tpia@:

other names include odiri [meaning king's son]- probably odili today.

kamalu, long form of kalu.

enugu used to be known as elugu, showing some consonants have been changed.

if there's an actual town called elugu today, in the southeast, then i stand corrected.

Actually all those names are the same in different dialects.Elugu is more or less the lower half of Igbo that would use it as hilltop in reference to people living up North.

@tpia here are some switch of "L" and "N" in Igbo dialects

Up - Elu - Enu. eg Enugu or Elugu

Land - Ali - Ani (Ala and Ana). eg Alioma(Alaoma) or Anioma(Anaoma)

Abagworo:

Elugu is more or less the lower half of Igbo that would use it as hilltop in reference to people living up North.

quite correct about the hill top meaning.

however, isnt enugu itself northern igboland.

Up - Elu - Enu. eg Enugu or Elugu

seems elugu is elu ugwu.

elu is hill, or up.

also, @ topic

some old igbo names are based on market days, as we can see from this write up:

http://www.crvp.org/book/Series02/II-3/chapter_viii.htm


majority of the female names used to start with nw, for some reason. I'd noticed this before.

tpia@:

other names include odiri [meaning king's son]- probably odili today.

kamalu, long form of kalu.

enugu used to be known as elugu, showing some consonants have been changed.

if there's an actual town called elugu today, in the southeast, then i stand corrected.

elu ugwu [elugu] means hill top.

Enugwu has always been known as Enugwu. Elu and Enu are just dialectal. In the north and west it's Enu while the south and east say it as elu, nothing more.

Odiri means it's there. For example Chukwudiri and Chukwudili are the exact same thing and both forms are still used today.

Traditionally males and females were named based on the market days but this wasn't always the Case.
Males born on nkwo answered either Nwankwo or Okonkwo. Females born on Nkwo answered Mgbokwo
Males born on eke answered either Okeke females answers Mgbeke
Males born on orie answered Okorie and in some areas Okoye or Nworie and females Mgborie
Makes born on afor answered Nwafor or Okafor females were Mgbafor.

Gbam. I wouldn't have said it better.

Chinenye, as a fellow proud Ngwa man,  I would advice that you deviate from this your imagined Southern vs Northern Igbo dichotomy that you are constantly peddling. There's a north, south, east and west in everything, even in Ngwaland there's a northern(Isialangwa) and a southern(Obiomangwa) axis. I simply don't understand why you are so keen to establish this division in every Igbo thread. Ndi-Ngwa fiercly protect our identity, but we are genuinly as Igbo as it gets, and we are not a group that somehow fell under Igbo influence. We are not some people with identity crisis, so please lets act like it. Thank you.

You wouldn't have said anything to begin with, we both know.

tpia@:

assuming igbo was a name form in the olden days, then it should have a specific meaning which is decipherable as well.

Indications so far show that [i]igbo [/i]had a specific meaning, but no one now knows the exact translation. The closest people have been able to conjecture for a 'translation' is "community", based on the usage seen in names.

ChinenyeN:

You wouldn't have said anything to begin with, we both know.

Yes because I'm tired of it. When I posted a link Physics provided on ancient Bini tale on creation, you did not comment.
I will assume that now, you have admitted that some people were known by the name "Igbo" in antiquity and that Igbo wasn't a recent invention.

Obiagu1:

I will assume that now, you have admitted that some people were known by the name "Igbo" and that Igbo wasn't a recent invention.

I never said [i]igbo [/i]was a recent invention. In fact, I actually believe the opposite. Is that what you're problem is? If it is, then clearly you've assumed too much.

Quote: Obiagu1

. . . and who told you Igbos were not known as Igbos in ancient times? Igbo is one of the groups in Nigeria that maintained their name. Bring Benin tales or any other groups' tale about the Igbo, we have always been known as Igbo.

Your reply

Stop telling lies (the bolded in particular).

Let me put it this way to help you better understand, if you do not understand already. I believe the word "igbo" has a place in antiquity, but I do not buy the claims of a pan-"Igbo" identity from time immemorial. There is nothing like "we have always been Igbo", but that doesn't mean that I believe the word "igbo" is recent.

ChinenyeN:

You said "we" (i.e. all the collective people from Izii to Akpohia, Ika to Ndoki) and then you said "have always been known as Igbo". I call that a lie.

When I said "we", I was referring to Igbos and no other people. Those that do not belong to the group "Igbo" do not fell under that "we".

No single clan is called Igbo and every clan has their own unique name.

The tale was about creation of the Southern peoples surrounding Bini: Yoruba, Itsekiri, Urhobo and Igbo. Ika was not mentioned.

Whether you accept what your brother KC said or not, I can't change you.

ChinenyeN:

Let me put it this way to help you better understand, if you do not understand already. I believe the word "igbo" has a place in antiquity, but I do not buy the claims of a pan-"Igbo" identity from time immemorial. There is nothing like "we have always been Igbo", but that doesn't mean that I believe the word "igbo" is recent.

There is nothing like pan-Igbo because nobody (clan, town, village, family) is Igbo. If you are not Igbo, I am not Igbo too because I'm proud of my clan's name as well.

But I know that a people which no one can remember where they are were known as Igbo. So who are Igbo and where do they live?

Though I very much appreciate KC being straight with me, his suggestion has nothing to do with our discussion, right now. I also doubt it is about change, but that is a completely different topic, and I am sure you don't want to get into it. After all, "you wouldn't have said anything to begin with, we both know".

Obiagu1:

When I said "we", I was referring to Igbos and no other people. Those that do not belong to the group "Igbo" do not fell under that "we".

Why do you insist on such an over-reaching claim? Where is the truth behind it?

ChinenyeN:

Though I very much appreciate KC being straight with me, his suggestion has nothing to do with our discussion, right now. I also doubt it is about change, but that is a completely different topic, and I am sure you don't want to get into it. After all, "you wouldn't have said anything to begin with, we both know".

Why do you insist on such an over-reaching claim? Where is the truth behind it?

There's nothing over-reaching about my statement. The topic changed to Igbo discussion and I made that statement which you said I lied.
Igbos have always been known as Igbos (True or false?)

Now you'll want to say that clan A or clan B was not known as Igbo before but my statement was very clear; we (Igbos) have always been known as Igbos, and there is no ambiguity in it. I didn't say clan A or clan B or town C or town D; all I said was "Igbo" and Igbos have always been known as Igbos.

Now this brings us to KC's statement: Ndi-Ngwa fiercly protect our identity, but we are genuinly as Igbo as it gets, and we are not a group that somehow fell under Igbo influence. We are not some people with identity crisis.

[quote author=Obiagu1 link=topic=790801.msg9440409#msg9440409 date=1319856834]
There's nothing over-reaching about my statement. The topic changed to Igbo discussion and I made that statement which you said I lied.
Igbos have always been known as Igbos (True or false?)[/QUOTE]
False. Show me the evidence. Show me where in oral traditions these groups claimed to know what "igbo" is. Come and tell me about Ngwa oral history and traditions and tell me "we have always been known as Igbo". You keep making all of these claims, but what do you even know about the people you are making claims about? What do you know about Ngwa? What do you know about Ndoki? What do you know about Asa? What do you know about Echie? What do you know about Ikwere? What do you know about Akpohia? What do you know about Ohnuhnu? What do you know about Ahiara? What do you know about Okpala? What do you know about Ulakwo? Please, tell me. You insist that "we have always been known as Igbo", but you cannot tell me anything about the aforementioned groups' traditions.

In short, this is just like the claim of Nri hegemony in that thread about Nri visiting Virginia. One OfoIgbo insisted on Nri cultural/religious hegemony, even in the face of contradicting evidence. He even went the length of being so bold as to say to me "such and such never happened in Ngwa", and that is exactly what you are beginning to sound like right now (note, this is not an avenue to get into anything about Nri. The above is just an example, comparing the nature of your claim to that of OfoIgbo).

KC is correct about what he said about Ngwa people, me inclusive. I don't have a problem with us being Igbo people (which Ngwa does?), but I do have a problem when people make it a priority to make over-reaching claims like "we have always been Igbo". I have a problem when Igbo people, who are ignorant of certain people's traditions, culture and society make such blanket and unfounded claims; struggling so hard to forge a false sense of some kind of "homogeneity in antiquity".

We are Igbo people now, but that doesn't mean you have to lie about the past; "we have always been known as Igbo"; abaraka.

I have a brother inlaw from Ngwa, I never knew his people are not Igbo people. What is wrong with this boy Chinenye?

No where did I state that Ngwa isn't Igbo. We've been through this already with that rabid EzeUche, and it's the same thing over and over again; people reading what I never wrote. No one has any business making such a mistake, unless they're as clouded-minded as EzeUche was/is. In that case, you will have only yourself to blame for making the mistake of seeing what's not there.

Ngwa nka la a koruora okhe ngwhere ya akuruo isi, but I guess that does not apply to any of you, in this case.

I see Chinenyes point. From what I perceive, he's trying to say the the "Igbo" identity did not have as large an impact as it does today. Rewind four hundred years and if you asked (let's say Chinenye) what he was he'd tell you he was Ngwa. Today he'd probably Igbo, but despite that he still is Ngwa.

This doesn't mean that in the precolonial days people didn't see themselves as Igbo, they did but not with the same significance it bears today, atleast in some places. For example a guy from Owerre in the 1700s knew that there were Igbos all around him and that he was one of them also, but his city state or land was Owerre. Back then they didn't view people as "different" on the way that we view do today. For example if you walked up to that Owerre man and said "I'm Igbo we are brothers!" he'd say "Are you mad? We both speak Igbo, so what's new? I am from Owerre and you from Asaba."

The Igbo identity is something they saw equal as the concept of "humanity". We are both humans so what's the big deal? The strong Igbo identity started to form as our ancestors grew more aware of the different people's around them (Ijaws, Ibibios, Edos etc). This Igbo identity also grew stronger on areas where there were different ethnic groups like the cross river as opposed to the Igbo heartland where everyone is Igbo. The Aros developed a strong identity as Igbos since it was their uniting factor with other Igbo groups in the Cross-River area that helped them federate and fight off non Igbo peoples like the Ibibios, hence earning them the term "Aro-Okigbo" which existed prior to colonisation.

I hope you guys get what I'm getting at.

ChinenyeN:

False. Show me the evidence. Show me where in oral traditions these groups claimed to know what "igbo" is. Come and tell me about Ngwa oral history and traditions and tell me "we have always been known as Igbo". You keep making all of these claims, but what do you even know about the people you are making claims about? What do you know about Ngwa? What do you know about Ndoki? What do you know about Asa? What do you know about Echie? What do you know about Ikwere? What do you know about Akpohia? What do you know about Ohnuhnu? What do you know about Ahiara? What do you know about Okpala? What do you know about Ulakwo? Please, tell me. You insist that "we have always been known as Igbo", but you cannot tell me anything about the aforementioned groups' traditions.

In short, this is just like the claim of Nri hegemony in that thread about Nri visiting Virginia. One OfoIgbo insisted on Nri cultural/religious hegemony, even in the face of contradicting evidence. He even went the length of being so bold as to say to me "such and such never happened in Ngwa", and that is exactly what you are beginning to sound like right now (note, this is not an avenue to get into anything about Nri. The above is just an example, comparing the nature of your claim to that of OfoIgbo).

KC is correct about what he said about Ngwa people, me inclusive. I don't have a problem with us being Igbo people (which Ngwa does?), but I do have a problem when people make it a priority to make over-reaching claims like "we have always been Igbo". I have a problem when Igbo people, who are ignorant of certain people's traditions, culture and society make such blanket and unfounded claims; struggling so hard to forge a false sense of some kind of "homogeneity in antiquity".

We are Igbo people now, but that doesn't mean you have to lie about the past; "we have always been known as Igbo"; abaraka.

Don't tell me about Etche, Ahiara, Ngwa etc.
If you're not Igbo before, you are not Igbo today. As simple as that.
Igbos have always known themselves as Igbo. We know ourselves. My family was Nri that moved to present day "Anioma" but moved back to Nri area in the past. My generations have always known themselves as Igbo and it has not changed.
If you don't belong, you don't belong. Period.

Igbo is Igbo and has always been Igbo. So move on.

Now back to the topic: What is the reason behind bearing names with Igbo suffixes and prefixes among Igbo?
Non-Igbos, don't derail the thread if you have nothing meaningful to contribute.

It seems in ancient times igbo was the name of a town to the south of enugu.

Back then people considered their ethnicity to be that of their idividual hometowns.

The people to the north of igboland now applied the name to their southern neighbours, and that was how it stuck. Maybe they had some dealings with the actual town called igbo?

Also, the europeans in america especially tagged every african brought in from a particular area, igbo. So with time, the entire area came to self identify as igbo.

Anyone who is annoyed by my posts here should attack me when i get back. I need to log off now.

odumchi:

I hope you guys get what I'm getting at.

Trust me, they get it. Ngwa nka la a koruora okhe ngwhere ya akuruo isi. I don't think anyone here is an ideot. They understand what you're saying. Likewise, they understand what I'm saying. So, understanding simply isn't the problem. Instead, if I were to make an educated guess, I would say that bias is. My reasoning is simple. I make a simple, straightforward statement, and for reasons best known to them, they inappropriately respond with comments such as "Why are you always bringing division", or EzeUche's favorite line "he's a threat to Igbo unity", or my personal all-time favorite, "Are you Igbo or not?"

I make a simple, straightforward statement, and they say that I'm denying Igbo. I make a simple straightforward comment, and all of a sudden they regurgitate responses to things I never said. Understanding isn't the issue. If it were, there wouldn't be a need for us to go through this nonsense, time after time after time.

Obiagu1:

Don't tell me about Etche, Ahiara, Ngwa etc.
If you're not Igbo before, you are not Igbo today. As simple as that.
Igbos have always known themselves as Igbo. We know ourselves. My family was Nri that moved to present day "Anioma" but moved back to Nri area in the past. My generations have always known themselves as Igbo and it has not changed.
If you don't belong, you don't belong. Period.

Igbo is Igbo and has always been Igbo. So move on.

Now back to the topic: What is the reason behind bearing names with Igbo suffixes and prefixes among Igbo?
Non-Igbos, don't derail the thread if you have nothing meaningful to contribute.

"Don't tell me about Etche, Ahiara, Ngwa etc.?"
You sound just like OfoIgbo, making ignorant statements and claims. Learn to limit your use of "we". Stop including people you know nothing about.

ChinenyeN:

"Don't tell me about Etche, Ahiara, Ngwa etc.?"
You sound just like OfoIgbo, making ignorant statements and claims. Learn to limit your use of "we". Stop including people you know nothing about.

This will be the last time you'll reply anything I posted, just respect that.

Obiagu1:

This will be the last time you'll reply anything I posted, just respect that.

Who are you? Are you seriously making an attempt to issue a command to me? I don't bow down to your Nri. So I certainly won't bow to the likes of you.

But. . we could likely hash out something conditional. After all, where two or more Igbo are gathered, a transaction is occurring.

And The Condition Is This:
You don't have to lie about Igbo for Igbo to exist and thrive. So, once you stop making false, over-reaching claims, and once you stop including people you know nothing about in those over-reaching, false claims, then maybe. . possibly. . your chi permitting. . you might get your wish of me not replying the things you post.

Until then, liala hnwe ojoo nye ohnuhnu, because I will not be apologetic with any of you any longer. Feel free to maintain your bias concerning me, if you like.

Whatever your misguided, self-imposed exiled, Osu father had brainwashed you with is none of my business. You are not by anyway called Igbo or your family called Igbo. When you read a post from me with Igbo in it, turn a blind eye to it and move on. You're not here to be posting the same crap every time to derail every thread to your silly line of discussion that gives you org.asm; Igbo thread is Igbo thread and must not end up discussing clan A or clan B.

If you wish to discuss clan A or clan B, open threads for them (You never opened one anyway). Like I said, if you were not called Igbo in the past, you are not Igbo today. As simple as that.

Just move on.

And here it is. Yes, allow the bile and the bias to spew out of your mouth. Say those derogatory words that will make you feel good. Make strides to insult me and my father, and my 'clan'. Exhibit the character flaws of the one and only EzeUche, whom you prided around NL as a 'Champion of the Igbo Cause'. That is the only thing you want to do. You never intend on having any form of discourse with me, from the get go. From the first time you registered on NL (Aug. 9th 2010), and your first post to me on Aug. 20th 2010, your bias was fermented. You graciously, without so much as a reasonable thought, jumped on the EzeUche bandwagon, never thinking once to sit down and have a simple discussion with me, just for the sake of understanding. What? You think I'd forget?

See your very first post ever to me, only 11 days after you registered here on NL.

and you that was born in 1630 know that Igbos were not called Igbos then, right?
and you forced it on the Europeans to call Igboland "Eboe country", right?
and you discredit some of the written accounts of Igbos in the Americas, right?

I have some drugs for you if you care to recover from your sickness 

And now see the post you were responding to; my post. See what supposedly warranted such a disgusting response

Obiagu1, Olaudah's legitimacy is in question. Aside from that though, what Ikengawo is speaking of is the contemporary idea of "Igbo" ethnic group that we have now. So, he's very much correct in making that statement.

I'll sum up my thoughts on those two quotes by quoting something which I stated earlier on in this topic:

ChinenyeN:

I make a simple straightforward comment, and all of a sudden they regurgitate responses to things I never said.

I will not be apologetic with you, Obiagu1. Instead, I will shove my direct and blunt nature in you face and down your throat. You love your bias. So you should just as well choke on it. Ebele ngwa njhe iwa l'obe ma a tukpafu ahu.

Chinenyen,you sounded like a treacherous fool!!
From today, I FORBID u from partaking in anything that has to do with Igbo here on nairaland!!! From today go and open as many "NGWA" thread as you can and stay far the phuck away from anything Igbo, what a recalcitrant Arrow!!
You can be repugnant as well as respectful at the same time by giving respect and honor to somebody whom through a lot of people here on nrlnd has learnt alot about the Igbo nation.
Trully, u sound like a BANNISHED OSU!!
Just stay away from the Igbos or I will take the responsibility of keeping ur mind straight like an ATURU. LOST FOOL!!

Nri Priests, you sound like EzeUche.

[b]By The Way: [/b]EzeUche, should you be reading any of this, then it would be in both of our best interests that you understand that I'm only using you as an example, since your behavior was classical and exemplary of the kind of thing I am conveying in my posts. So it is only more convenient that I simply use your name, rather than go through the unnecessary hassle of compounding adjectives upon adjectives. That's all there is to it, and I figured you need to know, because as far as I'm concerned, you and I are cool, and there's really no need to begin any unwarranted back-and-forth nonsense over a single misunderstanding that could have been preemptively avoided. This'll probably be the last time I use your name like this though, for the sake of eliminated a very unnecessary redundancy.

Also, for the record, don't think you're getting anywhere by using "osu" as an insult. Ngwa don't have osu. So the weight you assume it has in your mind is null in mine.

NRI PRIEST:

Just stay away from the Igbos or I will take the responsibility of keeping your mind straight like an ATURU. LOST FOOL!!

This could be interesting. Take the responsibility, you say? Well, I would at the very least be impressed if you at least tried to keep to your word. So, I just might. . maybe. . in some way. . expect to see you fulfill (or at least attempt to fulfill) your self-imposed responsibility of keeping my mind straight.

I didn't think that the Nri had Osus either. lol.

lakal:

I didn't think that the Nri had Osus either. lol.

Am I even sure you understood the context in which I made that statement? Or are you just saying this, just to say it?