A controversy is brewing over three reputable Christian organizations, which are based in North America, whose efforts have ousted the words "Father" and "Son" from new Bibles. Wycliffe Bible Translators, Summer Institute of Linguistics (SIL) and Frontiers are under fire[b] for "producing Bibles that remove "Father," "Son" and "Son of God" because these terms are offensive to Muslims."[/b]

Concerned Christian missionaries, Bible translators, pastors, and national church leaders have come together with a public petition to stop these organizations. They claim a public petition is their last recourse because meetings with these organizations' leaders, staff resignations over this issue and criticism and appeals from native national Christians concerned about the translations "have failed to persuade these agencies to retain "Father" and "Son" in the text of all their translations."
Biblical Missiology, a ministry of Boulder, Colorado-based Horizon International, is sponsoring the petition.

The main issues of this controversy surround new Arabic and Turkish translations. Here are three examples native speakers give:
First, Wycliffe and SIL have produced Stories of the Prophets, an Arabic Bible that uses an Arabic equivalent of "Lord" instead of "Father" and "Messiah" instead of "Son."

Second, Frontiers and SIL have produced Meaning of the Gospel of Christ , an Arabic translation which [b]removes "Father" in reference to God and replaces it with "Allah,"[/b] and removes or redefines "Son." For example, the verse which Christians use to justify going all over the world to make disciples, thus fulfilling the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19) reads, "Cleanse them by water in the name of Allah, his Messiahand his Holy Spirit" instead of "baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Rev. Bassam Madany, an Arab American who runs Middle East Resources, terms these organization's efforts as "a western imperialistic attempt that's inspired by cultural anthropology, and not by biblical theology."

Third, Frontiers and SIL have produced a new Turkish translation of the Gospel of Matthew that uses Turkish equivalents of "guardian" for "Father" and "representative" or "proxy" for "Son." To Turkish church leader Rev. Fikret Böcek, "This translation is 'an all-American idea' with absolutely no respect for the 'sacredness' of Scripture, or even of the growing Turkish church."

SIL has issued a public response stating "all personnel subscribe to a statement of faith which affirms the Trinity, Christ's deity, and the inspiration of Scripture." However, in the same statement, which is similar to Wycliffe's, it claims "word-for-word translation of these titles would communicate an incorrect meaning (i.e. that God had physical, intimate relationships with Mary) [sic]," thus justifying substituting "Father" and "Son" in new translations. Calls and emails to Wycliffe and SIL to clarify their positions were not returned. Frontiers responded to calls with articles that critics have already dismissed as skirting omissions of "Father" and "Son" in new Bible translations.

http://news.yahoo.com/father-son-ousted-trinity-bible-translations-003300519.html

If this is true, for the parties they are trying not to offend, anything short of Islam -- of professing that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is his messenger -- would be "offensive." This is not making Christianity more palatable. It is de-Christianizing it. It is manufacturing yet another Christian heresy.

Indeed, for many denominations, the validity of baptism depends on the words used: "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." No euphemisms, no nicknames: for example, trial balloons aiming to portray a more gender-neutral God have already been burst: the use of "Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier" in baptism has been rejected by the Catholic Church, if not others.

Those who truly believe they are winning souls for Christ would not risk the validity of baptism, and those who are genuinely convinced that they possess the truth will not apologize or worry it is offensive.

As a technical matter, one wonders how the translators handle the words: "Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son" (1 John 2:22). And "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 10:33).

One last bit of holy writ: "You might as well fall flat on your face as lean over too far backward." - James Thurber

Clearly, they fail to appreciate the far-reaching ramifications that Christians not only may dare, but are commanded to call on the Creator of the Universe as "Father." That fundamentally re-wires one's relationship with God and describes a unique intimacy and bond of love that ought not be squandered to score short-term points.

The point about intimate connotations is baloney. Many of these countries have, or once had indigenous Christian populations with scriptures in indigenous languages where this was not a problem. If they're coming up with something untoward, they need better translators.

frosbel:

A controversy is brewing over three reputable Christian organizations, which are based in North America, whose efforts have ousted the words "Father" and "Son" from new Bibles. Wycliffe Bible Translators, Summer Institute of Linguistics (SIL) and Frontiers are under fire[b] for "producing Bibles that remove "Father," "Son" and "Son of God" because these terms are offensive to Muslims."[/b]

Concerned Christian missionaries, Bible translators, pastors, and national church leaders have come together with a public petition to stop these organizations. They claim a public petition is their last recourse because meetings with these organizations' leaders, staff resignations over this issue and criticism and appeals from native national Christians concerned about the translations "have failed to persuade these agencies to retain "Father" and "Son" in the text of all their translations."
Biblical Missiology, a ministry of Boulder, Colorado-based Horizon International, is sponsoring the petition.

The main issues of this controversy surround new Arabic and Turkish translations. Here are three examples native speakers give:
First, Wycliffe and SIL have produced Stories of the Prophets, an Arabic Bible that uses an Arabic equivalent of "Lord" instead of "Father" and "Messiah" instead of "Son."

Second, Frontiers and SIL have produced Meaning of the Gospel of Christ , an Arabic translation which [b]removes "Father" in reference to God and replaces it with "Allah,"[/b] and removes or redefines "Son." For example, the verse which Christians use to justify going all over the world to make disciples, thus fulfilling the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19) reads, "Cleanse them by water in the name of Allah, his Messiahand his Holy Spirit" instead of "baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Rev. Bassam Madany, an Arab American who runs Middle East Resources, terms these organization's efforts as "a western imperialistic attempt that's inspired by cultural anthropology, and not by biblical theology."

Third, Frontiers and SIL have produced a new Turkish translation of the Gospel of Matthew that uses Turkish equivalents of "guardian" for "Father" and "representative" or "proxy" for "Son." To Turkish church leader Rev. Fikret Böcek, "This translation is 'an all-American idea' with absolutely no respect for the 'sacredness' of Scripture, or even of the growing Turkish church."

SIL has issued a public response stating "all personnel subscribe to a statement of faith which affirms the Trinity, Christ's deity, and the inspiration of Scripture." However, in the same statement, which is similar to Wycliffe's, it claims "word-for-word translation of these titles would communicate an incorrect meaning (i.e. that God had physical, intimate relationships with Mary) [sic]," thus justifying substituting "Father" and "Son" in new translations. Calls and emails to Wycliffe and SIL to clarify their positions were not returned. Frontiers responded to calls with articles that critics have already dismissed as skirting omissions of "Father" and "Son" in new Bible translations.

http://news.yahoo.com/father-son-ousted-trinity-bible-translations-003300519.html

frosbel:

If this is true, for the parties they are trying not to offend, anything short of Islam -- of professing that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is his messenger -- would be "offensive." This is not making Christianity more palatable. It is de-Christianizing it. It is manufacturing yet another Christian heresy.

Indeed, for many denominations, the validity of baptism depends on the words used: "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." No euphemisms, no nicknames: for example, trial balloons aiming to portray a more gender-neutral God have already been burst: the use of "Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctifier" in baptism has been rejected by the Catholic Church, if not others.

Those who truly believe they are winning souls for Christ would not risk the validity of baptism, and those who are genuinely convinced that they possess the truth will not apologize or worry it is offensive.

As a technical matter, one wonders how the translators handle the words: "Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son" (1 John 2:22). And "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 10:33).

One last bit of holy writ: "You might as well fall flat on your face as lean over too far backward." - James Thurber

Clearly, they fail to appreciate the far-reaching ramifications that Christians not only may dare, but are commanded to call on the Creator of the Universe as "Father." That fundamentally re-wires one's relationship with God and describes a unique intimacy and bond of love that ought not be squandered to score short-term points.

The point about intimate connotations is baloney. Many of these countries have, or once had indigenous Christian populations with scriptures in indigenous languages where this was not a problem. If they're coming up with something untoward, they need better translators.

this is clear evidence that christians do not have a religion and do not fear God Almighty.they do anything to add followers who will identify themselves as "christians".they keep changing their beliefs and bible.in fact christians are making christianity more of an antagonist religion that has it fundamental to oppose and provoke others than to teach what they believe.

so "frosbel" do believe the new set of bibles not mention the name of your "father" and his "son",are corrupted from a christian perspective? yes or not?

it is not like if they remove or leave those words,christianity has become acceptable overnight.or muslims would start embracing the bibles.there is alot of correction to christians that they need to learn and show will and interest to change.

"Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son" (1 John 2:22)

And "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 10:33).

Qur'an 3:45-51

"Behold! the angels said "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ (Maseeh) Jesus the son of Mary held in honor in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah."He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity and he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."She said: "O my Lord! how shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth; when He hath decreed a plan He but saith to it 'Be' and it is!"And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom the Law and the Gospel."And (appoint him) an Apostle to the Children of Israel (with this message): I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I make for you out of clay as it were the figure of a bird and breathe into it and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave; and I heal those born blind and the lepers and I quicken the dead by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe."(I have come to you) to attest the Law which was before me and to make lawful to you part of what was (before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah and obey me."It is Allah who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a way that is straight."

LagosShia:




this is clear evidence that christians do not have a religion and do not fear God Almighty.they do anything to add followers who will identify themselves as "christians".they keep changing their beliefs and bible.in fact christians are making christianity more of an antagonist religion that has it fundamental to oppose and provoke others than to teach what they believe.

I am surprised at your analytical skills 

Surely you do realise this is a publishing house out of many thousands and that the replacements were out of 'fear' of offending Turkish and Arabic governments.

The purpose of this article is really to point out the increasing demands by Muslim fanatics for societal conformance at the expense of truth.

I am quite confident that these bibles will be disregarded by true believers, but then again we already have millions of Arabic and Turksih bibles with the correct translation, so one publishing house going slightly off the rails is not a huge threat.

so "frosbel" do believe the new set of bibles not mention the name of your "father" and his "son",are corrupted from a christian perspective? yes or not?

Bibles translated from the original manuscripts all contain Father and Son.

it is not like if they remove or leave those words,christianity has become acceptable overnight.or muslims would start embracing the bibles.there is alot of correction to christians that they need to learn and show will and interest to change.

Correction 

There is no correction to be made to accurate bibles, only a 'fight' to make sure that new translations by certain publishing houses are not compromising with tyranical states , in a bid to change certain key words.

Thats the crux of the matter here.

LagosShia:

"Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son" (1 John 2:22)

And "But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 10:33).

Qur'an 3:45-51    

"Behold! the angels said "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ (Maseeh) Jesus the son of Mary held in honor in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah."He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity and he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."She said: "O my Lord! how shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth; when He hath decreed a plan He but saith to it 'Be' and it is!"And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom the Law and the Gospel."

What gospel was ALLAH going to teach Christ here, since :

1. Jesus had not yet been born.

2. Jesus Christ was the GOSPEL .


allah is such a Liar 

And (appoint him) an Apostle to the Children of Israel (with this message): I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I make for you out of clay as it were the figure of a bird and breathe into it and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave;

Sorry what does the above gibberish mean 

" I make for you out of clay as it were the figure of a bird and breathe into it "


Looks like ALLAH muddled up the Holy Spirit as a dove with some agnostic fairy tales.

Muhammad the plagiariser , how much lower can he go 

and I heal those born blind and the lepers and I quicken the dead by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe."(I have come to you) to attest the Law which was before me and to make lawful to you part of what was (before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah and obey me."It is Allah who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a way that is straight."

What on earth does this mean,

I am waiting.

Muslim leaders do not allow anybody to test or criticize the Quran. They see a critical evaluation as an attack on ISLAM. They scare their followers from any contact with Christian books on ISLAM. Many times , such books are bought in large quantities and burnt to prevent other Muslims from reading them.

Now this is quite hypocritical , considering that Muhammad plagiarized aspects of the Bible.

Sometimes Muslims threaten the government , threatening to riot if they do not do something. Some of them use their position in the police or secret police to harass Christian booksellers and publishers who distribute such books while they themselves publish and circulate anti-Christian books, audio, and video cassettes all over the world.

These efforts to prevent Muslims from reading Christian books are a sign of the weakness of ISLAM.

Muslims leaders are hiding something which they don't want their followers to know. This is intellectual captivity.

Now they are almost bullying some bible publishers to remove key words in the bible and replace with Islamic ones.

It will not work , they will fail, I say amen to that.

frosbel are you not tired of lying and whining and showing bitterness over Islam?

Nigeria is a majority muslim country even though christians and igbos like you detest it.and it will continue to be like that even if we have one hundred more presidents who are christian.

if you dont like Nigeria like it is and Nigerians as we are,then find another country.you are in the UK,you can remain there.Oh,i forgot,Islam is the fastest growing religion in the UK and many have long abandoned christianity and the Brits are looking to Islam 

you keep making claims you can't prove or have been refuted and just an easy search on google can reveal that.and when you are given answers you pull trivial words to make it look like a reply.

see your lies here:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-99773.160.html#msg10076048

LagosShia:

frosbel are you not tired of lying and whining and showing bitterness over Islam?

Nigeria is a majority muslim country even though christians and igbos like you detest it.and it will continue to be like that even if we have one hundred more presidents who are christian.

if you dont like Nigeria like it is and Nigerians as we are,then find another country.you are in the UK,you can remain there.Oh,i forgot,Islam is the fastest growing religion in the UK and many have long abandoned christianity and the Brits are looking to Islam 

you keep maing claims you can't prove.and when you are given answers you pull trivial words to make it look like a reply.

see your lies here:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-99773.160.html#msg10076048

I take this to mean that you can no longer meet head-on intellectual arguements or debate.

I am done with you, go play with your Plagiarized Quran 

And by the way , this is not a Nigerian thing, as I am a Nigerian patriot.

It's all about, you guys leave us alone and stop trying to shove your stone age barbaric ideolody down our throats. We have always left you guys to serve your deity with no violence or coercion, the same cannot be said of radical ISLAM.

Much Love ,

Frosbel.

Ha ha ha

[size=14pt]LagosShia is loving this! This is what he lives for! Confusion in the Christian camp.He must be really hard tonight, "Ramota" go suffer tonight.[/size]

frosbel:


I take this to mean that you can no longer meet head-on intellectual arguements or debate.

I am done with you, go play with your Plagiarized Quran 

And by the way , this is not a Nigerian thing, as I am a Nigerian patriot.

It's all about, you guys leave us alone and stop trying to shove your stone age barbaric ideolody down our throats. We have always left you guys to serve your deity with no violence or coercion, the same cannot be said of radical ISLAM.

Much Love ,

Frosbel.

pulling too many redherrings is obviously the new tactic.and it does not take much to either ignore them as they have being replied to severally and provide the links or counter with more redherrings against christianity.

-Jesus was the son of a Roman soldier according to jewish report

- Jesus was seen in Kashmir (India) and fled the sentence to crucifixion according to Ahmadiyya

-Half of the new testament is forged according to a bible scholar:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-687029.0.html

-Bible contains text discrepancies according to yet another bible scholar:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-734053.0.html

-Jesus never existed according to atheists.

now convince us frosbel that all the above are not true and your christianity is true.

your new tactic of pulling redherrings and accusing islam of this and that and making this and that allegation is not something new.it only shows you are frustrated and desperately burning with hate.

be careful,otherwise you'd harm yourself or God will strike you and make you a sign for those like you.

mrmayor:

Ha ha ha

[size=14pt]LagosShia is loving this! This is what he lives for! Confusion in the Christian camp.He must be really hard tonight, "Ramota" go suffer tonight.[/size]