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| Re: Darwin's Day by PA1982(f): 10:30pm On Feb 25, 2012 |
I posted a link to how scientists know it occured. Perhaps it went over your head. Surely there is an explanation for blue eyes in humans in Genesis. |
| Re: Darwin's Day by OLAADEGBU(m): 10:36pm On Feb 25, 2012 |
PA1982: It's all about melanin, the more or less of it you have will not only determine the colour of your eyes but also the colour of your skin and hair. |
| Re: Darwin's Day by PA1982(f): 12:44am On Feb 26, 2012 |
The colour is a mutation, similar to that of yellow roses. Read the link http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080130170343.htm Here's the text so no one has to click on the link: New research shows that people with blue eyes have a single, common ancestor. A team at the University of Copenhagen have tracked down a genetic mutation which took place 6-10,000 years ago and is the cause of the eye colour of all blue-eyed humans alive on the planet today. What is the genetic mutation “Originally, we all had brown eyes”, said Professor Eiberg from the Department of Cellular and Molecular Medicine. “But a genetic mutation affecting the OCA2 gene in our chromosomes resulted in the creation of a “switch”, which literally “turned off” the ability to produce brown eyes”. The OCA2 gene codes for the so-called P protein, which is involved in the production of melanin, the pigment that gives colour to our hair, eyes and skin. The “switch”, which is located in the gene adjacent to OCA2 does not, however, turn off the gene entirely, but rather limits its action to reducing the production of melanin in the iris – effectively “diluting” brown eyes to blue. The switch’s effect on OCA2 is very specific therefore. If the OCA2 gene had been completely destroyed or turned off, human beings would be without melanin in their hair, eyes or skin colour – a condition known as albinism. Limited genetic variation Variation in the colour of the eyes from brown to green can all be explained by the amount of melanin in the iris, but blue-eyed individuals only have a small degree of variation in the amount of melanin in their eyes. “From this we can conclude that all blue-eyed individuals are linked to the same ancestor,” says Professor Eiberg. “They have all inherited the same switch at exactly the same spot in their DNA.” Brown-eyed individuals, by contrast, have considerable individual variation in the area of their DNA that controls melanin production. Professor Eiberg and his team examined mitochondrial DNA and compared the eye colour of blue-eyed individuals in countries as diverse as Jordan, Denmark and Turkey. His findings are the latest in a decade of genetic research, which began in 1996, when Professor Eiberg first implicated the OCA2 gene as being responsible for eye colour. Nature shuffles our genes The mutation of brown eyes to blue represents neither a positive nor a negative mutation. It is one of several mutations such as hair colour, baldness, freckles and beauty spots, which neither increases nor reduces a human’s chance of survival. As Professor Eiberg says, “it simply shows that nature is constantly shuffling the human genome, creating a genetic cocktail of human chromosomes and trying out different changes as it does so.” Here's a link to the original study: http://www.springerlink.com/content/2045q6234h66p744/ The thing is, this mutation occured between 6 and 10 thousand years ago. And blue eyes didn't form part of the 'original' design of humans.
Do you see the problem here? Blue eyed people are walking evidence that mutation and natural selection exist. |
| Re: Darwin's Day by OLAADEGBU(m): 5:25pm On Feb 26, 2012 |
PA1982: There is neither any problem with the creation account in the Bible nor with true science. Natural selection and mutation does occur and they are not the mechanism of your so called particle to people evolution that Darwin confused you about. |
| Re: Darwin's Day by PA1982(f): 5:53pm On Feb 26, 2012 |
^^^ What are you raving about? 'Particle to people'? You really don't get, do you? Didn't you read the link? The mutation occurred before your creationist sources claim the earth was created! |
| Re: Darwin's Day by OLAADEGBU(m): 8:05pm On Feb 26, 2012 |
PA1982: You have to come clear as to what you are yapping about. Particle to people or rather, pond-scum-to-people evolution is not as a result of mutations. PA1982: Adam and Eve our first parents, had the perfect DNA in the beginning of God's creation with no mutations until sin set in. |
| Re: Darwin's Day by jayriginal: 11:09pm On Feb 26, 2012 |
OLAADEGBU:Classic bro. Pure genius!!! Sin causes mutation, death, disease and what not. Sorry I've been away. I will try and address our issues. OLAADEGBU:Ok, I'll indulge you once more and no more. Dawkins forgot temporarily and was able to recall the 21 word title eventually. He said "oh God" which is a habit of speech. Only this morning, I was washing my car and playing Christian music. I played the entire "Fighting temptations" sound track and "the gospel according to jazz by Kirk Whallum. It would be absolutely silly to use that as proof against me because I'll be damned if I let religion come in between me and my music. Pretty much the same way me listening to music dedicated to the devil is meaningless. If I like the song, I will play it and no apologies. Dawkins said oh God. p.or.n stars say "oh my Zap.i.ng God". Kini big deal ? You should stop looking for cheap points. OLAADEGBU:I've heard a lot. I beg to be spared the repetition. I'm willing to consider new material but I doubt if you have any. OLAADEGBU:Apparently you do not get the irony here. Its immaterial what I do once you have "proven" your case. Do so asap. If I knew god existed, I would be a christian still. OLAADEGBU:Maybe so. I'm not convinced yet. Calling it a strawman doesnt make it so. Lets not debate the point. I hope my response above is satisfactory to you. OLAADEGBU:I know what DNA is. Science is not my field. Just because I cannot conclusively answer this question does not prove your god theory. It simply means I do not know. There are more knowledgeable individuals on nairaland who can provide more satisfactory answers on this issue than your holy book can. Again, I'm hoping that this is not how you intend to prove your case. Its an epic fail from conception. OLAADEGBU:A minor issue here. Saying one thing, meaning another. Its ok. I'll just say here that theres no attempt. You should learn to come to terms with the fact that some people can actually see through the cr.ap out there. As an aside, I know a christian who told me she understands where I'm coming from and she has her questions and doubts, but she chooses to believe. Infact, once I showed her a picture of the rapture (people floating up to heaven) and I asked her what she thought. She said it looked ridiculous. Get out of your small world and look around. OLAADEGBU:Like I said earlier, if I knew it existed, we wouldnt be having this conversation. I do notice an escape route you seem to be giving yourself though. I thought we were talking about your own god (of the bible) and not a generic "creator god". Do you want to prove the god you worship or merely that a god created this world ? I'm not bothered either way, but lets know what/who we are dealing with here. OLAADEGBU:Before then, you will bow to Sango's Great White Bolts of Lightning. |
| Re: Darwin's Day by OLAADEGBU(m): 1:22am On Feb 27, 2012 |
jayriginal: Everything that God created was perfect until Adam's sin brought a curse to all living things. jayriginal: Here is your hero's attempt to remember what he has forgotten when asked to give an example of how a genetic mutation can increase the information in the human genome. And when he eventually composed himself to speak he went completely off tangent answering unrelated questions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaKryi3605g?version=3&hl=en_GB |
| Re: Darwin's Day by OLAADEGBU(m): 2:16am On Feb 27, 2012 |
jayriginal: The moment you are ready to make use of the evidence 'am about to share please let me know. jayriginal: I have no problem using transcedental arguments proving God's existence but you have to tell me that you are prepared to be persuaded or not. jayriginal: If you don't understand how the information in the DNA originated simply say so. jayriginal: You do not know but you know enough that it cannot be God because you believe He does not exist?  jayriginal: I admit that many of us who say that we believe in God do live as if God does not exist. Genuine faith is known by our works. jayriginal: When I say the Creator God I mean the biblical God, the Creator of heaven and earth. He is the infinite God who is going to judge you by the Moral Law. jayriginal: Is that the god you believe in? |
| Re: Darwin's Day by OLAADEGBU(m): 2:19am On Feb 27, 2012 |
It appears here that Richard Dawkins believes in intelligent design it's just that he doesn't believe that it could be the God of the bible.  [flash=500,400] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIHiggcVZvY?version=3&hl=en_GB[/flash] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlZtEjtlirc An interview from Ben Stein's Expelled documentary. Richard Dawkins always seems to stay on top of his interviews and tends to make his interviewers look like complete idiots. Well, Ben Stein turns the tables on him this time. |
| Re: Darwin's Day by PA1982(f): 8:10am On Feb 27, 2012 |
^^^ And this proves what? OLAADEGBU: So blue eyes are a curse? |
| Re: Darwin's Day by jayriginal: 9:46am On Feb 27, 2012 |
OLAADEGBU:Two pages and you are still going round in circles. You are the one who offered to prove to me. I have called you out. I have been waiting for you to start with your proof. Do your job and dont worry about anything else. OLAADEGBU:I believe I mentioned that its not within my field. Whereas I could probably give a laymans answer to your question, for the purpose of this discussion, I choose not to. There is also a mountain of material that can be found online, but I choose not to use these because I really do not see how essential it is to this discussion. In the end, you will probably try to impress on me the complexity of DNA and then link it to your god. This will fail as I've been hinting you. OLAADEGBU:Are you trying to bait me ? I know enough to know that your god as he is described and worshiped is a man made invention. OLAADEGBU:Ok. At least we have gotten this one straight. Nobody is going to judge me or even you. But I wager that if theres a judgement day, it will be more likely that it is one of the many thousand gods you have rejected, rather than your own. As I have mentioned before, the odds are highly against you and your god. OLAADEGBU:You should know better than to ask that question. |
| Re: Darwin's Day by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:41am On Feb 28, 2012 |
PA1982: This proves that the so called atheists has deliberately rejected the biblical God who created them. PA1982: Mutations and natural selection is as a result of man's sin against God. God cursed the ground and the animals and man was sentenced to die. "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Genesis 2:17) "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return" (Genesis 3:19). |
| Re: Darwin's Day by OLAADEGBU(m): 1:04am On Feb 28, 2012 |
jayriginal: What are you worried about? Why can't you be persuaded if I prove that you actually know that God exists? Could it be that you have deliberately chosen not to believe that He exists? jayriginal: You choose not to answer this question just as you have chosen not to believe in the existence of God, no? jayriginal: You believe every other god exists but not the biblical God, could this be treason against the Most High God in disguise? jayriginal: You are playing Russian roulette with your soul. jayriginal: I know that you have chosen to believe any other thing/theory/god as long as it is not your Creator God and His Word. |
| Re: Darwin's Day by jayriginal: 9:28am On Feb 28, 2012 |
OLAADEGBU:Go ahead and prove your claim that I know god exists. OLAADEGBU:NO! I choose to speak about what I know. OLAADEGBU:I'm sure I havent given that impression anywhere on this thread or on Nairaland. Even if that was the case, Im better of believing in every other god and excluding yours. The odds are favourable to me that way. You on the other hand are in great danger. OLAADEGBU:In ignoring the other gods and singling only one out, you are taking the bigger risk. In fact at least with Russian roulette, the element of chance is present. You have simply put a fully loaded gun to your head. OLAADEGBU:Wrong again. Look bro, stop shirking your responsibility. Make with the proof already. |
| Re: Darwin's Day by FXKing2012(m): 12:03pm On Feb 28, 2012 |
Stop deceiving yourselves there is no such thing as evolution, such assertion is not supported in the Bible and is devilish. |
| Re: Darwin's Day by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:32am On Feb 29, 2012 |
jayriginal: Proof is objective but persuasion is subjective. The fact that I prove to you that you know God exists may not necessary persuade you into believing because you have chosen to not believe He exists. jayriginal: The fact that you believe in God but you don't believe that you believe in God exposes your inconsistency. jayriginal: Generally, "atheists" are strongly motivated to not believe in the biblical God who is rightly angry at them for their treason against Him. jayriginal: It is dangerous to play a game of chance with your soul, God doesn't play dice. jayriginal: Your denial of God is only an emotional reaction one. It is like a child who is about to be smacked by his dad and covers his eyes as if to say he doesn't exist. jayriginal: It is only the Holy Spirit that can open your eyes to the deep spiritual problem your are in and that will enable you come to repentance. My transcendental argument can only objectively prove that God exists, the Holy Spirit is the only One who can persuade you to be convinced. |
| Re: Darwin's Day by OLAADEGBU(m): 8:21am On Feb 29, 2012 |
OLAADEGBU: [img width=500 height=500]http://www.answersingenesis.org/assets/images/media/cartoons/after-eden/20020114.gif[/img] |
| Re: Darwin's Day by jayriginal: 10:01am On Feb 29, 2012 |
OLAADEGBU:You might as well say that since 1+1 = 2, you have proven to me the existence of your god. When I say it doesn't, you can have recourse to your above statement. Personally, I dont think you believe in god anyway. OLAADEGBU:Actually the fact that you dont believe in God, but you don't believe that you dont believe in God exposes your inconsistency. OLAADEGBU:Generally, "christians" are strongly motivated to believe in the biblical God out of the circumstances of their birth, fear of the unknown, relentless indoctrination and over active imaginations amongst others. OLAADEGBU:There are numerous gods. Your god is outnumbered and powerless. You are the one taking the risk. Quit repeating this ! OLAADEGBU:You obviously have no clue. You may continue to cherish your illusions. Your god is imaginary and exists only in your mind. Its that simple. OLAADEGBU:Well then make your objective proof and let the "holy spirit" do his thing. This is getting old. Besides, even if you dont save my "soul" there is the possibility that you might mislead someone else reading this thread into believing in your god. Its a win win for you. |
| Re: Darwin's Day by PA1982(f): 8:54pm On Feb 29, 2012 |
OLAADEGBU: So blue eyes are the result of sin? Is this a joke? FXKing2012: Blue eyes aren't asserted in the bible either. So blue eyes are devilish? |
| Re: Darwin's Day by FXKing2012(m): 9:43pm On Feb 29, 2012 |
PA1982: Having blue eyes has got nothing to do wt the devil, it's just like asking if being an albino is devilish. These are purely genetic. |
| Re: Darwin's Day by OLAADEGBU(m): 11:51pm On Feb 29, 2012 |
jayriginal: 1 + 1 = 2 is objective, rational, logical, reasonable and scientific to every right thinking person but the atheists' position is that "2" is not acceptable, every other answer may be acceptable except "2" even when you do not use other formulas or calculations to arrive at the answer. You think natural processess and chance give answers to foundational questions. jayriginal: Repeating my phrase back to me does not answer my questions. jayriginal: Simple calculations can arrive at the year of your birth. Subtract the age you will be at the end of this year from this year and this will give you the year you were born. To know the year you were born I will need to see the authentic record of your birth certificate. If you doubt your birth certificate then you know that you have a problem indeed. The Bible is God's record of all the foundational questions about the universe, earth and life that you will want to know. jayriginal: I worship and serve the Infinite Creator who created the Cosmos, including you. jayriginal: If there were no God there will be no "atheists". jayriginal: You said that genetics is not your field, let me approach it from another angle. At least you will know that Microsoft uses intelligent programmers and complex codes to create Windows operating system. The informaton in DNA is millions of times more dense and complex than the product of Bill Gates. Can you tell us how the process of evolution (that uses natural processes and the game of chance), solves the problem of complex information sequencing without intelligence? |
| Re: Darwin's Day by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:05am On Mar 01, 2012 |
PA1982: Mutations and natural selection that produces blue eyes are just variations within a kind, in this case, the human kind. |
| Re: Darwin's Day by OLAADEGBU(m): 7:57am On Mar 01, 2012 |
Atheism An atheist was spending a quiet day fishing when suddenly his boat was attacked by the Loch Ness monster. In one easy flip, the beast tossed him and his boat high into the air. Then it opened its mouth to swallow both. As the man sailed head over heels, he cried out, "Oh, my God! Help me!" At once, the ferocious attack scene froze in place, and as the atheist hung in the mid air, a booming voice came down from the clouds, "I thought you didn't believe in me!" "Come on God, give me a break!" the atheist pleaded. "Two minutes ago I didn't believe in the Loch Ness monster either!" -- J. John and Mark Stibbe |
| Re: Darwin's Day by PA1982(f): 8:05am On Mar 01, 2012 |
OLAADEGBU: Please don't deny you wrote this foolishness. It's there for all Nairalanders to see. No amount of comix from AiG will erase that fact you think blue eyes are the result of a curse. Let's talk the mutation which caused about blonde hair and the mutations which caused lactose tolerance in human adults. Also the result of God's curse, I take it? |
| Re: Darwin's Day by OLAADEGBU(m): 8:54am On Mar 01, 2012 |
PA1982: You confuse yourself because you have taken the pond-scum-to-people evolution as fact which requires new information in living things to be added to the genome. The biblical perspective explains the loss of genetic information is due to the curse in the book of Genesis chapter 3. We observe that mutations produces defects or mistakes in the genome and not a net gain as evolution expects to see. Mutations actually confirm the Bible and reminds us of the curse in Genesis 3. The mutations that accrued from generations past is due to man's sin. Simples  |
| Re: Darwin's Day by jayriginal: 9:52am On Mar 01, 2012 |
OLAADEGBU:The problem is that "god" is not an objective, rational or logical concept. Also, you really do not understand the "atheists' position". You are burdened with the wrong idea of what it means to be an atheist. OLAADEGBU:These so called foundational questions have no bearing on my lack of belief in "god". I couldnt care less about evolution or big b@ng theories. They are not the reason I stopped believing. I simply hold them as more plausible than all the creation myths put together. I've posed this question before but since you are yoruba (apparently) I might as well ask you why you reject the story that Obatala (?) came with a chain and a chicken and a snail shell of sand. I believe you know the rest of the story. How come you reject that one but accept an equally (possibly more) ridiculous version of some disembodied voice speaking things into existence and creating things from clay OLAADEGBU:You didnt ask one. You made an assertion and I took the liberty of customizing it for you. OLAADEGBU:Yup, like you asserting that blue eyes are caused by a curse. The bible is mans word about god. So also is the Quran and all the so called holy books. OLAADEGBU:You are entitled to your opinions. Just to make sure the goal posts are not deftly shifted, I'll quote you again OLAADEGBU:_____________ OLAADEGBU:A clever statement but I wont let you get away with it. We might also say if there were no Harry Potter, there would be no books and movies about him. I dont believe in Allah neither do you, so concerning Islam for instance, you are atheist (maybe a-allah). Therefore by applying your logic, Allah exists cos you dont believe in him. Also all the other gods you dont believe in now exist by virtue of your unbelief in them. Nice one Ola, you have now "unbelieved" these gods into existence and they are now angry with you for your rejection of them. OLAADEGBU:Aha! Anticipated earlier. See below. jayriginal: You presume to know how I think, which is why you have laboured strenuously under the illusion that you can prove that I believe or know god. If you would shed your assumptions, you would find that you have undertaken the impossible. It would seem you already know that, as Ive been asking you for quite a while to get on with it and you have been pussyfooting. Neither semantic gymnastics nor linguistic acrobatics will be of any use to you in your quest. Sophistry wont help either. |
| Re: Darwin's Day by Enigma(m): 1:25pm On Mar 01, 2012 |
@ Olaadegbu I don't know if you've seen it already but here is something you might find interesting. [flash=400,300]http://youtube.com/v/gqqr-Vl-CYM[/flash] |
| Re: Darwin's Day by mazaje(m): 1:54pm On Mar 01, 2012 |
OLAADEGBU: Mutation that causes blonde hair and the mutations which caused lactose tolerance in human adults are all as a result of sin, eh?. . . Does OLAADEGBU know that even the Jews that created the genesis mythology do not believe in original since hypothesis?. . .Pls explain to us how sin causes mutation(detailed mechanism). . . .Enough of your nonsense. . . . PA1982: Its all a result of sin, remember how all languages were created at once because Yahweh was scared of the ancient people building a tower and seeing him hiding in the clouds?. . .Remember how Adam named all the animals in the world. . . . |
| Re: Darwin's Day by DeepSight(m): 6:41pm On Mar 01, 2012 |
Why is anyone wasting energy over Dawkins, one of the most unintelligent people on the planet? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? |
| Re: Darwin's Day by PA1982(f): 8:47pm On Mar 01, 2012 |
OLAADEGBU: You are really quite ignorant so I'm not surprised you make such an error as this We observe that mutations produces defects or mistakes in the genome and not a net gain as evolution expects to see. Original human have brown eyes. One colour. Via mutations, they now have brown, grey, blue or green eyes. Four colours. From one to four is a net gain. Now explain to us why lactose tolerance is not a gain, either. I'm sure you an interesting explanation for male n i p p l e s, too. |
| Re: Darwin's Day by Nobody: 11:54pm On Mar 01, 2012 |
OLAADEGBU: |
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