Okay, before y'all decide to hunt me down really think about the above question.

If we weren't taught their ways, how do you think we would have been living our lives right about now? Certainly we would be discovered right now and nonetheless be colonized, but would we have all this techonology, intellectual-ism and political (democratical) sense of self? would Native Africans be winning Nobel Prizes and having seats in world organizations currently? Hell, would we even have Nairaland? I think about it all the time though. Yes,we all think that it was wrong to be manipulated and used for another civilization's development, but still.

Now that we're flaming, sesquipedalian argumentators, can we actually sit and say that it was a bad thing? IMO i think it's confusing, but I will get to that once if this discussion begins.

Must you be colonized before you imbibe ideas like technology, education and democracy etc? You should dust up on your history books. If you do you will learn that long before colonization, Africans and Europeans had freely traded with one another and if such mutual and equal contact had continued without colonization Africans would have surely gained from the advanced ways of Europeans, willfully and tacitly, what they deemed useful to better their own lives. For example if Africans wanted democracy they could learn from the French revolution and organised their own and so on. Now that would be the ideal. To willfully concur to ideas after ones has seen its benefits and rationals.

But what happened under colonialism apart from the exploitations and the manipulations was that institutions were forced on us without being asked. Africa was divided into various 'countries' without consultations with Africans. Even people lacking kings had one created for them by the colonial masters without asking if they wanted one. All these resulted in the present day clash of culture we are experiencing. We've neither renounced our traditional worldview nor absorbed fully the much craved modern worldview.

Oh, I do know my history  I agree with what you're saying.  The impact of trade and globalization has far more influence on world technology and education than colonization ever will--although I still believe that colonialism was an inevitable phase that we had to go through. What I'm saying is that our mentality right about now--intellectual ramblings about racism, tribalism and the struggle for acceptance, democracy, religion, true knowledge about ourselves, other -isms, if you will, might not be an issue. Hell, would Nigeria exist?  We certainly would be living our within our different ethinicities and territories, oblivious the others if we wanted. Nairaland, this site, is filled with issues linking to Colonization in many ways, and it is a conglomaration of the Nigerian Ethnic groups. Would this site exist then?

As far as imbibing western education, Colonization, although it had its sinister ramifications, ensured that much of us were educated faster. At least, that is how I see it. Nigeria's best intellectuals of the colonial period were very much influenced by their surroundings at the time. Africa's great novel Things Fall Apart was all about that theme.

So, I pose my question again. Wasn't colonization good in a way? Without it, would we be this attached to the concept of freedom? (I see you even mentioned the french revolution) Would we come to value our roots the way we do now?

yea what about neo-colonization. shell is making money off the ijaw people. And the money goes back to Europe and America. while ijaw land rots.
colonization retarded our development, without it we would have probably been individual nations. instead of lumping over 200 tribes together and calling it Nigeria. now nothing works without anybody rooting for their tribal blocs.

yea we are on boards of organizations, and so are other countries which were never colonised

yea chinua achebe won a nobel prize for literature. but we have a high illiteracy rate.

I'm not against investments by foriegn countries, but the host countries have to benefit. For instance those ijaw fishermen whose livelihood have been affected by crude oil spills should be compensated adequately.

The idea behind the colonization of African countries was that, we were animals that needed to be trained and controled. How can there be anything good about that? Sure if we hadn't been colonized, we would probably still be living in the stone ages but you forget that if it wasn't for colonization, the western world would be totally different from what we see today. I believe that if we had not been colonized we would have developed at our own time. Besides you forget all the bad things that came along with the colonization, for instance slavery, exploitation, corruption e.t.c.
Sure they educated us, taught us their language, and gave us their religion, but the truth is we had our own version of this things. Think about it, if the whitemen hadn't come we would still have food, medicine, education, entertainment, transportation, law and order. Instead we have a polluted society, with everyone running away at the slightest chance they get. Some good things might have come from colonization, but at what cost? Our culture, our people, Our dignity, our pride, our wealth, Our future. Does that sound like a fair bargain to you?

I cannot see in what way colonialism was a good thing. Colonialims was made possible by number of factors that left African societies in a severly weakened state, ready for exploitaton.
1. Colonialism would have been impossible without the legacy of the trans-atantic slave trade, which depopulated many African regions and made it very vulnerable to external domination
2. Colonialism in the tropical regions of Africa would would have been imposible without effective anti-malarial treatment. It's for a reason that West-Africa was called the white man's grave.
3. Colonialism would have been impossible without the internal European power struggles which led to a strong focus on the development of military technology. Generally speaking the majority o the African poplations were far better of before he first World War than the majorit of the population in Europe. The industrialisation in Europe and the US (2nd wave) needed the raw materials in Africa to sustain itself. The Maxim gun gave Europeans the edge in subjugating the African populations and imposing colonialism.

For al investments in educaton, infrastructure, etc, far more me was sucked out of Africa than ever came in. In Belgium, much of the monumental buildings were constructed with the profits from the ruber trade. These were built on te blood of the Congolese people and what did they get in return: 2 university graduates at indendence.

You just need to look at Japan to see that the good elements of European societies could be incorporated without colonialism. You only need to dig a little deeper to understand what a sham the so-called benefits of colonialism really were.

For me, the question should not be :"Wasn't Colonialism a Good thing" it should be "Isn't Recolonisation a Good idea?"

Because given the track record of Nigeria since the white  man left (let me not even include the other African countries), if you put up a referendum today asking whether the white man should be invited to come back and rule us, it will be passed FIAMMM! By a landslide. I mean if the vote is a true democratic referendum. I personally will vote against it but I bet the majority of Nigerians will go for a Bill Clinton or even Bush than these leaders who we have. Quite sad, but its our current situation.

And if this is so, all true "democrats" should be considering this option.

And let no one come with the old "Its because of bad leaders" crap. Both as leaders and followers, Nigerians have proven (so far) that we do not have what it takes to manage ourselves as an independent nation.

Those who abuse Shell, forget that if it wasnt for Shell and the white man, we would not have found Oil. And we will not have this pleasure of making easy money from something we do not work for. We would all have been forced to really make/do something. They pay royalties and tax for their operations, yet they are asked to develope the areas they work in. Haba? Why? because they still make a profit after doing so. So we leave the govt that has pocketed the tax and royalty (which is our own actual share of the business) and start attacking them. Sheer utter myopia- the curse of the black man.

The person/system that governs is not what matters. independence/colonialism/ democracy/ dictatorship are all means to an end. The end being better standard of life for the greater mass of the population aka development. Ask the Nigerians who are choosing to go and live under a Chinese autocracy. The Nigerian standard of living developed more under colonialism than under its so-called independence. So colonialism was definitely better for the greater masses. Our Independence has to prove its worth.

It's a very complex but an interesting topic.I tend to agree more with Nnenna and t4cash,although I also appreciate the other points of view.
History seems to follow a predetermined end in an inexorable sort of way.
I hold the view that despite all the evils of slave trade,colonialism there were some benefits that accrued from it.
Let's be frank,there was little idyllic in the way people lived before the Europeans came.You could still see the traces of this in the way some indigenous groups(e.g Koma people) who had no contact with the colonialists, live up till today.What's so special about it?
Why did we rush to the hills to give them clothings and establish 'western' schools for them instead of allowing them to roam free in those hills untainted by 'western civilization'?What of those horrible practices(killing of twins,canibalism,burying of human beings with kings etc) that were stopped by the Europeans?
Even up till today,you could still see the benefits(I dare say) of early contacts with the Western influence in Nigeria.The groups in the south that had the earliest contacts with the missionaries are better off for it.The Yorubas,the Ibos etc
Even among the Yorubas,check out  Ogun state and you will admit that they benefited much from the activities of the missionaries.Also, Anambra people from the east are far ahead in the same way.
To say colonialism was all evil without some good is not only shallow,it's intellectual dishonesty.

They came with their lies said all we do is bad all our tradition. The brought pictures of a blond and blue eyed Jesus. Jesus did not have blond hair and i dont think he had blue eyes.
Alone things fall apart is enough to madden me.
And things have not really changed.

t4cash has said it all

Which kain people be this? oya let us bring back the white man and prove his agelong held theory that the black man is inferior and cannot compare with other races intellectually. Methinks that is the whole essence of t4cash's post.

What form of government where our fathers using before the white idiots came in? Read your history!
While there are many different types of government in pre-colonial Africa, most political systems fit into one of three political categories.
1. Centralized kingdoms and empires

The political systems of African kingdoms shared similarities with European kingdoms. The king, such as Mansa Musa of Mali and Sonni Ali of Songhay, had near absolute power and there was no separation of power. The king and his councilors and advisors carried out executive, legislative, and judicial functions. Given that political control was concentrated or centralized in the hands of a few people, political scientists refer to these societies as centralized states.

2. Centralized Small Kingdoms and City-States

As was true in Europe, Asia, and the Americas, not all African peoples lived in large kingdoms. There were a variety of social and political systems in Africa. In addition to the large kingdoms, there were smaller centralized political units, some of which historians call City States since they were made up of large urban-like areas. These geographically smaller states shared much in common with the larger African kingdoms. The primary difference was size. The system and practice of governance that centralized power in the hands of a king and a supporting caste of political advisors and elites in these smaller kingdoms was similar to that of larger kingdoms. Moreover, control of trade and a strong military were also important factors in the development and maintenance of these smaller states.
Oyo, Ife, Illorin, and Ibaban are examples of West African city-states. Sofala, Kilwa, Mombasa, and Lamu are examples of East African city-states.

3. Decentralized or Stateless Political Societies

Case-Study of Igbo Society
The Igbo are neighbors of the highly politically centralized Yoruba, but their political system is much different. Instead of centralized kingdoms headed by powerful kings, chiefs, and their advisors, the Igbo had no centralized system of governance. Rather they lived in politically autonomous villages. That is, each village was politically separate and was not politically connected to neighboring villages. Within the villages there was not a system of hereditary chiefs. Village decisions were made by a headman and a council of elders that selected the headman.
The absence of a centralized system of government did not mean that there was no system or institutions of governance among the Igbo speaking peoples. In addition to village based council of elders, there were religious organizations, structures of kinship ties-- lineage groups, and secret societies, that provided regulations which governed people's lives. These organizations guaranteed that no one group or institutions gained too much power--a system of checks and balances!
http://exploringafrica.matrix.msu.edu/curriculum/lm10/student/stuacttwo.html

Many people fail to realise that Democracy as a form of government came not from the Americans and Europeans but from the ancient indians and greeks/athenians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_democracy

Did our fathers go to western schools to create the marvelous benin artworks, what of the teraccota of the ancient NOK culture of the nok people of modern plateau state of nigeria? There are hundreds of international papers that describe metal works and ancient mines by precolonial african societies. http://www.projects.ex.ac.uk/mhn/Africa.html
I am sure there were no University professors from the white man's land to teach our fathers how to mine!

Our fathers developed intricate languages and history proves they were able to put down their language in written form!

No one is arguing that we were not civilized before the white man. For me, the question is did colonization develope us faster than we are developing today? Not before the white man came. Maybe we were once deveoping faster than the white man and the white man chaged our course of progress. To me that is irrelevant. The white man's colonization is part of our history and we cant change that. Rome once colonized Britain. And britain once colonized America.

The white man is not the problem anymore. But We , I repeat WE, are the ones proving ourselves inferior since they left!

otokx:

t4cash has said it all

Otoks, no mind them. Me I no sabi talk lie- thats my problem.

You can BS others, but the day you start BS'íng yourself you start going down. Let us tell ourselves the truth. We have failed as an independent contry relative to when we were colonized! Why? Lets be honest- No one knows. (Forget all the Sovereign National Conference etc theories, after all this is not the only artificial contraption called a nation)

Who knows? Maybe, just maybe, if the populace started protesting for the white man to come back, it will make our leaders sit up.

t4cash:

For me, the question should not be :"Wasn't Colonialism a Good thing" it should be "Isn't Recolonisation a Good idea?"

Because given the track record of Nigeria since the white man left (let me not even include the other African countries), if you put up a referendum today asking whether the white man should be invited to come back and rule us, it will be passed FIAMMM! By a landslide. I mean if the vote is a true democratic referendum. I personally will vote against it but I bet the majority of Nigerians will go for a Bill Clinton or even Bush than these leaders who we have. Quite sad, but its our current situation.

And if this is so, all true "democrats" should be considering this option.

And let no one come with the old "Its because of bad leaders" crap. Both as leaders and followers, Nigerians have proven (so far) that we do not have what it takes to manage ourselves as an independent nation.

Those who abuse Shell, forget that if it wasnt for Shell and the white man, we would not have found Oil. And we will not have this pleasure of making easy money from something we do not work for. We would all have been forced to really make/do something. They pay royalties and tax for their operations, yet they are asked to develope the areas they work in. Haba? Why? because they still make a profit after doing so. So we leave the govt that has pocketed the tax and royalty (which is our own actual share of the business) and start attacking them. Sheer utter myopia- the curse of the black man.

The person/system that governs is not what matters. independence/colonialism/ democracy/ dictatorship are all means to an end. The end being better standard of life for the greater mass of the population aka development. Ask the Nigerians who are choosing to go and live under a Chinese autocracy. The Nigerian standard of living developed more under colonialism than under its so-called independence. So colonialism was definitely better for the greater masses. Our Independence has to prove its worth.

And so your own answer is return to colonialism?

Your comment is proof without any iota of doubt that our education system has really really really failed (as if it wasn't obvious). You an African echoing racist opinion against your own nature! Africans are inferior? Can't govern themselves? You will barter your freedom for any good government? It doesn't matter just means to an end?

Did you read the post at all? I am not inferior to anybody but as an independent nation, we have proven ourselves inferior to managing ourselves.

I was clear that "I will vote against Re-colonisation" but that sadly, Majority of Nigerians will easily vote for it.

Am I lying?

t4cash:

Did you read the post at all? I am not inferior to anybody but as an independent nation, we have proven ourselves inferior to managing ourselves.

We have not proven anything of such. Did we have an ultimatum as to when we must show we could manage ourselves because otherwise we would be declare "inferior to managing ourselves"?

t4cash:

I was clear that "I will vote against Re-colonisation" but that sadly, Majority of Nigerians will easily vote for it.

Am I lying?

Yes you're lying. You can't know that. If you won't vote for it how come others will vote for it?

Demmy, ask the millions of young people who will even sell their mother to get a visa out of Nigeria (and go anywhere whatsoever). or the millions who apply each year for visa lottery,

Did you read the post at all? I am not inferior to anybody but as an independent nation, we have proven ourselves inferior to managing ourselves

double speak at its' best. you cannot be advocating a return to colonialism and claiming not to be inferior to the white man! Nferyn rightly noted that the Japs and other Asian countries are classic examples of pple no better than us who today have risen to be the most powerful economies in the world without being colonised.
Colonialism can be said to be the root cause of the failure of most african states today:

1. collosal rape of African manpower and natural resources for the benefit of the white colonial masters.
2. The 1886 scramble for africa that divided africa ALONG COLONIAL lines as against sociocultural similarities btw the "nation states". Example are the yorubas in Nigeria and Benin republic, Hutus in Rwanda and Burundi e.t.c.
A house divided against itself shall fall! That was the divide and rule method the colonialist used to subjugate Africa by pithing different tribes against each other in the same contraption later called independent states. The greatest antithesis to development is internal strife, which is the bane of Africa's underdevelopment today.

The Asian states we talk about today are largely homogenous societies and that is why they are world powers today. Virtually all countries of the world are homogenous nations EXCEPT africa where countries are divided along tribal lines!
Imagine Jews, Germans and Palestinians living within the same nation!\
The same scenario is playing out in Iraq today with the Shi'ites and Sunnis pithed against each other!

Sorry David,

i never double speak. And I dont play the blame game. In my life, I never blame anyone for my failures. Bad Stuff happens (yes to even innocent people), deal with it.

When will we stop blaming the white man? And start blaming ourselves? In 1000 years time? In 1 million years time?

t4cash,

i recommend you immediately proceed to begin work on a plantation as a slave worker for the incoming colonialists.
please prepare to leave by early light 2moro on the ship MV portugal bound for the plantations of the newWorld. You will be bound in chains and gagged for the 2 week journey. your name taken from you and u'll be given the name of ur new master!
Your relatives meanwhile will be allowed to remain in Nigeria as househelps to the new colonial masters who will not hesitate to whip them if need be.
Do not worry if all the oil in the nigerdelta is drilled and shipped too America, it is all part of their attempt to civilise us barbarians.
Please don't forget to give up the rubber plantations to the French when they come.

May i remind you that you will need a pass to move about in your new slave camp.
those left behind in nigeria will have access only to the "colored" sections of amenities brought by the colonialists.

You must consider yourself very funny.

But the unfunny truth is that Nigerians living abroad today are in the modern version of slavery. and people like you who refuse to be honest instead of blaming some white men, do not help issues. I once thought like you, when I was younger until I realised that the bad leaders (and followers) actually prefer this kind of thinking on a blame-others level. It keeps the people busy while the rot continues.

I may have to also move abroad soon to join these people and believe me, though this will be for a top job, I consider it sending myself to this modern version of slavery. So you may get your wish.

BTW, The true story of Slave Trade is that Africans sold their brothers and the slaves' kin did nothing. Just as some of our leaders today are forcing us abroad today.
I can not see where you live, but if it abroad please dont forget to tell us how much you the white man is paying for you.

Ah! I just saw that you live in the USA. Nuff said.

Dear T4cash, i might not be able to tell u exactly how much i'm paid here. but it might interest you to note that as a STUDENT i earn much more than many college graduates here!

t4cash:

You must consider yourself very funny.

But the unfunny truth is that Nigerians living abroad today are in the modern version of slavery. and people like you who refuse to be honest instead of blaming some white men, do not help issues. I once thought like you, when I was younger until I realised that the bad leaders (and followers) actually prefer this kind of thinking on a blame-others level. It keeps the people busy while the rot continues.

I may have to also move abroad soon to join these people and believe me, though this will be for a top job, I consider it sending myself to this modern version of slavery. So you may get your wish.

BTW, The true story of Slave Trade is that Africans sold their brothers and the slaves' kin did nothing. Just as some of our leaders today are forcing us abroad today.
I can not see where you live, but if it abroad please don't forget to tell us how much you the white man is paying for you.

My dear sir, excuse yourself! If you wish to hold your opinoins, then so be it, no one shall rescue a man who enjoys drowning but I am not a modern day slave. What bullshit! If you knew that American slavery or even Carribean or S. American slavery was, you would be ashamed of your words.

I've been following this thread and I do not think that davidlyan and others are trying to (completely) blame the "white man" for Nigeria or Africa's modern day woes, instead they are answering the question: Was Colonization Such a Bad Thing Afterall? Also, they are not looking only at the negatives and not hte positives. Instead the emphasis they place on the positives and sometimes the categorization of the something as post or neg. is different from your own. This is a matter of perspective, is it not? It needn't be a sign of one's ignorance; remember, light reflects and hits are eyes at different angles.

But before we speak of Ijaw men terrorizing the "generous" Shell oil men, let us ask ourselves how Shell got to be in their land. What has Shell done for the Ijaw? Am I to like a man who beats me, sha? What rubbish. But you have said that it is the govt that is holding us/Ijaw back, not the Shell corp. Who has held this govt together? Not the Nigerian people (as you dully pointed out) w/ their Biafran War and many coups. No the people have shown time and time again that this govt is not worth saving, up until recent. But foreign, European, powers holds it up and loans it money to keep the people, f*ck that let's be real, the OIL together. What would the West be w/o it's oil. What would Shell be? Why not look up the IMF and World Bank before telling me that "we've made our own bed" and that Nigeria "should be recolonized". My dear sir, you do NOT have the ear of the people if you think that the populace would endorse this.

Who told you this "true" story of the African slave trade? I suspect it is UNtrue b/c you lump all of Africa and the African slave trade together, something only an ignoramous would do. Do you not know that the history of slavery in Ghana is different from that of the Congo? Nigeria? Cote d'Ivorie? etc.? Do you not know that slaves were sold be their ARAB fathers, not their African brothers? Do you not know that societies that endorsed/practiced slavery did NOT treat people as captial or SUBHUMANS? Men did not rape their daughters b/c they were "half slave" etc. I will post a reading list soon, NOT b/c some men may or weren't sold by their "brothers" but b/c most were not and your MISEDUCATION is hurting our collective soul. Yes, please leave Nigeria & settle promptly w/ a nice Oyinbo who can swallow shut garbage as truth. Feed it to your half Oyibo children and I'm sure you shall be happy. Ignorance is such bliss.

*I would tell you about the IMF and the World Bank but I fear would think that I am "blaming" our beloved "white man" so please, you are free to look it up yourself. Please do yourself a service and read extinsively from at least 3 sources. If all the sources agree, then you are not doing yourself any favors. Look at the world from a different angle, you may discover a new ray of light. Best of luck. Your journey shall be long.*

If we weren't taught their ways, how do you think we would have been living our lives right about now?

My people, I think so much of this debate is a matter of interpretation and perspective. Many of us have come to a point where we favor "European" or "white" ways and this is fine. Just b/c you favor one thing does not mean that you must denounce another. Everyday, someone does something that disgusts me but it does not make them less civilized. So the answer to the above question is: No; we would not be living THESE PARTICULAR LIVES right now. The more important question is "and so what?". We would have other lives. Remember, it is God who gives us life, NOT (the white) man, and it is WE who chose our lifestyles. Some are thinking: oh but there would be restrictions!" Yes my dear, and there are restriction right now, that is why you cannot go around naked, have an abortion, smoke indoors, drink at 15 yrs, drive at 14, walk in the dark as a woman at any age or live in a mansion depending on where you live. Life has restrictions! If we were to trade our present restrictions for others that arouse out of a different history we would not die or kill ourselves.

Someone also asked "Would Nigeria exist? Would Nairaland exist?"

The answer is prolly NO! But, again, "so what? Why must it exist?" Should Nigeria exist for its own sake? To make stamps, print money, and attend the UN? NO! Nigeria should exist for Nigerians sha! States are formed for the sake of the people, to protect and promote the interest of the ppl, not for the GLORY OF THE NIGERIA itself. We have forgotten, but more likely we never knew b/c we were FORCED into Nigeria. Remember, this is the same thing that happened to Yugoslavia, and Czechoslovakia. Now those countries are many. Is it b/c they are "inferior" or b/c they were arbitrarily put together in a way that disrespected the "self determination of native states (ppl)" (one of Pres. Wilson's 14 principles that went into forming the UN)*.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechoslovakia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Yugoslavia

I think Nairaland would still exist under a different name. We, whatever ethnicity, would still be neighbors, lovers, friends and we'd still communicate and vibe off of each other as we do now!

Where do I start?

I once thought like you boys. Especially after I read Chinweizu and so many ohers (most notably Malcolm). The white man is a murderer, etc.

Then I got deeper into progressing in life, and I realised that to succeed, you MUST to identify your own faults and change them when things go wrong, before seeking to change others. Rarely is a bad situation solely other's fault.

If the white man wronged us. So? What next? They should pay us restitution? And then? What exactly is the use of saying "The white man wronged us" "The white man wronged us". If indeed they did. What does it contribute exactly to the graduate who can't get a job. The only thing that our History should do is to counsel us to avoid the same trap.

So one day i wrote a piece in the papers titled "I am th problem". Can you boys just take a minute, pause, take a deep breath and consider for once "Am I really the problem?"

I do not think (nor have I said any where) that the white man is/was/can ever be good to blacks. I said that "Our standard of living improved faster under Colonialism than under our Independence". By all indices, this is irrevocable fact.  Our Black rulers (mostly) have been as bad as, if not worse than our white rulers. $1 is worse than $2, but $0 is worse than $1.

In fact I personally consider white people as inferior to blacks on an individual level, but corporately, it's another issue. I may be smarter than most white people but is Nigeria as a nation, better than the white nations? You see our problems are on the corporate level, and its in our interest to truthfully address these problems .

I just realised that this thread is in the racism, tribalism, sectarianism section. A lot of die-hards must frequent here, so I bet there is not going to be much converting.

BTW, This thread is about colonization not slavery. (though they are related, they are not the same). The British stopped the slave trade (to the America's) so that the Africans could be exploited by them (i.e. the British) right there in Africa. The word colony comes from the word "colon" which is the other word for "intestine". This is because colonies are supposed to be part of the "homogeneous digestive system" of an empire- In other words they are integrated into the economic system of the empire. The concept was first developed by the Romans who BTW colonized the british when they were still living in caves (i.e. "savages".

Today, Anglo saxons rule the world. they did not achieve it by whining about how the Romans enslaved and colonized them.

As my pastor would say. Turn to 3 people beside you and tell them: "Move on. Move on"

Atrocities were commited in all colonies. They must be The British do not blame the Romans

And dont think that my ideas here are academic.

If the Nigerian rulers do not get their acts together, (especially about this Niger -delta issue), the US and UK will plan and secretly overthrow them and install a puppet government in Abuja. You do not need to have a white Governor-General sitting in Abuja to be "re-colonized". The West will not just fold their hands when they know you have lost the support of your people and they need your resources.

You just keep on confusing the issues and yourself in the process. Nobody is denying the present miserable African condition or blaming whiteman for it. We are merely trying to correct the extreme view you hold that can't see anything good in Africa. Your view that you must give thanks to whiteman for your existence. And that every time you have a problem you must call on the whiteman to solve it for you because you deem yourself too inferior to think on a solution by yourself.

If you're really an African then stop blaming yourself and stop justifying the whiteman. No need. Instead THINK of a real solution to the African problems not petty, escapist and derogatory clamour for return to colonialism.

Calm down. Most of these your accusations and insinuations are just pure anger and are not synopses of my post. This is not a bolekaja. We are having an intellectual discussion. Be reflexive. Focus on my argument and attack my facts and logic.

You are entitled to your opinions and I am entitled to mine. At least we agree that we want what is best for our people. Aint we?

You cant seem to get the drift of my posts'or why some people agreed. Do you ever see how the government reacts whenever people say that "Maybe Abacha's regime was better"? It stings naturally (like it seems to be stinging you ) - it's like your wife saying "may be I was better off when I was single".

BTW, what is this your own fantastic solution, and how are you actualizing it. Since everyone can not get a visa and run away.

They came and made too many changes in a very short time.
There are somethings that can go to a mans head.

If they had found oil before 1960 they would not have left. (just by the way)

But i must admit Nigeria has seen better days in the 70s they were still trying . you could go to the hospital for eg and get free med treatment and pills.
You could go to an office and get what you wanted.
But the people are greedy.
Thats just a fact.
they say you cant miss what you dont know so if the white man had not come maybe we will not even know what we are missing.

I cannot believe what I'm reading here sometimes. Davidylan made a convincing case for the level of development found in Africa prior to colonisation. Anyway, the statement of t4cash:

t4cash:

BTW, The true story of Slave Trade is that Africans sold their brothers and the slaves' kin did nothing.

shows a complete lack of understanding of the nature of the trans-atlantic slave trade, as compared with the Muslim slave trade and systems of servitude existing within African nations.

It is important to notice that first the trans-atlantic slave trade and after that colonisation stopped that internal African societal development dead in it's tracks. Not only were completely unnatural boundaries created for the Africa nation states, but the complete system of government and education was almost a carbon copy of what was to be found in the colonisation nations.
A wester style liberal democracy only works if you have a large, educated and empowered middle class, exactly the thing the colonial masters wanted to stop developing in their colonies. That alone doomed the experiments after independence from the onset. Add to that the perverse effects of the cold war interventions and policies and the road to failed states was wide open.

t4cash, this

t4cash:

In fact I personally consider white people as inferior to blacks on an individual level, but corporately, it's another issue.

is just as bad a saying that whites are superior to blacks. Utter balony. There are no significant differences in intelligence between races (that is assuming that you een could measure intelligence adequately or that racial qualifications would be valid on biological grounds)

nferyn:


t4cash, this is just as bad a saying that whites are superior to blacks. Utter balony. There are no significant differences in intelligence between races (that is assuming that you een could measure intelligence adequately or that racial qualifications would be valid on biological grounds)

I am giving my opinion. I consider us superior to whites individually. Yes I do. There's nothing wrong with feeling superior. Its called "ego". Every human being needs some of it for motivation if competing. If you do not, how do you hope to beat your competitor? By being their equal? It only becomes a problem when you start discriminating against people on a general level.

Most Indians and Chinese do also.  .and they have used such a spirit to propel forward.

When a coach that tells his losing team "You are better than these boys", he is appealing to what I am referrin to by this. Of course being superior individually does not automatically mean being superior as a team. White men have played a better team game, when will we? This moaning about how the beat us unfairly in the past (by whatever malevolent trick) aint achieving nothing. In the mean time our fans are defecting to them. When your football team is doing badly, what happens? Do fans remember the wicked ref that blew against you last Sunday or do they start asking for the coach to go even if its to be replaced by a white (but better performing) coach? Got me ? The point in my first post was that the fans in the case (the Nigerian citizenry ) is getting to the point where they dont care who the coach is anymore- they want the results. This should challenge all those who support the coach.

It's getting so heated up here!
Let's not get too emotive,otherwise we will muddle up issues.
It's not about superiority of a race above the others,it's about colonization and its effects.
I for one has never believed that one race or ethnic group is superior to the other,although you cannot doubt that some groups of people have achieved than the others.One can put it down to history,enviroment,culture,opportunity,indeed an array of external factors.
Did anything good come out of colonialism with all its shortcomings? I would still say yes,without any fear of contradiction.
The facts are all there for all to see.
The view t4cash expressed about people voting for the whites to come back is not new.It only shows how despodent we are about how we've mismanaged  our affairs after decolonization.
Tai Solarin,the renowned critic, once said he would reccommend that the UN come and take over Africa and run it out of frustration years ago,just because of the way things were going then,it's not better even now.(Is UN not helping Chad to manage its new found oil wealth just to avoid the failure Nigeria is despite its oil?)
Sometimes I talk with some old people that lived under the white rule and I hear them expresssing the same sentiments.
Many of them believe that life under the British was better than what we have now with the self rule.
I doubt if there was any evil  the white people did that we're not doing it to ourselves on a larger scale.
Why is everybody running out of Nigeria to Europe and America despite all the indignities we suffer abroad. Go to the embassies in Lagos and Abuja and see.
I hold this view that Nigeria is a shame and an embarassment to the black race.