[Quote]4) EVIDENCE THAT MUHAMMAD Were Intimate WITH AISHA PRIOR TO HER FIRST MENSES

We’ve seen that Islamic doctrine allows for prepubescent children to be engaged in intercourse, and that Aisha was 9 when Muhammad Were Intimate with her for the first time. Now we’ll look at the evidence and see that Aisha was prepubescent when Muhammad Were Intimate with her.

The hadith state that Aisha was taken to Muhammad’s house, as his bride, when she was 9 and she took her dolls with her as play toys. I’ll borrow some excerpts from Sam’s article here:

   'A'isha reported that Allah's Apostle married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house AS A BRIDE WHEN SHE WAS NINE, AND HER DOLLS WERE WITH HER; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3311)

   'A'isha reported that she used to PLAY WITH DOLLS in the presence of Allah's Messenger and when her playmates came to her they left (the house) because they felt shy of Allah's Messenger whereas Allah's Messenger sent them to her. (Sahih Muslim, Book 031, Number 5981)

   When the Apostle of Allah arrived after the expedition to Tabuk or Khaybar (the narrator is doubtful), the draught raised an end of a curtain which was hung in front of her store-room, revealing some dolls which belonged to her.

   He asked: What is this? She replied: My dolls. Among them he saw a horse with wings made of rags, and asked: What is this I see among them? She replied: A horse. He asked: What is this that it has on it? She replied: Two wings. He asked: A horse with two wings? She replied: Have you not heard that Solomon had horses with wings? She said: Thereupon the Apostle of Allah laughed so heartily that I could see his molar teeth. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 41, Number 4914)


A Muslim scholar says that it is okay for Aisha (and other children) to play with dolls because they are not considered adults:

   Al-Khattaabee said: From this Hadeeth it is understood that playing with dolls (al-banaat) is not like the amusement from other images (suwar) concerning which the threat (wa'eed) of punishment is mentioned. The only reason why permission in this was given to 'Aa'isha (may Allah be pleased with her) is because SHE HAD NOT, AT THAT TIME, REACHED THE AGE OF PUBERTY. (Source)

   

Examining the evidence from the previous sections we see

   Islam allows sex with prepubescent children who are married
   Aisha was playing with dolls after she consummated her marriage with Muhammad
   Under Islam’s rules, female children were allowed to play with dolls because they had not yet entered puberty, i.e. had their first menses and became adults.[/Quote]i know women who are muslims who are well educated, american citizens, mothers who collect dolls. and play with them. the dolls in islam does not have to have faces, and the issue of saying that since aisha [ra] played with dolls she must be prepubescent is wrong.

what this christian arab fails to notice is that christianity didn't improve the morality of the arabs. it was Islam that did. if i look at the bible i will see a man who married his sister, another slept with his son's wife. another killed a man and confiscated his widow. another had 1000 to himself alone.

where did Islam not improve the arabs? let deal with the issue of sex and marriage; there was no respect for women before Islam. the west is just catching up to what Islam establishes over 1400 years ago, except that many muslims are abandoning these noble qualities. Quran says of Muslims that it is a nation of justice in middle course and forbidding evil and encouraging good virtues. with these as the quality of Muslims, do we expect the man who personify the complete Islam to be the one who marries a girl who is not a balagha yet, a daughter of a powerful man who knew truth from lies?

even me, a freakin nigerian copied Muhammad in my marriage; an older woman, somebody in my age, much younger woman, none is under the age of maturity, the voting age. this i get this quality from christian man? no; which one is worthy?

obj slept with his daughter in law and the pastors are passing their women around. shall i look at the international scene for christian leadership to emulate? tell me who i should emulate.

if frosbel emulates Jesus, in 100 years he will be forgotten as a person who ever came on earth. if Arabs were not used to marrying under 6 years old as husbands and wives, islam would not have improved them if it is true that Aisha [ra] was 6 at her marriage.

but it is not true because she participated in the formulating of the contract of marriage, a role that must be considered from Quran and hadith. is she not 16 and the gentle soul saw to it that she was well from her sickness a period of 3 years at 19 before the consummation of the marriage? tell me if you know a sexual pervert that can wait a night after marrying a virgin? look at the ghost, it was done like that?

@LagosShia:

While I do not mind listening to people, I do not like people thinking that only them have knowledge. You have more or less stated that I was lying when I said David was punished for misbehaving.

David's child from adultery died - was that a blessing? Or would you pray to bury your own child?

He was told (over another sin) that violence would never leave his line - do you pray your children hunt themselves like rabbits?

I can give more. Yet you sit there stating fallacies as though they are fact and even claiming "laughter" if proved wrong. You people have this innate capability to irritate with such sweeping statements yet you cannot take same while insulting other people - can't you just be civil?

Your Mohamed visited the Temple by flight - can you tell me how a man visits a place that was destroyed before he was born? Can you tell me how crucifixion was used in your Koran thousands of years before crucifixion was invented?

Yet you insist on looking for faults in other beliefs when all of us have only "faith" and not facts. Yes, I can provide things I am uncomfortable with in the Bible - behavior, philosophy etc but that is because I am honest.

Are you? Or the fear of saying anything against Islam is better than lying? Truth, not opinions, dude.

nuclearboy:

@LagosShia:

While I do not mind listening to people, I do not like people thinking that only them have knowledge. You have more or less stated that I was lying when I said David was punished for misbehaving.

I can give more. Yet you sit there stating fallacies as though they are fact and even claiming "laughter" if proved wrong. You people have this innate capability to irritate with such sweeping statements yet you cannot take same while insulting other people - can't you just be civil?

God did not punish David personally according to the bible.he directed his anger towards others who were not responsible for David's actions.

this is what i was talking about and wanted to share a laughter with you (the punishment of immorality in the bible is immorality decreed by God!):

Punishment of David in the bible is the ra.pe of his wives by his neighbor and the killing of his baby!
after David of the bible cheated on his wives,God punished his wives by giving them to the neighbor to be ra.ped!!!

(2 Samuel 12:11-14)
Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house.  I will take your wives while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor.  He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight.  You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord."  Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die.  But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die."  [The child dies seven days later.]

David's child from adultery died - was that a blessing? Or would you pray to bury your own child?

He was told (over another sin) that violence would never leave his line - do you pray your children hunt themselves like rabbits?

please provide the verses.

Your Mohamed visited the Temple by flight - can you tell me how a man visits a place that was destroyed before he was born? Can you tell me how crucifixion was used in your Koran thousands of years before crucifixion was invented?

Muhammad (sa) did not visit a building.he visited the land.it is not the building that is holy.it is the land that is holy with or without a building:

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/aqsa.html

you can read in the below link for evidence that the method of crucifxion as punishment was used in ancient egypt long before the romans used it as rightly mentioned in the Quran.it is miraculous that the Quran is historically accurate on issues that require research and historical tools to determine.people to this day dont know when and where crucifixion for punishment was first used.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/crucify.html

Yet you insist on looking for faults in other beliefs when all of us have only "faith" and not facts. Yes, I can provide things I am uncomfortable with in the Bible - behavior, philosophy etc but that is because I am honest.

Are you? Or the fear of saying anything against Islam is better than lying? Truth, not opinions, dude.

i have facts,not fear!

Your lies and deliberate confusion only prove Frosbel right

You people cannot be reasoned with. You understand only mud-slinging which is only another form of violence

nuclearboy:

Your lies and deliberate confusion only prove Frosbel right

You people cannot be reasoned with. You understand only mud-slinging which is only another form of violence

peace!

Surah Nisaa verses 3 to 6 tells us the minimum age of marrying person. we should study and understand the true meaning of these verses.


[Quote]4:3 And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice].[/Quote]you can marry orphan girls or even slaves [those who your right hand possesses].


[Quote]4:4 And give the women [upon marriage] their [bridal] gifts graciously. But if they give up willingly to you anything of it, then take it in satisfaction and ease.[/Quote]every woman that is going to be married must be given dowry.


[Quote]4:5 And do not give the weak-minded [/b]your property, which Allah has made a means of sustenance for you, but provide for them with it and clothe them and speak to them words of appropriate kindness.[/Quote]a person by virtue of low brain capability/IQ, you should not give them your holdings, they should not be your trustee.


[Quote]4:6 [b]And test the orphans [in their abilities] until they reach marriageable age. Then if you perceive in them sound judgement, release their property to them. And do not consume it excessively and quickly, [anticipating] that they will grow up. And whoever, [when acting as guardian], is self-sufficient should refrain [from taking a fee]; and whoever is poor - let him take according to what is acceptable. Then when you release their property to them, bring witnesses upon them. And sufficient is Allah as Accountant.[/Quote]is there a prepubescent girl for a wife [or boy who wants to marry a wife], above?

deleted

Holy Quran 36:3-4
Indeed you, [O Muhammad], are from among the messengers,On a straight path.


Holy Quran 3:31
Say, [O Muhammad], "If you should love Allah , then follow me, [so] Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."


Holy Quran 53:2-6
Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred,Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination.It is not but a revelation revealed,Taught to him by one intense in strength -One of soundness. And he rose to [his] true form

Holy Quran 48:29
Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating [in prayer], seeking bounty from Allah and [His] pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Torah. And their description in the Gospel is as a plant which produces its offshoots and strengthens them so they grow firm and stand upon their stalks, delighting the sowers - so that Allah may enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them forgiveness and a great reward.

Holy Quran 681-6:
Nun. By the pen and what they inscribe,You are not, [O Muhammad], by the favor of your Lord, a madman.And indeed, [b]for you is a reward uninterrupted.
[/b]And indeed, you are of a great moral character.

@Salisuammy; « #38 on: Today at 10:00:37 AM »
[Quote]Sweetnecta let me tell u that u are just a blind man following another blind man i.e Muhammed.[/Quote]thats not true because Muhammad [as] had what the eye specialist called 20/20 vision, up the time of death.


[Quote] Because u saw your neighbor bowing to the sun, worshipping the sun, u jump up buy your own kettle and start doing the same. I tell u that all muslims are idol worshippers[/Quote]thats not true because i dont worship idol. i donteven have a kettle. i do all my ablution right from the water faucet [bowl].


[Quote] I have seen muslims who claim to protect themselves and their families by going to a native doctor to give them something to bathe with or put on their door posts,[/Quote]plenty of christians do this. or you dont know that already? ask around your neighborhood.


[Quote]so tell me if your so called “ellah” [/Quote]you seem to not know that this was what the bibles say that Jesus said on the cross before he gave up the 'ghost'. read the bible; he did not speak great or english or said father, The name of God in his language. He didn't say Yahweh or Jehovah, but he said Ellah. thats how you derived halleluya. check it out and report back to us. your public is waiting. My Lord God Who is One is Allah.


[Quote]as u have being spelling it can not protect u why worship him. your muhammed before he died told his followers that he was not even sure of his fate[/Quote]read the post of frosbel in the muslim section where he was talking about lies [the thread should have been titled; lies against Islam], where he posted the concern of Abu Bakr [ra] paradise; Muhammad [as] as a messenger of Allah promised him of entering paradise.
when the messenger [as] said that he did not know his own fate, it is a statement of humbleness and humility to his Creator.


[Quote] so now tell me how can u follow a confused person?[/Quote]there is no confusion honoring God by being full of humility and humbling your self before Him. Jesus humbled and full of humility before his Creator Ellah.


[Quote] Am sure muhammed is somewhere in hell burning right now and u are killing people for him.[/Quote]I swear by Allah that you have lied. He is the chairman of those who will enter paradise. He will by Allah enter it before anyone. And Paradise is different from heaven; heaven is a 7 layer envelopes containing things below the first layer.


[Quote]How else can I classify u people if not idol worshippers who use the blood of humans for your sacrifice and claim to fight for your ellah?[/Quote]It was Jesus that your said he call Ellah his God Who forsaken him. My God is Allah. And He does not forsake believers. And no believer will blame Him when he or she is in test or trial or difficult situation.
an idol worshiper will have an idol or some symbol around him or her to worship. such a symbol, example is a 'cross'. do you have a cross?
when a person worship Trinity, that is a form of many gods. please do your homework well.

i meant greek, instead of great.

Sweetnecta:

@Salisuammy; « #38 on: Today at 10:00:37 AM »thats not true because Muhammad [as] had what the eye specialist called 20/20 vision, up the time of death.

thats not true because i dont worship idol. i donteven have a kettle. i do all my ablution right from the water faucet [bowl].

plenty of christians do this. or you dont know that already? ask around your neighborhood.

you seem to not know that this was what the bibles say that Jesus said on the cross before he gave up the 'ghost'. read the bible; he did not speak great or english or said father, The name of God in his language. He didn't say Yahweh or Jehovah, but he said Ellah. thats how you derived halleluya. check it out and report back to us. your public is waiting. My Lord God Who is One is Allah.

read the post of frosbel in the muslim section where he was talking about lies [the thread should have been titled; lies against Islam], where he posted the concern of Abu Bakr [ra] paradise; Muhammad [as] as a messenger of Allah promised him of entering paradise.
when the messenger [as] said that he did not know his own fate, it is a statement of humbleness and humility to his Creator.

there is no confusion honoring God by being full of humility and humbling your self before Him. Jesus humbled and full of humility before his Creator Ellah.

I swear by Allah that you have lied. He is the chairman of those who will enter paradise. He will by Allah enter it before anyone. And Paradise is different from heaven; heaven is a 7 layer envelopes containing things below the first layer.

It was Jesus that your said he call Ellah his God Who forsaken him. My God is Allah. And He does not forsake believers. And no believer will blame Him when he or she is in test or trial or difficult situation.
an idol worshiper will have an idol or some symbol around him or her to worship. such a symbol, example is a 'cross'. do you have a cross?
when a person worship Trinity, that is a form of many gods. please do your homework well.

Regurgitated rubbish !!!

And by the way you do indeed worship idols :

For one you worship the black stone and three daughters of ALLAH. Its all pagan worship, right ??

frosbel:


Regurgitated rubbish !!!

And by the way you do indeed worship idols :

For one you worship the black stone and three daughters of ALLAH. Its all pagan worship, right ??

dreamer!

^^

So you agree with my last statement

He ignored you since you have created what is equivalent to Trinity, with idols already destroyed.

To the 'daughters you mentioned' curse of Allah is on them. now tell me if you ask curse what you worship?

frosbel:

^^

So you agree with my last statement

, See a man that worships a god that shouted "My Self! My Self! why have I forsaken My Self" laughing at himself.

Historical notes:

It is an undeniable fact of history that before Muhammed was born, the moon god "al-Ilah" (Allah) had three daughters named al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. The first two were even named after their father. Each daughter had a separate shrine near Mecca, where Allah's shrine was located.

As Muhammad grew weary from evangelizing his new religion with little success, he was tricked by the devil into adding a verse in the Koran that commanded Muslims to pray to Allah's three pagan daughters Lat, Uzza and Manat. The pagan female trinity was immediately accepted without dissent and the passage was considered part of the revealed Koran. However some time later, Muhammad got a revelation from God that the verse should be removed. After repenting of the error, Muhammad was comforted by God.

Such "after the fact corrective revelations" are very common with cults. Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormons also received an "after the fact corrective revelation" from God retracted the previous "divine command" allowing polygamy.

The historical information confirming the "Satanic verses" is so vast and sure, only the desperate blind would deny the evidence. Undeniably factual information regarding the Satanic verses comes from respected Muslim scholars like at-Tabari and Ibn Sa’d who wrote biographical and historical accounts of the life of Muhammad.

Yet some Muslims actually reject the whole "daughter-gate" story as untrue. These are an extremist minority, you know, the ones who don't believe youth should be taught history or science, but spend 8 hours a day memorizing the Koran. Yet many Muslims are trained to habitually disregard factual world history when it conflicts with the Koran. Take the fact of Christ's crucifixion. Even the Jews agree he was crucified, but the Koran says it was a case of mistaken identity. So Muslims reject the universal record of history and the Bible, but believe the Koran is true. Amazingly, some Islamic apologists actually deny "daughter-gate" ever happened. Yet their only argument is, "The Koran says it cannot be tampered with and that Satan cannot interfere with the revelation process." So, these extremists must either admit that the final prophet revealed a Koranic passage whose origin was Satan, or simply rewrite their own history and deny the whole "daughter-gate" scandal itself.

Exactly what are the Satanic verses:

Here is how the Koran once read with the satanic verses:

Here is how it reads today in the Koran:

Near it is the Garden of Abode. Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!) (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest! Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat?

Near it is the Garden of Abode. Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!) (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest! Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat?

These are the exalted cranes (intermediaries) Whose intercession is to be hoped for.

[Words of Satan Deleted]

What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! (an-Najm 53:19-22)

What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! (an-Najm 53:19-22)

^^^^^

Ignoramus, here is what Tabari says:

1- About the Book, Tarīkh ar-Rusul wal-Maluk, commonly known as Tarīkh al-Tabari: First of all we ought to know that Tarīkh al-Tabari is not a Hadith book but only a history book thus its authenticity level is far below than any Hadith book. Infact it is one of the earlier books giving much raw material about the life of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) and generations immediately after him. Everything in it is not necessarily true.


Imam Tabari himself writes in his preface (Muqaddama) to the book. "Let him who examines this book of mine know that I have relied, as regards everything I mention therein which I stipulate to be described by me, solely upon what has been transmitted to me by way of reports which I cite therein and traditions which I ascribe to their narrators, to the exclusion of what may be apprehended by rational argument or deduced by the human mind, except in very few cases. This is because knowledge of the reports of men of the past and of contemporaneous views of men of the present do not reach the one who has not witnessed them nor lived in their times except through the accounts of reporters and the transmission of transmitters, to the exclusion of rational deduction and mental inference. Hence, if I mention in this book a report about some men of the past, which the reader of listener finds objectionable or worthy of censure because he can see no aspect of truth nor any factual substance therein, let him know that this is not to be attributed to us but to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us." (Tarīkh al-Tabari 1/3)

He has only rendered what he heard and he left it to us, the readers, to examine the truth of statements through internal & external examination and rational testing.

2-Internal Examination:

Now let‟s try to read that words which according to this story Holy Prophet (PBUH) allegedly recited with its context. The words in bold are the words which the Holy Prophet (PBUH) allegedly recited; "Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat?" "These are exalted goddesses; indeed their intercession may be accepted." "What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever).


They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire! - Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!" (Al-Qur‟an 53:19-23 with that supposed statement inserted in italic) Now any one can observe, unless he is a cynic, that these words no where fit in the context. How it be that first those pagan deities are praised and in the very next verse condemned that you attribute females to God? And if the story is true than were all the ever criticizing Pagans of Quraysh out of their senses that they prostrated along with Muhammad on the premise that he had praised their deities? What non-sense can be greater than this? This passage if read along with those alleged verses spoken by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is meaning less.

Keep telling your lies, bro.

You can only deceive the gullible.

Thanks.

Keep telling your lies!!! 

You can only deceive the gullible.

But please permit me to LOVE all Mulims, as I do. 

Disagreement is not = Hate   

Since I have NEVER abused you personally, do not take it personal 

As for Mo. well we all know he was not the promised prophet. 

Peace bro. 


Thanks,

Brother FROSBEL.

frosbel:

Historical notes:

It is an undeniable fact of history that before Muhammed was born, the moon god "al-Ilah" (Allah) had three daughters named al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. The first two were even named after their father. Each daughter had a separate shrine near Mecca, where Allah's shrine was located.

As Muhammad grew weary from evangelizing his new religion with little success, he was tricked by the devil into adding a verse in the Koran that commanded Muslims to pray to Allah's three pagan daughters Lat, Uzza and Manat. The pagan female trinity was immediately accepted without dissent and the passage was considered part of the revealed Koran. However some time later, Muhammad got a revelation from God that the verse should be removed. After repenting of the error, Muhammad was comforted by God.

Are you cursed with Lies? even the story you told is not how it occurs in Tabaris book of history, in fact what was written was that there were additions that were slipped into his recitation and was not his deliberate addition. when Christians want to lie they usually refuse to quote sources nor even gie a proper account of what was written, and what is your form of trinity called? Pagan Male trinity right? you are very "intelligent" to be wasting your talents here may I recommend stand up comedy.

frosbel:

Exactly what are the Satanic verses:

Here is how the Koran once read with the satanic verses:

Here is how it reads today in the Koran:

Near it is the Garden of Abode. Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!) (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest! Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat?

Near it is the Garden of Abode. Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!) (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest! Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat?


These are the exalted cranes (intermediaries) Whose intercession is to be hoped for.

we need links to verify your claims. Failure, will verify you to be a Liar

This is what is found in Tabari:


"According to al-Tabari, When the Messenger of God saw how his tribe turned their backs on him and was grieved to see them shunning the message he had brought to them from God, he longed in his soul that something would come to him from God which would reconcile him with his tribe. With his love for his tribe and his eagerness for their welfare it would have delighted him if some of the difficulties which they made for him could have been smoothed out, and he debated within himself and fervently desired such an outcome. Then God revealed: By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is he deceived; nor does he speak out of (his own) desire . . . and when he came to the words: Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-‘Uzza and Manat, the third, the other?

Satan cast on his tongue, because of his inner debates and what he desired to bring to his people, the words: These are the high-flying cranes; verily their intercession is accepted with approval. (Al-Tabari, p. 108)" The polytheists were delighted that Muhammad had at last approved of their gods. To return the kindness, they "prostrated themselves because of the reference to their gods which they had heard, so that there was no one in the mosque, believer or unbeliever, who did not prostrate himself" (p. 109). Muhammad’s friendly relations with the polytheists were short-lived, however, for he soon learned that his verses praising pagan idols came not from God, but from Satan. Saddened to recognize his treachery against Allah, Muhammad lamented: "I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken" (p. 111). Yet "Gabriel" comforted Muhammad, informing him that all prophets fall for Satan’s tricks from time to time. This staggering and unbelievable claim even found its way into the Qur’an: "And We did not send before you any Messenger or prophet, but when he desired, the Shaitan made a suggestion respecting his desire; but Allah annuls that which the Shaitan casts, then does Allah establish His communications, and Allah is Knowing, Wise." (Surah 22:52)"

3. Evidence; No credible reporter:

All these points are so strong and quieting that we need not to look for the reliability of its narrators as this cant be true in any case no matter how strong the chain of narrators may be. But only to give another blow to already fragile references of Christians who use this story let us have a look on the opinions of great scholars about its line of transmission; Ibn Kathir said; „All the links of this Tradition are unauthentic and I have found no correct version of this with continuous links.‟ (Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir 5/441-442) Shaukani says, „There is nothing true in it and none of its links is proved.‟ (Fath al-Qadeer 5/128) Ibn Jawzi says: „This is not correct.‟ (Zaad al-Muyassar 4/391) When Ibn Khuzaimah was asked about it, he said, "This story has been invented by heretics". (Tafsir al-Raazi 11/134) Baihaqi said; "This story has not been proved to be correct by the rules of reporting". (Tafsir a-Raazi 11/135) Qazi `Ayad says, "The very fact that this tradition is neither contained in any of the authentic collections of Hadith nor has it been related in an authentic way by authentic reporters shows its weakness". (Al-Shifa 2/125) Besides them, Imam Razi (in his Tafsir 11/135), Qazi Abu Bakr Ibn al-`Arabi (Al-Shifa 2/126), Alusi (in his Tafsir 13/99) etc. have rejected it altogether.

Jesus and the tale of the Devil in the NT


"Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
" (Matthew 4:1) & "Being forty days tempted of the devil."
(Luke 4:2) Though he didn't fall into the trap of the Devil but he was tempted.
No Christian can challenge this for it is in his own book of Authority. We Muslims don't even say this.
Its Bible. And about God we know that Bible says;
"God cannot be tempted with evil." (James 1:13)



[size=18pt]Now reading these three verses makes it clear that even according to the Bible Jesus (peace be upon him) is not God for God cannot be tempted with evil and Jesus was, according to the gospels, tempted of evil. Remember Jesus (PBUH) said; "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (John 8:32) The fact is that it is Bible which refutes elementary Christian beliefs.[/size]

@frosbel; may Allah make you live long, so that you may have a long period to discover Islam. Amin.

[Quote]Exactly what are the Satanic verses:

Here is how the Koran once read with the satanic verses:

Here is how it reads today in the Koran:

Near it is the Garden of Abode. Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!) (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest! Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat?

Near it is the Garden of Abode. Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!) (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest! Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat?

These are the exalted cranes (intermediaries) Whose intercession is to be hoped for.

[Words of Satan Deleted]

What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! (an-Najm 53:19-22)

What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! (an-Najm 53:19-22)[/Quote]the bold[s] are your own addition and make belief and device, oh enemies of Pure Monotheism. from the bibles we see satan having great influence on Jesus of the bible. he influence Peter enough that Jesus actual called him satan. then satan influence Judas Iscariot to scheme and showed Jesus to the enemies. then Judas committed suicide under the influence of satan who did not him that repentance is the true way out.

no muslims with Muhammad [as] that satan was able to influence. lets talk about Muhammad [as] for a minute.

Allah guaranteed the purity of Quran, so much so that He told Muhammad to just listen because He will imprint or implant or impact it in or on his heart. we see how easy Quran is to memorize. it is the only book that self correct the reader or reciter.

to say Muhammad [as] said 'crane' is pure lie. The crane is not a bird that will survive in the desert. and is a very harsh desert without food resources for such a big bird. Only what is local were mentioned and used with the Quraishi when they were addressed personally. example is the surah of the elephant. Elephant was not known to them, but brought in as the military tank of today by Abraha the enemy of Allah.

the bird used to defeat the army was a tiny bird a little bigger than hummingbird with beaks strong enough to pick up grain of sand, the adequate bomb in that war.

how can crane be mentioned and what familiarity was it to the makkans,

If a person says the nigerian got pelted with heavy snow in august instead of rain or hail, we know that such a person has lied. this is the case with crane in makka.

worse is to say that Muhammad [as] as a person say something that will make him acknowledge idolatry is absurd. none of his arch enemies; Abu Lahab, his wife, Abu Jahal was reported to rejoice and join him from the moment he said to them idolatry is to be stopped.

no emigre returned from Ethiopia, instead the continue to migrate out of makka. i can give you many more obvious proof that there is no satanic verse or verses. abrogated verses are kept still in the Quran; abrogating speaking in Salah. Abrogating consumption of Alcohol.

The best evidence is the Capability of Allah; He is Most Capable. He promise to protect Quran and it is.

@Frosbel; i guess you are on summer break from the university?

don't join the rioters.

!

salisuammy:

this maybe the last thing i will say.@ vedaxcool you are recommending stand up comedy so u can kill him( boko haram like you)
sweetnecta what am trying to say is that u people are hypocrites who are only holy during ramadan. have u ever heard a pastor preaching to his congregation to be holy only during fasting? No, but u so called imams preach on every station telling u people to be holy and do good in the ramadan period, so tell me now what does this mean? Simple, that u can go back to your evil ways immediately after your useless ramadan. I know muslims who break fast and start smoking or looking for women immediately. BUT KNOW THAT THE LAST DAY WILL TELL but my pain is that it will BE TOO LATE FOR YOU PEOPLE TO REPENT

at least our imams do not abuse underage "altar" boys in the mosques.
at least muslims still strive to do good and you need to emulate them.at least muslims do not only pray once a week.lol

^^^^^^^

Regarding Prayer,

"And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetitions as the Gentiles ( Pagans )  do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you." Matthew 6:6-8

"Peter sent them all out of the room; then he got down on his knees and prayed. Turning toward the dead woman, he said, "Tabitha, get up." She opened her eyes, and seeing Peter she sat up." - Acts 9:40

To be honest I am not sure what god Muslims pray to , that on a Friday after prayer , they go to kill, riot and destroy lives and property. Many of them carry daggers to the mosque. What kind of god are they praying to , that requires the instant death of infidels'  when they prove Muhammad wrong 


This is what the bible says about such a god :

"Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain." - Daniel 11:37=39

what the Holy Quran says about prayer (salat)?:

[Holy Quran 23:1-2]Certainly will the believers have succeeded: They who are during their prayer humbly submissive

[Holy Quran 6:162-163] "Say, "My Salat (Contact Prayers), my worship practices, my life and my death, are all devoted absolutely to God alone, the Lord of the universe.  He has no partner. This is what I am commanded to believe, and I am the first to submit." 

[Holy Quran 17:110] Say, "Call Him GOD, or call Him the Most Gracious; whichever name you use, to Him belongs the best names." You shall not utter your Contact Prayers (Salat) too loudly, nor secretly; use a moderate tone.

[Holy Quran 29:45]  You shall recite what is revealed to you of the scripture, and observe the Contact Prayers (salat), for the Contact Prayers prohibit evil and vice. But the remembrance of GOD (through salat) is the most important objective. GOD knows everything you do.

[Holy Quran 98:5]  All that was asked of them was to worship GOD, devoting the religion absolutely to Him alone, observe the contact prayers (salat), and give the obligatory charity (Zakat). Such is the perfect religion.

^^^


Sure and soon after the prayers, you behead your enemies !!!


Now I understand - thanks.

frosbel:

^^^


Sure and soon after the prayers, you behead your enemies !!!


Now I understand - thanks.

if you are right,you'd have being dead by now.wouldnt you?

you're just a confused and spiritually empty miscreant roaming NL.

@the above discussed allegation about the story found in the sunni historical compilation by al-tabari refered to be the christian missionaries as the "satanic verses".internal evidence in the Holy Quran of the concerned verses cited and external evidence based on history and dates prove that the story recorded in sunni hadith cource is false and inconsistent with itself:


Question 43 

43. What is the Myth of Gharaniq or ‘The Satanic Verses’?:
by Ayatollah Makarem Shirazi

http://www.al-islam.org/180_questions_vol2/