Metaphors in the Bible

Jesus said, “I am the bread of life” (John 6:35). This confused some people. “The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?


Isaiah 64:8: “But now, O Lord, you are our Father; we are the clay, and you are our potter; we are all the work of your hand.” We are not literally clay, but God molds us in certain ways.

Ezekiel 34:15–16: “I myself will be the shepherd of my sheep, and I myself will make them lie down, declares the Lord God. I will seek the lost, and I will bring back the strayed, and I will bind up the injured, and I will strengthen the weak, and the fat and the strong I will destroy. I will feed them in justice.

(How many humans take kindly to being likened to sheep)

Stop being obnoxiously critical

We have to also teach you English?

A cloud of mountains
This is a Metaphor which suggests that the the seen were humongous.

rolams:


Yes. May Allah accept all our acts of ibadah.

TenQ:




The Question is has been very simple: Who Deleted the verse of Breastfeeding of Adult males in the Qur'an?

None of you have been able to say who did it. But at least, we have shown you that verses were Deleted. This advice can make you richer than Adeboye and Oyedepo combined.


Again below are three of your own Hadiths showing that your Quran has been doctored by some zealous Muslims. Perhaps this is why no one can connect any of the modern day Qur'an to either copies from Abu Bakr or copies from Uthman.

All the Hadiths below show that Allah revealed the verse of Breastfeeding Adult men in the Qur'an AND the verses somehow was DELETED from your QURAN


Sunan an-Nasa'i 3307: Book 26, Hadith 112
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
"One of the things that Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, revealed" -(one of the narrators) Al-Harith said (in his narration): "One of the things that were revealed in the Qur'an"- "was that ten known breast-feedings make marriage prohibited, then that was abrogated and changed to five known breast-feedings. Then the Messenger of Allah passed away when this was something that was still being recited in the Qur'an."

Sunan Ibn Majah 1942: Book 9, Hadith 98
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
“Once of the things that Allah revealed in the the Qur'an and then abrogated was that nothing makes marriage prohibited except ten breastfeedings or five well-known (breastfeedings).”



Sunan Ibn Majah 1944: Book 9, Hadith 100
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
“The Verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.”



Are you now convinced or the hadiths are all FABRICATIONS!?






Have a nice Day!

You are either not sincerel or not serious about your discovered or invented Qurans and deleted verses. Get sponsors, print, publish them plenty and start selling them.

This is meant for the OP

Explore2xmore:
We have to also teach you English?

A cloud of mountains
This is a Metaphor which suggests that the the seen were humongous.

Explore2xmore:
The first pillar of Islam is belief.
Belief in Allah, his prophets, their books, heaven, hell, destiny and predestination.

The books mentioned here are the Torah, Zabur, Injil and Quran. No mention of hadith.

Are the Hadiths statements of Falsehood?

Are the Scholars of Islam who compiled them Ignorant?

Without these same hadiths would you not be practicing Mutah as prescribed in the Qur'an?

Without the hadiths you have no religion my dear sir.

Did the Qur'an teach you how to pray?
..

These and many more show that it is futile to disclaim the Hadiths or the Tafsirs and the Sunnah.

To these end, we have to trust the Islamic scholars like Imam Bukhari, Imam Muslim, Al-Qutubi, Al-Tabari, Al-Jalalayn etc. We have no option than to trust that hadiths that are graded are respected as Sahih, Daif, Hassan etc.

Unfortunately, the evidence against the standard narrative is strong: that some verses were deleted from the Qur'an.


I mean no harm, but these is where the evidence leads.

I may answer you when you get back to this forum on what you learn about hadith and seerah.

Authentication and reasons for variation.

You trouble makers hang on hadith because unlike the bible which has numerous authors the Quran just has one who only rendered it but is not the originator. This leaves no room for manipulations of he said, she said which you easily get in your reliance on hadith.

Rabble rouser

Explore2xmore:
Ibn Ishaq was the son of Yasar’s third son Ishaq, who was a transmitter of akhbar (news) and also used to collect and recount tales of the past.

Ibn Ishaq started collection of tales like his transmitter father and came into collection of Hadith.

However, Ibn Ishaq was ordered to get out of Medina for relating a false Hadith from a woman, Faṭima bint al-Mundhir, wife of Hisham ibn Urwa.

Hence, the false Hadith transmitter Ibn Ishaq left Medina and settled in Baghdad, where he found employment with Abbasids, who were establishing their new Capital in Baghdad having overthrown the Umayyad Caliphate. (“Ibn Isḥaḳ - Encyclopedia of Islam” and “The Making of the Last Prophet”- University of South Carolina).

Under Abbasid’s hands Ibn Ishaq wrote the earliest biography of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) namely “Sirat ar Rasul Allah” in which he brought doubts in the verses of the Quran, pressed lies on Allah, and accused Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) of fabricating Allah’s words.

The false Hadith transmitter Ibn Ishaq transmitted “Qissa Gharaniq” (the story of intermediary cranes) with reference to the verses of Surah Al Najam Chapter 53 of the Quran, in which he accused Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) of not distinguishing the verses of Allah and the verses of Satan and that the Prophet (pbuh) purposely fabricated Allah’s words to compromise with Arab pagans on the matter of intercession (Persian Shafaat “شفاعت”) through their deities Lat, Manat and Uzzah.

Will Ibn Ishaq be the only false hadith transmitter?

I refer you to the Quran then you decide to quote from places that are not secure from manipulation.

I can understand that there are many hadiths that are fabrications. I also know that there are some people who's hadiths are not accepted at all because they are known liars. An example is Hafs from whom you have the Recitation of your Qur'an.

On the satanic verses, it is not only Ibn Ishaq that wrote about it. Others who wrote Tafsirs from apart from Ibn Ishaq are Ibn Sa'd, Al-Tabari and Ibn Taymiyyah. Sira Ibn Hisham, Al-Waqidi and
This is well known in Islamic history until some Muslims just thought that Mohammed wouldn't receive such evil verses.

Unfortunately, it isn't up to you or me to decide. For all we know, ibn Ishaq died as a Muslim and his books are still held as a solid historical source of Islam. He doesn’t even have any motive to write such about his esteemed prophet.

You will admit with me that Ibn Ishaq book is about the oldest biographical book of Mohammed. Islam as a religion had not been cleaned up by that time, hence some of his stories seemed strange to modern Muslims.

Finally,
My own personal observation:
A lot of the very early islamic books on history or biography of the prophet are suppressed. How?
1. They are not translated into English
2. The Arabic copies are difficult to get if you are not a scholar or in a university that has a good iskamic library
3. You wouldn't even find them on the Internet.
Example :
Search for the book Tareekh Al- Kabeer in Arabic or English till tomorrow, you won't find it. Yet, Islamic scholars are quoting from it as if they are hiding something from it.

If you find the ebook, I am interested.

TenQ:

Who deleted the verse of breastfeeding of adult men from the Quran of Allah?

No one has been able to answer the question.

I was not laughing at you but at the way this people can not defend the fairy tales they chose to believe in.
As for whether that verse is talking about breast feeding, you know you are being mischievous. That verse is simply telling us that our adopted children are not our biological son. Just like your wife will never be your mother just because you say so. Read from verse 4 to get the context.


My question to you is where in the Quran does it says a woman can let a fully grown male adult suck her breast, so that he can be considered her foster son?
If the hadith claim goat or sheep ate the verse, the Hadith also claimed that these companions are memorizers of the Quran, did the sheep ate up the one in their memory too? Besides it was claimed that as soon as the prophet received revelation he will utter it and his scribes(not one ooo) will write it down. So if that is the case each verse of the Quran has more than one copies. So if the goat or whatever ate one, another copy of same verse should be available right? So we should still find it in the Quran right? Unless you are suggesting after the goat ate that copy and discovered how sweet it is and decided to visit the remaining copies of that breast feeding verse? Imagine a goat looking for Mushaf of the Quran at that time selecting which one is talking about breast feeding or stoning to death and adulterers or not, ignoring those that are not talking about breast feeding etal. and eating up the one that do(You can see, I read Hadith to amuse myself).
So, you see the more you looked at the stories as presented in the Hadith, you will know it has nothing to do with Muhammad neither his followers at that time.

Explore2xmore:
If these verses were recited kindly provide a copy of the Quran where they exist

If you provide the copy of the Qur'an of Abu Bakr and/or that of Uthman it would be found in it.
However, it has been deleted from the later Qur'an.

Is your modern Arabic Qur'an not from the RECITATION of Hafs?
Bring out the authentic Qur'an and if the tame sheep gas not eaten everything, you'd see what you want. LOL!

Aisha, the mother of the faithful can attest to this fact.

Explore2xmore:
Ibn Ishaq started collection of tales like his transmitter father and came into collection of Hadith.

However, Ibn Ishaq was ordered to get out of Medina for relating a false Hadith from a woman, Faṭima bint al-Mundhir, wife of Hisham ibn Urwa.

Following the revelation of verses 53:19 and 53:20 of Surah Al Najam, Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza (53:19) And Manat, the third, the other?” (53:20), Ibn Ishaq transmitted the false tale that after these verses 53:19 and 53:20 of Surah Al Najam the next two verses, “These are the exalted intermediaries cranes” and “Whose intercession is to be hoped for” were originally revealed by Satan, and as soon as these verses were revealed the whole council of Arab pagans and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) prostrated to the deities al-Laat , Manat and Uzzah and their conflicts on religion were peacefully dissolved but the Angel of revelation Gabriel’s timely Interventions made the Prophet of Islam aware that these verses were not from Allah as Satan had revealed them. Then Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) instantly changed his point of view.

In other words Ibn Ishaq gave an impression that Satan is more powerful than Allah (Nauzubillah), who made and revealed his verses more efficiently before Allah Who was still managing to reveal His verses through His Angel Gabriel and left behind the Satan.

What of if he was speaking the truth as it happened?

None of you modern Muslims were there.

Sira Ibn Hisham
..
Then God sent down ‘By the star when it sets your comrade errs not and is not deceived, he speaks not from his own desire,’ and when he reached His words Have you thought of al-Lat and al-'Uzza and Manat the third, the other, Satan, when he was meditating upon it, and desiring to bring it (sc. reconciliation) to his people, put upon his tongue ‘these are the exalted Gharaniq whose intercession is approved.' When Quraysh heard that, they were delighted and greatly pleased at the way in which he spoke of their gods and they listened to him; while the believers were holding that what their prophet brought them from their Lord was true, not suspecting a mistake or a vain desire or a slip, and when he reached the prostration and the end of the Sura in which he prostrated himself the Muslims prostrated themselves when their prophet prostrated confirming what he brought and obeying his command, and the polytheists of Quraysh and others who were in the mosque prostrated when they heard the mention of their gods, so that everyone in the mosque believer and unbeliever prostrated, except al-Walid b. al-Mughira who was an old man who could not do so, so he took a handful of dirt from the valley and bent over it. Then the people dispersed and Quraysh went out, delighted at what had been said about their gods, saying, ‘Muhammad has spoken of our gods in splendid fashion. He alleged in what he read that they are the exalted Ghariniq whose intercession is approved.’

The above is not Ibn Ishaq


Ibn Ishaq spoke the truth about the satanic verses

I marvel at your continuing display of idiocy.

According to Islamic tradition Ibn Ishaq's biography from the early Abbasid period was the most renowned and highly documented, but no copies exist. Half a century later, Ibn Hisham rewrote the alleged biography of Ibn Ishaq as narrated to him by Ziyād al-Baqqāʾi.

You see Ibn Hisham rewriting based on the tale told by the liar Ibn Ishaq?

Well I understand you attachment to false tales.

Read an understand what is hadith, seerah and Tafsir. Discern how to find truth.

Your friend has reinformed you of breastfeeding before the age of 2.5 years. Here the infant gets fed to his full. Can a grown man be fed to his full on breast milk of 1 woman in a session of breastfeeding?

Explore2xmore:
Metaphors in the Bible

Jesus said, “I am the bread of life” (John 6:35). This confused some people. “The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?


Isaiah 64:8: “But now, O Lord, you are our Father; we are the clay, and you are our potter; we are all the work of your hand.” We are not literally clay, but God molds us in certain ways.

Ezekiel 34:15–16: “I myself will be the shepherd of my sheep, and I myself will make them lie down, declares the Lord God. I will seek the lost, and I will bring back the strayed, and I will bind up the injured, and I will strengthen the weak, and the fat and the strong I will destroy. I will feed them in justice.

(How many humans take kindly to being likened to sheep)

Stop being obnoxiously critical

Just note how each verse is consistent: objects are either real or figurative.
Not in the case of your verse where everything are physical objects except the mountain.

By the way: If you say the mountain mean cloud,
Are hails cut from the clouds?

Explore2xmore:
I may answer you when you get back to this forum on what you learn about hadith and seerah.

Authentication and reasons for variation.

You trouble makers hang on hadith because unlike the bible which has numerous authors the Quran just has one who only rendered it but is not the originator. This leaves no room for manipulations of he said, she said which you easily get in your reliance on hadith.

Rabble rouser

Can you get me a soft copy of Tareekh Al- Kabeer in Arabic or English?

I will appreciate

Sorry for the late reply, I was placed on Ban by the Nairaland Bots!

satmaniac:


I was not laughing at you but at the way this people can not defend the fairy tales they chose to believe in.
As for whether that verse is talking about breast feeding, you know you are being mischievous. That verse is simply telling us that our adopted children are not our biological son. Just like your wife will never be your mother just because you say so. Read from verse 4 to get the context.

My argument is that the verse on Breastfeeding was DELETED from the Quran and not on the meaning of the remaining verses

I showed you several evidences that the verses used to be RECITED up to the time of the death of Mohammed.
Suddenly check throughout the whole Quran, we cannot find it again.

What Happened?
Deleted by people who took offence of it.

All the Hadiths below show that Allah revealed the verse of Breastfeeding Adult men in the Qur'an


Sunan an-Nasa'i 3307: Book 26, Hadith 112
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
"One of the things that Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, revealed" -(one of the narrators) Al-Harith said (in his narration): "One of the things that were revealed in the Qur'an"- "was that ten known breast-feedings make marriage prohibited, then that was abrogated and changed to five known breast-feedings. Then the Messenger of Allah passed away when this was something that was still being recited in the Qur'an."

Sunan Ibn Majah 1942: Book 9, Hadith 98
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
“Once of the things that Allah revealed in the the Qur'an and then abrogated was that nothing makes marriage prohibited except ten breastfeedings or five well-known (breastfeedings).”



Sunan Ibn Majah 1944: Book 9, Hadith 100
It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
“The Verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.”



Are you now convinced or the hadiths are all FABRICATIONS!?

satmaniac:

My question to you is where in the Quran does it says a woman can let a fully grown male adult suck her breast, so that he can be considered her foster son?
If the hadith claim goat or sheep ate the verse, the Hadith also claimed that these companions are memorizers of the Quran, did the sheep ate up the one in their memory too? Besides it was claimed that as soon as the prophet received revelation he will utter it and his scribes(not one ooo) will write it down. So if that is the case each verse of the Quran has more than one copies. So if the goat or whatever ate one, another copy of same verse should be available right? So we should still find it in the Quran right? Unless you are suggesting after the goat ate that copy and discovered how sweet it is and decided to visit the remaining copies of that breast feeding verse? Imagine a goat looking for Mushaf of the Quran at that time selecting which one is talking about breast feeding or stoning to death and adulterers or not, ignoring those that are not talking about breast feeding etal. and eating up the one that do(You can see, I read Hadith to amuse myself).
So, you see the more you looked at the stories as presented in the Hadith, you will know it has nothing to do with Muhammad neither his followers at that time.

The Hadiths above showed that
1. The verse of Breastfeeding was Revealed by Allah
2. The verse used to be recited up to the time of the death of Mohammed
3. There was no evidence to show that the verse was completely abrogated: what was abrogated was a reduction from ten times breastfeeding to five time breastfeeding

If you can provide the Quran of Abu Bakr or the Quran of Uthman, we may find it

The hadiths were recorded by Muslims for Muslims. Why would they tell damaging lies about their esteemed prophet.

By the way, all the three hadiths I presented are Sahih

Only Aisha spoke about her own written verse that was eaten by a ame sheep. The verse as you can see were memorised and recited.

Explore2xmore:
I marvel at your continuing display of idiocy.

According to Islamic tradition Ibn Ishaq's biography from the early Abbasid period was the most renowned and highly documented, but no copies exist. Half a century later, Ibn Hisham rewrote the alleged biography of Ibn Ishaq as narrated to him by Ziyād al-Baqqāʾi.

You see Ibn Hisham rewriting based on the tale told by the liar Ibn Ishaq?

Well I understand you attachment to false tales.

Read an understand what is hadith, seerah and Tafsir. Discern how to find truth.

Your friend has reinformed you of breastfeeding before the age of 2.5 years. Here the infant gets fed to his full. Can a grown man be fed to his full on breast milk of 1 woman in a session of breastfeeding?

Ibn Hisham and Ibn Ishaq are Muslims who died as Muslims: why would they write damaging lies about their prophet?
Do you have evidence that Ibn Ishaq lied with respect to the "satanic verses" other than an insinuation that it isnt possible?
Don't forget that Mohammed kissed a pagan stone (and no muslim can defend why he kissed the black stones that the idolaters worshipped): the satanic verses happened?


If your argument is that no copies of the work of ibn Ishaq exist, where then is the copy of the Quran of Abui bakr or the Quran of Uthman?
Can the Quran of Hafs using the same argument be invalidated?

Can I help you with what At Tabari also wrote in his book?


At Tabari
...
The Messenger of God was eager for the welfare of his people and wished to effect a reconciliation with them in whatever ways he could. It is said that he wanted to find a way to do this, and what happened was as follows.
Ibn Humayd—Salamah--Muhammad b. Ishaq—Yazid b. Ziyad al-Madani—Muhammad b. Kali al-Qurazi: When the Messenger of God saw how his tribe turned their backs on him and was grieved to see them shunning the message he had brought to them from God, he longed in his soul that something would come to him from God which would reconcile him with his tribe. With his love for his tribe and his eagerness for their welfare it would have delighted him if some of the difficulties which they made for him could have been smoothed out, and he debated with himself and fervently desired such an outcome. Then God revealed:
By the Star when it sets, your comrade does not err, nor is
he deceived; nor does he speak out of (his own) desire ...
and when he came to the words:

Have you thought upon al-Lat and al-'Uzza and Manat, the third, the other?
Satan cast on his tongue, because of his inner debates and what he desired to bring to his people, the words:

These are the high-flying cranes; verily their intercession is accepted with approval.
When Quraysh heard this, they rejoiced and were happy and delighted at the way in which he spoke of their gods, and they listened to him, while the Muslims, having complete trust in their Prophet in respect of the messages which he brought from God, did not suspect him of error, illusion, or mistake. When he came to the prostration, having completed the surah, he prostrated himself and the Muslims did likewise, following their Prophet, trusting in the message which he had brought and following his example. Those polytheists of the Quraysh and others who were in the Mosque likewise prostrated themselves because of the reference [1193] to their gods which they had heard, so that there was no one in the mosque, believer or unbeliever, who did not prostrate himself. The one exception was al-Walid b. al-Mughirah, who was a very old man and could not prostrate himself; but he took a handful of soil from the valley in his hand and bowed over that. Then they all dispersed from the mosque. The Quraysh left delighted by the mention of their gods which they had heard, saying, "Muhammad has mentioned our gods in the most favorable way possible, stating in his recitation that they are the high-flying cranes and that their intercession is received with approval."
The news of this prostration reached those of the Messenger of God's Companions who were in Abyssinia and people said, "The Quraysh have accepted Islam." Some rose up to return, while others remained behind. Then Gabriel came to the Messenger of God and said, "Muhammad, what have you done?....


It seem that you modern Muslims are more knowledgeable than the esteemed Imam At-Tabari who doesnt know his left from his right to include such in his book!

What do you say?

Explore2xmore:
Ibn Ishaq was the son of Yasar’s third son Ishaq, who was a transmitter of akhbar (news) and also used to collect and recount tales of the past.

Ibn Ishaq started collection of tales like his transmitter father and came into collection of Hadith.

However, Ibn Ishaq was ordered to get out of Medina for relating a false Hadith from a woman, Faṭima bint al-Mundhir, wife of Hisham ibn Urwa.

Hence, the false Hadith transmitter Ibn Ishaq left Medina and settled in Baghdad, where he found employment with Abbasids, who were establishing their new Capital in Baghdad having overthrown the Umayyad Caliphate. (“Ibn Isḥaḳ - Encyclopedia of Islam” and “The Making of the Last Prophet”- University of South Carolina).

Under Abbasid’s hands Ibn Ishaq wrote the earliest biography of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) namely “Sirat ar Rasul Allah” in which he brought doubts in the verses of the Quran, pressed lies on Allah, and accused Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) of fabricating Allah’s words.

The false Hadith transmitter Ibn Ishaq transmitted “Qissa Gharaniq” (the story of intermediary cranes) with reference to the verses of Surah Al Najam Chapter 53 of the Quran, in which he accused Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) of not distinguishing the verses of Allah and the verses of Satan and that the Prophet (pbuh) purposely fabricated Allah’s words to compromise with Arab pagans on the matter of intercession (Persian Shafaat “شفاعت”) through their deities Lat, Manat and Uzzah.

Will Ibn Ishaq be the only false hadith transmitter?

I refer you to the Quran then you decide to quote from places that are not secure from manipulation.

What of if I quote you a Tafsir by no other than Al-Jalalyn?

At least this is not hadith: and Imam Al-Jalalyn is not a novice in Islamic doctrines.


Al-Jalalayn Quran 22:52-53
And We did not send before you any messenger (rasūl) — this is a prophet who has been commanded to deliver a Message — or prophet (nabī) — one who has not been commanded to deliver anything — but that when he recited [the scripture] Satan cast into his recitation, what is not from the Qur’ān, but which those to whom he [the prophet] had been sent would find pleasing. The Prophet (s) had, during an assembly of the [men of] Quraysh, after reciting the [following verses from] sūrat al-Najm, Have you considered Lāt and ‘Uzzā? And Manāt, the third one? [53:19-20] added, as a result of Satan casting them onto his tongue without his [the Prophet’s] being aware of it, [the following words]: ‘those are the high-flying cranes (al-gharānīq al-‘ulā) and indeed their intercession is to be hoped for’, and so they [the men of Quraysh] were thereby delighted. Gabriel, however, later informed him [the Prophet] of this that Satan had cast onto his tongue and he was grieved by it; but was [subsequently] comforted with this following verse that he might be reassured [of God’s pleasure]: thereat God abrogates, nullifies, whatever Satan had cast, then God confirms His revelations. And God is Knower, of Satan’s casting of that which has been mentioned, Wise, in His enabling him [Satan] to do such things, for He does whatever He will.

That He may make what Satan has cast a trial, a test, for those in whose hearts is a sickness, dissension and hypocrisy, and those whose hearts are hardened, namely, the idolaters, [hardened] against acceptance of the truth. For truly the evildoers, the disbelievers, are [steeped] in extreme defiance, [in] a protracted feud with the Prophet (s) and the believers, for his tongue uttered mention of their gods in a way that pleased them, and yet this was later nullified.



Is Al-Jalalayn also a liar?
Do you modern Muslims know Islam better than him?

Explore2xmore:
In pre-Islamic Arabia, a variety of different marriage practices existed. The most common and recognized types of marriage at this time consisted of: marriage by agreement, marriage by capture, marriage by mahr, marriage by inheritance and Mutah or temporary marriage.

Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) narrated that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) forbade mut’ah marriage and the meat of domestic donkeys at the time of Khaybar. According to another report, he forbade mut’ah marriage at the time of Khaybar and he forbade the meat of tame donkeys. (Narrated by al-Bukhari, 3979; Muslim, 1407)

Al-Rabi’ ibn Sabrah al-Juhani narrated that his father told him that he was with the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) who said, “O people, I used to allow you to engage in mut’ah marriages, but now Allah has forbidden that until the Day of Resurrection, so whoever has any wives in a mut’ah marriage, he should let her go and do not take anything of the (money) you have given them.” (Narrated by Muslim, 1406)

The prophet met the pagan practice and in time on Allah's command abolished it.

You see other hadith here and understand that with varying hadith words of reporting in hadith confusion can easily arise.
Following the Quran is better and once you are in doubt about an issue it is better left so as not to fall into wrong doing.

1. The Prophet of Islam Mohammed allowed Mutah, then forbade it, then allowed it again then forbade it then Allowed it again. So it depends on which of the abolishment you speak about.

Sunan Ibn Majah 1963: Book 9, Hadith 119
It was narrated that Ibn 'Umar said:
"When 'Umar bin Khattab was appointed caliph, he addressed the people and said: 'The Messenger of Allah permitted temporary marriage for us three times, then he forbade it. By Allah, If I hear of any married person entering a temporary marriage, I will stone him to death, unless he can bring me four witnesses who will testify that the Messenger of Allah, allowed it after he forbade it'."

2. The practice of Mutah was on DURING the time of Mohammed and up to Abu Bakr then up to Umar who finally banned it

Sahih Muslim 1405c: Book 16, Hadith 18
Ibn Uraij reported:
'Ati' reported that jibir b. Abdullah came to perform 'Umra, and we came to his abode, and the people asked him about different things, and then they made a mention of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Yes, we had been benefiting ourselves by this temporary marriage during the lifetime of the Prophet and during the time of Abu Bakr and 'Umar.


Sahih Muslim 1405d: Book 16, Hadith 19
Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported:
We contracted temporary marriage giving a handful of (tales or flour as a dower during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger and durning the time of Abu Bakr until 'Umar forbade it in the case of 'Amr b. Huraith.

3. Mutah or Temporary Marriage was supported by Allah himself in Quran 5:87

Mishkat al-Masabih 3157: Book 13, Hadith 77
Ibn Mas'ud said :
When we were on an expedition along with God’s Messenger and had no women with us we asked whether we should not have ourselves castrated, but he forbade us to do that. Then he granted us licence to contract temporary marriages, and one would marry a woman giving a garment as dower up to a fixed date. Then ‘Abdallah recited, “You who believe, do not make unlawful the good things which God has made lawful for you” (Al-Qur’an 5:87).


Sahih al-Bukhari 5075: Book 67, Hadith 13
Narrated 'Abdullah:
We used to participate in the holy battles led by Allah's Messenger and we had nothing (no wives) with us. So we said, "Shall we get ourselves castrated?" He forbade us that and then allowed us to marry women with a temporary contract and recited to us: -- 'O you who believe ! Make not unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, but commit no transgression.' (5.87)

Tenq the hadith quoting addict, tell me then which hadith is to be believed?

He allowed it even when it was practiced before him? Do a history check on Mutah don't rely on hadith.

Why do I bother giving a reply? You defiantly will never reason and even when you do it is shear pretence.

Didn't you post?
by TenQ: 8:31pm On Jul 30
Dear Explore2xmore,
You have at least more knowledgeable than the host of many on NairaLand. I appreciate your time and deep knowledge.

You very well know that many things are difficult to defend in Islam because the Hadiths present too much loopholes in the Qur'an itself. Unfortunately, many times, the Qur'an is meaningless without the hadiths and the tafsir.

If you ask me, I would say that Islam has been upgraded many times between the 7th and 9th century. This is why there seem to be a big gap between Mohammed and the hadiths or Mohammed and the Modern Qur'an. This is my opinion(I am not an expert)

This statement above is contrary to the modern standard Islamic Narratives!
The Modern Standard narratives under scrutiny Break down irrevocably. This is why some Muslims call themselves Qur'an-Only Muslims. These Muslims think that complexities and dissonances would be resolved only to create a new problem.

As Muslims, you are Commanded by the almighty Allah not to ask questions about what has been revealed to you in the Qur'an. Unfortunately, this is a trap that forbids you to check if what you are reciting is truly from God or not.

Even prophet Muhammad fell into this trap when the verse on the intercession of the daughters of Allah was received from satan.
Mohammed didn't ask questions until Jubril had to tell him that he wasn't the one who gave him this satanic verses as Qur'an.

My objective is to stimulate Muslims to ask Questions. As they ask Questions, the Truth would be made apparent to them. As long as they refuse to ask questions, they would never know when they will be DECEIVED!

With ALL my Heart, I LOVE Muslims!
I wish them to know the Messiah who is their guarantee to Paradise.


Finally,
Mr Explore2xmore, just as I ask you Questions about Islam, I appreciate if you also ask me ANY Question about Christianity and I will try my best to answer them.

So, my friend, thank you once again for your time and I hope we remain cordial as we explain to each other the reason for our faith.

Thank you Sir.
TenQ


PS. No one needs your deceitful and mischievous love.

“In the year of the battle at Awtās the Messenger of Allāh (ﷺ) allowed mut’ah (temporary) marriage for three days – and then he forbade it thereafter.”

Muslim no. 1405.

997 – 1: Narrated ‛Alee (radiyallaahu ‘anhu) that:

“Allāh’s Messenger (ﷺ) forbade mut‛ah in the year of the battle of Khaibar.”

Bukhāree (4216, 5524) and Muslim (1407).

997 – 2: Narrated ‛Alee (radiyallaahu ‘anhu) that:

“Allāh’s Messenger (ﷺ) forbade temporary marriage with women, and the eating of the meat of the domestic donkey on the day of the battle of Khaibar.”

Reported by the seven except Abu Dawood: (Bukhāree, 4216; Muslim, 1407; Ibn Mājah, 1961; At-Tirmidhee, 1121; An-Nasā’ee, 6/126, 7/202; Ahmad, 592)

997 – 3: Narrated Rabee’ Ibn Sabrah from his father that Allāh’s Messenger (ﷺ) said:

“I used to permit for you temporary marriage with women. And Allāh has now forbidden that until the Day of Resurrection. So if anyone has any of these women, he should let her go. And you are not to take back anything of what you have given them [as dowry or gifts].”

Reported by Muslim, 1406; Abu Dawood, 2072; An-Nasā’ee, 6/126; Ibn Mājah, 1962; Ahmad, 15345; and Ibn Hibbān, 4147.

Shaikh Sālih al-Fawzān (hafidhahullāh) said:
All of these narrations are concerning the forbiddance of temporary marriage (mut’ah); it is from the invalid types of marriage.

Mut’ah: is that a man marries a woman for a fixed known term – so when this fixed term comes to an end, so does the marriage contract without the need for the pronouncement of talāq (divorce). This type of marriage did not obligate maintenance, nor ascription of any children to the husband, nor inheritance – it was from the types of marriage in the days of pre-Islamic ignorance.

Thereafter, the Prophet (ﷺ) forbade it in the year of the battle of Khaibar, in the seventh year after the Hijrah, before the conquest of Makkah and after the treaty of Hudaibiyah. So he forbade it during the battle of Khaibar, and he forbade eating the meat of the domestic donkey.

Then at the battle of Awtās, and that is the battle of Hunain in the eighth year after the Hijrah, he permitted Mut’ah for just three days. The Prophet (ﷺ) encountered the Hawāzin tribe in the valley of Hunain and fighting broke out between them. Allāh aided the Muslims. The remaining forces of the Hawāzin moved to a place called Awtās that is near Tā’if. So the Prophet (ﷺ) sent after them a fighting force under the leadership of Abu ‛Āmir Al-Ash‛aree – and Allāh aided him against them.

So he permitted for them: meaning allowed them an affair that was forbidden, whilst upholding the underlying reasons for its prohibition, and for an outweighing benefit at that time – so he allowed it in that time, in that year, then he forbade it forever.

So the affair of temporary marriage went through three stages:

Firstly, the Prophet forbade it, then he permitted it, then he forbade it forever. And the scholars have a consensus that the mut’ah marriage is invalid – and that its permissibility was only a short-lived allowance and then it was abrogated. And no one allowed it thereafter except the Rāfidah and no one pays attention to their opposition. So this is the mut’ah nikāh, and this is its ruling in Islam. So whoever makes it permissible is an unbeliever due to him making permissible that which is forbidden by consensus.

Adapted from volume 4, no. 996-997 (English, 848 to 851), Kitābun-Nikāh (The Book of Marriage) from Shaikh Sālih al-Fawzān’s explanation of Bulūgh Al-Marām min Adillatil-Ahkām of Al-Hāfidh Ahmad Ibn ‘Ali Ibn Hajr Al-Asqalāni (born 773H, died 852H), entitled Tas-heel al-Ilmām bi-fiqhil-Ahādeeth min Bulūghil-Marām and is printed in seven volumes.

Seems you are the unbeliever in an almighty God referred to here

Explore2xmore:
Tenq the hadith quoting addict, tell me then which hadith is to be believed?

He allowed it even when it was practiced before him? Do a history check on Mutah don't rely on hadith.

Why do I bother giving a reply? You defiantly will never reason and even when you do it is shear pretence.

Didn't you post?
by TenQ: 8:31pm On Jul 30
Dear Explore2xmore,
You have at least more knowledgeable than the host of many on NairaLand. I appreciate your time and deep knowledge.

You very well know that many things are difficult to defend in Islam because the Hadiths present too much loopholes in the Qur'an itself. Unfortunately, many times, the Qur'an is meaningless without the hadiths and the tafsir.

If you ask me, I would say that Islam has been upgraded many times between the 7th and 9th century. This is why there seem to be a big gap between Mohammed and the hadiths or Mohammed and the Modern Qur'an. This is my opinion(I am not an expert)

This statement above is contrary to the modern standard Islamic Narratives!
The Modern Standard narratives under scrutiny Break down irrevocably. This is why some Muslims call themselves Qur'an-Only Muslims. These Muslims think that complexities and dissonances would be resolved only to create a new problem.

As Muslims, you are Commanded by the almighty Allah not to ask questions about what has been revealed to you in the Qur'an. Unfortunately, this is a trap that forbids you to check if what you are reciting is truly from God or not.

Even prophet Muhammad fell into this trap when the verse on the intercession of the daughters of Allah was received from satan.
Mohammed didn't ask questions until Jubril had to tell him that he wasn't the one who gave him this satanic verses as Qur'an.

My objective is to stimulate Muslims to ask Questions. As they ask Questions, the Truth would be made apparent to them. As long as they refuse to ask questions, they would never know when they will be DECEIVED!

With ALL my Heart, I LOVE Muslims!
I wish them to know the Messiah who is their guarantee to Paradise.


Finally,
Mr Explore2xmore, just as I ask you Questions about Islam, I appreciate if you also ask me ANY Question about Christianity and I will try my best to answer them.

So, my friend, thank you once again for your time and I hope we remain cordial as we explain to each other the reason for our faith.

Thank you Sir.
TenQ


PS. No one needs your deceitful and mischievous love.

Sorry this got under your skin.

I clearly understand that :
You want me to agree with the standard Islamic narratives based on the fact that you personally cannot trust the hadiths against your preferred Narrative.

Unfortunately, you Muslims wrote the Hadiths, the Tafsir all the Sunnah and the books of biography and history of both your prophet and Islam. All I do is simply QUOTE them as many of them go contrary to your PREFERRED Narrative!

If you check carefully, it seems
1. You cannot reject your hadiths and Tafsir as Islam cannot be practiced based on the Quran alone
2. Your scholars tried to filter your hadiths by grading them as Sahih, Hassan, Daif or Fabricated. Unfortunately, it seems you don't trust even hadiths that have been graded as either Sahih or Hassan
3. Within the Islamic circles during preachings by your Clerics, even the hadiths that are fabricated are used Freely when it serves your purpose
4. Up till now, you cannot say why a Hadith should not be accepted other than it doesn't agree with your preferred standard Islamic Narratives.

For example :
You rejected the work of Ibn Ishaq because he collected a false hadith from a woman.
Using the same rule,
You should discard the Qur'an according to the Recitation of Hafs because Hafs and his Father are known liars.

In other words you are not consistent with your application of rules of judgement for Islam.

How does one know when a Narrative is a LIE?
We know by asking questions to which we have evidence of independent Truth!
This is what lawyers do in the court of law.

The evidence used are Islamic respected spiritual books beyond modern interference.


I stand with everything I said in the Quote below. Therein I explained by objective.

Dear Explore2xmore,
You have at least more knowledgeable than the host of many on NairaLand. I appreciate your time and deep knowledge.

You very well know that many things are difficult to defend in Islam because the Hadiths present too much loopholes in the Qur'an itself. Unfortunately, many times, the Qur'an is meaningless without the hadiths and the tafsir.

If you ask me, I would say that Islam has been upgraded many times between the 7th and 9th century. This is why there seem to be a big gap between Mohammed and the hadiths or Mohammed and the Modern Qur'an. This is my opinion(I am not an expert)

This statement above is contrary to the modern standard Islamic Narratives!
The Modern Standard narratives under scrutiny Break down irrevocably. This is why some Muslims call themselves Qur'an-Only Muslims. These Muslims think that complexities and dissonances would be resolved only to create a new problem.

As Muslims, you are Commanded by the almighty Allah not to ask questions about what has been revealed to you in the Qur'an. Unfortunately, this is a trap that forbids you to check if what you are reciting is truly from God or not.

Even prophet Muhammad fell into this trap when the verse on the intercession of the daughters of Allah was received from satan.
Mohammed didn't ask questions until Jubril had to tell him that he wasn't the one who gave him this satanic verses as Qur'an.

My objective is to stimulate Muslims to ask Questions. As they ask Questions, the Truth would be made apparent to them. As long as they refuse to ask questions, they would never know when they will be DECEIVED!

With ALL my Heart, I LOVE Muslims!
I wish them to know the Messiah who is their guarantee to Paradise.


Finally,
Mr Explore2xmore, just as I ask you Questions about Islam, I appreciate if you also ask me ANY Question about Christianity and I will try my best to answer them.

So, my friend, thank you once again for your time and I hope we remain cordial as we explain to each other the reason for our faith.

Thank you Sir.
TenQ

I would be guilty before God if with what I know of Islam I don't warn you Muslims. How would you feel to get to the place of the judgement of God and you realizer that I have kept the knowledge of salvation away from you.

Just as I have asked you questions, did I not give you the right to ask me ANY Questions about Christianity ?

The Truth of the matter is that I LOVE YOU MUSLIMS and I feel sincerely that you mean well but you have swallowed a deciet that will take you to hell. Love commands me to show you.

Islam usually break down under scrutiny with questions and evidence. It is NOT about what you want Islam to look like, it is about the truth of what Islam truly is.

I almost recited the shahada myself in my university days through the books of Ahmed Deedat. I got myself a copy of the Glorious Qur'an and began to read. It was in the process of reading and asking myself questions that my eyes were opened to the truth. This helped me to study indepth both Christianity and Islam.

Once again my brother!
Jesus said:
When you know the truth, the Truth will set you Free!

Ask Questions and you will find the Truth.

Sincerely from the bottom of my heart, I love you Muslims and I wish you stop memorising things without understanding it first. Otherwise, the number one question you would have asked yourself is :
Why was the Messiah sent to the world with all these unique and exceptional attributes?

Explore2xmore:
“In the year of the battle at Awtās the Messenger of Allāh (ﷺ) allowed mut’ah (temporary) marriage for three days – and then he forbade it thereafter.”

Muslim no. 1405.

997 – 1: Narrated ‛Alee (radiyallaahu ‘anhu) that:

“Allāh’s Messenger (ﷺ) forbade mut‛ah in the year of the battle of Khaibar.”

Bukhāree (4216, 5524) and Muslim (1407).

997 – 2: Narrated ‛Alee (radiyallaahu ‘anhu) that:

“Allāh’s Messenger (ﷺ) forbade temporary marriage with women, and the eating of the meat of the domestic donkey on the day of the battle of Khaibar.”

Reported by the seven except Abu Dawood: (Bukhāree, 4216; Muslim, 1407; Ibn Mājah, 1961; At-Tirmidhee, 1121; An-Nasā’ee, 6/126, 7/202; Ahmad, 592)

997 – 3: Narrated Rabee’ Ibn Sabrah from his father that Allāh’s Messenger (ﷺ) said:

“I used to permit for you temporary marriage with women. And Allāh has now forbidden that until the Day of Resurrection. So if anyone has any of these women, he should let her go. And you are not to take back anything of what you have given them [as dowry or gifts].”

Reported by Muslim, 1406; Abu Dawood, 2072; An-Nasā’ee, 6/126; Ibn Mājah, 1962; Ahmad, 15345; and Ibn Hibbān, 4147.

Shaikh Sālih al-Fawzān (hafidhahullāh) said:
All of these narrations are concerning the forbiddance of temporary marriage (mut’ah); it is from the invalid types of marriage.

Mut’ah: is that a man marries a woman for a fixed known term – so when this fixed term comes to an end, so does the marriage contract without the need for the pronouncement of talāq (divorce). This type of marriage did not obligate maintenance, nor ascription of any children to the husband, nor inheritance – it was from the types of marriage in the days of pre-Islamic ignorance.

Thereafter, the Prophet (ﷺ) forbade it in the year of the battle of Khaibar, in the seventh year after the Hijrah, before the conquest of Makkah and after the treaty of Hudaibiyah. So he forbade it during the battle of Khaibar, and he forbade eating the meat of the domestic donkey.

Then at the battle of Awtās, and that is the battle of Hunain in the eighth year after the Hijrah, he permitted Mut’ah for just three days. The Prophet (ﷺ) encountered the Hawāzin tribe in the valley of Hunain and fighting broke out between them. Allāh aided the Muslims. The remaining forces of the Hawāzin moved to a place called Awtās that is near Tā’if. So the Prophet (ﷺ) sent after them a fighting force under the leadership of Abu ‛Āmir Al-Ash‛aree – and Allāh aided him against them.

So he permitted for them: meaning allowed them an affair that was forbidden, whilst upholding the underlying reasons for its prohibition, and for an outweighing benefit at that time – so he allowed it in that time, in that year, then he forbade it forever.

So the affair of temporary marriage went through three stages:

Firstly, the Prophet forbade it, then he permitted it, then he forbade it forever. And the scholars have a consensus that the mut’ah marriage is invalid – and that its permissibility was only a short-lived allowance and then it was abrogated. And no one allowed it thereafter except the Rāfidah and no one pays attention to their opposition. So this is the mut’ah nikāh, and this is its ruling in Islam. So whoever makes it permissible is an unbeliever due to him making permissible that which is forbidden by consensus.

Adapted from volume 4, no. 996-997 (English, 848 to 851), Kitābun-Nikāh (The Book of Marriage) from Shaikh Sālih al-Fawzān’s explanation of Bulūgh Al-Marām min Adillatil-Ahkām of Al-Hāfidh Ahmad Ibn ‘Ali Ibn Hajr Al-Asqalāni (born 773H, died 852H), entitled Tas-heel al-Ilmām bi-fiqhil-Ahādeeth min Bulūghil-Marām and is printed in seven volumes.

You did not say anything much different than I said except that I also added that Mutah was done
1. During the life time of the prophet even though he allowed it, then banned it then allowed it then banned it.
2. Mutah was still done by Muslims after the death of Mohammed especially during the reign of Abu Bakr and Umar the first two rightly guided khalifa
3. Umar was the one who finally banned Mutah for Muslims (except for the Shia who still practice it today)
4. The final thing I said was that Allah himself gave permission for Mutah instead of castration before it was banbed Qur'an 5.87 was revealed on account of this by Allah

In which of these above have I said that which is untrue about Islam ?

Explore2xmore:

Seems you are the unbeliever in an almighty God referred to here

I don't practice Mutah and I've never done it, so how could I be the unbeliever here?


I still insist that you are more knowledgeable than your peers here on Nairaland. I only wish that you ask Question not just swallow everything hook, line sinker as they have fed you. How would you know if what you've swallowed is Taqqiya?

.

Have a good night rest my brother.

I dare say you are not but a troublesome type. It is my life and the almighty will not bother you about my misdeeds; yours should be more than enough for you.

The Hafs qiraat of Abū ʽAmr Ḥafṣ ibn Sulaymān ibn al-Mughīrah ibn Abi Dawud al-Asadī al-Kūfī
came through his teacher Aasim ibn Abi al-Najud. This reading was according to Ali ibn Abi Taalib.

Ath-Thahabi stated in his book Al-Kaashif that Hafs ibn Sulaymaan was accurate as far as the recitation of the Quran is concerned. Ibn ʻAdiyy underlined in his book Al-Kaamil that the recitation of Hafs was more accurate than that of Shuʻbah who read according to ibn Masood.

The fact that scholars of Hadeeth declared Hafs a weak reporter in the field of Hadeeth does not undermine his great status in the field of Quran recitation.

Hadith have been called by some as "the backbone" of Islamic civilization, and for many the authority of hadith is a source for religious and moral guidance known as Sunnah, which ranks second only to that of the Quran.
So you see the Quran is most important.

Never will the Jews or Christians be pleased with you until you follow their way.

I don't need you to be pleased with me.
حَسْبُنَا اللَّهُ وَنِعْمَ الْوَكِيلُ

Within and without Mutah classification there are so many temporal marriage relations in the world today. This has little to do with Islam.

TenQ:


You did not say anything much different than I said except that I also added that Mutah was done
1. During the life time of the prophet even though he allowed it, then banned it then allowed it then banned it.
2. Mutah was still done by Muslims after the death of Mohammed especially during the reign of Abu Bakr and Umar the first two rightly guided khalifa
3. Umar was the one who finally banned Mutah for Muslims (except for the Shia who still practice it today)
4. The final thing I said was that Allah himself gave permission for Mutah instead of castration before it was banbed Qur'an 5.87 was revealed on account of this by Allah

In which of these above have I said that which is untrue about Islam ?


I don't practice Mutah and I've never done it, so how could I be the unbeliever here?


I still insist that you are more knowledgeable than your peers here on Nairaland. I only wish that you ask Question not just swallow everything hook, line sinker as they have fed you. How would you know if what you've swallowed is Taqqiya?

.

Have a good night rest my brother.

With regard to Tafseer al-Jalaalayn (by Jalaal ad-Deen as-Suyooti and Jalaal ad-Deen al-Muhalli), it is a good tafseer and summary, but it is not free of some shortcomings, especially with regard to the attributes of Allah and matters of ‘aqeedah (belief), in which it follows the madhhab of the Ash‘aris.

The tale of Gharaniq was mentioned by many scholars of Tafsir (explanation of the meanings of the Qur’an) in their interpretation of Allah’s Saying (the meanings of which are translated as), Never did We send a Messenger or a Prophet before you but when he did recite the revelation or narrated or spoke, Shaitân (Satan) threw (some falsehood) in it. (Surah Al-Hajj, 22: 52), and in the Tafsir of Allah’s Saying, Have you then considered Al-Lât, and Al-‘Uzzâ (two idols of the pagan Arabs) And Manât (another idol of the pagan Arabs), the other third? It was narrated through many chains of narration with different wordings.However, all of them are Mursal (with no Companion of the Prophet in the chain of narration), and were never reported through authentic chains of narration, as mentioned by Al-Hafizh ibn Kathir (may Allah be merciful to him) in his Tafsir. After he mentioned this tale through all its chains of narration, he said, “However, all of them are Mursal and disconnected.”

Ibn Khuzaymah said that this tale was fabricated by the Zanadiqah (Heretics); it was also denied by Abu Bakr ibn Al-‘Araby, Al-Qadi ‘Iyad and others, who disapproved of both its Sanad (chain of narrators) and Matn (the text). As for the Sanad, it is due to the above-mentioned reasons. As for the Matn, it is due to what was stated by Ibn Al-‘Araby that when Allah (Exalted be He) sends the Angel to His Messenger, He instills in him (His Messenger) the knowledge that it is the Angel who sends down Wahy (Revelation) to him; Satan can never put on his lips words, which throw him into confusion, and so he recites them as Qur’an. As there is Ijma‘ (unanimous consensus) on the infallibility of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) and the impossibility of his committing Shirk (associating others with Allah in His Divinity or worship), he could not have said these words by mistake, or thinking that they were Qur’an. He could not have preferred pleasing his people over pleasing his Lord, which made him wish that Allah would not reveal anything to him that might displease them. Moreover, the evidence used to prove the authenticity of this tale, which is inferred from Allah’s saying, Verily, they were about to tempt you away from that which We have revealed (the Qur’ân) unto you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم), to fabricate something other than it against Us (Surah Al-Isra’, 17: 73) certainly does not prove its authenticity. Rather, it proves the innocence of the Prophet (peace be upon him) of the accusation of reciting these polytheistic words, as the Ayah indicates denial and negation, not affirmation.It is also evident that Satan merely threw some falsehood into his recitation, but he did put such polytheistic words on his tongue nor inspired these words inside him, which he actually recited, read, or uttered, whether inattentively, by mistake or on purpose, until Jibril (Gabriel) came and corrected him, and he (peace be upon him) grieved over what happened. It was not also proven that the Ayah was revealed to console the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) for what he was afflicted with according to this tale, to prop up such an interpretation with all the errors that it contains.

The Jumhur (dominant majority) of Ahl-ul-Sunnah (those adhering to the Sunnah) agreed with Ibn Al-‘Araby on what he said. They stated that the meaning of the Ayah is: Never did Allah send a Messenger or a Prophet before you (O Muhammad) but when he did recite the revelation or narrated or spoke, a devil from among mankind or jinn would throw during his recitation or speech some false words spoken by that devil and heard by the attendants. Or the devil would whisper evil thoughts to the Kafirs (disbelievers) and hypocrites who thought them to be part of the Wahy, while they are not so. Allah then abolishes whatever words, whisperings or deception which Satan throws in and completely eliminates them, to establish the truth by His Words, for the Perfection of His Knowledge and Profound Wisdom. This is the Way of Allah with His Messengers, Prophets and their enemies, to fulfill the purpose of trying and testing mankind, so that the wicked is distinguished from the good; so that the Kafirs and hypocrites who are to be destroyed through their following the falsehood that Satan casts may be destroyed after a clear evidence, and the people of unwavering faith, whose hearts rest secure in Iman (belief), who are guided to the Straight Path, may live after clear evidence.

Thus, it becomes clear through the previously mentioned that the tale of Gharaniq is false. Satan does not have the power to thrust some falsehood into the mouth of the Prophet (peace be upon him) which he then recites or utters. Satan might have thrown some false words while the Prophet (peace be upon him) was reciting; words which were uttered by Satan and heard by the attendants, or Satan might have whispered some evil inspirations in the soul of the disbelievers and hypocrites, which they thought them to be part of the Wahy, while they are not. Allah then abolishes such Satanic sayings, eliminates misconception and establishes His revelations.

It also becomes clear that the opinion of Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Abdul-Wahab (may Allah be merciful to him) is the same of the Jumhur (dominant majority) of scholars, which holds that Satan has thrown some falsehood or evil whispering during recitation, but certainly not on the tongue of the Prophet (peace be upon him), or in his soul, or in the souls of the true believers. It was only in the ears of Kafirs, or inside their souls, which they thought to be part of the Qur’an. The wisdom of Allah entails that He destroys falsehood and establishes His revelations, so that the truth triumphs out of His Mercy to the people. Allah is All-Knowledgeable, All-Wise. The scholars of Islam are unanimously agreed on the infallibility of Messengers in all and everything that they convey from Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) to mankind.

TenQ:

What of if I quote you a Tafsir by no other than Al-Jalalyn?

At least this is not hadith: and Imam Al-Jalalyn is not a novice in Islamic doctrines.


Al-Jalalayn Quran 22:52-53
And We did not send before you any messenger (rasūl) — this is a prophet who has been commanded to deliver a Message — or prophet (nabī) — one who has not been commanded to deliver anything — but that when he recited [the scripture] Satan cast into his recitation, what is not from the Qur’ān, but which those to whom he [the prophet] had been sent would find pleasing. The Prophet (s) had, during an assembly of the [men of] Quraysh, after reciting the [following verses from] sūrat al-Najm, Have you considered Lāt and ‘Uzzā? And Manāt, the third one? [53:19-20] added, as a result of Satan casting them onto his tongue without his [the Prophet’s] being aware of it, [the following words]: ‘those are the high-flying cranes (al-gharānīq al-‘ulā) and indeed their intercession is to be hoped for’, and so they [the men of Quraysh] were thereby delighted. Gabriel, however, later informed him [the Prophet] of this that Satan had cast onto his tongue and he was grieved by it; but was [subsequently] comforted with this following verse that he might be reassured [of God’s pleasure]: thereat God abrogates, nullifies, whatever Satan had cast, then God confirms His revelations. And God is Knower, of Satan’s casting of that which has been mentioned, Wise, in His enabling him [Satan] to do such things, for He does whatever He will.

That He may make what Satan has cast a trial, a test, for those in whose hearts is a sickness, dissension and hypocrisy, and those whose hearts are hardened, namely, the idolaters, [hardened] against acceptance of the truth. For truly the evildoers, the disbelievers, are [steeped] in extreme defiance, [in] a protracted feud with the Prophet (s) and the believers, for his tongue uttered mention of their gods in a way that pleased them, and yet this was later nullified.



Is Al-Jalalayn also a liar?
Do you modern Muslims know Islam better than him?

Explore2xmore:
I dare say you are not but a troublesome type. It is my life and the almighty will not bother you about my misdeeds; yours should be more than enough for you.

The Hafs qiraat of Abū ʽAmr Ḥafṣ ibn Sulaymān ibn al-Mughīrah ibn Abi Dawud al-Asadī al-Kūfī
came through his teacher Aasim ibn Abi al-Najud. This reading was according to Ali ibn Abi Taalib.

Ath-Thahabi stated in his book Al-Kaashif that Hafs ibn Sulaymaan was accurate as far as the recitation of the Quran is concerned. Ibn ʻAdiyy underlined in his book Al-Kaamil that the recitation of Hafs was more accurate than that of Shuʻbah who read according to ibn Masood.

The fact that scholars of Hadeeth declared Hafs a weak reporter in the field of Hadeeth does not undermine his great status in the field of Quran recitation.

Hadith have been called by some as "the backbone" of Islamic civilization, and for many the authority of hadith is a source for religious and moral guidance known as Sunnah, which ranks second only to that of the Quran.
So you see the Quran is most important.

Never will the Jews or Christians be pleased with you until you follow their way.

I don't need you to be pleased with me.
حَسْبُنَا اللَّهُ وَنِعْمَ الْوَكِيلُ

I raised the Issue of Hafs because you Muslims vehemently rejected the report of Ibn Ishaq because you claim he took a false hadith from a woman.
BUT
Now Hafs and his father is even worse of with Lies, Dishonesty and Fabrications according you Muslims yet you TOOK your Qur'an from his RECITATION!

Is this not hypocrisy and double standard?


Who am I!?
I am not striving to be pleased with you sir: I want you not to Reject the Messiah's gift for your Salvation. This you can do when you start with asking Questions and not swallowing line hook and sinker the preferred narratives of some people using Taqqiya on you. QED!

Start with:
Why would Allah send Jesus with such an attribute given to no human being on earth?
Did the Almighty Allah fail in his purpose?

The only reason we couldn't reach a consensus is not because of you as a person, it is because of conflicting reports in your religious literatures.


I'll like to beg you that we suspend this topic for now sir. It has been intellectually rewarding having time with you sir.

Thank you sir

Explore2xmore:
Within and without Mutah classification there are so many temporal marriage relations in the world today. This has little to do with Islam.

At least we agree that
1. Allah prescribed Mutah rather than castration before it was abrogated
2. it was Umar that finally banned Mutah.

We want to paint the foundation of Islam as beautiful and glorious unfortunately, in many instances it isn't. They are just human beings.

Mohammed kissed the back stone (a religious object of the polytheists) : if not because it is well documented in your books, we would have said that it is ALSO a fabrication

Explore2xmore:
With regard to Tafseer al-Jalaalayn (by Jalaal ad-Deen as-Suyooti and Jalaal ad-Deen al-Muhalli), it is a good tafseer and summary, but it is not free of some shortcomings, especially with regard to the attributes of Allah and matters of ‘aqeedah (belief), in which it follows the madhhab of the Ash‘aris.

The tale of Gharaniq was mentioned by many scholars of Tafsir (explanation of the meanings of the Qur’an) in their interpretation of Allah’s Saying (the meanings of which are translated as), Never did We send a Messenger or a Prophet before you but when he did recite the revelation or narrated or spoke, Shaitân (Satan) threw (some falsehood) in it. (Surah Al-Hajj, 22: 52), and in the Tafsir of Allah’s Saying, Have you then considered Al-Lât, and Al-‘Uzzâ (two idols of the pagan Arabs) And Manât (another idol of the pagan Arabs), the other third? It was narrated through many chains of narration with different wordings.However, all of them are Mursal (with no Companion of the Prophet in the chain of narration), and were never reported through authentic chains of narration, as mentioned by Al-Hafizh ibn Kathir (may Allah be merciful to him) in his Tafsir. After he mentioned this tale through all its chains of narration, he said, “However, all of them are Mursal and disconnected.”

Ibn Khuzaymah said that this tale was fabricated by the Zanadiqah (Heretics); it was also denied by Abu Bakr ibn Al-‘Araby, Al-Qadi ‘Iyad and others, who disapproved of both its Sanad (chain of narrators) and Matn (the text). As for the Sanad, it is due to the above-mentioned reasons. As for the Matn, it is due to what was stated by Ibn Al-‘Araby that when Allah (Exalted be He) sends the Angel to His Messenger, He instills in him (His Messenger) the knowledge that it is the Angel who sends down Wahy (Revelation) to him; Satan can never put on his lips words, which throw him into confusion, and so he recites them as Qur’an. As there is Ijma‘ (unanimous consensus) on the infallibility of the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) and the impossibility of his committing Shirk (associating others with Allah in His Divinity or worship), he could not have said these words by mistake, or thinking that they were Qur’an. He could not have preferred pleasing his people over pleasing his Lord, which made him wish that Allah would not reveal anything to him that might displease them. Moreover, the evidence used to prove the authenticity of this tale, which is inferred from Allah’s saying, Verily, they were about to tempt you away from that which We have revealed (the Qur’ân) unto you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم), to fabricate something other than it against Us (Surah Al-Isra’, 17: 73) certainly does not prove its authenticity. Rather, it proves the innocence of the Prophet (peace be upon him) of the accusation of reciting these polytheistic words, as the Ayah indicates denial and negation, not affirmation.It is also evident that Satan merely threw some falsehood into his recitation, but he did put such polytheistic words on his tongue nor inspired these words inside him, which he actually recited, read, or uttered, whether inattentively, by mistake or on purpose, until Jibril (Gabriel) came and corrected him, and he (peace be upon him) grieved over what happened. It was not also proven that the Ayah was revealed to console the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) for what he was afflicted with according to this tale, to prop up such an interpretation with all the errors that it contains.

The Jumhur (dominant majority) of Ahl-ul-Sunnah (those adhering to the Sunnah) agreed with Ibn Al-‘Araby on what he said. They stated that the meaning of the Ayah is: Never did Allah send a Messenger or a Prophet before you (O Muhammad) but when he did recite the revelation or narrated or spoke, a devil from among mankind or jinn would throw during his recitation or speech some false words spoken by that devil and heard by the attendants. Or the devil would whisper evil thoughts to the Kafirs (disbelievers) and hypocrites who thought them to be part of the Wahy, while they are not so. Allah then abolishes whatever words, whisperings or deception which Satan throws in and completely eliminates them, to establish the truth by His Words, for the Perfection of His Knowledge and Profound Wisdom. This is the Way of Allah with His Messengers, Prophets and their enemies, to fulfill the purpose of trying and testing mankind, so that the wicked is distinguished from the good; so that the Kafirs and hypocrites who are to be destroyed through their following the falsehood that Satan casts may be destroyed after a clear evidence, and the people of unwavering faith, whose hearts rest secure in Iman (belief), who are guided to the Straight Path, may live after clear evidence.

Thus, it becomes clear through the previously mentioned that the tale of Gharaniq is false. Satan does not have the power to thrust some falsehood into the mouth of the Prophet (peace be upon him) which he then recites or utters. Satan might have thrown some false words while the Prophet (peace be upon him) was reciting; words which were uttered by Satan and heard by the attendants, or Satan might have whispered some evil inspirations in the soul of the disbelievers and hypocrites, which they thought them to be part of the Wahy, while they are not. Allah then abolishes such Satanic sayings, eliminates misconception and establishes His revelations.

It also becomes clear that the opinion of Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Abdul-Wahab (may Allah be merciful to him) is the same of the Jumhur (dominant majority) of scholars, which holds that Satan has thrown some falsehood or evil whispering during recitation, but certainly not on the tongue of the Prophet (peace be upon him), or in his soul, or in the souls of the true believers. It was only in the ears of Kafirs, or inside their souls, which they thought to be part of the Qur’an. The wisdom of Allah entails that He destroys falsehood and establishes His revelations, so that the truth triumphs out of His Mercy to the people. Allah is All-Knowledgeable, All-Wise. The scholars of Islam are unanimously agreed on the infallibility of Messengers in all and everything that they convey from Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) to mankind.

If I get your argument as per why you think the satanic verses are impossible for Mohammed to recite
1. Al-Suyuti and Ibn Ishaq are respected Muslims and doesn't have anything to gain by reporting Falsehood against their esteemed prophet Mohammed
2. Al-Jalalyn is a trusted Islamic scholar who should know better than modern Muslims about the authenticity of the historical accounts of Mohammed.
3. Ibn Khuzaymah who said that this tale was fabricated by the Heretics himself cannot be trusted as he was born in the 9th century the report of Al-Suyuti and Ibn Ishaq were from the 7th century. In other words Ibn Khuzaymah just like you modern Muslims is just trying to clean up the narrative of the satanic verses.
4. You Muslims on the other hand also say that Mohammed is an ordinary human being like you and me.


Finally, if we go by the argument that the satanic verses should be discarded on the basis of chains of Narrative,
1. Can we discard everything in Islam without a perfect chain of Narrative?
Is there any chain of Narrative between Jubril and Mohammed? Does this mean nothing of visitations exist?
2. What is the chain of Narrative proving the exact opposite with respect to the satanic verses?
3. Are you aware that other scholars like Al Tabari and Ibn Sa'd also wrote about the satanic verses. Are they also mistaken?
Do we modern Muslims know better than them? I can qive you quotations if you like from both of them.


My problem is that:
Anything we don't like about about the history of Islam, we want to erase it from history as fabrications.

Usually, when a history depicts weakness of the main character by historian emotionally involved, the story is most likely true. The history to doubt are the ones that are nice reports.

Example :
1. Prophet Muhammad's teeth were broken during the Battle of Uhud is most likely AUTHENTIC good chains of Narrative or not

2. Jesus being crucified stark naked on the cross on the hill by the Romans is most likely AUTHENTIC good chains of Narrative or not

Why?
These stories present the greatest icon in their religion in his most weakest and vulnerable state. There is nothing the story teller want to gain personally with the story.



Like I said earlier :
You have tried your best and you are indeed more knowledgeable that most here. We can have other times to study and chat on our different opinions with respect to our faith.


With Respect sir
I bow out of this discussion.
Thank you for your time with me.

Read these verses that you hold on to as Satanic and use your senses hopefully you have enough to discern.

52:19:So have you considered al-Lat and al-'Uzza?

20:And Manat, the third - the other one?

21:Is the male for you and for Him the female?

22: That, then, is an unjust division.

23: They are not but [mere] names you have named them - you and your forefathers - for which Allah has sent down no authority. They follow not except assumption and what [their] souls desire, and there has already come to them from their Lord guidance.


Are you aware of the Pagan practice of ignorance and killing the female child at birth?

In these verses, Allah is telling the disbelievers to think logically about their ridiculous beliefs. They used to value sons more than daughters, but then attributed daughters to Allah! What sense does that make? Does God have something they considered inferior, and they had the superior thing? It doesn’t make sense.

Then, Allah concludes by stating that these idols are nothing but invented names that their ancestors came up with.

Explore2xmore:
Read these verses that you hold on to as Satanic and use your senses hopefully you have enough to discern.

52:19:So have you considered al-Lat and al-'Uzza?

20:And Manat, the third - the other one?

21:Is the male for you and for Him the female?

22: That, then, is an unjust division.

23: They are not but [mere] names you have named them - you and your forefathers - for which Allah has sent down no authority. They follow not except assumption and what [their] souls desire, and there has already come to them from their Lord guidance.


Are you aware of the Pagan practice of ignorance and killing the female child at birth?

In these verses, Allah is telling the disbelievers to think logically about their ridiculous beliefs. They used to value sons more than daughters, but then attributed daughters to Allah! What sense does that make? Does God have something they considered inferior, and they had the superior thing? It doesn’t make sense.

Then, Allah concludes by stating that these idols are nothing but invented names that their ancestors came up with.

Even though this is your preferred Narrative, your early Islamic Scholars such as
Ibn Ishaq,
Al-Jalalyn,
At-Suyuti
Al-Tabari
Ibn Sa'd,
Ibn Hisham
Al Waqidi et al. say quite the opposite.

Even Imam Bukhari's hadith say opposite

Sahih Bukhari 6:60:385
Narrated Ibn Abbas: The Prophet performed a prostration when he finished reciting Surat-an-Najm, and all the Muslims and pagans and Jinns and human beings prostrated along with him.






Who do you advise I believe?

Please let's close this chapter. I appreciate your input sir.

Of course you cannot discern from the translations of the meaning of these verses written.

What are Uzza, Lat and Manna aren't they female pagan gods?

Did the Pagan arabians commit infanticide?

Is there a prostration at the end of Surah Najm?

Are there verses in the Quran where prostration (sujud) is practiced?

Mr airplane cleaner that stumbled on a book talking about how to start and fly an airplane not knowing how to land was in another book.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Explore2xmore:
Of course you cannot discern from the translations of the meaning of these verses written.

What are Uzza, Lat and Manna aren't they female pagan gods?

Did the Pagan arabians commit infanticide?

Is there a prostration at the end of Surah Najm?

Are there verses in the Quran where prostration (sujud) is practiced?

Mr airplane cleaner that stumbled on a book talking about how to start and fly an airplane not knowing how to land was in another book.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Even though this is your preferred Narrative, your early Islamic Scholars such as
Ibn Ishaq,
Al-Jalalyn,
At-Suyuti
Al-Tabari
Ibn Sa'd,
Ibn Hisham
Al Waqidi et al. say quite the opposite.

Even Imam Bukhari's hadith say opposite

Sahih Bukhari 6:60:385
Narrated Ibn Abbas: The Prophet performed a prostration when he finished reciting Surat-an-Najm, and all the Muslims and pagans and Jinns and human beings prostrated along with him.






Who do you advise I believe?

Please let's close this chapter. I appreciate your input sir.