verse where God needed help?have you come to any verse where God needed help from Jesus?


Who of the two can do everything without the support or help of the other? Who of the two must need help from the other otherwise he will not be able to do anything?



Who is helping who; Jesus son of Mary or God Almighty Yahweh or Jehovah [your choice of name].

^^^
Is the woman that would have died if she didnt obey God would have fed the prophet another way but the word help means assistance, in this story they were were of assistance to each other. She could have said, i will eat my last meal and die. It took faith to believe God like that, maybe the op should change to title. Like who was greater btw the of them, but if the word is help/assistance them assist each other o. I am sure he said thank you to her after eating the meal.

nuella2:

When you give its a principle, it must multiply.

Where do folks get all these fancy ideas from? When you give it must multiply and yet we have poor people in the church who have been giving for donkey years? Oh, I forget they do not have faith. How about those that have faith in the church? If their giving multiplied all the time, wouldn't they all be richer than Carlos Slim by now?

livin:

^^^ and if u r not a "Man of God''?

Excellent question.

[
I would say nobody has received anything remotely resembling that result. Don't mind Jo jare, pastors use this verse to deceive the congregation

[quote][/quote]

It's a bit troubling that people quickly use the Elijah-Elisha widows' stories to get people to give, but never report back on testimnies of hose people getting a similar result in terms of speed and content. Yet, these people operated in the OT. We, outside the OT, should even be doing better.

nlMediator:


It's a bit troubling that people quickly use the Elijah-Elisha widows' stories to get people to give, but never report back on testimnies of hose people getting a similar result in terms of speed and content. Yet, these people operated in the OT. We, outside the OT, should even be doing better.

What are we saying , when people give, is it not for their own good?. Principles are beyond testaments and dispensations. It is universal.

Are you saying giving doesn't work?

nlMediator:

Where do folks get all these fancy ideas from? When you give it must multiply and yet we have poor people in the church who have been giving for donkey years? Oh, I forget they do not have faith.

You've just answered yourself.

How about those that have faith in the church? If their giving multiplied all the time, wouldn't they all be richer than Carlos Slim by now?
Excellent question.

the wealth of a christian is not by what he has aqcuired . A christian is a channel of blessing to his world. It is carnal to quantify blessing by THINGS.

@Joagbaje, How u dey? Hope ur doin great?

Joagbaje:

That's what it appears to be physically but a man that has understanding of spiritual laws knows it's the other way.

I think you are introducing unnecessary complexities to a simple issue. Before you go about understanding spiritual laws, why not first understand the motive for (or purpose of) the event. The question i would ask is; was Elijah sent to help the woman or to find sustenance for himself? If purpose was for Elijah to be taken care off, a dead widow would not serve the purpose abi? So it's wrong for you to say it was the woman that needed the miracle.

Joagbaje:

Nesides,When God says he has commanded the widow, that doesn't mean she heard any voice.

I don't know anything bout this. i no dey there

Joagbaje:

It was a prophetic utterance just like saying "I have ordained her" to feed you.

So? does that change anything? whether she hear any voice or not, she was chosen for the purpose. Not taking care of Elijah will be contrary to God's will.

Joagbaje:

But the woman physically was broke. She was about to die.

We know

Joagbaje:

But the blessing lies with the manor God.

Which blessing again oh. Was there a promise of blessing? are you now saying the pastor is the custodian of our blessings?

Joagbaje:

A man of God carries anointing to prosper.

Na you talk so. i never see evidence sha

Joagbaje:

She had to connect to the anointing by ministring to him with the food. If she had not done that , she would have died even though she had been ordained to feed him.

Yes, she would have died if she had not given, cos that is contrary to God's plan. The reason for her having more than enough was for Elijah's sustenance. If she was the chosen one, i don't see her backing out of the arrangement. This connection to anointing you talk about, is it the pay-as-you-go type? cos she kept on ministering to Elijah with food for a very long time (like three years?).

Joagbaje:

She must connect to "the prophets reward"  and that's what he made her do. He wasn't selfish , he had to make her operate spiritual law.

Selfish ke Elijah no chop from the so called "prophets reward" abi which kind of "prophet's reward" be that? so if a pastor is hungry now, all he needs to do is get somebody to 'minister' to him and they share the resulting "prophets reward" 50-50  

Joagbaje:

What she gave was a lesser blessing, what she received was a greater blessing.

Blessing that was shared by both parties. So, don't you think the blessing was for both the widow and Elijah?

Joagbaje:

Why was paul rejoicing for the things the philipians sent . He rejoiced not because he was excited at their gift, but he was excited about what they will recieve from him. 

So, do you know if they did received some goodies

Joagbaje:

Who is helping who? The anointed man carries the blessing.

I think they both received their help from the Almighty.

Joagbaje:

You've just answered yourself.

the wealth of a christian is not by what he has aqcuired . A christian is a channel of blessing to his world. It is carnal to quantify blessing by THINGS.

But the widow's blessing here was physical. You can't say if you give to prophet like the widow did, you'll be blessed as she was, and then turn around to say but the blessings would not be in the form of physical things! No wonder many that give to prophets on the basis of the manipulation of that Scripture, instead of the leading of the Spirit and love, have little or nothing to show for it.

No, I did not answer myself. It was sarcasm.

Giving works. But the idea that every giving multiplies is false. It accords neither with scripture nor common sense.

nuella2:

When you give its a principle, it must multiply.

Does this principle apply to non-Christians? You said it 'must' multiply irrespective of the motive?

nuella2:

He that recieve a prophet receives a reward,

If a sango worshiper receives a prophet, will he be entitled to a prophet reward.

nuella2:

He that recieve a prophet receives a reward, if a prophet have nothing to give God will not say so.

Is the giving (reward) from the prophet or from God?

nuella2:

Who helped who?

The woman could have said no to God's command, but she believed God and obeyed. The prophet spoke words of blessing he could have kept quiet therefore they both are people of faith, they responded to the voice of God. Even though what she recieved was multiplied the prophet could have missed a meal maybe if the woman held back her meal, God would have looked for another alternative.

If i remember correctly, somebody did say (in some other thread) that you are quite reasonable. I see that on display here But i really like to know what you meant by 'words of blessing'.

God was helping the two of them.

Joagbaje:

What are we saying , when people give, is it not for their own good?.

It's for the good of all parties directly or indirectly involved in the transaction, not just the giver. We don't give for the fun of it, motive matters. Your preaching on giving will not make much sense till you address the issue of motive.

Joagbaje:

Are you saying giving doesn't work?

It's not the giving that work, it's what drives the giving that work.

I know joeagbaje is avoiding my questions, as he did in many threads. i am hoping that your eyes will open up before you die.

@nuella; i am asking my question about God and Jesus son of Mary. you are turning help from a superior to a full subordinate to help meaning assistance.

you can't do that. help in this case means empower the powerless to accomplish. between God and Jesus son of Mary, who has the power to empower the powerless to accomplish?

this is my question.

nuella2:

When you give its a principle, it must multiply. He that recieve a prophet receives a reward, if a prophet have nothing to give God will not say so. A prophet is anointed to bless. Their words turn circumstances around.

Who helped who?

The woman could have said no to God's command, but she believed God and obeyed. The prophet spoke words of blessing he could have kept quiet therefore they both are people of faith, they responded to the voice of God. Even though what she recieved was multiplied the prophet could have missed a meal maybe if the woman held back her meal, God would have looked for another alternative.

nuella2:

^^^
Is the woman that would have died if she didnt obey God would have fed the prophet another way but the word help means assistance, in this story they were were of assistance to each other. She could have said, i will eat my last meal and die. It took faith to believe God like that, maybe the op should change to title. Like who was greater btw the of them, but if the word is help/assistance them assist each other o. I am sure he said thank you to her after eating the meal.

nuella2

Do you see now why it is not a good idea to say or suggest that we should not obey God with that statement by Oyakhilome that nowhere in the New Testament are we told to obey God? In particular as the statement is not true, indeed it is a big lie as we demonstrated with several passages contradicting it in the New Testament? https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-704762.0.html

I assume the help was mutual. Elijah needed sustenance whilst the woidow needed money to pay off her debtors

Zikkyy:

Does this principle apply to non-Christians? You said it 'must' multiply irrespective of the motive?

If a sango worshiper receives a prophet, will he be entitled to a prophet reward.

Is the giving (reward) from the prophet or from God?

If i remember correctly, somebody did say (in some other thread) that you are quite reasonable. I see that on display here But i really like to know what you meant by 'words of blessing'.

@zikkyy

Its like the law of gravity it got nothing to do with weda ur a christian or not. If a person gives he will recieve-gbam! I philantropist will recieve even if is he is a muslim, satanist, sango priest or prostitute. Its a law its not just a christain belief, rain dey fall for everybody house na.

If a sango priests can accomodate a prophet i think that man was looking for God, and anyone that will do good to a child of God has certainly done good to God. He will certainly recieve a reward and i think he will be saved before his dying day. Like the man conelius in Acts 10, God will have mercy and he will if not thay day he recieved the prophet or some other day in the future. Remember the story of the Joshua, the woman that accomodated them was saved and her household.

Words of blessing- They are prophetic utterances made by a Man of God, remember how Isaac blessed Jacob? They were spoken words but they made him a master in life.

God has blessed us already, we are not about to be blessed but several things can be hindering you from enjoying all God has for you. Some christians are not walking in victory even after they get born again, A prophet of God can speak words on you, they are anointed by God to take Gods people to there rightful place in God. Sincerely even though every christian is anointed God has called and ordained some into specific offices. What christian has been praying for years just one command from a prophet will bring an instant change.

nuella2:

Its like the law of gravity it got nothing to do with weda your a christian or not. If a person gives he will recieve-gbam! I philantropist will recieve even if is he is a muslim, satanist, sango priest or LovePeddler. Its a law its not just a christain belief

What i read you say here is that the law of giving and receiving is a natural law. So if an armed robber shares his loot by also giving some in church (or his neighbour), he will receive the associated reward or if a terrorist give out of the fee collected for blowing up a passenger plane, he will receive the associated reward So, being a natural law, who is dishing out this reward? nature? I think i now understand why i have been having issues with Jo. I have actually been looking at this giving issue from a Christian perspective. Make una no vex Thanks for the clarification

nuella2:

rain dey fall for everybody house na.

Okay. i don hear

nuella2:

If a sango priests can accomodate a prophet i think that man was looking for God, and anyone that will do good to a child of God has certainly done good to God.

The motivation for accommodating the prophet varies. The sango priest could accommodate not because he want to do good, it could be for political reasons. It could be because he's after the prophet reward, and not because he like the prophet, not because he was looking for God. I am looking at a situation where the sango priest remains a loyal servant of sango. So, will he still be getting that prophetic reward?

nuella2:

Words of blessing- They are prophetic utterances made by a Man of God

Thanks for the clarification.

nuella2:

God has blessed us already, we are not about to be blessed

If we already blessed, what's the talk about the pastor being the custodian of people's blessings. Jo stated that "the blessing lies with the pastor".

nuella2:

but several things can be hindering you from enjoying all God has for you. Some christians are not walking in victory even after they get born again, A prophet of God can speak words on you

Can you clarify? i just cant relate 'not walking in victory' and 'pastor speaking word on you'. i need to understand what you meant by 'walking in victory'. Can a pastor's 'prophetic utterance' change your walk?

nuella2:

What christian has been praying for years just one command from a prophet will bring an instant change.

what are saying? that pastor get priority attention in heaven while others have to queue/wait for their turn? na wa oh, i no know say pastor dey on fast track . . . .

nuella2:

What christian has been praying for years just one command from a prophet will bring an instant change.

. . . . . or maybe you are saying the pastor can command the Almighty to cooperate and respond to the christian's prayer request or maybe the pastor can effect the change himself (after all God don give am authority via ordination), why then should a Christian go to God when the pastor can do it so, which one? clarify abeg

Zikkyy:


Can you clarify? i just cant relate 'not walking in victory' and 'pastor speaking word on you'. i need to understand what you meant by 'walking in victory'. Can a pastor's 'prophetic utterance' change your walk?

what are saying? that pastor get priority attention in heaven while others have to queue/wait for their turn? na wa oh, i no know say pastor dey on fast track . . . .

. . . . . or maybe you are saying the pastor can command the Almighty to cooperate and respond to the christian's prayer request or maybe the pastor can effect the change himself (after all God don give am authority via ordination), why then should a Christian go to God when the pastor can do it so, which one? clarify abeg

@zikky

Do you know that even if God has defeated the devil on our behalf their are still christians that are still under the oppression of the devil bc they dont know how to walk in the victory that is available to them. Thats what i mean by walking in victory. There are christians that cant remember the last time they fasted abi prayed for one hour, now if such a christian is dealing with demonic oppression he might not be strong/sensitive enough to handle that matter but a prophet of God who is always fasting and praying will change that in minutes cos his words carry power because of the spiritual environment he lives.

So its not about fast track. Christianity is spiritual but most christians are carnal and dont even know how to recieve from God and take what belongs to them in christ. In as much as the bible say ask and you shall recieve do not mean its like magic, faith is involved. The question is how big is your faith? Can your faith move a particular mountain in your life? My brother some challenge dem die wrapper o, lol. You need to be equipped for them.

Thats why people pray and pray sometimes and nothing happens but a Man of God just command whatever responsible for that situation to leave and it does bc demons recognise knowledge of the christian. There are levels of demonic cases, we are seated with christ far above all of them but we need to be aware of it, believe our authority then grow our spirits.

Life is spiritual and most of our challenges are to be handled spiritually, but how spiritual are we? How sensitive are our spirits to Gods leading? So my brother this matter pass just talking and quoting bible it takes alot of exercising our spirit man to handle some situations.

nuella2:

Do you know that even if God has defeated the devil on our behalf their are still christians that are still under the oppression of the devil bc they dont know how to walk in the victory that is available to them. Thats what i mean by walking in victory. There are christians that cant remember the last time they fasted abi prayed for one hour, now if such a christian is dealing with demonic oppression he might not be strong/sensitive enough to handle that matter but a prophet of God who is always fasting and praying will change that in minutes cos his words carry power because of the spiritual environment he lives.

Thank you nuella2 but if the Christian can fast and pray like pastor, he will not be needing pastoral intervention abi because he too don dey kamkpe like the pastor, abi na

nuella2:

The question is how big is your faith? Can your faith move a particular mountain in your life? My brother some challenge dem die wrapper o, lol. You need to be equipped for them.

You talk true

nuella2:

So my brother this matter pass just talking and quoting bible it takes alot of exercising our spirit man to handle some situations.

This is for Joagbaje attention. Na the man dey quote irrelevant scriptures anyhow here

nlMediator:

But the widow's blessing here was physical. You can't say if you give to prophet like the widow did, you'll be blessed as she was, and then turn around to say but the blessings would not be in the form of physical things!

The blessing is spiritual but it manifest in producing physical things . You can't see the wind ,you only see it's effect. The flying debris and dust in the air is not the wind. I hope you get me now.