Just wanna share my innermost thoughts on this because I have been a litile confused lately, I've been trying to put myself into "the mind of the atheist" in how I view the world.

I have been looking up at the sky a lot and I discovered that we are in a a kind of dome. Studied astronomy and discovered that there are way too many planets out there that our importance on this planet to me is insignificant. Take out our solar system today and the universe will not feel as if it has lost anything. Everything will continue just the way it has. . .Many solar systems have come and gone and yet the universe is just there, for ever expanding into space, for how long it will continue to expand I don't know. So this brings me to the question of existence of God.

I have also been looking around at various aspects of nature trying to see exactly where God is. While doing this, I came up with a thought provoking question and challenged myself by asking myself this question.

When I look around the world, I see nature. I do not see the spiritual God anywhere. Now, one may say God is evidenced in creation, but for the sake of this question, I am trying to look for the actual spirit of where God might be hanging out. And personally i do not see a God that interacts with his creation any where, all I see are organisms and forces of nature acting on each other alone.

My thought can be summed up as thusly:

"When I look around the world, I see no spiritual beings. Likewise, atheists look around the world and see no spiritual beings as well. Why then must we come up with a God explanation and defend it very rigorously when we all look around and can see nothing? Why must we come up with all these excuses such as 'Oh God doesn't do x and x and x because of y and y and y?' Every single person that lived in the past saw the exact same world that we see today and saw it behave the same way we do today. Yet, despite all the thousands of years of history and God debates, we are still using the same arguments and discussion as man did hundreds to thousands of years ago. Why even start inventing reasons and excuses for something that we can't even see?"

I can not answer this question no matter how hard I try. Putting aside all personal religious beliefs and just looking around the world around me, has me dumbfounded.

Ancient man saw nothing different than we do today. many people that lived and died saw the same natural world where mindless forces are just acting out on their own for no particular purpose. It appears that nature has always been silent on the subject of God.

Why are we no closer to answering the question "Does God exist?" today than we were thousands of years ago?

Does God really exist and he's hiding? Do we truly believe so much that its our belief that is making us see, not necessarily because there is God?

Or is nature's silence on the subject proof he doesn't exist and we just make up excuses to justify the silence from nature? Am truly confused.

Nice one. I salute ur courage &boldness. Let me say this. God may decide to reveal hmself to u if he truly exist and may decide not to do same. Till then goodluck in ur search for answers

@OP

I think the first and most important step in any search is to know what it IS you are looking for. You need a clear, coherent, and meaningful definition of what God is. If you do not know what it is you are looking for then how can you possibly find evidence for it.

I posted this in another thread but I think it is appropriate here.

Let me elaborate what I mean through this example. Your mother tasks you you with going to the market to pick up a Mocor. When you ask her what a mocor is, when you asker her to define Mocor she says:
"It is what it is."
"It is everlasting."
"It is the light of my world!"
"It is the Greatest of all things!"
"It will make all your unhappiness disappear"
"There is no problem it cannot solve"
"It is love"
"It is free to take"
"It has no definition"
"It cannot be fully understood"

Although you get the impression that she considers a Mocor very important does any of this convey what exactly it IS she is talking about. Even if you went to the market to look for it, would you know what it IS you are looking for? If the answer is no then, is it reasonable to go to the market to look for a Mocor even if you do not know what it IS you are looking for? In the same way, how is it reasonable to talk about/look for a God if we do not know what it IS we are talking about/looking for in the first place. Although there is more wrong with the definition given by the mother in this example, I hope that what I have said here helped clear things up.

I admire ur constructive question. Let me ask u dis question. Do u realy tink everytin in d world just came 2 b, d sky, d ocean, mountain and wat av u. Also av u heard of strange powers lik d occult, witches, mermaid, ifa, amadioha nd odas nd av u com in contact with any of dis, my dear, we belif in difer tins as gods bt i tel u God exist. Rememba It is only a fool dat says there is no God

dalaman:

Just wanna share my innermost thoughts on this because I have been a litile confused lately, I've been trying to put myself into "the mind of the atheist" in how I view the world.

That's a nice start.

dalaman:

I have been looking up at the sky a lot and saying and I discovered that we are in a a kind of dome. Studied astronomy and discovered that there are way too many planets out there that our importance on this planet to me is insignificant. Take the our solar system today and the universe will not feel as if it has lost anything. Everything will continue just the way it has. . .Many solar systems have come and gone and yet the universe is just there, for ever expanding into space, for how long it will continue to expand I don't know. So this brings me to the question of existence of God.

I have also been looking around at various aspects of nature trying to see exactly where God is. While doing this, I came up with a thought provoking question and challenged myself by asking myself this question.

When I look around the world, I see nature. I do not see the spiritual God anywhere. Now, one may say God is evidenced in creation, but for the sake of this question, I am trying to look for the actual spirit of where God might be hanging out. And personally i do not see a God that interacts with his creation any where, all I see are organisms and forces of nature acting on each other alone.

My thought can be summed up as thusly:

"When I look around the world, I see no spiritual beings. Likewise, atheists look around the world and see no spiritual beings as well. Why then must we come up with a God explanation and defend it very rigorously when we all look around and can see nothing? Why must we come up with all these excuses such as 'Oh God doesn't do x and x and x because of y and y and y?' Every single person that lived in the past saw the exact same world that we see today and saw it behave the same way we do today. Yet, despite all the thousands of years of history and God debates, we are still using the same arguments and discussion as man did hundreds to thousands of years ago. Why even start inventing reasons and excuses for something that we can't even see?"

I can not answer this question no matter how hard I try. Putting aside all personal religious beliefs and just looking around the world around me, has me dumbfounded.

Ancient man saw nothing different than we do today. many people that lived and died saw the same natural world where mindless forces are just acting out on their own for no particular purpose. It appears that nature has always been silent on the subject of God.

Why are we no closer to answering the question "Does God exist?" today than we were thousands of years ago?

Actually, I think we are in a better position to answer whether some particular God exists. As Idehn has pointed out, it simply depends on what you're referring to as God. e.g many once thought the Egyptian pharaohs were Gods. Now, we can pretty much show that they do not exist.

dalaman:

Does God really exist and he's hiding? Do we truly believe so much that its our belief that is making us see, not necessarily because there is God?

Maybe, the problem is that the Gods worshiped by many people on Earth shouldn't be hiding. His doing that would make him a sort of trickster.

dalaman:

Or is nature's silence on the subject proof he doesn't exist and we just make up excuses to justify the silence from nature? Am truly confused.

I think nature's silence on the subject simply indicates that he is not needed as an explanation.

dankol:

I admire your constructive question. Let me ask u dis question. Do u realy tink everytin in d world just came 2 b, d sky, d ocean, mountain and wat av u. Also av u heard of strange powers lik d occult, witches, mermaid, ifa, amadioha nd odas nd av u com in contact with any of dis, my dear, we belif in difer tins as gods bt i tel u God exist. Rememba It is only a fool dat says there is no God

The existence of the world, the sky, the oceans, mountain and even human beings is not evidence for the existence of god. This is the classic "god of the gaps" arguement. It goes something like this - we cannot explain how something happened, therefore, god did it. This kind of argument is designed to prevent knowledge. Until the germ theory of disease was accepted, people thought that illnesses like cholera and so on were the results of sinful behaviour. When it became accepted in enlightened circles, there were clergymen who decried it because it took the mystery out of disease.

As far as occult, witches, mermaids, ifa and all that nonsense, have you personally experienced any such crap? Even if you have, that would not be accepted as evidence that god exists, as your personal experience does not amount to anything.

Only a fool would accept things without evidence.

You can check here , and learn a little more

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-717015.0.html

@ OP

I will agree with you on one thing and this is belief is what makes people see what isn't there. . . . . You've heard the phrase seeing is believing. Well, I believe the opposite. . . . . Believing is seeing and that's the problem! If you believe hard enough you might start to "see" things that aren't actually there. Take the Africans that believe in ancestral worship for example, they are so much consumed in their beliefs that most of them see, feel and interact with their dead ancestors. . . .The human brain is a very powerful thing because it can make you see things that are not there, once you believe something so much it simply becomes your reality regardless of weather its true or not. . . .There is actual no evidence to show that any of the Gods that men worship are real. . . .All Gods are man made. . .And as such no God can be shown to exist on its own, independent of human writings, stories, beliefs etc. . . .When pressed to show that the various Gods they worship exist all they do is point to books written by humans, as words of God. . . .The fact is this books were written by the men that gave birth to what ever concept of God that they are trying to sell to others.

There is no more evidence for Allah God than there is for Jehovah God or Ra God. They are all human constructs to help them explain the world and create social systems. . . . .People just keep creating this God concept all the time, its very true especially when one considers the amount of different conceptions of God that exist, even within Christianity, leave alone outside it. . . .Most people believe in the God or Gods they were told were real when they were very small and they grow to form and shape their reality around it.

Children are very credulous, it's a survival trait. Even if you tell them very odd and unlikely things, unless someone takes the trouble to tell them those odd things aren't true, they may continue to believe it the rest of their lives. I believe that religious faith is inherent antithetical to human reason and that applying higher intellectual faculties on one's religious faith would agitate one's faith as it would reveal the absurdity and incompatibility with reality and our empirical observations of the notion of a personal God.

You look at the world, don't see God, but yet you and your fellow Christians want to believe in God to the extent that you see one all the time.

Consider that:

Many people have believed in fairies and belief in fairies was once main stream belief in Europe. You look at the world and don't see fairies.

Many people have believed in a pantheon of Greek Gods. You look at the world and don't see Greek Gods.

Many people have believed in a vast pantheon of Hindu Gods. Yet you look at the world and don't see Hindu Gods.

Many people have believed in Ghosts. Yet you look at the world and don't see Ghosts.

Many people have believed in Sea Serpents and Centaurs and Mermaids. Yet you look at the world and don't see those either.

Many people (in India) believe in a constant flux of miracles, apparitions, of holy men and miracle workers. But you look at the world and don't see those.

Many Catholics believe in the spiritual visits of Mary. You look at the world and don't see those either.

See a pattern?

Its the belief in God/Gods that is real not the God/Gods themselves because they remain imaginary. . .

Of course He exists. How else could the world have come to be? Look at complex organs like the human eye or the appendix. Could such things just appear randomly? Could a 747 jet just assemble itself without a higher power designing it? Of course there is a creator, an intelligent designer.

There is so much evidence that the universe and all life in it was made by the invisible, undetactable force known to the wise as the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Only f00ls deny His existence. Only bigger f00ls ascribe His works to that buffoonish "God" character who features so prominently in the Bible and the Qu'ran.

Brethren, abandon your false gods. For only the Flying Spaghetti Monster is deserving of your worship. Once you are touched by His noodly appendage, you can never be the same.

@Op and co.

Why not be bold enough to take it a little further, why pick only on God. There are other things that people talk about, and I'm sure that you haven't seen any of those things. Love, feelings, intentions, emotions, energy, time, thoughts, air, and etc. These things do not exist either, because nobody has ever seen them. But I know that you can say that you have personally felt these things. But what about things like black holes, anti-matter, and even the big slam? Have you ever seen any of these? No! So they dont exist, or they never exsisted.

I live in an apartment in California, but I have never seen the designer of my apartment; therefore he does not exist. The adage "seeing is believing" is a metaphor that should not be taken literally; science has proved that majority of existence is actually invisible to the Unclad eyes.

God should spend His time and energy following you and giving you signs to prove to you that He exists? Talk about an inflated feeling of self-importance.

Thanks

dont know if the op wants to see a huge face in the sky which he can call God.

The insignificance of the earth in respect to the rest of the world does not preclude the existence. Look at it this way,The existence of the universe is evidence of the existence of a creator:: Let's look at it logically::


We use cell phones to communicate, This is enabled by electro-magnetic  waves:: We can't see it but we know it exists. So the fact the we can't see everything around us does not mean there is no Creator:'

Now let's examine the creation. You will agree with me that this Universe had a beginning. We do not live in an infinite universe, stars are born and stars die. The  Universe as a whole had a starting point ( the big b?ang?).

Common logic tells you that whatever begins to exist has a cause, If you walk through a desert and you see a foot print. You know someone passed there.
Therefore, since the Universe began to exist, so the universe has a cause.

Now we have proven that the universe has a cause but we have not proven that God is the creator.

Now this cause must  be finite and singular because the possibility of an infinite cause makes no sense because infinity has no definition in reality and the cause must be singular because multiple causes would create a world in chaos.

dalaman:

Just wanna share my innermost thoughts on this because I have been a litile confused lately, I've been trying to put myself into "the mind of the atheist" in how I view the world.

I have been looking up at the sky a lot and saying and I discovered that we are in a a kind of dome. Studied astronomy and discovered that there are way too many planets out there that our importance on this planet to me is insignificant. Take the our solar system today and the universe will not feel as if it has lost anything. Everything will continue just the way it has. . .Many solar systems have come and gone and yet the universe is just there, for ever expanding into space, for how long it will continue to expand I don't know. So this brings me to the question of existence of God.

I have also been looking around at various aspects of nature trying to see exactly where God is. While doing this, I came up with a thought provoking question and challenged myself by asking myself this question.

When I look around the world, I see nature. I do not see the spiritual God anywhere. Now, one may say God is evidenced in creation, but for the sake of this question, I am trying to look for the actual spirit of where God might be hanging out. And personally i do not see a God that interacts with his creation any where, all I see are organisms and forces of nature acting on each other alone.

My thought can be summed up as thusly:

"When I look around the world, I see no spiritual beings. Likewise, atheists look around the world and see no spiritual beings as well. Why then must we come up with a God explanation and defend it very rigorously when we all look around and can see nothing? Why must we come up with all these excuses such as 'Oh God doesn't do x and x and x because of y and y and y?' Every single person that lived in the past saw the exact same world that we see today and saw it behave the same way we do today. Yet, despite all the thousands of years of history and God debates, we are still using the same arguments and discussion as man did hundreds to thousands of years ago. Why even start inventing reasons and excuses for something that we can't even see?"

I can not answer this question no matter how hard I try. Putting aside all personal religious beliefs and just looking around the world around me, has me dumbfounded.

Ancient man saw nothing different than we do today. many people that lived and died saw the same natural world where mindless forces are just acting out on their own for no particular purpose. It appears that nature has always been silent on the subject of God.

Why are we no closer to answering the question "Does God exist?" today than we were thousands of years ago?

Does God really exist and he's hiding? Do we truly believe so much that its our belief that is making us see, not necessarily because there is God?

Or is nature's silence on the subject proof he doesn't exist and we just make up excuses to justify the silence from nature? Am truly confused.

Bollocks! Lack of EVIDENCE! Proof God practically.

Unless God is as I always defined ti: GOD: The mathematical codes behind nature and the infinite complex possibilities of the universe

We'll keep discovering god & and our environment through science. Infact maybe science/technology should be god. Rather worship a practical god

@postee, he/she/it exists only in peoples heads because they have been brainwashed with the false ideology from childhood. I have opened a thread on nairaland and it's rival forum and it's been over a year my questions remain unanswered. Truth is, how can you answer what you have no idea of? Pathetic if you ask me

tbaba1234:

Now this cause must  be finite and singular because the possibility of an infinite cause makes no sense because infinity has no definition in reality and the cause must be singular because multiple causes would create a world in chaos.

So what ever is responsible for the existence is finite and singular?. . . . .Your evidence for these baseless speculation is what?. . . .

The funny things is that when it come to God the believers are now CONSTANTLY relegating their God to the realm of the UNKNOWN. . . . . .So funny. . .When you read their various religious books, the books tell us exactly how their various Gods are forever present in the lives of those that belief and how they are supposed to interact with them and make them do certain things that makes them separate from others so that people will see and believe. . .We are told that such Gods interact with humans, love humans, and are supposed to be evident in the life of the believers. . .What do we see when we look around? We only see people living according to a particular culture or laid down rules written in particular books and that's it. . . .So am always amused when believers make their God less than advertised because it is convenient for them. . . .

Suddenly, the all-powerful God isn’t so all-powerful, just so you can excuse its actions, or the God that was written to have lived in the sky where some people built tall towers to see him is now outside the universe. . . .Long before the discovery of the galaxies(with its many stars and planets) most people thought God existed in the skies and comes down to interact with humans, now that we have better knowledge of the universe, the God that interacts with humans have been relegated to the deist God that is ONLY the creator of the universe because we don't really know how the universe came about, if some day humans discover how the universe came about, the God believers will come up with another lie to perpetuate their beliefs. . . .Very funny. . . .


The funny thing is that believers often define God in such a way that they eliminate their own potential defeaters to the "no evidence" argument. In other words their definition of God is its own worst enemy.

For example:-

Believer: You won't expect to see evidence for God - He's invisible
Atheist : But he's supposed to be omnipotent - He can make himself visible.
Believer: Why should he make Himself visible just for you?
Atheist : Because he's supposed to love me and want a personal relationship with me.

tbaba1234:

The insignificance of the earth in respect to the rest of the world does not preclude the existence. Look at it this way,The existence of the universe is evidence of the existence of a creator:: Let's look at it logically::

This is begging the question. The existence of the universe does not provide evidence for either proposition. The universe just is.

tbaba1234:

We use cell phones to communicate, This is enabled by electro-magnetic  waves:: We can't see it but we know it exists. So the fact the we can't see everything around us does not mean there is no Creator:'

Now let's examine the creation. You will agree with me that this Universe had a beginning. We do not live in an infinite universe, stars are born and stars die. The  Universe as a whole had a starting point ( the big b?ang?).

We know that electro-magnetic waves exist. the question is - how do we know that it exists? Not because a 'holy book' tells us so, but because persons who are far more knowledgeble in this field than me have tested the proposition that electro-magnetic waves exist using the scientific method. This is the method that theists claim should not be used to try to determine the existence or otherwise of god, because "god is beyond science".

Your use of the word "creation" is, of course, loaded. It implies that the universe was willed into being. Why should this be the case?

tbaba1234:

Common logic tells you that whatever begins to exist has a cause, If you walk through a desert and you see a foot print. You know someone passed there.
Therefore, since the Universe began to exist, so the universe has a cause.

Now we have proven that the universe has a cause but we have not proven that God is the creator.

Common logic does not tell me any such thing. As far as the universe is concerned, I do not know. But if one accepts what you say, then the cause of the universe itself must have a cause. We could go on finding causes for ever.

tbaba1234:

Now this cause must  be finite and singular because the possibility of an infinite cause makes no sense because infinity has no definition in reality and the cause must be singular because multiple causes would create a world in chaos.

I have tried to understand this sentence. I am afraid, it is beyond comprehension.

Zodiac61:

I have tried to understand this sentence. I am afraid, it is beyond comprehension.

The sentence means the world and the  universe as a whole are just so perfect and that such perfection can only come from a singularity (God). Apart from the sentence not making any sense, the people who think like this only see rainbows, butterflies, puppies and cute little babies ( the beautiful things) while ignoring the starving 2 year old in somalia or the Sun's ultra violet rays that cause skin cancer, or leukemia or malaria etc. They are are willfully ignorant of the less savoury things in nature and when confronted with such, they just blame it on some supernatural causes they culled from one ancient book or the other.


@OP
Gods are superhuman beings made up by different human cultures in order to explain natural phenomenon,alleviate their fear of mortality and helps them to resolve their existential angst . Gods only exist for those who believe in them and are put in the same category as unicorns, dragons and superheroes by those who do not. 

Regarding the so called perfection in nature, especially the human eye that some people on this site claim to be so perfect and had to be made by their brand of god, here's an excerpt from an article fromTufts university's archives.

[b]Blind spot
Critics of Darwin like to ask how something so complex and as apparently perfect as the eye could
possibly have evolved gradually, and the man himself devoted several pages of later editions of
On the Origin of Species to refuting their arguments. Perhaps he need not have worried. Eyes are
complex, but their structure reveals the unplanned nature of evolution.
The most famous flaw is found in vertebrate eyes. Their light-sensing structure, the retina, is wired
up back-to-front, with the light-sensitive cells behind the nerves and blood vessels that support it.
Not only does light have to pass through this layer first, obscuring the image, but the nerves and
blood vessels have to dive through the retina, creating a blind spot in each eye.
In cephalopods, such as squid and octopuses, the eyes are built the "right" way around, so why
not in vertebrates too? The answer is that when eyes first evolved in the ancestors of modern
vertebrates, the retina arose from an in folding of the developing brain, and the cells that could
form light receptors happened to end up on the inside of this fold. "Once you have done
something like this it's very hard to change," says Michael Land, a specialist in eye physiology at
the University of Sussex, UK.
As always, evolution has made the best of a bad job. Vertebrates have a number of adaptations to
compensate for the ancestral blunder. One is the fovea in primates, a patch of retina where the
nerves and blood vessels are swept aside and which is jam-packed with light receptors. This has
to be kept small to ensure it gets enough oxygen, giving us fuzzy peripheral vision but sharp
central vision. "The cephalopod eye is not as good as ours," says Land. But again, birds have
outdone us, eliminating most blood vessels from the retina thanks to a structure called the pecten.
This means the animal with the sharpest eyesight of all is the hawk.
Verdict: Back-to-front retinas are a mistake whichever way you look at them.[/b]
http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/EvolGreatestMistakes-NewSci%20081107.pdf

Martian:

The sentence means the world and the universe as a whole are just so perfect and that such perfection can only come from a singularity (God). Apart from the sentence not making any sense, the people who think like this only see rainbows, butterflies, puppies and cute little babies ( the beautiful things) while ignoring the starving 2 year old in somalia or the Sun's ultra violet rays that cause skin cancer, or leukemia or malaria etc. They are are willfully ignorant of the less savoury things in nature and when confronted with such, they just blame it on some supernatural causes they culled from one ancient book or the other.


@OP
Gods are superhuman beings made up by different human cultures in order to explain natural phenomenon,alleviate their fear of mortality and helps them to resolve their existential angst . Gods only exist for those who believe in them and are put in the same category as unicorns, dragons and superheroes by those who do not.

Regarding the so called perfection in nature, especially the human eye that some people on this site claim to be so perfect and had to be made by their brand of god, here's an excerpt from an article fromTufts university's archives.

[b]Blind spot
Critics of Darwin like to ask how something so complex and as apparently perfect as the eye could
possibly have evolved gradually, and the man himself devoted several pages of later editions of
On the Origin of Species to refuting their arguments. Perhaps he need not have worried. Eyes are
complex, but their structure reveals the unplanned nature of evolution.
The most famous flaw is found in vertebrate eyes. Their light-sensing structure, the retina, is wired
up back-to-front, with the light-sensitive cells behind the nerves and blood vessels that support it.
Not only does light have to pass through this layer first, obscuring the image, but the nerves and
blood vessels have to dive through the retina, creating a blind spot in each eye.
In cephalopods, such as squid and octopuses, the eyes are built the "right" way around, so why
not in vertebrates too? The answer is that when eyes first evolved in the ancestors of modern
vertebrates, the retina arose from an in folding of the developing brain, and the cells that could
form light receptors happened to end up on the inside of this fold. "Once you have done
something like this it's very hard to change," says Michael Land, a specialist in eye physiology at
the University of Sussex, UK.
As always, evolution has made the best of a bad job. Vertebrates have a number of adaptations to
compensate for the ancestral blunder. One is the fovea in primates, a patch of retina where the
nerves and blood vessels are swept aside and which is jam-packed with light receptors. This has
to be kept small to ensure it gets enough oxygen, giving us fuzzy peripheral vision but sharp
central vision. "The cephalopod eye is not as good as ours," says Land. But again, birds have
outdone us, eliminating most blood vessels from the retina thanks to a structure called the pecten.
This means the animal with the sharpest eyesight of all is the hawk.
Verdict: Back-to-front retinas are a mistake whichever way you look at them.[/b]
http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/EvolGreatestMistakes-NewSci%20081107.pdf

You f00l, the Flying Spaghetti Monster created the human eye. He created all things.

I challenge you to prove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist. if you can't then just accept that you're wrong and bow down before him. He is a merciful monster, he will forgive your doubt.

@ Op. Your inquest is a complex one as no one can prove to you whether God exist or not. We are all applying blind faith in opposite directions. Checkout this scenario form both Atheistic and Theistic perspective

1. Yes God exist. How do i know? Because i believe without evidence>> Theist

2. No he doesn't. How do i know? Because i believe without evidence>> Atheist

But i personally believe you are not going to loose anything, if you later found out that truely God exist, probably when you are death. Its all gamble. Dont be on the loosing side. So hold on to your faith until you are personally convince.

davidylan:

Neither does the atheist have any empirical evidence that God doesnt exist at all . . . infact the only argument the atheist has is that the theist has not provided God's home address to him.

MyJoe:

That won't do. They'd want to shake hands.

Now, how such can qualify to be God in anyone's view beats me.

 

tbaba1234:

The insignificance of the earth in respect to the rest of the world does not preclude the existence. Look at it this way,The existence of the universe is evidence of the existence of a creator:: Let's look at it logically::


We use cell phones to communicate, This is enabled by electro-magnetic  waves:: We can't see it but we know it exists. So the fact the we can't see everything around us does not mean there is no Creator:'

Now let's examine the creation. You will agree with me that this Universe had a beginning. We do not live in an infinite universe, stars are born and stars die. The  Universe as a whole had a starting point ( the big b?ang?).

Common logic tells you that whatever begins to exist has a cause, If you walk through a desert and you see a foot print. You know someone passed there.

Actually, common logic does not tell you this. Also, you would need to explain what you mean by beginning to exist and cause.

tbaba1234:

Therefore, since the Universe began to exist, so the universe has a cause.

You may also know that all causes that we know are physical does this then mean that God is also physical? And which God are you referring to? What can you tell us about him other than your assertion that he created the universe?

tbaba1234:

Now we have proven that the universe has a cause but we have not proven that God is the creator.

Now this cause must  be finite and singular because the possibility of an infinite cause makes no sense because infinity has no definition in reality and the cause must be singular because multiple causes would create a world in chaos.

If the cause is finite, then what sort of God is it? Well two causes working in tandem wouldn't necessarily create a world in chaos.

Rhino.5dm:


1. Yes God exist. How do i know? Because i believe without evidence>> Theist

2. No he doesn't. How do i know? Because i believe without evidence>> Atheist

This in an attempt to claim that the athiest's position is a religious one. It is not. What the athiest is saying is that there has been no satisfactory evidence that points to the existence of god. When such falsifible evidence is provided, most athiests, being rationalists, would be willing to accept the existence of such a being. This of course would not answer the question of whether such a being would be the christian, muslim etc god.

Rhino.5dm:


But i personally believe you are not going to loose anything, if you later found out that truely God exist, probably when you are death. Its all gamble. Dont be on the loosing side.
 

Pascal's Wager - In my opinion, a very dishonest reason to worship god. Besides, this provides no evidence for the existence of god.

Mazaaaaa. . . .Yane. . .Let me disagree with you here. . .

Rhino.5dm:

@ Op. Your inquest is a complex one as no one can prove to you whether God exist or not. We are all applying blind faith in opposite directions. Checkout this scenario form both Atheistic and Theistic perspective

1. Yes God exist. How do i know? Because i believe without evidence>> Theist

This is not completely true because when you observe the way two Christians or Muslims talk about God to each other is completely different from the way the talk about God to an atheist ,they don't talk about some vague deist concept, they talk about God as something that is very real and interacts with them regularly, you hear about testimonies of God telling them to do things, protecting them, guiding them, granting them favors, communicating with them. They always talk about their various religious experiences. God isn't an abstract figure but something that has a voice and speaks the human language for example and changes things in their favor. When you ask them for specific evidence like answered prayers then you begin to get confusing answers. . .Is there any evidence for example that Christians are better protected from harm and diseases or are richer or more successful than non Christians through answered prayers? The answer is NO. . . .

Is there any evidence that Allah protects Muslims and Islam for the attacks of non Muslims? The answer is NO. . .Muslims truly believe that Allah fights along them when they are carrying out Jihad and they talk about it all the time, but they are always being defeated by the non Muslims and non Muslims are presently occupying their lands and killing them all the time, yet they still believe and talk about Allah being on their side and fighting for them all the time. They point to such as an example of his existence. How can the creator of the universe be on your side, fighting along with you and still end up being defeated and your lands occupied? No evidence to show that any particular religious experience is greater than another.  Belief is what drives all these things. What I find amusing is when you ask religious people specific questions about their God whom they claim talks to them and is in a relationship with them. . .They very quickly drop all their claims of being in a relation ship with their God and start asking you questions about the origin of gravity, origin of matter, origin of man or the origin of the universe. . .Relegating the very God they were telling you speaks to them or answer their prayers to the realm of the unknown because they very well that they are not sincere with themselves. Suddenly the God that is supposed to be controlling human affairs is now the God of the unknown because no body knows the origin of matter. . .That is the highest level of dishonesty IMO. . . 

2. No he doesn't. How do i know? Because i believe without evidence>> Atheist

NO, atheist don't believe without evidence atheist are not arguing about weather the universe was created or not because no body knows how the universe came about, what it is, where it is expanding into. Atheist are arguing about specific Gods. . .Gods like Allah, Yahweh, Ra, Zeus, all the pantheon of the Greek Gods, pantheon of Hindu Gods etc. . .All these Gods don't exist in reality, they are a creation of men, that is why you can't point to them, you can only point to what men have said they did, or  what men have written about them or what men said they will do or how men have stated they they act or behave. . . .Take away the Koran and its stories about Allah ,a book that was written by men to serves as a mind control unto other men and Allah ceases to exist. . .Take way the bible and its stories about Jesus or Yahweh  and these God concept ceases to exist. . . .

But i personally believe you are not going to loose anything, if you later found out that truely God exist, probably when you are death. Its all gamble. Dont be on the loosing side. So hold on to your faith until you are personally convince.

For him not to lose anything he has to believe and worship every God to which there are many of them available, because every body is going to hell or going to lose out according to some one else' religion. . . The only advice is to do what will make him happy and give him peace of mind.If its his faith then fine. . .He should hold unto it because it makes him happy not for fear of the imaginary after life that has no evidence to support it but just a mere opinion of the ancient men that thought their Gods live in the sky. . .

NO, atheist don't believe without evidence atheist are not arguing about weather the universe was created or not because no body knows how the universe came about, what it is, where it is expanding into. Atheist are arguing about specific Gods. . .Gods like Allah, Yahweh, Ra, Zeus, all the pantheon of the Greek Gods, pantheon of Hindu Gods etc.

See as you just wide ya yansh for middle of national assembly, begin dey s.hit lie commot, you no get shame at all.

Atheism is a denial of the existence of God or gods - - - however defined!

Cretin!

@ MazaaaaaaJe! Kana to hutu abinka. . .

I understand what you are driving at and majority of what you posited is by taking consideration of different brands of God/s, which is not what i was insuniating.

My logic of God is the ability to decipher the deep massage of a supreme being,
irrespective of the religious dogma , and so many unverifiable claims by the Atheist.

I was able to infer that the world can not be perpectual and infinite, since we have witness extinction and hardly see any new creations.

@gray beard, for someone who boldly distorts the true essence of atheism, can you prove the existence of this god you believe in without regurgitating the garbage you've been brainwashed with from childhood? What is so hard to understand? Atheism is the disbelief in religion and it's myths/bedtime stories. We have NOTHING to prove to anyone coz we believe in NOTHING. You on the other hand has been spoon fed with religious garbage since you were a child and the only defence you have is what you are brainwashed with on a sunday-sunday basis. How pathetic! The same people who brought this religion took your forefathers away as slaves,brought guns and alcohol. How "divine" is that? The same people have moved on to another era of advancement while people like you are still puzzled by stories and myths of ancient normadic goat herders! How pitiful! What proof can you bring to the table to verify the existence of this god? Who is the cretin now? Huh? Na who open yansh for bus stop dey $hit diarrhea? Una go just dey run mouth without any knowledge of how una religion take start. Reetards! ! !

Gray Beard:



See as you just wide ya yansh for middle of national assembly, begin dey s.hit lie commot, you no get shame at all.

Atheism is a denial of the existence of God or gods - - - however defined!

Cretin!

harakiri:

Atheism is the disbelief in religion and it's myths/bedtime stories.

SHARRRRAP DIA! KONKOLO ILLITERATE.

You disembodied remnant of the shite of a quadripletic lizard.

Just look at the nonsense you have posted above. Who on earth defines atheism as "disbelief in religion and its myths". . . .? That is NOT the definition of atheism. I will not bother with such a hare-brained fellow as yourself since you claim to be an atheist without even knowing what atheism is!

No where on earth has atheism EVER been defined the way you defined it! You are a STARK AND RAVAING ILLITERATE LUNATIC.

For your education, here is the definition of atheism -

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[4][5] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[5][6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

M.O.R.O.N! Get an education before you come to interact with a wise old man like me.

Rhino.5dm:

@ MazaaaaaaJe! Kana to hutu abinka. . .

I understand what you are driving at and majority of what you posited is by taking consideration of different brands of God/s, which is not what i was insuniating.

My logic of God is the ability to decipher the deep massage of a supreme being,
irrespective of the religious dogma , and so many unverifiable claims by the Atheist.

I was able to infer that the world can not be perpectual and infinite, since we have witness extinction and hardly see any new creations.

Is there a Supreme being or supreme beings that is or are responsible for the existence of the universe? If yes does it or do they really have a message for mankind? Or are we just assuming that they do just to satisfy our own curiosity?. . . .People see spirits and ghosts and Gods etc once they truly believe in them. . .As I aforementioned believing is seeing. . . . . .

I think instead it's simply human nature to have these experiences. Our minds are complicated and our imaginations are vast. We fill in details, we see faces in the clouds, we see ghosts when it's dark, when we dream our minds are filled with magical places and impossible things. We don't remember things perfectly (sometimes completely wrong!) and our personalities change over time. Also, our knowledge of the world is terrible, particularly in the past. Thunder was explained as Zeus riding in his chariot in the sky. This isn't stupid per say sha, it's just an understandable attempt by humans to make sense of the world around them, and its a constant human thing.

Also we are all indoctrinated in our own culture. I am an Nigerian atheist, but if I were raised in Saudi Arabia and have never stepped out of the country to see how people live their lives in other parts of the world, I am very positive I'd be a Muslim now. But it's nearly impossible to detect this indoctrination in ourselves; it's part of our own minds. Supreme being or supreme beings are all part of the human conception, is there one one or are there many responsible for the existence of the earth,I don't know. . . .Assuming there are supreme bings responsible for the existence of the universe,  Do they interact with humans the way religion portrays? The answer is NO. . .

These reasons provide an extremely plausible explanation for why people would believe in magic even when magic doesn't actually exist. Indoctrination is the word here. . .

Gray Beard:

SHARRRRAP DIA! KONKOLO ILLITERATE.

You disembodied remnant of the shite of a quadripletic lizard.

Just look at the nonsense you have posted above. Who on earth defines atheism as "disbelief in religion and its myths". . . .? That is NOT the definition of atheism. I will not bother with such a hare-brained fellow as yourself since you claim to be an atheist without even knowing what atheism is!

No where on earth has atheism EVER been defined the way you defined it! You are a STARK AND RAVAING ILLITERATE LUNATIC.

For your education, here is the definition of atheism -

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[4][5] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[5][6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

M.O.R.O.N! Get an education before you come to interact with a wise old man like me.

Wise old man. .Na fight?. . . .

mazaje:

Wise old man. .Na fight?. . . .

No be fight, but the man does not even know the definition of the atheism he is parroting, and yet he can come here to try and abuse others as ignorant. . . .what a pr.ick

toba:

Nice one. I salute your courage &boldness. Let me say this. God may decide to reveal hmself to u if he truly exist and may decide not to do same. Till then goodluck in your search for answers

Has God reveled himself to you personally? Many people have made such claims to me but when I ask them about specifics, I always get confusing answers some get testy and insist that I just accept their assertions without any meaningful explanation. I sincerely hope that God will reveal himself to me because am so confused right now.