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Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by Afam(m): 1:29pm On Oct 15, 2007 |
From my inbox, enjoy the content and if possible focus on the issues raised rather than attack personalities, that strategy stopped working some months ago. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= Editor's Note: This is a special 2-part series on new evidence obtained by the Chicago Tribune. The second part will be delivered to you tomorrow. After 40 years, the truth needs to be revealed. Video Clip Of The Week US Had Foreknowledge of Israeli Attack On Syria On September 20, Israel attacked Syria under mysterious circumstances. Both Israeli and US governments maintained silence on the nature of the attack and a compliant media followed suit. But there were a few isolated reports in the media. View: <a href=" http://www.evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=9142 "> US Had Foreknowledge of Israeli Attack On Syria</a> ----------------------------------------------------------- Did US and Israel Lie about the 1967 USS Liberty Incident? -By John Crewdson, Chicago Tribune senior correspondent Bryce Lockwood, Marine staff sergeant, Russian-language expert, recipient of the Silver Star for heroism, ordained Baptist minister, is shouting into the phone. "I'm angry! I'm seething with anger! Forty years, and I'm seething with anger!" Lockwood was aboard the USS Liberty, a super-secret spy ship on station in the eastern Mediterranean, when four Israeli fighter jets flew out of the afternoon sun to strafe and bomb the virtually defenseless vessel on June 8, 1967, the fourth day of what would become known as the Six-Day War. For Lockwood and many other survivors, the anger is mixed with incredulity: that Israel would attack an important ally, then attribute the attack to a case of mistaken identity by Israeli pilots who had confused the U.S. Navy's most distinctive ship with an Egyptian horse- cavalry transport that was half its size and had a dis- similar profile. And they're also incredulous that, for years, their own government would reject their calls for a thorough investigation. "They tried to lie their way out of it!" Lockwood shouts. "I don't believe that for a minute! You just don't shoot at a ship at sea without identifying it, making sure of your target!" Four decades later, many of the more than two dozen Liberty survivors located and interviewed by the Tribune cannot talk about the attack without shouting or weeping. Their anger has been stoked by the declassification of government documents and the recollections of former military personnel, including some quoted in this article for the first time, which strengthen doubts about the U.S. National Security Agency's position that it never intercept- ed the communications of the attacking Israeli pilots -- communications, according to those who remember seeing them, that showed the Israelis knew they were attacking an American naval vessel. The documents also suggest that the U.S. government, anxious to spare Israel's reputation and preserve its alliance with the U.S., closed the case with what even some of its participants now say was a hasty and seriously flawed investigation. In declassifying the most recent and largest batch of materials last June 8, the 40th anniversary of the attack, the NSA, this country's chief U.S. electronic-intelligence- gatherer and code-breaker, acknowledged that the attack had "become the center of considerable controversy and debate." It was not the agency's intention, it said, "to prove or disprove any one set of conclusions, many of which can be drawn from a thorough review of this material," available at http://www.nsa.gov/liberty . An Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman, Mark Regev, called the attack on the Liberty "a tragic and terrible accident, a case of mistaken identity, for which Israel has official- ly apologized." Israel also paid reparations of $6.7 million to the injured survivors and the families of those killed in the attack, and another $6 million for the loss of the Liberty itself. But for those who lost their sons and husbands, neither the Israelis' apology nor the passing of time has lessened their grief. One is Pat Blue, who still remembers having her lunch in Washington's Farragut Square park on "a beautiful June afternoon" when she was a 22-year-old secretary for a law firm. Blue heard somebody's portable radio saying a U.S. Navy ship had been torpedoed in the eastern Mediterranean. A few weeks before, Blue's husband of two years, an Arab- language expert with the NSA, had been hurriedly dispatched overseas. As she listened to the news report, "it just all came together." Soon afterward, the NSA confirmed that Allen Blue was among the missing. "I never felt young again," she said. Aircraft on the horizon Beginning before dawn on June 8, Israeli aircraft regularly appeared on the horizon and circled the Liberty. The Israeli Air Force had gained control of the skies on the first day of the war by destroying the Egyptian air force on the ground. America was Israel's ally, and the Israelis knew the Americans were there. The ship's mission was to monitor the communications of Israel's Arab enemies and their Soviet advisers, but not Israeli communications. The Liberty felt safe. Then the jets started shooting at the officers and enlisted men stretched out on the deck for a lunch-hour sun bath. Theodore Arfsten, a quartermaster, remembered watching a Jewish officer cry when he saw the blue Star of David on the planes' fuselages. At first, crew members below decks had no idea whose planes were shooting at their ship. Thirty-four died that day, including Blue, the only civilian casualty. An additional 171 were wounded in the air and sea assault by Israel, which was about to celebrate an overwhelming victory over the combined armies of Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and several other Arab states. For most of those who survived the attack, the Six-Day War has become the defining moment of their lives. Some mustered out of the Navy as soon as their enlistments were up. Others stayed in long enough to retire. Several went on to successful business careers. One became a Secret Service agent, another a Baltimore policeman. Several are being treated with therapy and drugs for what has since been recognized as post-traumatic stress dis- order. One has undergone more than 30 major operations. Another suffers seizures caused by a piece of shrapnel still lodged in his brain. After Bryce Lockwood left the Marines, he worked construct- ion, then tried selling insurance. "I'd get a job and get fired," he said. "I had a hell of a time getting my feet on the ground." With his linguistic background, Lockwood could have had a career with the NSA, the CIA, or the FBI. But he was too angry at the U.S. government to work for it. "Don't talk to me about government!" he shouts. U.S. Navy jets were called back An Israeli military court of inquiry later acknowledged that their naval headquarters knew at least three hours before the attack that the odd-looking ship 13 miles off the Sinai Peninsula, sprouting more than 40 antennas cap- able of receiving every kind of radio transmission, was "an electromagnetic audio-surveillance ship of the U.S. Navy," a floating electronic vacuum cleaner. The Israeli inquiry later concluded that that information had simply gotten lost, never passed along to the ground controllers who directed the air attack nor to the crews of the three Israeli torpedo boats who picked up where the air force left off, strafing the Liberty's decks with their machine guns and launching a torpedo that blew a 39-foot hole in its starboard side. To a man, the survivors interviewed by the Tribune rejected Israel's explanation. Nor, the survivors said, did they understand why the American 6th Fleet, which included the aircraft carriers America and Saratoga, patrolling 400 miles west of the Liberty, launched and then recalled at least two squadrons of Navy fighter-bombers that might have arrived in time to prevent the torpedo attack -- and save 26 American lives. J.Q. "Tony" Hart, then a chief petty officer assigned to a U.S. Navy relay station in Morocco that handled communi- cations between Washington and the 6th Fleet, remembered listening as Defense Secretary Robert McNamara, in Washing- ton, ordered Rear Adm. Lawrence Geis, commander of the America's carrier battle group, to bring the jets home. When Geis protested that the Liberty was under attack and needed help, Hart said, McNamara retorted that "President [Lyndon] Johnson is not going to go to war or embarrass an American ally over a few sailors." McNamara, who is now 91, told the Tribune he has "absolute- ly no recollection of what I did that day," except that "I have a memory that I didn't know at the time what was going on." The Johnson administration did not publicly dispute Israel's claim that the attack had been nothing more than a disastrous mistake. But internal White House documents obtained from the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library show that the Israelis' explanation of how the mistake had occurred was not believed. Except for McNamara, most senior administration officials from Secretary of State Dean Rusk on down privately agreed with Johnson's intelligence adviser, Clark Clifford, who was quoted in minutes of a National Security Council staff meeting as saying it was "inconceivable" that the attack had been a case of mistaken identity. The attack "couldn't be anything else but deliberate," the NSA's director, Lt. Gen. Marshall Carter, later told Congress. "I don't think you'll find many people at NSA who believe it was accidental," Benson Buffham, a former deputy NSA director, said in an interview. "I just always assumed that the Israeli pilots knew what they were doing," said Harold Saunders, then a member of the National Security Council staff and later assistant secretary of state for Near Eastern and South Asian affairs. "So for me, the question really is who issued the order to do that and why? That's the really interesting thing." The answer, if there is one, will probably never be known. Gen. Moshe Dayan, then the country's minister of defense; Levi Eshkol, the Israeli prime minister; and Golda Meir, his successor, are all dead. Many of those who believe the Liberty was purposely attack- ed have suggested that the Israelis feared the ship might intercept communications revealing its plans to widen the war, which the U.S. opposed. But no one has ever produced any solid evidence to support that theory, and the Israelis dismiss it. The NSA's deputy director, Louis Tordella, speculated in a recently declassified memo that the attack "might have been ordered by some senior commander on the Sinai Peninsula who wrongly suspected that the LIBERTY was monitoring his activities." Was the U.S. flag visible? Though the attack on the Liberty has faded from public memory, Michael Oren, a historian and senior fellow at The Shalem Center in Jerusalem, conceded that "the case of the assault on the Liberty has never been closed." If anything, Oren said, "the accusations leveled against Israel have grown sharper with time." Oren said in an interview that he believed a formal investigation by the U.S., even 40 years later, would be useful if only because it would finally establish Israel's innocence. Questions about what happened to the Liberty have been kept alive by survivors' groups and their Web sites, a half-dozen books, magazine articles and television documentaries, scholarly papers published in academic journals, and Internet chat groups where amateur sleuths debate arcane points of photo interpretation and torpedo running depth. Meantime, the Liberty's survivors and their supporters, including a distinguished constellation of retired admirals and generals, have persisted in asking Congress for a full- scale formal investigation. "We deserve to have the truth," Pat Blue said. For all its apparent complexity, the attack on the Liberty can be reduced to a single question: Was the ship flying the American flag at the time of the attack, and was that flag visible from the air? The survivors interviewed by the Tribune uniformly agree that the Liberty was flying the Stars and Stripes before, during and after the attack, except for a brief period in which one flag that had been shot down was replaced with another, larger flag -- the ship's "holiday colors" -- that measured 13 feet long. Concludes one of the declassified NSA documents: "Every official interview of numerous Liberty crewmen gave consistent evidence that indeed the Liberty was flying an American flag -- and, further, the weather conditions were ideal to ensure its easy observance and identification." The Israeli court of inquiry that examined the attack, and absolved the Israeli military of criminal culpability, came to precisely the opposite conclusion. "Throughout the contact," it declared, "no American or any other flag appeared on the ship." The attack, the court said, had been prompted by a report, which later proved erroneous, that a ship was shelling Israeli-held positions in the Sinai Peninsula. The Liberty had no guns capable of shelling the shore, but the court concluded that the U.S. ship had been mistakenly identified as the source of the shelling. Yiftah Spector, the first Israeli pilot to attack the ship, told the Jerusalem Post in 2003 that when he first spotted the Liberty, "I circled it twice and it did not fire on me. My assumption was that it was likely to open fire at me and nevertheless I slowed down and I looked and there was positively no flag." But the Liberty crewmen interviewed by the Tribune said the Israeli jets simply appeared and began shooting. They also said the Liberty did not open fire on the planes because it was armed only with four .50-caliber machine guns intended to repel boarders. "I can't identify it, but in any case it's a military ship," Spector radioed his ground controller, according to a transcript of the Israeli air-to-ground communications published by the Jerusalem Post in 2004. That transcript, made by a Post reporter who was allowed to listen to what the Israeli Air Force said were tapes of the attacking pilots' communications, contained only two references to "American" or "Americans," one at the beginning and the other at the end of the attack. The first reference occurred at 1:54 p.m. local time, two minutes before the Israeli jets began their first strafing run. In the Post transcript, a weapons system officer on the ground suddenly blurted out, "What is this? Americans?" "Where are Americans?" replied one of the air controllers. The question went unanswered, and it was not asked again. Twenty minutes later, after the Liberty had been hit repeatedly by machine guns, 30 mm cannon and napalm from the Israelis' French-built Mirage and Mystere fighter- bombers, the controller directing the attack asked his chief in Tel Aviv to which country the target vessel belonged. "Apparently American," the chief controller replied. Fourteen minutes later the Liberty was struck amidships by a torpedo from an Israeli boat, killing 26 of the 100 or so NSA technicians and specialists in Russian and Arabic who were working in restricted compartments below the ship's waterline. Analyst: Israelis wanted it sunk The transcript published by the Jerusalem Post bore scant resemblance to the one that in 1967 rolled off the tele- type machine behind the sealed vault door at Offutt Air Force Base in Omaha, where Steve Forslund worked as an intelligence analyst for the 544th Air Reconnaissance Technical Wing, then the highest-level strategic planning office in the Air Force. "The ground control station stated that the target was American and for the aircraft to confirm it," Forslund recalled. "The aircraft did confirm the identity of the target as American, by the American flag. "The ground control station ordered the aircraft to attack and sink the target and ensure they left no survivors." Forslund said he clearly recalled "the obvious frustration of the controller over the inability of the pilots to sink the target quickly and completely." "He kept insisting the mission had to sink the target, and was frustrated with the pilots' responses that it didn't sink." Nor, Forslund said, was he the only member of his unit to have read the transcripts. "Everybody saw these," said Forslund, now retired after 26 years in the military. Forslund's recollections are supported by those of two other Air Force intelligence specialists, working in widely separate locations, who say they also saw the transcripts of the attacking Israeli pilots' communications. One is James Gotcher, now an attorney in California, who was then serving with the Air Force Security Service's 6924th Security Squadron, an adjunct of the NSA, at Son Tra, Vietnam. "It was clear that the Israeli aircraft were being vectored directly at USS Liberty," Gotcher recalled in an e-mail. "Later, around the time Liberty got off a distress call, the controllers seemed to panic and urged the aircraft to 'complete the job' and get out of there." Six thousand miles from Omaha, on the Mediterranean island of Crete, Air Force Capt. Richard Block was commanding an intelligence wing of more than 100 analysts and crypt- ologists monitoring Middle Eastern communications. ------------------------------------------------------------ |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by mrpataki(m): 2:00pm On Oct 15, 2007 |
Why is that most of your topics are always from your socalled ''inbox''? Dont you ever sit down and reason things yourself? You already have a biased opinion to the issue, yet again this topic will degenerate into another avenue of invectives to those who go against your own view(s). Goodluck. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by Mariory(m): 3:34pm On Oct 15, 2007 |
Inbox working overtime! Next week "T[i]he real reason Israel, America and Bush want us to believe the sky is blue[/i]" |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by Nobody: 3:45pm On Oct 15, 2007 |
I stopped reading the article when i came across the period in question: the ship was bombed during the 6 day war, clearly a case of mistaken identity considering the fact that the ship was in waters controlled by her arab enemies. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by texazzpete(m): 4:31pm On Oct 15, 2007 |
Not to attack personalities or anything, but why are we constantly urged notr to believe anything we hear on CNN or other western media, yet we're now being spoon-fed articles by unknown people? Your article indicates a cover-up of the whole incident by the US to avoid a public row with their Middle East Ally (Israel). so why post a misleading title, insinuating that the US had foreknowledge of the attack? Make attempts to verify your 'inbox' stories before you post 'em. If you really claim to be unbiased, please kindly refrain from asking us to 'enjoy' the contents of your articles before they are verified. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by Afam(m): 5:01pm On Oct 15, 2007 |
The right you believe you have to ask me to do the following texazzpete: is the same right that I have to ask people to enjoy an article so it becomes pure double standard for you complain as reproduced below texazzpete: The world is in a mess today because many believe they have a right to do one thing and at the same time believe others don't have rights to do same thing or in the extreme they believe others shouldn't have rights at all. I only wish we stop and ask ourselves why there is usually a disconnect between what we preach and what we practice. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by Nobody: 6:36pm On Oct 15, 2007 |
Afam: You give a lot of advice but your biggest problem is applying same to yourself. Here is an example: Afam: |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by naijaking1: 7:33pm On Oct 15, 2007 |
The 1967 USS Liberty incident remains an emotionally charged and politically divisive topics in US/Israeli relationship- no doubt. But, what is the purpose of bringing in it up at this time? Ever thought of doing an article on other unanswered US incidents, such as JF. Kennedy assasination, FBI spying on MLK/his wife, and Invasion of the Bay of pigs? I like to know what you think about other topics. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by uspry1(f): 8:04pm On Oct 15, 2007 |
Have you thought about researching on the largest unsolved cases of all innocent Black prisoners who did not commit the crimes back 1960s but all their evidences and witnesses destroyed and never been put them for trials (violated their rights to seek for trials or speak out for themself) by white law enforcements/lawyers in the past? For example one story about a black lady back 1960s were murdered, accused to black man who killed her, 40 years later, one retired white cop confessed to frame a black innocent man(prisoner). The real 4 white cops killed a black innocent lady who walked on the street carrying her grocery store back to home alone at late night as hate-crime to make fun of black people. (no witness at that time). This is good example that is how lot of state courts are allowing to reopen unsolved cases to be re-investigate all over 200 innocent black prisoners. 150 were released based on found fake cases/prison records. Left 50 still unsolved. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by naijaking1: 8:17pm On Oct 15, 2007 |
@uspry1 I second you. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by Afam(m): 8:25pm On Oct 15, 2007 |
davidylan: I applied my advice and that is why I did not attack anyone's personality. What part of my post didn't you understand? naijaking1: Have you read the article as pasted here before? If no, then others may not mind reading it. naijaking1: I did not do any article on this, maybe you missed the "from my inbox" line above. In any case, what would be the purpose of doing an article on FBI spying on MLK/his wife? naijaking1: Other topics like JF Kennedy assasination or invasion of the Bay of pigs or what? What a person thinks on any issue to me is immaterial, what I consider supreme is reality, what happened, facts, truth etc. I never bother myself with what individuals think on certain issues. I prefer to focus on the issues and not the personalities discussing them, that is what I have been preaching and practicing and I hope you do same. uspry1: This thread has a particular title. If you don't like the title or the content you ignore it, asking someone to research something that bothers you is funny and out of place. You don't think for people. Research what you want to research, start a thread on what catches your fancy. Stop trying to make people do what you think, it causes a lot of headache. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by uspry1(f): 9:13pm On Oct 15, 2007 |
@ poster (Afam) The answer is Israel claimed the USS Liberty was mistaken for the out-of-service Egyptian horse carrier El Quseir. Pictures and video displayed at below. source cite: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ussliberty.html |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by naijaking1: 10:15pm On Oct 15, 2007 |
@Afam I read the whole article from the inbox. I do not have issues with any attempt to revisit, discuss, and analyse historical events, especially if it has a potential to affect us a people. By the same token, I'm only saying that there are also some unresolved "conspiracy" issues concerning the US and others. For example, if the FBI spied on MLK and his wife as peace-loving as they were, who knows what they might do next? Also, I'll understand if your bias is Israel/Middle east. @uspry1 Excellent link for those unfamiliar with the Liberty incident. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by Nobody: 11:01pm On Oct 15, 2007 |
Afam: lol facts, truth, reality and what happened indeed! Is pulling conspiracy theories out of your inbox a way of dealing with facts? Afam: coming from the person who has been crying the loudest about multiple IDs? |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by McKren(m): 11:15pm On Oct 15, 2007 |
The most curious thing I have seen on nairaland is how some of us have simply alligned themsleves as pro-US or pro-Arab and then throw abuses to their supposedly compatriots no matter the topic of discussion. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by Tornadoz(m): 11:27pm On Oct 15, 2007 |
@McKren You ain't seen nothing yet. Wait till the chief abuser pops round for his usual release. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by Nobody: 11:29pm On Oct 15, 2007 |
Tornadoz: You mean Afam? |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by McKren(m): 11:44pm On Oct 15, 2007 |
all am saying is it is pointless picking up a fight with a fellow Nigerian because of any foreign nation. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by Tornadoz(m): 12:23am On Oct 16, 2007 |
davidylan:No not the Nairaland legend Afam. I mean the one next to you, the one joined at the hip politically with you. Yes him, the one trick monkey. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by Nobody: 1:08am On Oct 16, 2007 |
Tornadoz: See how well Tornadoz discusses issues. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by Mariory(m): 11:47am On Oct 16, 2007 |
McKren: It is even more curious that one (yes only one) individual keeps copying and pasting conspiracy emails about America, Israel, or the West in the Middle East on the Nigerian politics board. I think it is even more interesting that about 95% of these so called pro-US and pro-Arab arguments are also started by this same individual. Pehaps he is trying to spread his ideology? Very curious indeed. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by RichyBlacK(m): 12:41pm On Oct 16, 2007 |
Afam, Thanks for the post. I enjoyed it greatly and learned one or two things. This shows that Israel's arrogance and pride, stemming from some belief that they are the chosen, knows no bounds. I remember in 2003 when the Israelis murdered an American woman - Rachel Corrie (http://www.ccmep.org/2003_articles/Palestine/031603_american_woman_peace_activist_ki.htm) while she was exercising her right to peaceful demonstration (a theocracy that pretends to be a democracy, like Israel, will understandably be intolerant of non-violent demonstrations), and the Bush White House (a puppet of the AIPAC) did nothing. I just pray that more Americans would see that Israel's policies only makes their country look very bad. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by texazzpete(m): 1:44pm On Oct 16, 2007 |
uspry1: Have you thought about the wisdom (or lack thereof) for a Nigerian to go about 'researching' things that happened many years ago in another country while his own country smoulders around him? have YOU ever done any research into what happens in Darfur, or what caused the massacres in Rwanda? Misplaced priorities. . . naijaking1:And you really think the Nigerian Government hasn't tried to probe into Soyinka's or Gani's background? Hell, even the press/media inmost Western countries will spy on and follow any notable public figure or celebrity. There are also many, many 'unresolved conspiracy issues' concerning Nigeria. I wonder why this fascination with the US. AFAIK, Dele Giwa's death still counts as an 'unresolved conspiracy issue'. RichyBlacK: You learned something from an unverified, unsubstantiated article? Do you even know who the article writer is? Why? Unless something is proven and backed up with unassailable facts, it pretty much remains an allegation and somewhat defamatory. Why 'enjoy greatly' something that quite possibly may be false? I think the statement 'Israel's Arrogance and pride' is over used. If Nigeria and Nigerians had to live in as much adversity as Israel has had to, we'd be more sympathetic. Just sayin' |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by mrpataki(m): 2:01pm On Oct 16, 2007 |
I wonder when it became a task for Nigerians in Nigeria to start bothering into cases of the US and make it their headache, when there are multiple cases of open murder that Nigeria herself has not solved. The death of Dele Giwa is there, na message from the inbox one gets to be reading every now and then. which later on results into an open arrogance and sheer display of intellectual deficiency in reasoning. Why not read what you can obtain and use the knowledge to solve the genocide cases abounding in Africa-Nigeria. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by Nobody: 2:10pm On Oct 16, 2007 |
RichyBlacK: Where has this belief ever been publicly expressed as a reason for their right defend themselves? RichyBlacK: Rachel Corie was only murdered in the eyes of hypocrites and conspiracy theorists. She was killed by accident; here's a question you should ask yourself . . .Rachel Corie's death was filmed by her friends, why didnt these people save her rather than choose to film? RichyBlacK: Not really, Isreal has no extra ordinary policies beyond ensuring that they can survive the barrage of suicide bombers and qassam rockets. Isnt it amazing that you cant even mention one of these "policies" you keep crying about? |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by uspry1(f): 2:11pm On Oct 16, 2007 |
@ texazzpete I already know about Africa tribal wars such as Biafra, Congo, Rwanda, Durfar, and many more that prompted me interesting to learn all Africa history since my childhood, only thing bothers me why the world hate Africa like Nigeria so much so far. It broke my heart. I never give up doing my research on Nigeria as well as never believe on western media after my grandfather's death. The more my heart bleed when USA banned the factual world history books late 1970s-early 1980s. Only my God-fearing grandfather taught me lot about racism and religious wars that I never understand why it cause so much pains hurting God's precious children. I wish to forget the past and move on---STOP CARRYING BAGGAGES!!!! It is harder to educate everyone on history to be corrected. Too much lies, corruptions, cover-ups and other negative factors. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by Afam(m): 2:23pm On Oct 16, 2007 |
uspry1: Thanks for the link. The information contained on that site goes to support the view that indeed Israel deliberately attacked USS Liberty and those in charge of the operation were pissed off that they could not sink the vessel. Truth is supreme, there is no option to it. Advice to those interested in research for other issues like Dele Giwa and co This is a public forum. You are allowed to start a new thread on any major category or sub category and it is free, money no dey change hand so no fear. You need to know where two buttons are located for you to successfully start a thread on what catches your fancy. 1. New Topic (if you know your way around) 2. Help button (if you cannot figure out how to use the forum). There are topics I never bother to read, in fact I don't visit sections outside Politics, Programming, Technology, Web masters and very infrequently Business. So, it is not compulsory for one to visit all the sections and it is not compulsory for one to reply to any thread. I can't figure out how person go dey purge for wetin another person chop, na wah oo. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by mrpataki(m): 2:29pm On Oct 16, 2007 |
I wonder when it became a task for Nigerians in Nigeria to start bothering into cases of the US and make it their headache, when there are multiple cases of open murder that Nigeria herself has not solved. The death of Dele Giwa is there, na message from the inbox one gets to be reading every now and then. which later on results into an open arrogance and sheer display of intellectual deficiency in reasoning. Why not read what you can obtain and use the knowledge to solve the genocide cases abounding in Africa-Nigeria. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by texazzpete(m): 4:27pm On Oct 16, 2007 |
Afam: Doesn't this strike you as being hypocritical, considering the fact that you constantly lambast the US for any misstep, real or imagined? Unless, of course, you can prove that the Iraq war and the 'missing' nukes in the US affect you and your business. If not, you're also purging for wetin another person chop |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by Afam(m): 5:37pm On Oct 16, 2007 |
Sure, I got business interests in the US. I guess that proves I have a right to talk about what it does. Bt don't bother trying to divert attention to other issues as the facts on this issue are so overwhelming that any diversion would be welcome by you. Stick to the issue or take a hike, your choice but stop worrying too much about what you think people should think or do as you don't think for others. |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by Nobody: 5:38pm On Oct 16, 2007 |
Afam: What "overwhelming facts"? Besides the mere regurgitation of a questionable article, what other "facts" buttress your point? |
Re: Did Us And Israel Lie About The 1967 Uss Liberty Incident? -by John Crewdson, by Afam(m): 5:47pm On Oct 16, 2007 |
davidylan: Check your pockets or look under your bed you may see them. Unfortunately, I am not aware of any way of making you see what is obvious as I am not into playing games with lies and trying to shift the goal post anytime Van Persie wan hala shot. |
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