Fulaman198:

You do know there are two groups of Nigerian fulani right?

There are the Rimbe and Rimaybe

That is to say the Rimaybe are the ones who share culture similar to that of the Wodaabe since they are both Mbororo.

The Rimbe (people who are not nomadic Fulani and are sedentary) don't have culture similar to the Wodaabe but more in-tune with the Hausa. However, they can still speak Fulfulde.

But from your own admission the sedentary Fulani look down on them and by extension their tradition because its the nomadic Fulani who are closer to what pre-Islamic Fulani were like

Fulaman198:

lol well you are right I do, but I don't act Westernized like some Nigerians I have come across. When they have an education they flaunt it, but what good does it do them? Then they forget the culture they were raised in which taught them to be humble and show modesty and go about in their Lexus, BMW or Mercedes and pretend they don't speak their native tongue. It is sickening to me

And according to you, only Igbos and all/most igbos are like this? No other Nigerians? Really?

And I thought the stereotype associated with igbos was stinginess and love of money, not flamboyance. Actually people even accuse igbos of not being able to hold "classy" parties. We are also accused of having "thick" accents and being "igbotic." So now we are americanized? Ok oooo! Lol

Majority of igbos live in the east. Majority do not drive a lexus or mercedez (you are more likely to find other groups who have this ostentatious display of wealth). majority of Igbos speak their language and only their language while engaging in various trades. Fact.

Who, what, and why is an igbo? The question seems to be. Lol.

Fulaman198:

lol well you are right I do, but I don't act Westernized like some Nigerians I have come across. When they have an education they flaunt it, but what good does it do them? Then they forget the culture they were raised in which taught them to be humble and show modesty and go about in their Lexus, BMW or Mercedes and pretend they don't speak their native tongue. It is sickening to me

Hey, if you don't want to let people know you worked hard for your degree that's your prerogative
Well like I said celebration of the individual's achievement is part and parcel of Igbo culture long before the first European set foot on what is now Nigeria.

nnenna.1:


And according to you, only Igbos and all/most igbos are like this? No other Nigerians? Really?

And I thought the stereotype associated with igbos was stinginess and love of money, not flamboyance. Actually people even accuse igbos of not being able to hold "classy" parties. We are also accused of having "thick" accents and being "igbotic." So now we are americanized? Ok oooo! Lol

Majority of igbos live in the east. Majority do not drive a lexus or mercedez (you are more likely to find other groups who have this ostentatious display of wealth). majority of Igbos speak their language and only their language while engaging in various trades. Fact.

Who, what, and why is an igbo? The question seems to be. Lol.

I don't know about that, the Igbo I have come across seem to try to show "high-class" and give off the image that they are rich, well-off and educated (which they are without a doubt), but why do they have to boast about it?

Fulaman198:

I don't know about that, the Igbo I have come across seem to try to show "high-class" and give off the image that they are rich, well-off and educated (which they are without a doubt), but why do they have to boast about it?

Because they have the right to? God gave us all that right You are welcomed to invest in earplugs or have an Ipod on stand-by if its too over the top

Fulaman198:

I don't know about that, the Igbo I have come across seem to try to show "high-class" and give off the image that they are rich, well-off and educated (which they are without a doubt), but why do they have to boast about it?

Ok so your issue is not that igbos are westernized, as you put it. It is that they are proud of being rich, right?

In my experience, the average igbo person is not any more proud than the average southerner. Actually the average Nigerian is stereotyped as the most arrogant SOB you can ever know. And one thing an arrogant person cannot stand is the sight of another arrogant person. No wonder we all cannot stand each other, it seems lol.

Interesting debate so far...

But being a neutral party, who have mingled with both sides - I think Igbos are most westernized Nigerians..

There's no logic in trying to argue against Islamic influence on the Fulani culture because they're intertwined - and the Fulani 'Civilization' in Nigeria was built on jihad and Islam... Igbos on the other hand had a separate culture and civilization before the first white man got to the shores of Nigeria.. Substituting part of your culture for the western culture shows that your culture isn't pure, and it has been compromised... But you can't talk about Fulani culture in Nigeria without Uthman Dan Fodio - and we all know what he was famous/infamous for.

shymmex: Interesting debate so far...

But being a neutral party, who have mingled with both sides - I think Igbos are most westernized Nigerians..

There's no logic in trying to argue against Islamic influence on the Fulani culture because they're intertwined - and the Fulani 'Civilization' in Nigeria was built on jihad and Islam... Igbos on the other hand had a separate culture and civilization before the first white man got to the shores of Nigeria.. Substituting part of your culture for the western culture shows that your culture isn't pure, and it has been compromised... But you can't talk about Fulani culture in Nigeria without Uthman Dan Fodio - and we all know what he was famous/infamous for.

Can we have an example of this Western behavior? An example I can hold on to? Because right now I'm trying to build a point on a vague concept of "alleged westerness" when no one has said what it is that constitutes Westerness?

Speaking English?

And though this is a different argument all together, are you not among the folks who claim the Igbo had no culture or civilization Lol I do remember some of the things you guys say in passing even if you don't.

Zeruchi :


Can we have an example of this Western behavior? An example I can hold on to? Because right now I'm trying to build a point on a vague concept of "alleged westerness" when no one has said what it is that constitutes Westerness?

Speaking English?

And though this is a different argument all together, are you not among the folks who claim the Igbo had no culture or civilization

Saying Igbo has no 'culture' or 'civilization' is just banter.. ... What do you expect me to say when some Igbo posters fond of making fun of Oduduwa, the progenitor of Yoruba race??

But it can be argued that Igbos never had a homogeneous/central civilization like other well known civilizations around the world, but that's a topic for another day...

Back to your question - one can argue that the red wooly hat Igbos wear as part of their culture is western.. Also, most Igbos tend to have English names - and the language has also been comprised.

Zeruchi :


But from your own admission the sedentary Fulani look down on them and by extension their tradition because its the nomadic Fulani who are closer to what pre-Islamic Fulani were like

They look down on each other, The Nomadic Fulani feel as if the Sedentary ones have lost their way, and the Sedentary Fulani think the Nomadic Fulani are not educated and are not religious enough

shymmex: Interesting debate so far...

But being a neutral party, who have mingled with both sides - I think Igbos are most westernized Nigerians..

There's no logic in trying to argue against Islamic influence on the Fulani culture because they're intertwined - and the Fulani 'Civilization' in Nigeria was built on jihad and Islam... Igbos on the other hand had a separate culture and civilization before the first white man got to the shores of Nigeria.. Substituting part of your culture for the western culture shows that your culture isn't pure, and it has been compromised... But you can't talk about Fulani culture in Nigeria without Uthman Dan Fodio - and we all know what he was famous/infamous for.

You are right, I have been leaving that out a lot to show that we are not Arabs (nor will we ever be). We are proud of being Fulbe

shymmex:

Saying Igbo has no 'culture' or 'civilization' is just banter.. ... What do you expect me to say when some Igbo posters fond of making fun of Oduduwa, the progenitor of Yoruba race??

But it can be argued that Igbos never had a homogeneous/central civilization like other well known civilizations around the world, but that's a topic for another day...

Back to your question - one can argue that the red wooly hat Igbos wear as part of their culture is western.. Also, most Igbos tend to have English names - and the language has also been comprised.

I hold you to that

Well it served them well, it was the last part of Nigeria to be under British rule and the scene of one of the longest campaigns by the British to assert their complete dominance (31 years to be exact8))

"One can argue" is the point of contention, I've seen photos of Igbo women with mow-hawk hairstyles in the very distant past, but the hairstyle is considered a western so which came first

In addition to an Igbo name, its common to have an Igbo first or Middle name and an English name I've met Yoruba people with the same, other etnicities around the world do the same.

So I'm going to need some more evidence

Fulaman198:

You are right, I have been leaving that out a lot to show that we are not Arabs (nor will we ever be). We are proud of being Fulbe

I understand, brother.. It seems they're confusing Hausa with Fulani..

Hausas are the most confused Nigerians ever... I still can fathom why they left everything about their culture, to embrace everything that isn't theirs - despite building one of the greatest civilizations in modern day Nigeria ... But that's a story for another day..

Quoted for emphasis:

nnenna.1:
You keep talking about how americanized igbos are and how western they are etc. Let me repeat- there is absolutely nothing, NOTHING, that makes igbos more westernized than the average southern, christian group. Fact.

I can bring up as many westernized examples of people, entertainers and statesmen alike, who are Yoruba, Efik, ijaw, urhobo, Itshekiri, etc. PLENTY where they come from. There are many groups in the middle belt, south south, even yorubaland who have completely western names. In the south,I can think of several groups worse off than Igbos in many of these respects. And then you have many Northern groups who are totally immersed with islamic and middle-eastern cultures to the extent of being totally African-less or at least not conversant with their true cultures.

My question is, why are the Igbos singled out? Why do they obviously bother people so much?

Zeruchi :

I hold you to that

Well it served them well, it was the last part of Nigeria to be under British rule and the scene of one of the longest campaigns by the British to assert their complete dominance (31 years to be exact8))

"One can argue" is the point of contention, I've seen photos of Igbo women with mow-hawk hairstyles in the very distant past, but the hairstyle is considered a western so which came first

In addition to an Igbo name, its common to have an Igbo first or Middle name and an English name I've met Yoruba people with the same, other etnicities around the world do the same.

So I'm going to need some more evidence

Is the wooly hat Igbo, or not??

Yoruba people with western surnames, are either descendants of returnee slaves - or those who have lived most of their lives in the western world.. In Yoruba culture, your surname is connected to your hometown, and your family house...

shymmex:

Is the wooly hat Igbo, or not??

Yoruba people with western surnames, are either descendants of returnee slaves - or those who have lived most of their lives in the western world.. In Yoruba culture, your surname is connected to your hometown, and your family house...

I don't know to be honest, I don't look into fashion so much
No first names, not last names.

To be honest its people closer to the Delta region like GEJ who tend to have English names.

Itsekiris are westernized because they're not a pure tribe.. Itsekiri is a mixture of Yoruba (mostly Ijebu), Benin, Igala, and Portugese... I won't talk about the other tribes because I don't really know much about their history.

Zeruchi :


I don't know to be honest, I don't look into fashion so much
No first names, not last names.

To be honest its people closer to the Delta region like GEJ who tend to have English names.

Unlike Igbos, Ijaws never had any form of civilization - these are people who never used to live on land... Equating Igbos to Ijaws is a disrespect to Igbo culture...

Efiks, Ibibios, Ilajes etc are also close to the Delta... My Yoruba subgroup is also close to Atlantic ocean, and we had contacts with the Europeans, at about the same time other Nigerian tribes did..

nnenna.1:
You keep talking about how americanized igbos are and how western they are etc. Let me repeat- there is absolutely nothing, NOTHING, that makes igbos more westernized than the average southern, christian group. Fact.

I can bring up as many westernized examples of people, entertainers and statesmen alike, who are Yoruba, Efik, ijaw, urhobo, Itshekiri, etc. PLENTY where they come from. There are many groups in the middle belt, south south, even yorubaland who have completely western names. In the south,I can think of several groups worse off than Igbos in many of these respects. And then you have many Northern groups who are totally immersed with islamic and middle-eastern cultures to the extent of being totally African-less or at least not conversant with their true cultures.

My question is, why are the Igbos singled out? Why do they obviously bother people so much?

Quoted again for Maximum emphasis.

Again - there is nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, that makes igbos more westernized than the average southern, christian Nigerian, and less African than the average Nigerian overall. From the change of traditional clothing (with the exception of maybe Binis, ALL southern groups had different cultural attires before european and islam influence) to names (there are groups who answer christian/muslim names in rampant numbers), to education (other groups are stereotyped as being more articulate and western-educated than igbos), to pride (Nigeria = Arrogance), to money (All of the most ostentatious billionaires all over forbes and society magazines are NOT igbo), to music/entertainment (there are tons of traditional igbo music, and tons of western influenced pop artists who are not igbo).

So NOTHING should alienate igbos in this regard. The question is, why do so anyway?

I don't know, but I would take it in stride. You must be doing something right if your name is never far from people's lips for everything

I see anger all over the thread... Bwahahahaha

The last time I checked the thread is about Igbo, and Hausa. If you want to get other cultures involved, create another thread for that... There is no harm in having a discourse, and learning from other people..

And the blame game continues...................................................

shymmex: I see anger all over the thread... Bwahahahaha

The last time I checked the thread is about Igbo, and Hausa. If you want to get other cultures involved, create another thread for that... There is no harm in having a discourse, and learning from other people..

And the blame game continues...................................................

I'm not blaming I'm declaring

Zeruchi :


I'm not blaming I'm declaring

Chineke mee, Naija dictators have done a job on the average naija mentality.

If you want to have a discourse about the westernization of Yoruba, Benin, and Igbo cultures - you can create another thread for that.. I'm sure there are a couple of Yoruba academics on NL that can argue for, and against the topic.. And Prof. PhysicsQED will definitely represent for the Benin people..

PS: Make sure it's in the culture section...Politics section is a no go zone..

Ournaija:
I have an understanding of the three major languages.

I think it`s easier to understand Igbo coz of the following reasons:

1. The language has been adulterated
2. Hardly will any Igbo man speak without adding English before, in-between and after.
3. Listen carefully while an Igbo man speak (plus 1 and 2, u will definitely get three).
That is just the secret. People pay more attention on phonetics.

Hausa on the other
1. The language is pure and has not lost it flavor.
2. Rarely will you find Hausa speakers mixing it with English
3. You will have to listen well before you get the language correctly.

It easier for a Yoruba man to learn Hausa than for an Igbo man coz you will still find some Hausa words in Yoruba. So also it will be easier for an Ibibio or Ijaw person to learn Igbo.

LOL @ Adulterated.

There is no such thing as an adulterated language.
You borrow words from here and there, and it is common with ALL languages.

Hausa borrowed a lot of words from Arabic too, but that does not make Hausa "adulterated"