Regarding the question about when you know witchcraft is real: Occultic witchcraft (which HP is NOT, as I will show in a moment) is, unfortunately, real, and we can tell by the fact that they draw their power not from themselves, but from others (demons and evil spirits).

In the HP books however, several things absolutely disprove Rowling's version of magic as being the occultic magick. 1) The spelling of the word is different, implying the same idea of "magic" you get when you go to a magic show, as opposed to occultic "magick." 2) The power to use magic in HP supposedly comes from within, whereas occultic magick is drawn from others. 3) Occultic magick is something learned (and I say that with the greatest distaste), whereas in HP, you're either born with the ability or not.

These are the biggest (though certainly not the only) distinctions that need to be made. I would ask that no more people claim that HP is representative of true occult until and unless they are ready to defend those claims.

Chanfb:

Harry Potter does encourage withcraft! These books are teaching children to cast spells and vexes on others as well as to have them to be changed into other images. I remember not too long ago how when a Harry Potter book was being released children where sleeping in front of books stores to get the book. That is idolzing! We need to teach our children the truth so they can be set free.

About teaching children spells: That is impossible. The "spells" in HP are no more than mangled Latin (and other languages), put together to make funny sounding words. I can shout 'Accio pen' and wave a stick about all I want, but the pen is never going to come to me.

About idolizing: Is camping in front of book stores a strict dychotomy for idolization, or do we need to introduce a different (and possibly arbitrary) brightline?

And to back the few posters above, why is HP worse than fairy tales, or Shakespeare's "Macbeth" and "The Tempest", or the Chronicles of Narnia, or the Lord of the Rings, or ancient mythology, or so many others?

drawing power from yourself or drawing it from others has the same effect: none.

1) There is no power in witchcraft
2) The harm involved is serving something other than God
3) If harry potter is bad, we gotta ban disney, and every children's cartoon, every movie, at least half of all fiction books because they all require a "suspension of disbelief" which call it what you wish, that's what magic is.

I agree that there is no power in witchcraft but the important thing is that it is teaching children to conjure power from themselves and the not Our Holy and Matchless God!

I don't really know if there is any such thing as witchcraft.
Harry potter isn't about glamorising magic any more that superman glamorises jumping out of windows.

Harry potter is about friendship, growing up, relationships and all the other complexities of life. It deals with loads of feelings and emotions that children and adults deal with and have to deal whit in future. It teaches people that life is not black and white in a way that makes its readers more appreciative of other people, more understanding, and thus better people. I think they are a great set of books with so much positivity to offer any reader, and do not deserve to be spoken ill of.

Personally, i think JK. Rowling's writing is positively inspiring. I challenge anybody to read them and not feel better for it!
I am currently half way through the half blood prince... i am an AVID FAN! !! !! !!

I don't think there is anything "witchy" about Harry Potter. I've read all the books and watched all the movies myself, and I think it's alright for kids as well as adults. Hell, if we stop our kids from movies like HP( in which the main actors are kids themselves), what do we then allow these children watch? Church programs? Because I think you can pick holes in almost every kiddies movie or books, in much the same way we condemn Harry Potter for witchcraft.

BTW, J.K Rowling's Harry Potter is fiction. I don't think the spells in those books can even turn ON a light bulb.

Hello..

i read all HP-Books and i loved them. The movies...well...not bad i would say.

I think, Books as HP should be read from kids only at an older age, maybe from 10-12 years on. At this age most kids by the way have seen more horrible things than told in the novels. And at this age the understand, what reality is all about!

When i was 12 y., we had criminals and drug-dealers at school, Parents beating each other, Tschernobyl in TV and so on. Just watch the evening-news. They are more brutal than any book.

I believe, that if you have good parents, who educate you well about everything in life (religion/health/history etc.), than there should be no big harm from a book.

Did anyone here ever try Stephen King? Did you folks become killers later because of that?

greetz

Fumi

Okay, i am a little late for this discussion but i must reply anyway. All of this about Harry Potter have occult undertones and major influence has really been misleading. For those who actually picked the book up the one thing that the everyone isn't very happy with is Divination. This is the ONLY magic in the book that is anywhere close to modern witchcraft. Harry and Ron are fully aware of the nonesense divination is; heck, even Dumbledore denounces it at the end of Goblet of fire. To many concerned Christian parents, this book is quite frightning because of media and other inaccurate sources. To help anyone really concerned... Wicca, Harry Potter and Satanism are all extremely different topics and should not be meshed together as one. the first mistake being that Satanism and the occult and neo-paganism are one. Satan who comes from Christian beliefs could not possibly come from Neo-paganism considering they don't believe in Heaven and hell...devil and god..so on. Second mistake is thinking Harry Potter is some sort of manual for real witchcraft. Oh geeze, those spells in that book hold no truth. If theres any magic that actually exists its the use of ones energy, real human energy. See, if the parents are being delusional how possibly are their children supposed to understand concepts...by mingling religion and fantasy, you're all creating your own nightmares. If you feel uncomfortable with the books that's fine..but don't proclaim that its something it isn't. If you feel your children are too influenced by it, discuss it, let them know that witchcraft simply doesn't exist...because it doesn't.

allonym:

[SNIP]
Parents should have to speak once, and the children OBEY. That is what it says in the bible.

Yes, and if they don't, you are well within your right to kill them, biblically speaking

i dont agree i have a 6 year old brother who reads them and im more obbessed with harry potter nobody can beat me in harry potter sceneIt i have even beaten my father who reads the book every week i read them about everyday i have read harry potter and the half blood prince abput 15 time the same month it came out im very curious why people say harry potter induces witchcraft it doesn't if they pratice witchcraft thatas their problem not yours dont try to make people change their opinions on harry potter i know the whole entire cast personally and i know joan she wrote this book and its a great hit if kid want to read it let them its thier choice not the parent!!!!!!![center][/center]

Una go kill person O! Now I've got a belly ache from too much laughter,

Isolating kids from society and whats "out there" , will surely prevent them from having a fighting chance in the world. Of course there should be some boundaries, and if HP falls outside the borders you've set out for your kids, so be it.

I, for instance learnt somethings my parents would certainly not have approved of, but I still maintained the strong core of values they worked so hard to impart( even if I say so myself).

The reason why people are so afraid of TV, video games, etc, is because they abdicate their dutiy of raising their kids to these media. If you watch HP with children and explain the morals to them, thats what they'll make of it.

i have read books 1,2,3,4,5, and 6. i have also seen the movies 1,2,3 &4.
i don't think it encourages anything.  i  just  love the morals of the book. Sometimes, i think people should see passed the surface of things  and try looking underneath!
life is full of GOOD and BAD things.  AND we need to know what we are dealing with and most of all GOOD will always overcome evil  on matter how is being written or perceived~!

I LOVE THE BOOK AND I ALWAYS WILL![color=#990000][/color]

The last few posts on this thread have rekindled my faith in my naija peeps.

It is heartwarmimg to see people able to see beyond the strictures that others try to impose and make judgements for themselves.

I am an old man but I like watching and reading Harry Potter. It teaches good morals and will only encourage kids to do whats right and not whats easy.

Does it encourage children to turn to wicca and such? Maybe for older teenagers, but for the most part, children find Harry Potter as a welcome escape from the world, and I believe that that's not a bad thing; children have imagination; I think it is wrong to stifle that creative spark that children posess. They have no bad intentions when they wave around a wooden stick or say the various "spells" observed in harry potter. They just wish to play and have fun. It's silly to make such a huge deal out of a children's book.

Oh, and another thing; I think that witchcraft is over dramatized. I know of many people whom practice wicca, a pagan religion, and they advocate peace and harmony, not death or torture as so many believe. Perhaps it is time that people look at the facts and stop the mindless discrimination against other religions. A pagan religion is just as valid as a monotheistic one like christianity, judaism or islam. Acceptance would make this world a much better place, or so I believe at least.

I wonder where J.K. Rowlings is getting her inspirations from. I think she sold her soul to the devil. She is a billionaire now. Perhaps it's worth it after all.

hadesanjo:

I wonder where J.K. Rowlings is getting her inspirations from. I think she sold her soul to the devil. She is a billionaire now. Perhaps it's worth it after all.

Or maybe she has a good imagination and the drive to write a book.

I have read all 6 of the Harry Potter books,  i have only read the 6th one once, but all the others.... at least 4 times. i once read 1-5 in 5 days. I have seen all the movies. I am currently writing 2 Harry Potter fan-fictions.

for all you that don't know, a fan fiction is a hypothetical story line based on the characters/setting/plot line of a T.V. show, book, movie, anime, maga, etc...

fist i would like to tell Pinky, that Siruis Black is not a bad person in the story (on the first page of this you made a comment including this) he is actually Harry's GodFather, and was betrayed and framed by Petter Pedigrew.

Now, i love these books, alot. But i'm not sure about whether they are appropriate for kids because they Do encourage witchcraft, in such a subtle way...

The main plot line is a boy who discovered he could do magic, trying to kill the most evil wizard of all time.

both Harry AND Voldemort can do magic.

Harry is good, and Voldemort is evil.

This implies that magic can be good, in certain cercumstances.

and THAT  is false.

magic, or magick or however you spell it, is when someone is using power from the Devil.

it can never be good.

although the magic in the books and movies are not real.... they symbolize and give kids ideas about REAL magic.

when a kid waves a stick around yelling 'lumos' the kid is trying to do witch craft.

he is trying to do something that is evil.

even though he can't do it... he still is trying to.

Did you all know, that JK Rowling recieves thousands, maybe even millions of letters from little kids wanting to know how to get to Hogwarts?

Kids are not smart enough to know it's not real.

But, the problem is. They are great books. They spark imagination, and let the creative juices flow. i do know though, that we CANNOT lock our children up. if we do that, they WIll rebel, take no doubt about that. or they will be so miserable that they might just cut or kill themselves. and if they do neither of those things, you would have to keep them in that bubble for their entire life. because the second they learn what the world is like, they will fall to pieces. We have to let them make their own choices. Put an age limit on it, and explain to them how magick is real, but it is never a good thing, how this is a wonderfully written book, but they have to understand that magick is not good.

so though you believe all "magic" is evil and are powers granted from the devil and children should be "protected"

You are going to perpetuate this by writing your own fanfics.

You walk a strange line. .

allonym:

so though you believe all "magic" is evil and are powers granted from the devil and children should be "protected"

You are going to perpetuate this by writing your own fanfics.

You walk a strange line. .

Ok, well, i think Children should be protected, but not to such an extent that they don't know anything about life. Magic is apart of life, because it is very real. So, they should know about it, so they can decided for themselves what to believe. Because it is not my desision for them to be a Christian... or a Muslim or a Buddist or whatever, it's their choice. I just have to not drowned them in it.

i guess i do perpetuate it by writting my own fanfics, but i do it in the name of imagination, just as i will allow my children to read them in the name of imagination, as long as they realize that magic can never be good.

my 7 year old cousin saw the movie of superman later that they he tied a wrapper arround his neck and jumped off a table he only lost one tooth..............my point children use there imagination a lot and reading a book like harry potter is not very advisable witchcraft is real belive it or not and to get children all so caught up in it is not nice teenagers and adults we mature enough but children i dont think so.......

AbbeyMarie:

Ok, well, i think Children should be protected, but not to such an extent that they don't know anything about life. Magic is apart of life, because it is very real. So, they should know about it, so they can decided for themselves what to believe. Because it is not my desision for them to be a Christian... or a Muslim or a Buddist or whatever, it's their choice. I just have to not drowned them in it.

i guess i do perpetuate it by writting my own fanfics, but i do it in the name of imagination, just as i will allow my children to read them in the name of imagination, as long as they realize that magic can never be good.

i cannot understand why a person would think something is evil and yet contribute to it.

luridguy:

my 7 year old cousin saw the movie of superman later that they he tied a wrapper arround his neck and jumped off a table he only lost one tooth..............my point children use there imagination a lot and reading a book like harry potter is not very advisable witchcraft is real believe it or not and to get children all so caught up in it is not nice teenagers and adults we mature enough but children i don't think so.......

Parenting is supposed to correct things like that. Otherwise, the kids will grow up to be adults that still think they can fly like superman (assuming they haven't already tried it and found out for themselves that they cannot)

allonym:

i cannot understand why a person would think something is evil and yet contribute to it.

Really? you can't understand that? Because i know that lying is evil. I know that lusting is evil, I know hating is evil, and yet i contribute to those evils by sining.

Are you saying that implying that you don't sin, or that sin is not bad. Because you cannot say that you sin, and yet don't undersand why a person would contribute to something they think is evil.

Really? you can't understand that? Because i know that lying is evil. I know that lusting is evil, I know hating is evil, and yet i contribute to those evils by sining.

Are you saying that implying that you don't sin, or that sin is not bad. Because you cannot say that you sin, and yet don't undersand why a person would contribute to something they think is evil.

Nope, I cannot understand. If I know that lying is evil, then I will do my best to not lie. You on the other hand are PURPOSEFULLY engaging in something which would introduce what you believe is evil to others. You are not accidentally participating in something you feel is evil, you are purposefully doing that. This is not a case of you are trying to resist a sin and cannot help yourself. Not only have you decided to commit (what you believe is) a sin, you are also boldly broadcasting it to the world.

allonym:

Nope, I cannot understand. If I know that lying is evil, then I will do my best to not lie. You on the other hand are PURPOSEFULLY engaging in something which would introduce what you believe is evil to others. You are not accidentally participating in something you feel is evil, you are purposefully doing that. This is not a case of you are trying to resist a sin and cannot help yourself. Not only have you decided to commit (what you believe is) a sin, you are also boldly broadcasting it to the world.

Crap. You're right.

Harry Porter, I may say, may be a witch himself. His films clearly show that he encourages witchcraft to the highest levels.
I hate him though.

you hate a fictional character or the actor?

I hate both the character and the author.

have you watched the films?

Um.. yeah so all you people out there, saying that Magic, "witch craft," sorcery or what ever you choose to call it, is from the devil, are pretty crazy . yes we all know that there are some practices, like voo-doo or wicken rituals are assciated with the devil. But these kids/teens (harry potter and his friends) are not making circles with pentagrams, in them. There is no demon summoning, there is no drinking of blood from an animal, or sacrifices (untill you get to the 6th book but that is not Dumbledores fault that he has to do that). These teens are just simply learning to cast light in dark places, learning to levitate things, and stuff like that. You also cant say that the kid will grow up to be like gothic or wikkin, or want to go to a University to study witchcraft. You write a book about some kids or ppl who have any sorta of described "supernatural power" and kids will naturaly want to pretend that they have that "power" too, or that they will want that "power" too. kids naturaly look up to teens, or grownups, true it is not good to set an example for a little child to want to fight bad guys, or try to solve "mysteries" on their own, but look at the power rangers, they have super natural powers to fight "aliens" or bad minons, and in the prosses their big robot crushed buildings, and stuff. I dont know about you but everyone has watched the Power rangers as a kid, and did you want to go out, attacking things with reckless abandon?

J.K Rowlings books just show kids that having super powers is great, but you need to exercize care as well. Spiderman for example, in all the cartoons and movies, he ends up saving the day, but in the prosses destroys buildings. when you see kids pretending to be spider man, what do you see? Webslinging and playfighting, do you see destruction? no. when kids see like a movie about coragous knights, they want to be noble to and save ppl. you see them fighting with sticks, yes. but when you see kids swordfighting, they aim for the stick. you can hold a stick out, and have a "duel" with them, and all they swing at is the stick, because they never see ppl getting hit due to blocks.

Now we all know that there are dark wizards/witches. but in real life, there are naturaly evil ppl. dark wizards use their powers to terrorize, and for evil. they use it for persional gain through destroying others. the good wizards/witches use it for mutal benifit and for regular things. in the 4th HP movie, you see a pot washing itself. Is that the work of the Devil? there will allways be powerhungry ppl in the world, and there will allways be good ppl. they ballence each other out. neither can exist when the other dosent. there will allways be athority and those who challenge it, it is natural, and kids need to know this.

Basicly Hary Potter is a great book and is a great book for kids and adults alike. for kids it is a fantasy world, for adults it is an intresting peice of litature. for teens, it provides rollmodels.

p.s. emma watson=beautiful (emma watson for all you newbs, is the girl who plays Hermione Granger in the films)
and Alan Rickman=alsome-ness

i am 15. you may think i do not know anyting about the real world, or about parenting skills, but i know that youth should know what is right and what is easy, what is good, and what is evil. And i am ready to defend my stance.

Go J.K rowling!

both Harry AND Voldemort can do magic.

Harry is good, and Voldemort is evil.

This implies that magic can be good, in certain cercumstances.

and THAT  is false.

magic, or magick or however you spell it, is when someone is using power from the Devil.

it can never be good.

although the magic in the books and movies are not real.... they symbolize and give kids ideas about REAL magic.

when a kid waves a stick around yelling 'lumos' the kid is trying to do witch craft.

he is trying to do something that is evil.

even though he can't do it... he still is trying to.

Ha ha ha ha lets look at STARWARS. Jedi have supernatural powers much like Magic. there are also the Sith (bad jedis) they use the force for evil. now if magic is a power from the devil, and the force is almost exactly the same, are you saying that yoda, Obi-wan, luke are evil

Kids are not smart enough to know it's not real.

really? that is stupid, NEVER UNDERESTIMATE A CHILDS INTELECT!! but you may say "well santa isnt real" and my reply to that is they believe in santa because you tell them to, you are a parental figure, you are infallable to them, you say what is right and wrong. if you tell a 3 year old that Hittler was a great man, and you pound it into their head, they will grow up thinking that, and wont question it untill they grow upp more. they will grow up defending him saying "well he was only trying to help his contry that he loved, and anyway our government has scapegoats too." a child is capable of dicerning fact from crap, as long as you don't constantly tell them one side of an argument they will figure it out for themselfs.

God is something kids do not question because you tell them what to believe. eventually they will question there religion. if they do not, there is someting wrong with them.

I don't really know if there is any such thing as witchcraft.
Harry potter isn't about glamorising magic any more that superman glamorises jumping out of windows.

Harry potter is about friendship, growing up, relationships and all the other complexities of life. It deals with loads of feelings and emotions that children and adults deal with and have to deal whit in future. It teaches people that life is not black and white in a way that makes its readers more appreciative of other people, more understanding, and thus better people. I think they are a great set of books with so much positivity to offer any reader, and do not deserve to be spoken ill of.

Personally, i think JK. Rowling's writing is positively inspiring. I challenge anybody to read them and not feel better for it!
I am currently half way through the half blood prince... i am an AVID FAN

GO salako you got it man

i have read books 1,2,3,4,5, and 6. i have also seen the movies 1,2,3 &4.
i don't think it encourages anything. i just love the morals of the book. Sometimes, i think people should see passed the surface of things and try looking underneath!
life is full of GOOD and BAD things. AND we need to know what we are dealing with and most of all GOOD will always overcome evil on matter how is being written or perceived~!

I LOVE THE BOOK AND I ALWAYS WILL!

Go enchantra

please i want some one to try to contradict me. i want to be tried of being wrong. give me your best shot!

I've been compelled to watch some of his films and I've seen some of their adverts, they are really wierd.