ghazzal:
i undetstand that but according to islamic teachings, eveyone will be tried even the prophets core group. the prophet (saaw) is the only example for mankind with special guidiance. If he can tolerate this pple, what should we do......... beteween the shades of black nd white are some matters not clear, they should be avoided. cos only Allah knows it all. again just my sincere opinion.

@ghazzal you av said it all may Allah continue to increase you in wisdom. The angels that are with Allah are rebellious talkless of human.

Abdul0709: @ghazzal you av said it all may Allah continue to increase you in wisdom. [u]The angels that are with Allah are rebellious [/u]talkless of human.

Which "Angels" are you talking about? How on earth can you ever insinuate that certain Angels rebelled against God?

Note that Angels are not like human with "free-will". Allah's command is their wish; so how is it possible for someone with no freewill to rebel against any command?

Angels are created with intellect (aql).
Animals are created with desires.
Man is created with both intellect and desires coupled with "Free-will" (ikhtiyar).

Our "desires" pushed us to sin and rebel while the "intellect" warn us against it. Finally, we choose through our "free-will". If our "evil desires" supersede our "intellect", we are equivalent of animal. If our intellect supersede our desires while we choose to do good out of our free-will, we are like the angels even greater than them; then Paradise is promised.

AlBaqir:

Which "Angels" are you talking about? How on earth can you ever insinuate that certain Angels rebelled against God?

Note that Angels are not like human with "free-will". Allah's command is their wish; so how is it possible for someone with no freewill to rebel against any command?

Angels are created with intellect (aql).
Animals are created with desires.
Man is created with both intellect and desires coupled with "Free-will" (ikhtiyar).

Our "desires" pushed us to sin and rebel while the "intellect" warn us against it. Finally, we choose through our "free-will". If our "evil desires" supersede our "intellect", we are equivalent of animal. If our intellect supersede our desires while we choose to do good out of our free-will, we are like the angels even greater than them; then Paradise is promised.

if i may ask is iblis an angel or human?

Abdul0709: if i may ask is iblis an angel or human?

Iblis is neither an angel nor human. Iblis is Jinn.
Quran says:

"And behold, We said to the angels: 'Bow down to Adam' and they bowed down except Iblis: he refused and was among those who reject faith" ~Sura al-Baqara : 34

Here "Iblis" was counted among the "Angels".

Quran clarifies:
"Behold! We said to the Angels, 'Bow down to Adam': they bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the command of his Lord..." ~sura al-Kahf: 50

The word "Angel" is denoted with goodness, knowledge and uprightness. Iblis was counted among the angels in this sense until he crossed the line and became rejected.

In sura al-Baqara vs 102, the word ANGELS were used for "Harut and Marut" who were never Angel in the real sense but good men of knowledge, wisdom and power hence, the word "angels".

Bottomline "Satan" was never an angel but Jinn.

Allah knows best.

AlBaqir:

Iblis is neither an angel nor human. Iblis is Jinn.
Quran says:

"And behold, We said to the angels: 'Bow down to Adam' and they bowed down except Iblis: he refused and was among those who reject faith" ~Sura al-Baqara : 34

Here "Iblis" was counted among the "Angels".

Quran clarifies:
"Behold! We said to the Angels, 'Bow down to Adam': they bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns, and he broke the command of his Lord..." ~sura al-Kahf: 50

The word "Angel" is denoted with goodness, knowledge and uprightness. Iblis was counted among the angels in this sense until he crossed the line and became rejected.

In sura al-Baqara vs 102, the word ANGELS were used for "Harut and Marut" who were never Angel in the real sense but good men of knowledge, wisdom and power hence, the word "angels".

Bottomline "Satan" was never an angel but Jinn.

Allah knows best.

It's quite known to me too dat only Allah knows best,the God who know the seen and unseen. Hope you get what i was trying to pin point from the question in respect to our previous discussion.

Abdul0709: It's quite known to me too dat only Allah knows best,the God who know the seen and unseen. Hope you get what i was trying to pin point from the question in respect to our previous discussion.

Your point was "if angel closer to God can rebel, why not human in form of sahaba"! You used this analogy to belittle some of the grievous mistakes, evil-doing and apostacy of some sahaba.

Yes they were not angelic. They were human but whatever they did was out of their own desires and free-will. They have the golden opportunity of being in the company of the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household) yet many of them betrayed that respect and company to the extent that the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household) many times addressed them as documented by Imam Bukhari, Imam Muslim, Imam Ahmad et al:

"Many of you whom I recognized (in other version, 'who used to be in my company)will be grabbed by the neck at the pool (on the day of judgment) and I will say 'My sahaba! My sahaba! Where are you taking them to?' It will be said to me: 'To Hell'! 'You do not know what they innovated in your absence'. Then I will say 'away with you who innovate after me'"

If sons and wives of the prophets (prophet Nuh, Lut and Yaqub) can go astray and promised hell-fire, where's Allah's justice if the evil of certain sahaba are over-looked?

How can one ever merge the righteous and ever obedient among the sahaba with those who accused the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household) of madness and prevent him from writing his final will, on his death-bed while Allah has once warned them?
"O the believers! Do not raise your voice over that of the prophet as you do among yourselves [b]lest your good deeds become null and void why you pay no heed"

How can one ever reconcile with those 14 sahaba who planned to assassinate the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household) in Tabuk, only for their plan to failed. Even the holy prophet cursed them yet many are too 'generous' to say "peace on his sahaba ALTOGETHER'.

How on earth are those who never fled from the battle field, who used to stand their ground and protect the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household) and defend Islam, be equal in praise and reverence with those who used to flee from the battlefield or hide when battle is intense? "La yastawun"!

How can one ever befriend those among them who treated the household of the prophet (peace be on him and his household) whose love is made obligatory in the Quran, with hatred and injustice and finally massacred them?

Peace be on the prophet and his household and the pious among his companions.

AlBaqir:

Your point was "if angel closer to God can rebel, why not human in form of sahaba"! You used this analogy to belittle some of the grievous mistakes, evil-doing and apostacy of some sahaba.

Yes they were not angelic. They were human but whatever they did was out of their own desires and free-will. They have the golden opportunity of being in the company of the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household) yet many of them betrayed that respect and company to the extent that the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household) many times addressed them as documented by Imam Bukhari, Imam Muslim, Imam Ahmad et al:

"Many of you whom I recognized (in other version, 'who used to be in my company)will be grabbed by the neck at the pool (on the day of judgment) and I will say 'My sahaba! My sahaba! Where are you taking them to?' It will be said to me: 'To Hell'! 'You do not know what they innovated in your absence'. Then I will say 'away with you who innovate after me'"

If sons and wives of the prophets (prophet Nuh, Lut and Yaqub) can go astray and promised hell-fire, where's Allah's justice if the evil of certain sahaba are over-looked?

How can one ever merge the righteous and ever obedient among the sahaba with those who accused the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household) of madness and prevent him from writing his final will, on his death-bed while Allah has once warned them?
"O the believers! Do not raise your voice over that of the prophet as you do among yourselves [b]lest your good deeds become null and void why you pay no heed"

How can one ever reconcile with those 14 sahaba who planned to assassinate the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household) in Tabuk, only for their plan to failed. Even the holy prophet cursed them yet many are too 'generous' to say "peace on his sahaba ALTOGETHER'.

How on earth are those who never fled from the battle field, who used to stand their ground and protect the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household) and defend Islam, be equal in praise and reverence with those who used to flee from the battlefield or hide when battle is intense? "La yastawun"!

How can one ever befriend those among them who treated the household of the prophet (peace be on him and his household) whose love is made obligatory in the Quran, with hatred and injustice and finally massacred them?

Peace be on the prophet and his household and the pious among his companions.

@Al Baqir on which side are you? Cos am a muslim and from your statements about human been differ from angel,we are have free-will and also given wisdom coupled with intellect i believed Allah's words are not for nothing "form no sects and split up your religion" on this basis i stand. Let's all be guided by what bind us which is are the five pillars and six articles of faith.

This thread has gone on to 6 pages. Yet it is basically a waste of time
Shias are always giving false impression of their beliefs. See the 1st video below where ALL Sunnis are regarded as bastards. We know that Shias don’t allow their daughters to marry Sunnis.
Arguing with Shia is tedious because they lie about nearly everything. They say one thing to deceive Sunnis and in reality have deep hatred for us
Taqiyya is presented as lying to save one’s life. But is that Ayatollah’s life (video 1) in danger? No
Shias argue that lying to save one’s life is allowed
Yes – Sunnis will even eat pork if there is nothing else to keep them alive
However Sunnis don’t argue that eating pork is 90% of their religion. Shias actually say lying-taqiyya- is 90% of their religion. Big difference!
Shias have too much similarities with Christians. A Sunni may not mention the names of Abu Bakr, Umar (RAA) etc for months. Shias MUST mention the name of Ali (RA) everyday.
And they still claim Sunnis worship Abu Bakr and Umar (RAA)!
Christians pray to Jesus; Shias pray to their Imams
Let no one tell me about intercession. Shias pray to and ask their Imams directly – Yasser Habib has confirmed it, lots of Shias who make the special two rakats to Fatima – have confirmed it.
Anyone who does not accept Jesus as his saviour is doomed, according to Christians
Shias insist that anyone who does not belief in Wilaya of Ali (RA) will not even have his salat answered
They may be notionally regarded as Muslims in this world but will enter hellfire in the hereafter
So Shias say EVERY Sunni will enter hellfire

This is their Du'a Saname Quraysh for cursing

In it, they curse two wives of the Prophet of Allah (SAW) and their parents
Shias beliefs in relation to the Prophet (SAW)
He (SAW) failed in marriage because he (SAW) had disreputable wives (Aisha and Hafsah RAA)
He (SAW) failed in relationship as he (SAW) had the most disreputable inlaws (Abu Bakr and Umar RAA)
He (SAW) failed In religious leadership as no other religious leader ever had a worse apostasy level as according to the Shias 99+% of the followers of the Prophet (SAW) abandoned Islam as soon as the Prophet (SAW) died

The videos below show that Shias lie a lot
But WE KNOW why Shias are Wrong: Shias can NEVER prove their fundamental concept of Imamate from the Qur’an
It is impossible!
But they have made the strange and shirk-based concept of Imamate the cornerstone of their sect
They claim that Imams control the atoms on earth, know what will happen I the future, are created by Allah then they now create. It is mostly full of blasphemy. They claim that the 12th Imam is alive somewhere but we know that he has not been born
But let us stop the peripheral distractions

Just prove IMAMATE from the Qur'an.

Videos
If you cannot afford to watch all, make SURE you watch 1, 2, 3 and 6

Taqiyya ON/OFF – How to Deceive Sunnis (1)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwnFxWl5YzM
The 2-FACES of every Shia are evident here (2)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Bsm59tgVQ

Using Taqiyyah to Deceive Sunnis (3)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=preRawEG5Ic

Shia lies against Ibn Taymiyyah (4)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIlPTDJpMN0

1 question, 4 different answers (5)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1307XKkWvHo

Shiism is a creation of Jews (6 and 7)
1st video is short – 2+ minutes; second is 12mins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTUACAqZ5k8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUKtIVVeVSc

Shia Imam (Mahdi) has not been born (

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl0yvSQy_jw&list=UU2Zh30AueGr3ZgcsZYMMuXw

Abdul0709: @Al Baqir on which side are you?

On the side of truth irrespective of the consequence.
"And mix not the Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth while you know." ~Quran 2: 42

Abdul0709:
Cos am a muslim and from your statements about human been differ from angel,we are have free-will and also given wisdom coupled with intellect i believed Allah's words are not for nothing "form no sects and split up your religion" on this basis i stand. Let's all be guided by what bind us which is are the five pillars and six articles of faith.

@underlined, That's the command from the Lord of the worlds through the tongue of His prophet, Muhammad (peace be on him and his household), 1400 years ago. Alas! The prophet was still on his death-bed when his companions split themselves into sects. Whatever you see today as per different sects is the outcome of the foundation of sectarianism laid by the sahaba, which later led to great turmoil and bloodshed.

@bold, we MIGHT be united apparently by those acts and more but the real unification is in the last statements of the holy prophet while on his death-bed:
"Bring for me pen and paper so I can write for you documents which if you adhere to, you will NEVER go astray"

Instead some companions however accused him of raving madness and prevented him from writing his final will; hence, Abdullah ibn Abbas (ra) says:
"The calamity and misfortune of Muslims started that day when the prophet was prevented from writing what will prevent us from straying"

Allah does not support liars and will not change the cause of man till he change it himself.

"Whatever tragedies and disasters that befell the Muslim world during the last fourteen centuries have been mainly due to its estrangement from the Thaqalayn; the two-fold legacy of the Prophet (S) in the form of the Qur'an and the Ahlul Bayt (A)." ~Imam Khomeini (R)

BetaThings: This thread has gone on to 6 pages. Yet it is basically a waste of time
Shias are always giving false impression of their beliefs. See the 1st video below where ALL Sunnis are regarded as bastards. We know that Shias don’t allow their daughters to marry Sunnis.
Arguing with Shia is tedious because they lie about nearly everything. They say one thing to deceive Sunnis and in reality have deep hatred for us
Taqiyya is presented as lying to save one’s life. But is that Ayatollah’s life (video 1) in danger? No
Shias argue that lying to save one’s life is allowed
Yes – Sunnis will even eat pork if there is nothing else to keep them alive
However Sunnis don’t argue that eating pork is 90% of their religion. Shias actually say lying-taqiyya- is 90% of their religion. Big difference!
Shias have too much similarities with Christians. A Sunni may not mention the names of Abu Bakr, Umar (RAA) etc for months. Shias MUST mention the name of Ali (RA) everyday.
And they still claim Sunnis worship Abu Bakr and Umar (RAA)!
Christians pray to Jesus; Shias pray to their Imams
Let no one tell me about intercession. Shias pray to and ask their Imams directly – Yasser Habib has confirmed it, lots of Shias who make the special two rakats to Fatima – have confirmed it.
Anyone who does not accept Jesus as his saviour is doomed, according to Christians
Shias insist that anyone who does not belief in Wilaya of Ali (RA) will not even have his salat answered
They may be notionally regarded as Muslims in this world but will enter hellfire in the hereafter
So Shias say EVERY Sunni will enter hellfire

This is their Du'a Saname Quraysh for cursing

In it, they curse two wives of the Prophet of Allah (SAW) and their parents
Shias beliefs in relation to the Prophet (SAW)
He (SAW) failed in marriage because he (SAW) had disreputable wives (Aisha and Hafsah RAA)
He (SAW) failed in relationship as he (SAW) had the most disreputable inlaws (Abu Bakr and Umar RAA)
He (SAW) failed In religious leadership as no other religious leader ever had a worse apostasy level as according to the Shias 99+% of the followers of the Prophet (SAW) abandoned Islam as soon as the Prophet (SAW) died

The videos below show that Shias lie a lot
But WE KNOW why Shias are Wrong: Shias can NEVER prove their fundamental concept of Imamate from the Qur’an
It is impossible!
But they have made the strange and shirk-based concept of Imamate the cornerstone of their sect
They claim that Imams control the atoms on earth, know what will happen I the future, are created by Allah then they now create. It is mostly full of blasphemy. They claim that the 12th Imam is alive somewhere but we know that he has not been born
But let us stop the peripheral distractions

Just prove IMAMATE from the Qur'an.

Videos
If you cannot afford to watch all, make SURE you watch 1, 2, 3 and 6

Taqiyya ON/OFF – How to Deceive Sunnis (1)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwnFxWl5YzM
The 2-FACES of every Shia are evident here (2)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Bsm59tgVQ

Using Taqiyyah to Deceive Sunnis (3)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=preRawEG5Ic

Shia lies against Ibn Taymiyyah (4)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIlPTDJpMN0

1 question, 4 different answers (5)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1307XKkWvHo

Shiism is a creation of Jews (6 and 7)
1st video is short – 2+ minutes; second is 12mins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTUACAqZ5k8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUKtIVVeVSc

Shia Imam (Mahdi) has not been born (

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl0yvSQy_jw&list=UU2Zh30AueGr3ZgcsZYMMuXw

Do you have more of these propagandas video? Please post more. When you are done, you will be left with no other choice than quit. Dialogue with presentation of truth? You have never engage in ONE before. Sometimes I wonder how hatred has blind and block your faculty of reasoning. Unfortunately, you've forgot people are not stupid anymore especially in this advanced-research oriented world.

Quran 16:125: "Call onto the way of your Lord with WISDOM and GOOD MANNERS and argue with them in a best ways. Lo! Your Lord knows best he who has astray from His path and He knows who are rightly guided"

BetaThings:
But WE KNOW why Shias are Wrong: Shias can NEVER prove their fundamental concept of Imamate from the Qur’an
It is impossible!
But they have made the strange and shirk-based concept of Imamate the cornerstone of their sect
They claim that Imams control the atoms on earth, know what will happen I the future, are created by Allah then they now create. It is mostly full of blasphemy. They claim that the 12th Imam is alive somewhere but we know that he has not been born
But let us stop the peripheral distractions

Just prove IMAMATE from the Qur'an.

"And when Ibrahim was tried by his Lord with some statements, and he fulfilled them, He said, 'I will appoint you an IMAM of mankind.' He (Ibrahim) asked, 'And of my offspring?'. He (Allah) replied, 'My Covenant shall not reach the wrongdoers"
~Quran 2:124

Ibn Kathir comments:

"...When he fulfilled the huge obligations which his Lord commanded him with, he appointed him the Imam of mankind, whom they must follow, and whose guidance they must copy. He requested Allah that this Imamah be connected with his lineage, and be uninterrupted within his offspring, and be perpetual forever among his offspring. So, what he asked WAS GRANTED, and he was granted full authority of Imamah, and the wrong-doers were excluded from its reach and it was made exclusive to the righteous scholars among his offspring."
~Abu al-Fida Ismail ibn Kathir, 'Qisas al-Anbiya', vol. 1 p. 232; 'al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah', vol. 1 p. 191.

Sunni Imam, Abu Ya'la (d. 307H) records:

...Anas reported: "The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said: 'The Imams are from Quraysh"
~Abu Ya'la Ahmad b. Ali b. Muthana al-Mawsili al-Tamimi, 'Musnad vol. 6 p. 321

The annotator (of the Musnad), Dr. Husayn Salim Asad says:
"Its chain is sahih."

Al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (d. 852H) declares:
"The hadith 'The Imams are from Quraysh' is recorded by al-Nasai from Anas, and al-Tabarani narrated it in al-Du'a, and al-Bazzar and al-Bayhaqi also narrated it, through several chains, from Anas. [b]I say: I gathered its chains in a separate volume from forty sahabah"

~Ibn Hajar, 'Talkhis al-Habir, vol. 4 p. 116 #1730.

NB: In sha Allah when you need MORE explicit verses of the Quran on the IMAMAH with your door step evidences, you shall be schooled.

AlBaqir: Do you have more of these propagandas video? Please post more. When you are done, you will be left with no other choice than quit. Dialogue with presentation of truth? You have never engage in ONE before. Sometimes I wonder how hatred has blind and block your faculty of reasoning. Unfortunately, you've forgot people are not stupid anymore especially in this advanced-research oriented world.

Address the issues
You guys just like to deceive
If your people did not say that, disprove it
I thank Allah that people can do research
Hatred? You should go back to prior posts. I have had cause to defend Iran before when the occassion demanded it.
But I have never seen you do same for a sunni country
If you ever did, show me

AlBaqir: Quran 16:125: "Call onto the way of your Lord with WISDOM and GOOD MANNERS and argue with them in a best wayhe s. Lo! Your Lord knows best he who has astray from His path and He knows who are rightly guided"

When a Shia scholar says something that you like and you post it, it is wisdom and good manners
When the same scholar says something that throws up a defect in Shiism and I post it ACCURATELY, it is propaganda
As for good manners, if it is to abuse, call people names, open threads to find faults, then YOU have it
If it means not abusing people but just focusing on issues, I have it
We can go back to previous posts to prove my claim
You want to take up that challenge?

BetaThings:
Address the issues
You guys just like to deceive
If your people did not say that, disprove it
I thank Allah that people can do research
Hatred? You should go back to prior posts. I have had cause to defend Iran before when the occassion demanded it.
But I have never seen you do same for a sunni country
If you ever did, show me

What concern this thread with "defending Iran" or "defending Sunni countries"? Political differences between countries is far different from Islamic Theological differences no matter how people hide behind religious differences to fight their political differences.

Enough of your bull-shit propaganda videos. Prove your points rather than posting doctored video or videos of 2-3minutes quoting people out of context.
If you want to engage in Religious-Theological dialogue as per sunni and shia, you are welcome with the verse of Allah:

"Call unto the way of your Lord with wisdom and good manners and argue with them in the best manners..."

BetaThings:
When a Shia scholar says something that you like and you post it, it is wisdom and good manners
When the same scholar says something that throws up a defect in Shiism [s]and I post it ACCURATELY, it is propaganda[/s]
As for good manners, if it is to abuse, call people names, open threads to find faults, then YOU have it
If it means not abusing people but just focusing on issues, I have it
We can go back to previous posts to prove my claim
You want to take up that challenge?

I believe we've started! Your first attack is: "Shi'a should prove the concept of Imamah in the Qur'an".
I have given you a reply and the onus is on you to counter.

Pls I am not interested in pseudo-videos of yours. Disprove shi'a beliefs using Qur'an and sahih hadith from shi'a source. Be sure in sha Allah I will 100% do the same for you using Qur'an, your tafsir and collections of hadith from your sahih and Musnad

Lastly, stop derailing threads. This thread is on the Shi'a position to the companions of the prophet (peace be on him and his household). Should you want to discuss off the topic, a thread has already been designed for that:
www.nairaland.com/1794405/islam-muslims-side-talk-station

Salam.

AlBaqir:

On the side of truth irrespective of the consequence.
"And mix not the Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth while you know." ~Quran 2: 42



@underlined, That's the command from the Lord of the worlds through the tongue of His prophet, Muhammad (peace be on him and his household), 1400 years ago. Alas! The prophet was still on his death-bed when his companions split themselves into sects. Whatever you see today as per different sects is the outcome of the foundation of sectarianism laid by the sahaba, which later led to great turmoil and bloodshed.

@bold, we MIGHT be united apparently by those acts and more but the real unification is in the last statements of the holy prophet while on his death-bed:
"Bring for me pen and paper so I can write for you documents which if you adhere to, you will NEVER go astray"

Instead some companions however accused him of raving madness and prevented him from writing his final will; hence, Abdullah ibn Abbas (ra) says:
"The calamity and misfortune of Muslims started that day when the prophet was prevented from writing what will prevent us from straying"

Allah does not support liars and will not change the cause of man till he change it himself.

"Whatever tragedies and disasters that befell the Muslim world during the last fourteen centuries have been mainly due to its estrangement from the Thaqalayn; the two-fold legacy of the Prophet (S) in the form of the Qur'an and the Ahlul Bayt (A)." ~Imam Khomeini (R)

I quite understand your side now,shia or sunni i dont think there is any that will av solat backing the qibla. Allah has nothing to do wit sects,colours,arabs,americans,africans,languages or which ever criteria that can differentiate us except taqwa.

Abdul0709: I quite understand your side now,shia or sunni i dont think there is any that will av solat backing the qibla.

Indeed! Brother Those are words of truth if you are awake. But if I may ask: How do you perform your ablution and offer your salat? You wipe your whole head, wipe your ears and wash your feet? That's being Sunni! Have you ever consider there's no salat without ablution?

What about Salat? Fold your arms, No Bismillah before Fatiha or any sura afterward! Etc. That's being Sunni.

It is easier to declare with tongue: 'I am no Sunni or Shi'a' but ain't no escape in practice from usul deen to Furu'u deen. You simply imbibe and follow a particular creed without your knowing.

Abdul0709:
Allah has nothing to do with sects, colours, arabs, americans,africans,languages or which ever criteria that can differentiate us except taqwa.

"O you who believe! Do not put (yourselves) forward before Allah and His Messenger (SAW), and fear Allah. Verily! Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing." ~sura Hujurat vs 1

Indeed Taqwa is the key. It is the real deal. What is the meaning of Taqwa when you cannot abide by the command of the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household)? What is the meaning of Taqwa when you are forward before the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household)?

The prophet (peace be on him and his household) on his death-bed asked for pen and paper to write documents that will protect this community from going astray.

They did not only accused him (peace be on him and his household) of raving madness and prevented him of writing, they also have audacity to forward before him saying: "the book of God (Qur'an) is enough for us".

The situation is the same today. While the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household) declares:

"I am leaving behind over you TWO WEIGHTY THINGS so long you adhere to them, you will NEVER go astray; the Book of Allah - a rope stretching between the heaven and the earth - and my offspring, my Ahl al-Bayt. Verily, both shall never separate from each other until they meet me at the Lake-Fount"
~Muslim, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, Abu Dawud, Ahmad Ibn Hanbali, Abu Ya'la, Tabarani, Hakim, Suyuti et al.

"I am leaving behind over you TWO KHALIFAHS; the Book of Allah - a rope stretching between the heaven and the earth - and my offspring, my Ahl al-Bayt. Verily, both shall never separate from each other until they meet me at the Lake-Fount"
~Ahmad, Tabarani, al-Albanni

Your forwardness before the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household) is the claim of "he left Quran and Sunnah". Alas! It is this "adulterated" sunnah that continuously creating discord among muslims.

So tell me where's the Taqwa before Allah

AlBaqir:

Indeed! Brother Those are words of truth if you are awake. But if I may ask: How do you perform your ablution and offer your salat? You wipe your whole head, wipe your ears and wash your feet? That's being Sunni! Have you ever consider there's no salat without ablution?

What about Salat? Fold your arms, No Bismillah before Fatiha or any sura afterward! Etc. That's being Sunni.

It is easier to declare with tongue: 'I am no Sunni or Shi'a' but ain't no escape in practice from usul deen to Furu'u deen. You simply imbibe and follow a particular creed without your knowing.



"O you who believe! Do not put (yourselves) forward before Allah and His Messenger (SAW), and fear Allah. Verily! Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing." ~sura Hujurat vs 1

Indeed Taqwa is the key. It is the real deal. What is the meaning of Taqwa when you cannot abide by the command of the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household)? What is the meaning of Taqwa when you are forward before the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household)?

The prophet (peace be on him and his household) on his death-bed asked for pen and paper to write documents that will protect this community from going astray.

They did not only accused him (peace be on him and his household) of raving madness and prevented him of writing, they also have audacity to forward before him saying: "the book of God (Qur'an) is enough for us".

The situation is the same today. While the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household) declares:

"I am leaving behind over you TWO WEIGHTY THINGS so long you adhere to them, you will NEVER go astray; the Book of Allah - a rope stretching between the heaven and the earth - and my offspring, my Ahl al-Bayt. Verily, both shall never separate from each other until they meet me at the Lake-Fount"
~Muslim, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, Abu Dawud, Ahmad Ibn Hanbali, Abu Ya'la, Tabarani, Hakim, Suyuti et al.

"I am leaving behind over you TWO KHALIFAHS; the Book of Allah - a rope stretching between the heaven and the earth - and my offspring, my Ahl al-Bayt. Verily, both shall never separate from each other until they meet me at the Lake-Fount"
~Ahmad, Tabarani, al-Albanni

Your forwardness before the holy prophet (peace be on him and his household) is the claim of "he left Quran and Sunnah". Alas! It is this "adulterated" sunnah that continuously creating discord among muslims.

So tell me where's the Taqwa before Allah

So all these your quotes and statements are the definition of taqwa, hmmmm i could see what you are agitating for now. And about your aforemention creed only Allah knows what is reveal and conceal,

AlBaqir: what concern this thread with "defending Iran" or "defending Sunni countries"? Political differences between countries is far different from Islamic Theological differences no matter how people hide behind religious differences to fight their political differences.

To start with, should we list all the posts you have created to denigrate Saudi Arabia?
Were those done in pursuit of theological illumination or political pillorying?

I raised issues - you said I was blinded by hate, I called you out by pointing to the history of your posts filled with intolerance and hate
You are now turning your inability to defend your unenviable history of hateful posts to an attack on me
I mentioned the two countries because you have never seen any good in Saudi Arabia while eulogising Iran to high heavens
So what is blind hate if not that
I DARE you to prove your accusations against me

AlBaqir: Enough of your bull-shit propaganda videos. Prove your points rather than posting doctored video or videos of 2-3minutes quoting people out of context.

Some of your shia colleagues posted videos in pursuit of your misguided theology
When you did it was not bullshit propaganda
I reckon that was dawah
I countered with videos to shed light on the heretical beliefs of your sect, you suddenly realise videos are not so cool afterall
You should have a standard yardstick - it is a blight on your religion when you continue to twist and turn away from issues you bring up
Make a statement, stand by it and refute what is attributed to

AlBaqir: If you want to engage in Religious-Theological dialogue as per sunni and shia, you are welcome with the verse of Allah:

"Call unto the way of your Lord with wisdom and good manners and argue with them in the best manners..."

Shias should be the last people talking about beautiful speech and good manners
You abuse, curse, suspect, assume the worst of people
Do you want me to quote your posts to show the whole world how you have exemplified the antithesis of what you espouse of speech and manners?

AlBaqir: I believe we've started! Your first attack is: "Shi'a should prove the concept of Imamah in the Qur'an".
I have given you a reply and the onus is on you to counter.

You will get your answers, Insha Allah
I actually thought you would give me all the points from the Qur'an so that we can refute them once and for all

AlBaqir:
Pls I am not interested in pseudo-videos of yours. Disprove shi'a beliefs using Qur'an and sahih hadith from shi'a source. Be sure in sha Allah I will 100% do the same for you using Qur'an, your tafsir and collections of hadith from your sahih and Musnad

If you can post videos, please allow others to do so and let objective readers judge

AlBaqir: Lastly, stop derailing threads. This thread is on the Shi'a position to the companions of the prophet (peace be on him and his household). Should you want to discuss off the topic, a thread has already been designed for that:
www.nairaland.com/1794405/islam-muslims-side-talk-station

I actually believe that there is no point debating those side issues
The core of our theological differences is the mysterious concept of imamate

BetaThings:
To start with, should we list all the posts you have created to denigrate Saudi Arabia?
Were those done in pursuit of theological illumination or political pillorying?

I raised issues - you said I was blinded by hate, I called you out by pointing to the history of your posts filled with intolerance and hate
You are now turning your inability to defend your unenviable history of hateful posts to an attack on me
I mentioned the two countries because you have never seen any good in Saudi Arabia while eulogising Iran to high heavens
So what is blind hate if not that
I DARE you to prove your accusations against me


Some of your shia colleagues posted videos in pursuit of your misguided theology
When you did it was not bullshit propaganda
I reckon that was dawah
I countered with videos to shed light on the heretical beliefs of your sect, you suddenly realise videos are not so cool afterall
You should have a standard yardstick - it is a blight on your religion when you continue to twist and turn away from issues you bring up
Make a statement, stand by it and refute what is attributed to


Shias should be the last people talking about beautiful speech and good manners
You abuse, curse, suspect, assume the worst of people
Do you want me to quote your posts to show the whole world how you have exemplified the antithesis of what you espouse of speech and manners?

You can add all that ^to the list of your regrets. This thread is all about Shi'a position on the sahaba. You digress to the "Concept of Imamah" and I took up the challenge.

BetaThings:

You will get your answers, Insha Allah
I actually thought you would give me all the points from the Qur'an so that we can refute them once and for all



I actually believe that there is no point debating those side issues
The core of our theological differences is the mysterious concept of imamate

I await your reply man. Please am not interested in your 2-3min propaganda pseudo-videos. Likewise linking me to nonsense wahabi websites. Kindly take my point one by one and refute.

Thanks. Earnestly looking forward for that reply "in kuntum sadiqqin".