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Stats: 1,345,908 members, 2,000,583 topics. Date: Sunday, 19 April 2015 at 08:58 AM
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by Rossikk(m): 5:42pm On Feb 17, 2012|
This are idols that have kept us in the dark for more than 1000years and never added anything Good to our lives why keep them?
Far from 'keeping us in the dark', it was practitioners of African religion that invented writing, architecture, medicine, astronomy, the arts, and the sciences. The Africans who pioneered these areas thousands of years ago, worshipped God the creator as manifested in the African experience and consciousness, not as forced upon them by foreign invaders.
The deities you ignorantly refer to as 'idols', are, in African religion, seen as individual expressions and manifestations of the power of the Creator, who has been worshipped in Africa for 50,000 years minimum, long before the creation of the white man and the invention of 'Jesus'. So, Africans do not worship ''idols''. Go and learn and understand what African religion is before condemning it. If Africans fell behind in technology and came to be exploited by foreigners, that had to do with geographical and political factors that have nothing to do with whatever religion Africans practised. It's as silly as blaming your fate on the type of food you eat, or the colour of your eyes.
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by dj5naira(m): 6:04pm On Feb 17, 2012|
Christainity 8-2 The Old gods of Nigeria.
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by Rossikk(m): 6:19pm On Feb 17, 2012|
^^^ 8-2? And what have you got to show for it? Nothing but corruption, looting, armed robbery, 4-1-9, civil war, bombing, embezzlement, and pastors owning private jets while their congregations starve.
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by Ptolomeus(m): 6:39pm On Feb 17, 2012|
Dear friend ghostofsparta
Very interesting your post. I agree with many things.
But I've been pondering a question: we speak of polytheism; of "gods", however, Orissa (as you say) would be humanized representation of certain natural forces Olorún fumes. I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong) that Orisá is not a god but an intermediate stage between men and God only creator. This being so, it would be a monotheistic religion, and the statement that was polytheistic could have been born the wrong concept of the first European researchers ,
I would like to know what you think about it ,
Dear friend PAY 9JA
I agree with you that there is some parallelism between the cult of Orisá and many religions as the Roman, Greek and Norse for example. Add to your examples to Esú (Eshu or if you prefer) with Mercury and Hermes , I think there are many other examples ,
Dear friend Rossikk
I do not know if the best solution is to burn the churches , The blasphemies and falsehoods that claim on Orissa nobody can believe, even they believe them.
The fruit falls from the tree by its own weight.
Our mission is to show that it is not.
At least here there is much lack of religious culture in our media, it must be changed, demonstrate that we are educated, intelligent, honest, good neighbors. I can be wrong, but at least it would be a first step.
Warm regards to all!
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by Ptolomeus(m): 6:44pm On Feb 17, 2012|
Only he who is ignorant may say that African religion has just 1,000 years ,
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by Horus(m): 7:33pm On Feb 17, 2012|
The first thing the colonial invader did was to disconnect us from our African spirituality and culture by enforcing Christianity on us. Just as a tree without roots is dead, a people without historical or cultural roots also becomes dead. You have nothing to identify yourselves as part of the human family. You know, you take a tree, you can tell what kind of tree it is by looking at its leaves. If the leaves are gone, you can look at the bark, and tell what kind it is. However, when you find a tree with its leaves and bark gone, everything’s gone, you call that a what? A stump; and you cannot identify a stump easily as you can identify a tree. This is the position that you are in here in Africa today. "Give them back their Jesus and return to your ancestors"
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by SNCOQ3(m): 9:09pm On Feb 17, 2012|
* Christianity treasures cultural diversity. you can praise God in your language, native dance, native attire, musical instrument, you're free to translate the bible to your local dialect. But do not worship idols.
* Christianity originated from the Middle East; founded by Jesus Christ not the invention of the West.
* The bible commands christians to be loyal to their goverment and judges tyrants and government that doesn't put its people first. bowing to foreigners against the interest of your citizen is against the bible.
* The central message of christianity is: Jesus is the only Way to God, the Truth, and the Life, Love God with all your heart, Love your neighbor as yourself, do to others what u want them to do to u, husband love your wife, wife love your husband. How does this belief impede national development??
* Jesus says: ", observe the lillies see how they grow, " what does it imply? what is science? :The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena, is he not encouraging christains to study science? afterall Jesus is called the Logos Incarnate - "the Logic of God" incarnate.
* The bible calls all christians (black christians included) "Spiritual Jews". By implication: Jews, the most advanced race in the world are not superior to a black christian, This is liberating not enslaving.
* In terms of slavery, persecution, struggle; need i compare the history of Nigeria with the tiny people of Isreal?, look at Isreal today.
* America was once colonized by the British, the brits by the Romans, the Romans by the Greeks, we ain't the only one. Please let us take responsibility and stop blaming the whites for our own failings.
* Europeans were once idol worshippers like us, the bible from the middle east changed them for the better too. It never stood in the way of progress. Now Nigerians are on a missionary journey to morally bankrupt Europe, changing their lives with the bible too, never heared about who owns the largest church in ukraine?
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by SNCOQ3(m): 10:01pm On Feb 17, 2012|
Not all ancient artefacts are religious symbols. some where beautiful piece of artworks created for decorative purposes. Unfortunately the name of the artist/artisans were not documented. Such should be kept in a museum as national heritage.
But for the idols, if a man becomes a christian, breaks covenant with his false gods (evil spirits) and burn his idols in the process, how is that a problem to anyone? Its a personal choice.
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by SNCOQ3(m): 10:03pm On Feb 17, 2012|
Sorry but the bolded is just wishful thinking. Christianity is fast spreading deep into the heart of my village as we "speak". The most powerful witch in my village died 3 years ago after a revival took place there. Pagan shrines are falling, churches are rising.
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by Yujin(m): 10:14pm On Feb 17, 2012|
@SNCOQ3- may the good Lord bless you.
I am a Christian and I'm proud of it. It is a fact that our traditional African religions basically involves the worship of (demonics)spirits through the use of tangible things i.e the idols. The sophistry & beauty of those idols sincerely is captivating if you are a lover of the arts & it shows the ingenuity of our ancestors and I must say I am impressed by them. Some of these artefacts are for religious purposes while others are for cultural purposes. I strongly advocate for the elimination of religious based ones because they serve as contact points for those demonic spirits to remain relevant in our lives thereby distracting us from the true worship of God. But the cultural ones should be incorporated into our present ways of life to serve as the link between our past & present. I think this is what many of the evangelists do although some do not discriminate. If it hurts too much seeing the destruction of the devil's masts(idols), you could seek the promulgation of a law requesting the withdrawal of all idols to the state museums where the lovers of these dangerous item could carter for them just like wild animals are kept in the zoo for the safety of humans as well as for preservation. Yes, orthodox churches tolerated them depending on the vision & power available to the servant of God in that vicinity on the one hand & the other on the items in question. The Igbo traditional musical instruments were named fetish items by the white missionaries & were not allowed for use in the church those days. That later changed when indigenous priests came in as they saw no harm in those instruments. This is what I advocate.
That large item with decorations in Achina is also found in my hometown. It is called Ikoro/Ikolo. I counted 6pcs within my town (there may be more). In the course of my investigations, I found out it was use for sending signal those days-not for anything fetish. One of the largest ones is located in our market. Great crusades/revivals have been held even by Evang. Uma Ukpai without anybody torching it because it is purely cultural. Give the demonic ones to the whites if you don't want them destroyed because they are destroying of youths. Have you had of 'Okoro eto'?
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by SNCOQ3(m): 10:23pm On Feb 17, 2012|
Wonderful piece! need i say more?
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by SNCOQ3(m): 10:51pm On Feb 17, 2012|
By stating "THE GODS WILL RETURN TO NIGERIA SOON!" you have admitted that this "gods" were kicked out of Nigeria by a greater power. For in the name of Jesus every knees shall bow every tongues shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Yes, your "gods" -demons to be precise, will return after the rapture.
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by Martian(m): 11:59pm On Feb 17, 2012|
I know it's wishful thinking. The place is populated by intellectual midgets like yourself who can't see the forest for the trees.
It's about culture, history and self esteem. It's about pride. It's about facing the economic consequences of colonialism. It all starts in having some damn pride in your history and stop kowtowing to foreign idealogies that actually places another culture above yours.
It's not rocket science!!!
Witchcraft is not real. The "powerful witch" in your village either died of old age or maybe a medical condition that went untreated because of superstitions and inadequate medical institutions. Your imaginary friend didn't do sh#t.
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by Martian(m): 12:05am On Feb 18, 2012|
The creation of the white man??
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by Martian(m): 12:16am On Feb 18, 2012|
Maybe you don't understand.
Imagine that Nigeria had good governance and this "demonic" shrines and idols were preserved, do you know what that could translate too?
Tourism. Tourism means jobs.it means African Artifacts aren't being preserved by Europeans in London and Paris.
What would have happened if the greeks had decided to demolish statues of Zeus and all the other ancient ruins. If the sphinx was located in Nigeria, would it be as preserved as it is now?
Imagine a place in Nigeria like the sisten chapel with depictions of Chukwu or Oloodumare and all those idols and other artwork.
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by Martian(m): 12:28am On Feb 18, 2012|
Religion is the opium of the masses indeed. I was watching something about socialism and central planned economies and how Thatcher spearheaded free market reforms in the 80s and it occured to me that maybe the former communist and socialist states where able to rise out of their malaise because they didn't have the placebo provided by religion. The only answer for them was, REVOLUTION.
That will never happen in Nigeria because, Adeboye, Oyedepo and other obviously mentally deficient religious individuals are put on a pedestal and the hope of the "afterlife" has rendered this life( THE ONLY ON WE KNOW OF) secondary. That is the tragedy of religion.
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by SNCOQ3(m): 12:51am On Feb 18, 2012|
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by SNCOQ3(m): 1:14am On Feb 18, 2012|
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by blackcat1: 1:24am On Feb 18, 2012|
I rephrase my last sentence
We need to rediscover our true ancestral God or gods. Only then can we find peace and progress.
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by Martian(m): 1:34am On Feb 18, 2012|
Socialism is an economic system while communism is both an economic and political system.
Since it went over your head, I'll quote it again, maybe you'll understand.
I'm not in support of communism. Understand?
I thought the church "belonged to God"
and what does a church add to the GDP of a country? I have to assume you are talking about a business here because ownership implies "private property" and "profit".
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by Martian(m): 2:02am On Feb 18, 2012|
I won't only sling a mud, I'll sling more muds. lol
This is so ignorant, you need to take a hiatus from nairaland and rethink your worldview to prevent you from spouting this kind of drivel.
Holocaust vs 400 years of physical savery + 650 years of intellectual/mental slavery in the guise of religion and economic plundering.
Let me tell you a little secret.
When your MOGs tell you that they are affecting millions of lives in Europe and America with their "missionary journeys" and "branches". They are being "less than honest" with the truth,
All redeem churches, winners, scoan, oyaks and whatever the f#ck else are populated by Nigerians. They are not winning any morally bankrupt european souls. They are not even winning black american or black europeans souls, all they are doing is enriching themselves by building more branches to accomodate Nigerian immigrants in these countries.
The vietnamese have their churches, the Germans have theirs, poles have theirs, hispanics have theirs and of course the Nigerians(CE,winners,redeem etc) have theirs and they are all like Oil and water.
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by SNCOQ3(m): 2:21am On Feb 18, 2012|
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by SNCOQ3(m): 2:37am On Feb 18, 2012|
Perhaps, you should help yourself by posting a new topic titled : Christianity vs Atheism. This will put your argument into proper perspective.
This post: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by description assumes both parties believe in the existence of a Higher Being, God, spirits etc. So your atheistic view doesn't fit in.
bye for now.
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by Martian(m): 2:38am On Feb 18, 2012|
I know better than to argue with a christian fundie, so I'll just let you wallow in your own ignorance. Go do a little reading on socialism and communism.
My point is too much religion and an over dependence on god and his "spokesmen" can render people docile and accepting of mediocrity. Why do you think corrupt political leaders patronise religious leaders?
Britain and France didn't pray their ways out of misery either. By the way, when is your next revival? You know you need to pray for that breakthrough and you also need to bind the demons of atheism.
Oh, ok!!! I Got you!!! The figurative church belongs to "God" while the literal church (local assemblies) are founded and "owned" by pastors.
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by Martian(m): 2:46am On Feb 18, 2012|
No need for that. I consider your god to be as valid as the hindus' monkey god and both gods are as real as the leprechaun in the trunk of my car.
Unfortunately for you, this isn't a church or a christian gathering where dissenting views are discouraged. This is the world wide web where superstitions go to die. Also this is not like your biblical stories where your loving god censors things he doesn't like. I bet you wish you were Elisha right now so you could tell your god to summon some wild bears to kill me.
24 When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up forty-two lads of their number.
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by mazaje(m): 4:26am On Feb 18, 2012|
Martin I can see that you are giving SNCOQ3 a very good run for his money. . . . .
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by Martian(m): 4:37am On Feb 18, 2012|
They all start out smug in their delusions thinking they are talking to a myopic member of their congregation.
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by mazaje(m): 4:42am On Feb 18, 2012|
They often forget that they are on the world wide web where superstitions come to die as you aforementioned. . .
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by dj5naira(m): 8:36am On Feb 18, 2012|
Rossikk:The fact that you and I are alive and hearty, . . .that's something for us to show for it. You just got to thank God for THAT.
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by SNCOQ3(m): 8:45am On Feb 18, 2012|
Yes! where are we,
You lost this argument the moment you took it out of context and also subscribing to throwing insults. you're better left ignored.
When a Christian debates with an atheist, it has to be realized that you will never win the argument in the classic sense. In other words, the atheist will never admit defeat or concede a point.
Instead they will resort to an ad hominem attack. An ad hominem attack is when they have to resort to a personal insult in order to make their point. For example:
Christian: “The universe shows a great deal of order; therefore, its existence implies an intelligent creator.”
Atheist: “Only id.iots would believe that.”
When the atheist resorts to insults, you have won. What’s important to realize is that continuing to debate beyond that point diminishes your victory. It makes you look small and needy. When an atheist resorts to insults, the argument is over and they have lost it. That is when you need to claim victory and end the debate with that person. Insults in debate indicate a complete exhaustion of ideas.
Of course, this only applies if you, yourself, have not resorted to insults. If you are insulting the person you’re debating, you can’t expect them not to insult back. Whoever throws the first insult in a debate between a Christian and an atheist is the loser.
So, in atheist debates:
Rule#1: Do not personally attack the atheist.
Rule #2: Claim victory and walk away when the atheist insults you.
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by SNCOQ3(m): 10:10am On Feb 18, 2012|
I believe you need to discover Jesus Christ so you can have Personal peace and progress. For National Peace and Progress, what Nigeria need in is forensic righteousness. in her polity.
My Premise: Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. prov 14:34
Allow me to expound:
Their are 2 aspects of righteousness in the bible:
1. Imputed righteousness - This is purely mystical, it is the regeneration of a man's spirit into a child of God when he accepts Jesus Christ has his Lord and Savior. - This is what you need to have peace and personal progress.
2. Forensic righteousness - This is making decisions in line with absolute moral standards. This moral standard is derived from the 3 aspects of God's Character - Holiness, Love, and Justice. This is what any institution or country need to have peace and progress.
In practical terms,
Holiness is translated to Integrity, Accountabilty.
Love - Empathy, Compassion
Justice - Equity, Fairness
Countries with forensic righteousness in their polity are making progress, religious or not e.g Japan, Isreal, etc.
Countries[b] without[/b] forensic righteousness in their polity are failing, in spite of the numerous churches e.g Nigeria etc.
|Re: Christianity Vs. The Old Gods Of Nigeria by ektbear: 1:43pm On Feb 18, 2012|
You could probably write an interesting science fiction book based on the OPs title, i'd read it
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