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Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by bebrief(m): 10:48pm On Feb 16, 2012 |
@Siena, in my own case, I grinded off the welded spring platform like you said, and welding it back about 1" higher to the strut. And to avoid any damage to the tube it was colled off with water as the welding is done. This works perfectly well. As I said, a good mechanic workshop does this well. If you reside in Abuja then visit Apo mechanic village. |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by icemann(m): 11:04pm On Feb 16, 2012 |
Siena: Traction control Kicks in. And you don't roll over That was a joke LOL |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by Nobody: 11:12pm On Feb 16, 2012 |
bebrief: Cooling welded steel with water is bad practice. It makes the welds brittle. Welded steel is best allowed to cool naturally. It's not too bad if the welded steel is not load-bearing. In this case, it is. What do you do about the damper ram? You can't extend it any further. So this means the spring has to be compressed beyond its normal compression rate to fit. Driving a car this way to the East isn't the issue here. Hitting an unexpected bump mid-corner is. That spring is seriously over loaded, and that welded platform is under serious strain. Coil springs fracture under normal conditions, it happens. If a coil snaps whilst under such strain whilst the car's on the move (motorway speeds) the results could be catastrophic. The best solution is to get custom springs the same length as the originals, but with higher compression rates. In short, stiffer. This means the ride height will remain unchanged, the extra poundage will discourage excessive "dive" over bumps and pot holes. Or simply buy an old Land Rover, or Toyota Land Cruiser for bad terrain. 2 Likes |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by Nobody: 11:13pm On Feb 16, 2012 |
icemann: Bro, you don kolo. |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by icemann(m): 11:24pm On Feb 16, 2012 |
Wallie: Let me make it a lot easier for you to answer 1. Will My traction change if i raise my car? how and why? 2. can my current wheel base give me a good center of gravity when its raised, and what do i do to compensate for the Center of Gravity changes? 3. Will a wider tire give me more traction even at bends, do i experience Energy losses due to increased friction/ contact surface? 4. Will my New axle angle have an effect on my CV joint or drive shaft or rear axle? ( which ever case it is) 5. If a lift is bad for a car, why do people do it. And why hasn't the Govt done any thing to stop them, after all they are a risk to other road users I just wana Know the different opinion from the Pros here |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by bebrief(m): 11:24pm On Feb 16, 2012 |
@Siena, your suggestions are very fantastic. And I know one can as well buy a Land Rover. We're talking about giving advise to someone operating on a slim budget. However, I disagree with you that the spring will be overloaded. You will agree with me tht. Spring naturally loses its tensile strength over time, nd what you're simply doing by adjusting the spring is regaining lost tensile strength as well as achieving your desired purpose of raising the car base. |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by Ikenna351(m): 10:10am On Feb 17, 2012 |
bebrief: I dont see the reason why someone would go this mile, instead of simply replacing the failed dampers & bushings. Unless you are telling us that Kia springs are inferior like the Toyotas, when compared with Euro cars. I cant recall ever hearing that a Peugeot spring needed to be changed. My cousins Toyota Carina II front suspensions springs broke several times sometime in the past. I kept wondering then what did they manufacture those springs with. A plastic? Lol! An Uncle of mine at Awka then was having this raising of a car issue with his Toyota Corolla. In his case, any small climb of bump, the tyres would hit the fenders. It got so bad that he decided to replace the springs with longer ones. In bringing out the dambers/struts, he found out that all the struts were completely dead. In fact, it was only the springs that was preventing & holding the car body from fallen onto the tyres. After he replaced the struts, the issues were gone. The car body that was almost rolling the ground rose up/stood high far from the ground. No need again for the springs replacement. In my previous post, i was emphasizing on dampers conditions. Most times, that is what it would take to sort out this particular problem. But am still baffled why some people would just make such a huge purchase, like a vehicle, without knowing what they want out of the vehicle & the need the vehicle is for. Why wont someone considers the terrain where he lives before making that choice of which brand, product or model? If it most be Toyota, why not go for their products with higher ground clearances, if the road in your state is that bad? Even if it must be Camry, there are specifications. For example, if am to purchase a 505 of high ground clearance, i either chosse a PAN production or a foreign assembled 505 Dangel. Siena knows the Dangel am talking about. Check online, there could be differences in ground clearance of Camry CE, XL & XLE, considering the factory trye sizes. Though am not sure of Camry, but such specs. are obtained in some brands. The truth is that we dont do our homework well before making such purchase. Also this thing with Nigerians "BANDWAGON PROPAGANDA", is not helping matters. Everyone drives this brand or product, so let me join the chorus, without considering if that suites your need. If you know you have made that mistake, correct it by selling & replacing the vehicle with an SUV. Period. Ikenna. 1 Like |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by Ikenna351(m): 10:21am On Feb 17, 2012 |
bebrief: Guy, I stay in Abuja too. Unfortunately, Apo mechanic village is the worst nightmare i would recommend to anyone i call a friend. Even though, i do visit them, but with "OPEN EYE" & seriously, the work must be done under my strict supervision & instructions. So, i beg to differ. Ikenna. |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by Ikenna351(m): 11:40am On Feb 17, 2012 |
bebrief: Siena said that your travelling with your car to East & back, in that state, is not an issue. But to me, it is. Road/Car accident does not happen when all things are equal. It happens when all are not equal, unexpected; eventuality. That you travel with the car to East & back last Xmas doesnt make the car safe on our "safe & smooth" highway. I also drove to East too that Xmas & saw the patch-patch the FERMA did on Lokoja-Abuja expressway. Very safe road indeed! We put our vehicles in good shapes before embarking on journeys, not because the car wont make it to the final destination; not because the engine would fail & strand you if you dont replace the engine oil, but because we want to prevent it from failing & expect the car to behave predictably as it should if there is an eventuality. Have you ever drove on the Lokoja-Abuja Expressway at night? If you have done so, you would understand why the suspensions, stability & balance of your car on highway should be a major concern to you. No one wants to drive that road at night, but when things are not equal, you would find yourself at night , driving on that deathtrap. Why? The day i drove on that road at night, i never planned for it. I drove my 605 V6 from Lagos that day, sometime in November last year, hoping to arrive Abuja by 5pm. Before i got to Ibadan, the car started overheating & it was on Sunday. I would drive for 30 mins, park for 30 mins to wait for it to cool & drove off again. I continued this till i got to Akure by 4:30pm. It was there that i decided to trace the cause of the overheating and i then found out that the radiator cap seal had failed, which was causing the overheating. I temporally corrected it & drove off finally , heading towards Abuja. I arrived Lokoja by 8:30pm. By the time i entered Lokaja-Abuja hiway, HELL WAS LET LOOSE! All manners of Long Trucks were already on that road, going to Lokoja. All of them had about 20 - 30 powerfull bright headlights all over. I was been blind by those headlights & I still have 3 hrs journey to cover before i get to Garki, Abuja that night. Before i got to Abaji, one truck blinded me , such that as soon as i passed the truck, one gully, not even a pothole, was just before me. There was nothing i could be but to jump it at the speed i was doing. That incident condemned the wheel right there. And later the hub. If not for the good state of the suspension, i wont be here writting this. So , accident doesnt happen all things been equal. The day you wiould experience similar experience of mine with the state of that your modified suspension, well, i leave that to you to answer. Have you ever been pushed out of the road by another vehicle on highway on hi speed? The day it happened to me, all things were not equal. In September last year, 2011, i was driving my 505 V6 on Onitsha - Enugu expressway. Before i got to 9th mile, a Toyota 18 Seeter Bus, from nowhere, jump into my lane, two poles before me, heading towards me (head on collusion). Everything happened within seconds. If i remain on that lane, we would collide, face to face. Even if i reduce or brake my car, abruptly on top speed, we would still collide. What option was left? I quickly steered out of the road on that top speed. What happened next is a story for another day. But why i am telling this story is to portray how a good suspension, stable, well balanced & wide sized tyre would save your life someday. While the tyres were making screeching noise & people around where screeming, i myself thought that was my end. My love for that my car, 505 V6, started that day. While the car was off the tared road & was un bumpy side of the express on top speed (about 140 km/h), this car remained dociled, stabled, predictable,etc. To cut the story short, when i finally stopped the car,I came out unscratched, went round the car & the car was unscratched too! To tell you how serious it was, i lost a tyre, a brand new i fixed few days before the incident.It was when the car was jumping up & down down on the bumpy side road on that top speed that the trye busted. Yet the car didnt swerve or sommersolt, which i thought would happen. Since then, i realised that what matters is how safe a car is, not how beautiful it is on highway. So, my brother, the stories above are not ferry tales. It happened to me, not what i heard from anyone, but what i experienced. Accident! Is always about prevention that matters. make your car as safe as you can, unless you don't want any business with the highways. Ikenna. 7 Likes 3 Shares |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by Tokotaya: 11:48am On Feb 17, 2012 |
Very illuminating thread. @Sienna, I love your posts. Proud to have a Nigerian so good at what he does. I experience the strong bounce when I go over bumps or pot hole with my Camry. I had it raised years ago, due to the nature of our road- pot hole, flooding etc. Without raising it, the car would probably die in floods every day during the rainy season because it wouldnt be able to navigate moderately flooded roads, not to talk of the massive floods in most parts of Lagos. However, with this education on this thread, I have to be more careful on highways. 1 Like |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by forkadict(m): 12:32pm On Feb 17, 2012 |
@ Siena and Ikenna. I love you guys. No homo. @ OP. take good counsel and desist from your intent. It's just not a safe practice. Forget those that are advising you that if you do this and if you do that all would be well. Maguy, all would not be well. I understand perfectly your concerns about the state of our roads and flooding etc etc but you have choices. You can sell off your car, add a little extra cash and buy a cheap SUVs or you can set aside a pecentage of your salary on a monthly basis and dedicate exclusively to maintenance of your car which is what i do. That way, hardly can i be taken aback by any maintenance costs my car may incur at any point in time. A word is enough for the wise. What you are about to do is an unsafe act. If you are safety concious, youll agree with me that accidents dont just happen. They are caused by unsafe acts and practices. Goodluck. |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by Nobody: 12:42pm On Feb 17, 2012 |
i think i supported what sienna has said. |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by Nobody: 1:31pm On Feb 17, 2012 |
bebrief: Come on bro! We both know this "modification" has nothing to do with regaining tensile strength, more to do with artificially raising the car. If the springs were even broken, as long as the car didn't bottom out over bumps, most will ignore the springs, because "the car still drives okay". Tensile strength can't be restored to a torsion bar. Springs are cold-formed, tensile strength is determined during the process. Once the tensile strength is lost, the car may sag slightly, and the ride may become softer and less predictable. I believe you're confusing Tensile Strength with Compressive Strength. Both are very different. By raising the spring platform, you're compressing the spring more. You haven't increased tensile strength, that will always remain the same. Tensile strength is present in every piece of metal - nuts, bolts, rods etc. If you bend a bar, the tensile strength doesn't alter. Tensile strength is the ability of a given piece of steel to resist deformation, nothing more. Compressing a spring beyond its design limits does not alter the tensile strength, or restore lost strength. It just means the springs are more likely to fracture. You can also get caught out by "coil-bind". This is whereby the coils are too close, and going over a bump means the coils will contact each other. The result? The car crashes over bumps, and the limited travel in the damper rams means they become defective. They won't absorb shock. There's more to suspension than jacking the car off the ground to clear bumps. The fact a car that's been raised artifically, and can drive from Lagos to Sokoto does not mean it's right. If the unexpected happens, and a split-second decision to take evasive action is made, the results may well be less than favourable. 3 Likes |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by akin33(m): 4:41pm On Feb 17, 2012 |
It is a good idea 2 raise ur car base a little. If ur car base touches ground in a bad roads or galoping, jst raise it a bit in order 2 avoid damaging. Especially d tank and boot. |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by Nobody: 4:53pm On Feb 17, 2012 |
akin33: How much is a little? An inch or two? Either of these options are too long for the stock dampers to operate. Most cars have alternative springs - Sport (lower and stiffer) Standard (higher and softer) Heavy Duty (Higher and stiffer). Beyond the tallest springs fitted to a particular model, there's no other safe way to raise a car. It would make more sense to fit a slightly taller tyre, and make sure your exhaust and fuel tank are tucked as high up as possible in the chassis. I'd prefer damage to the vehicle's under carriage, than having my car deviate from it's set course, if I hit an unexpected bump with a "raised" suspension, or had to take sudden evasive action with the same modified suspension. There are cheap options - older Peugeot 504 / 505. These have higher than average ground clearance as standard, and are dirt cheap. Heck, some folk will even give them away. 1 Like |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by Nobody: 6:10pm On Feb 17, 2012 |
We modify suspension all the time here but you buy components from demonstrated manufacturers/fabricators who go the extra mile and design the geometry properly. There are stuff like bump steer, camber, toe that may be severely affected if not done properly but it is possible and common over here. Reading this escapades of late night potholes at night maybe someone should start a cottage business of building Baja trucks in Nigeria - lol Seriously though, for me based on what I saw when I was home in July a Toyota Rav4 and it's types seems to be a perfect all round vehicel for average Nigeria. Good ground clearance, thirst conscious engine, good visibility, etc Good luck to OP, it's your car and you can do what ever you need but move cautiously, what you're thinking is possible but must not be hacked together. |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by Ikenna351(m): 9:21am On Feb 18, 2012 |
@Somorin. No one is saying it cant be possible to properly modify a vehicle's factory suspension. But i disgree that it can be done in Nigeria properly for now. In western world, there a lot good workshops, dedicted only in modifications, with well trained auto-mechanics. They carryout a lot of test, scientifically or electronically, to be sure it would be safe for the vehicle before embarking on the modifications. But here in Nigeria, all what those clowns do is to remove the suspension springs & put Caterpiller springs, telling that all is well. I was washing the MAKING of PEUGEOT 605 video the other & i saw the suspension was tested before it was certified safe for the car. These guys, the car manufacturers, spend huge amount of money truely in testing the suspensions of the first rollout productions of new products. They use various electronic gadgets to test & re-adjust suspensions untill the desired results are achieved. They also carry out crash test, to see how the suspensions would hold up. So guys, you cant just alter what has been tested with huge sum of money & expect it to be the same. People die almost on daily basis on our hiways. No one bothers to ask why , how or what caused them because they become insignificant when lives have been lost & the survivors are in critical conditions in Hospitals. Yes, we would blame the govt for the bad roads. But would fold your hands & do nothing to make it safe for you, as much as you can on those roads, because govt has failed us? Yes, on smooth straight road, nothing might happen when on high speed if all things are equal, with that bad modified suspension. But since you know the state of our highways, why would one not protect himself, by making tyhe car safe first? Yes, God protects, but you have to do your bit first, before God comes in, otherwise, you are putting Him to test. You cant see a moving Caterpiller & jump before it, expecting God to send his Angels to pull you away & stop the Caterpiller from climbing you. I tell you, no one will differentiate your head from your legs, after the Caterpiller must have dealt with you! If you must raise your car in Nigeria by the Nigerians, stay away from the Nigerian highways with that car. You use it in the city, but with low speed. Because, even in the cities, speeding with it wont be safe for you, especially for those of us that resides Abuja (smooth sweet expressways all round the city). Imagine what would happen if one of the tyres burst while you are speed with that kind of bad modified suspension. Stop applying logic with your safety/live. Nigeria has not gotten there yet in that kind of proper modifications. Even to convert a manual to auto transmission or I4 to V6 engine in a car properlly is still a major problem for them & we are here talking about something that determines the stabilty of a car on hispeed! Its your car. Yes. You have the right to do or modify whatever you want in it. But remember that you are placing your live in that car when you are driving it. It can get you to the destination you planned reaching or it can also get you to the destination you didnt plan for: Hospital or Mortuary. Its your call. Ikenna. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by Nobody: 2:40pm On Feb 18, 2012 |
Ikenna351: Good, I know it's possible because I do it all the time. And the full quote was this[b] "what you're thinking is possible but must not be hacked together". [/b] My task on this thread is not to disuade the OP, he's a grown Man and able to make his own decisions, but to enlighten him so that if he was to do it, it's his car, then to at least do it properly. The consideration here is not just for him but for fellow motorists on the road. An improperly designed modification resulting in an overloaded wheel bearing/tie rod can let go and send a tire/wheel combo off down the street into possibly other motorists or pedestrians. It happens. Good well designed suspension modification kits are over here, perhaps the OP might even decide to go into importing those kits and starting a cottage business. Don't let underestimate our people, I don't live in Nigeria full time and hardly do anything automotive while on the ground but I roam the web and have seen impressive shops doing impressive tasks in Lagos. I don't recognize Abuja so I don't even do any research that involves over there. JCWhitney.Com Suspension lift kit $200, no welding or other modification required, a direct bolt on for a 2005 Tacoma |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by datola: 7:49am On Apr 28, 2013 |
One car that I like is Toyota Avalon from 2005 upwards, but my problem is that their tires usually touch the body of the car. That's the only thing I hate about the car as it makes the car look so ugly looking at it from the tires. @all, please how can I overcome this? |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by Nobody: 10:54am On Apr 28, 2013 |
datola: One car that I like is Toyota Avalon from 2005 upwards, but my problem is that their tires usually touch the body of the car. That's the only thing I hate about the car as it makes the car look so ugly looking at it from the tires. Replace the springs with new ones, as the old ones may have become soft, and are sagging. Also fit brand new gas dampers, as these resist pitch and dive much better. Are you sure the tyres fitted are the correct size? They may well be too big. |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by Nobody: 2:19pm On Apr 28, 2013 |
Siena: Raising a vehicle is not only bad practice, it's also dangerous. You're raising the centre of gravity, which makes the car unstable at speed, more vulnerable if driven in cross winds or bad roads with negative camber. A sudden change of direction (like swerving to avoid an obstacle) could cause the car to over turn.on point mr. Siena in Nigeria most people poerpetuate this evil and dangerous acts on their toyota camry 1998- 2002 models and even 2008-2010 models aren't spared. They alter the ride heights due to potholes and speed bumps which are constructed on any road both good or bad roads. This is done to protect the bottom of these cars and some other parts but most folks do this without installing appropriate kits on these cars. |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by datola: 9:07pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
Siena: Thanks oga Siena for the advice. I also notice that all brand new I've seen are like that. Please see the image of a brand new below even with no persanger
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Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by ugoadudu: 2:52pm On Sep 09, 2014 |
Pls Siena, may I have your phone no? I'll like to discuss something with you in private. My own no is +2348063081250. Thank you. My name is Ugo. |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by ZeusAyo: 8:45pm On Sep 09, 2014 |
domack99: Hello House, just want to find out if their could be negative effect by raising the base of a car away from the ground. And what exactly do you adjust when raising the base and is their any alternative means or is their any car that cannot be raise or not advise to raise.its Λ very DA ה GEROUS practice; raising Λ car'S base alters the car centre of gravity wich causes disbalance(cross wind) whose effects come into play when you start exceeding 60mph. That's why you see suvs flipping over when they reach certain speeds |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by findbufo: 7:33am On Dec 07, 2014 |
Pls I need an advice on what to do about my car, its a kia optima 2007, each time I enter potholes, or a road that is not smooth on a speed, the car, the back two legs swerves as if it dances, have change d bad bushings, d shocks, but is still happening. Pls, could the back springs be the cause? ASAP reply pls. |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by jayuuk: 10:41pm On Dec 07, 2014 |
Pls sir siena,i hv a similar problem on my 05 le camry,bought tokunbo,17 inch 225/65,the car sways like fish tail on an uneven road surface on speed above 40/km hr,pls i hv checked the struts,spring,camber bushings,anti sway bar,all was confirmed ok.pls what do i do next sir. |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by sssaaammm: 3:15pm On Nov 03, 2015 |
pls sir siena i idrive a 2010 honda crosstour and i had it raise because of bad roads in my area. i also had a bigger rim added on it with tyre. 275/40/20rim, everytime i drive on any rough road it feels like the car is about to cut into two. lol. i have changed shocker absorbers, bushin and leakage but still the same. please advice. thank you |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by Nobody: 12:40pm On Nov 05, 2015 |
Changing the suspension of a vehicle is not something to be done willy nilly. Note: pic is a toy.
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Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by Nobody: 11:23am On Jun 13, 2017 |
What about using some kind of special rubber to adjust the height of my Toyota camry tiny lite ? Instead of welding |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by Inception(m): 3:01pm On Jun 13, 2017 |
SiENA! |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by cyborg123(m): 12:55pm On Jun 14, 2017 |
Inception:Siena's nairaland |
Re: Effect Of Raising The Base Of A Car by bizzibodi(m): 11:16am On Jul 23, 2017 |
Loads of opinions on this thread, which is a very good one by the way.pls what inches is safe & good to raise a toyota camry 2000? |
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