Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? - Religion - Nairaland
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| Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by Ishilove: 2:01pm On Sep 12, 2011 |
In the book of Gen 4: 1-17,we are given blow by blow account of how Cain,first born of Adam and Eve commited the first homicide recorded in the bible. God finds him out and exiles him. Cain leaves with a younger sister{??} and settles in Nod and has a son called Nod. Ok my questions are these: in the dialogue with God,Cain complains that his punishment is too harsh and "whoever" found him would kill him. God assured him that he would place a mark on him that would prevent "anyone" from harming him. Now Adam and Eve and their kids were the only ones on earth as at that time so who are the "whoever" that posed a threat to Cain? Were there people created besides Adam and Eve that Moses didn't record? Was it an error of translation? Was it malevolent demons roaming the earth that Cain was so terrified of and reffered to as "whoever"? Is it safe to say that Moses got it wrong? Cain left with his sister and had a child with her,so will it be safe to say that mankind are the descendants of incestuous relatives? Am i getting it all wrong? Please i will like Christians well grounded in the Word to share their views and opinion. Also the views of atheists,pagans and satanists are not welcome so please keep off. Thank you |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by Nobody: 2:08pm On Sep 12, 2011 |
I'm convinced that the book of Genesis is a history of the jews, somwhat a case study of them. |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by Ishilove: 2:19pm On Sep 12, 2011 |
parisienne:Aren't we all,jews inclusive, descended from Adam and Eve? |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by Nobody: 2:58pm On Sep 12, 2011 |
Hnmmm I hav no biblical backup for saying this but perhaps we r not all decendants of adam and eve. Jesus said "I came 4 the lost sheep of israel". I think the rest of us were "grafted" as the bible puts it. |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by Bidemi1997(f): 5:47pm On Sep 12, 2011 |
Go and buy the book of Jubilee and the book of Jasher you'll get the answer there. |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by lepasharon(f): 6:32pm On Sep 12, 2011 |
^ true. @ poster u r reading an incomplete bible, go nd buy king james 1611 bible it contains the apocrypha nd it will make more sence |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by Image123(m): 1:01am On Sep 13, 2011 |
The Bible contains all the information that we truly need. The whoevers were also descendants of Adam and Eve just like Cain. Eve is rightly called the mother of ALL living. |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by OLAADEGBU(m): 1:30am On Sep 13, 2011 |
Ishilove: Good question. Who else do you think would want to avenge the death of Abel if not for Abel's siblings or relatives? |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by Ishilove: 6:44am On Sep 13, 2011 |
Bidemi1997:Pray tell,what manner of books are these? lepasharon:Appocrypha?? |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by Ishilove: 7:01am On Sep 13, 2011 |
OLAADEGBU:Good point,but I really doubt this. It seems like Cain's contention was that he was going to be wandering about like a vagabond and rogue,therefore he was going to be vulnerable to threats that were ALREADY OUT THERE. If the threats were from his own family wouldn't it have been mentioned, just like the bible specifically mentioned that his wife was his sister, "one of Adam's offsprings"?. Gen 4:15 |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by LoveKing(m): 7:36am On Sep 13, 2011 |
OLAADEGBU: OLAADEGBU: lie lie lie,assumptions you cannot back up with facts. why do you lie? |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by tpia5: 11:24am On Sep 13, 2011 |
His question was in the future tense. Back then people lived longer- up to 900 years. The population was increasing and could be expected to increase more hence his apprehension. My opinion. |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by jayriginal: 11:58am On Sep 13, 2011 |
Ishilove:Paradoxically, those whom you have excluded know more about it than you think. However, since you only want to reason with "Christians" so be it. |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by Ishilove: 12:18pm On Sep 13, 2011 |
jayriginal:They have nothing to offer that is of interest to me tpia@:Interesting. |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by OLAADEGBU(m): 4:49pm On Sep 13, 2011 |
I see tpia's point which makes sense. There was at least 100 years between the time that Cain and Abel was born and and Abel's death during which time a lot of their descendants would have multiplied. It is only a relative that will see to avenge the death of their ancestor. Cain's Wife |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by lepasharon(f): 7:04pm On Sep 13, 2011 |
@ poster the info u need is in the apocrypha!! u can buy it seperatly the apocrypha are biblical books that were removed by the catholic church!! |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by PastorKun(m): 7:14pm On Sep 13, 2011 |
@lepasharon On the contrary the apocrypha is included in the catholic bible, it is the protestants that removed it from their own bible. That aside the answer cannot be in the apocrypha as it does not contain any accounts of the creation story, rather it falls at a period between the old and new testament. That aside there are several other books that give various accounts of the creation story that were left out of the bible like the book of enoch, the book of Adam and Eve, the book of jubilee, the book of eden e.t.c for instance that are not part of the apocrypha but were excluded from the bible for various reasons. |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by tpia5: 7:16pm On Sep 13, 2011 |
um. |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by NegroNtns(m): 10:53pm On Sep 13, 2011 |
@post, There are two interpretations to this question; one from the letter of the message and the other from the spirit of the message. 1. Literal interpretation. Tpia is correct in the following where Cain was forecasting the future. His question was in the future tense. 2. Spiritual Interpretation. The atrocity or crime was committed by the EGO. This is the post-EDEN state of being and of rebellion against GOD. In physical meaning it is the actualization of MAN. The confession and apprehension was the HUMILITY or state of repentance. This is the pre-EDEN state of being and the point in which ADAM was awakened or initiated into the cosmos and he was giving names to things. Here, he realized his own vulnerability and weakness and recognized and acknowledged the SUPREMACY of GOD. In Mercy and Forgiveness, GOD covered him against any danger. This is the stage of SUBMISSION - a reconciliation of matter (MAN) with the spirit (ADAM) and resulting in TRUTH or GOD. This spiritual interpretation is represented also in Islam. During the five daily prayers, a muslim stands upright - symbolising EGO; then he/she bows - symbolising HUMILITY; then he/she prostrates and touches the forehead (the inner spirit ADAM) to the ground or soil (matter from which MAN was created) - symbolising SUBMISSION TO GOD. |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by Ishilove: 12:20am On Sep 14, 2011 |
OLAADEGBU:I serioulsy doubt this. In the context which he spoke,it seems he was afraid that any rifraf out there could off him because he was going to be vulnerable as a vagabond,fugitive and wanderer. He was afraid becos he thot he was leaving God's radar,but God assured him to the contrary and placed a mark on him that might have well screamed "KEEP OFF!!". I believe if it was a veangeful relative that posed a threat to Cain,it wuld have been mentioned in the bible. If it was indeed a relative of Cain,then i make bold to say mankind is a product of incestous relatives. Adam and Eve the First Couple,had kids who married each other and multiplied the earth. Inbreeding This is so confusing. I feel there's a missing part which no one is seeing |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by Ishilove: 12:25am On Sep 14, 2011 |
@Negro_Ntns, rather interesting albeit puzzling premise |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by tpia5: 3:48am On Sep 14, 2011 |
this story/topic is far deeper than what can be discussed here. very interesting too. still trying to sort out the kinks which are difficult to understand. |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by Image123(m): 11:28am On Sep 14, 2011 |
There's nothing deep about Cain. It's as simple as what's in the Bible and that can be deduced. We are all products of Adam and Eve. Call am incest or insect, na you talk am. The children of Israel are also products of brother Abraham and his sister Sarah. There's nothing to be ashamed of in it and there was no stated law against it. There's time for everything. There was a time i sucked my mother's breast. If i did that now, it would be v.wrong. 2 Likes |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by tpia5: 6:47pm On Sep 14, 2011 |
Image123: actually, there is, imo. but nothing i want to share for now because people might not understand so there's no point. it's not esoteric or anything like that, in case you were wondering. |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by Image123(m): 7:24pm On Sep 14, 2011 |
ok |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by Ishilove: 4:27am On Sep 16, 2011 |
It goes to show that creation goes deeper than anyone can begin fanthom. There's lot more to the story than meets the eye |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by NegroNtns(m): 6:04pm On Sep 16, 2011 |
001: And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. There are many interpretations to this story. I respect and love the literal meanings in scriptures but I am particularly attuned to their mystical messages. Between verses 1 to 5, we also see the reversal of the seniority of birth, which later became a tradition with the children of israel, particularly with the episodes of Esau and Jacob when Jacob took the birthright of Esau from their father Isaac; Manasseh and Ephraim were brought by their father Joseph for blessings and where Jacob (now called Israel) again reversed the birthrights in his grandchildren. When Joseph attempted to correct him he explained the spritiual tradition to Joseph - the consecration of the first born to the Lord! That tradition continues with children of Israel till today. In another translation, it also gives the independence and inter-dependence of duality in nature - everything is independent but nothing is self-sufficient! I cannot discuss the topic here but suffice to say that illuminated mystics will tell you that GOD's presence is dual. There is GOD, and everything else which is not GOD. In other words, - a "HE" is; and a "HE" is not. We should pay close attention to duality of nature, it is the primary force of balance and order in the cosmos and all forces of nature subsist on it. |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by amor4ce(m): 12:59am On Oct 13, 2011 |
In my opinion, arriving at the answer would require an understanding of the word ADAM. By the way @poster, do you think the flood covered the whole of the earth? do you think the Khoisan were not walking on the earth at the same time as Cain and Abel? |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by OLAADEGBU(m): 10:03am On Oct 13, 2011 |
Sibling Rivalry |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by Sweetnecta: 2:06pm On Oct 13, 2011 |
If your Bible could not even lead you to why God told dam and Eve not to approach a specific tree, how can you be sure of anything when it comes to dealing with more people than the first 2 and in a more complex environment? No one needed to avenge the death of Habila [abel] from Kabila [Cain], his brother. No story of murder was narrated until it occurred after the flood. Just like illegal sexual relationship as a result of mingling and swinging occurred once between the people of the hills and the valleys, which the bible erroneously called [sons of God and daughters of men episode], before the flood and rekindled with much horror in it at the scene of Sodom and Gomorrah. The only major sin that didn't occur and was the only sin at the flood is idolatry/image worshiping. The Bible sweetened the calamity of Cain by creating an idea that there is an avenger lurking to snatch him off. The family of Adam and Eve knew that their father, Adam was there prophet [as] and warned them against any and all types of evil and no one repeated it, the reason that the sin of the flood of Noah was idolatry. Surah Nuh [Chapter 71], verse 23 gave the names of the previous pious people who have been made into object of worship, similar to what the Christians refined on Jesus [as]. And said, 'Never leave your gods and never leave Wadd or Suwa' or Yaghuth and Ya'uq and Nasr. No sin is desired to be imitated, unless by a person who has some element of disbelief when he/she engages in it. Cain gets a share of every murder committed because he was the first and was not a true repentant. The opposite of that is Joseph gets a share of every reward of not engaging in illegal sex. Adam and Eve were opposite in position to Satan [lanatUllah] because instead of seeking repentance he piled on on sin, arrogance and pride. Incomplete bible? Olaadegbu, you see whats happening to your point of reference? It is incomplete they said, above. |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by trolling(m): 7:10am On Feb 27, 2013 |
Cain was "marked" or "preserved" for perdition just as Peter said Yah reserves ungogly for wrath(paraphrasing).You should understand that we as humans are convicted in our heart when we sin,Cain knew what he did merited death, so he spoke in future sense because he knew within himself that he would be killed for his sin against Abel by humans in his lifetime ,if you go back and read about Lamech who had two wives,he also said he would be visited seven fold because had wounded a man to his hurt(paraphrasing). You can call it incest because if that didnt happen then how would Adam multiply,we wouldnt be here today but when we were given our constituton at Mr Horeb, we were instructed not reveal the neaknedness of our kin. 1 Like |
| Re: Who Were Those Cain Was Referring To? by Nobody: 9:11am On Feb 27, 2013 |
So, I wonder how Ishilove remained a christian after these questions. Well, she did say that she didnt want explanations from atheists/pagans. She wanted to be insulated from the truth and accept any flimsy explanation 1 Like |
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