aribisala0:
Who is us ? All those links I posted are they not Igbo.? Is cosmos not Igbo ? Better to hear from an Igbo man even if he is OSU than an Yoruba from Owerri?NO?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7977734.stm

http://www.christianvoicenewsonline.com/?p=186
Why should you lie after all according to you it is no different from Having an Oba of Benin? It is a good thing to be admired!!
http://www.amazon.com/The-Osu-Caste-Discrimination-Igboland/dp/0595459218

Like ChinenyeN wrote earlier, Osu is best studied as history than what you seem to be making out of it. The Igbo society is a very westernized one today . Don't fall prey to "419 online" osu, widows, refugees, sick and orphans. Pay a visit to Igboland or ask your brothers serving there to tell you if osu is noticeable.

Abagworo:

Like ChinenyeN wrote earlier, Osu is best studied as history than what you seem to be making out of it. The Igbo society is a very westernized one today . Don't fall prey to "419 online" osu, widows, refugees, sick and orphans. Pay a visit to Igboland or ask your brothers serving there to tell you if osu is noticeable.

What seems clear is this is something many do not wish to speak about hoping it will just disappear. But without accepting that it was evil, rather being defiant,defensive or even confrontational as in your case where you have somehow contrived to bring Yorubas into it. Possibly the Yorubas are responsible somehow

aribisala0:
What seems clear is this is something many do not wish to speak about hoping it will just disappear. But without accepting that it was evil, rather being defiant,defensive or even confrontational as in your case where you have somehow contrived to bring Yorubas into it. Possibly the Yorubas are responsible somehow

I've not in any way brought anyone to anything. What is difficult for you in traveling to any Igbo village of your choice from Agbo to Arochukwu to have a 1st hand knowledge since you don't believe what culture-minded Igbos like me and ChinenyeN have told you here? If I ask of something about Ijebu and you give me your answer, will I dispute it? I can either visit Ijebu or ask my brother in Ijebu to confirm. You can open a thread in the NYSC section titled "Has any corper ever seen Osu discriminated against in Igboland?" I guarantee you 99% of corpers will not even know what Osu is.

Abagworo:

I've not in any way brought anyone to anything. What is difficult for you in traveling to any Igbo village of your choice from Agbo to Arochukwu to have a 1st hand knowledge since you don't believe what culture-minded Igbos like me and ChinenyeN have told you here? If I ask of something about Ijebu and you give me your answer, will I dispute it? I can either visit Ijebu or ask my brother in Ijebu to confirm. You can open a thread in the NYSC section titled "Has any corper ever seen Osu discriminated against in Igboland?" I guarantee you 99% of corpers will not even know what Osu is.

But YOU did bring OBAS and the ENGLISH MONARCHY into it. According to you they are similar practices to Osu-Ism
What makes you think I have not sampled opinion widely. Chinenye has admitted his IGNORANCE of the issue quite clearly if you read his quotes, Besides Chinenye has been,when convenient, a proponent of the idea that there is no ONE IGBO NATION preferring to identify himself as Ngwa primarily. Certainly Nri people and Ezza people have different notions/experiences of the practice so there is NOT one perspective .

Let us rephrase you questions and substitute OSU with the word Igbo , and Igboland with Nigeria and ask Hausa or Fulani the same question. I wonder what they will say
You almost sound like a white man telling me there is no racism in America after all you voted Obama or I should ask any Chinese Americans whether they have seen Black People discriminated against. There is such a thing as Scientific Inquiry quite distinct from voodoo inquiry

aribisala0:

But YOU did bring OBAS and the ENGLISH MONARCHY into it. According to you they are similar practices to Osu-Ism
What makes you think I have not sampled opinion widely. Chinenye has admitted his IGNORANCE of the issue quite clearly if you read his quotes, Besides Chinenye has been,when convenient, a proponent of the idea that there is no ONE IGBO NATION preferring to identify himself as Ngwa primarily . Certainly Nri people and Ezza people have different notions/experiences of the practice so there is NOT one perspective .

I can see you do not want any logical conclusion to this. Issue. ChinenyeN like every other sane Igbo has never denied being Igbo. The issue has always been the definition of Igbo and ascribing a generalized trait to a diverse Igbo ethnic group instead of looking at It from the point of view of the distinct building blocks. Ngwa is not Ikwerre and Ikwerre is not Isoma and Oratta is not Isu and Isu is not Aro and Aro is not Etche and Etche is not Izzi and Izzi is not Ndoki. All these people are different but in general are Igbos. There is no particular tribe known as Igbo among them all.

aribisala0: Chinenye has admitted his IGNORANCE of the issue quite clearly if you read his quotes

Come again? I know I stated that the practice of Osu scarification is news to me (because the traditional perspective I'm familiar with doesn't practice that), but in no instance did I admit any kind of ignorance regarding the Osu institution itself. I think you should reread.

ChinenyeN:
Come again? I know I stated that the practice of Osu scarification is news to me (because the traditional perspective I'm familiar with doesn't practice that), but in no instance did I admit any kind of ignorance regarding the Osu institution itself. I think you should reread.

Perhaps you should read more clearly.You have admitted ignorance what you may wish to qualify is the scale and scope of your ignorance. Certainly in my reading you admitted ignorance and even described it as "PHANTOM" and of "HISTORICAL" signifiance only

Abagworo:

I can see you do not want any logical conclusion to this. Issue. ChinenyeN like every other sane Igbo has never denied being Igbo. The issue has always been the definition of Igbo and ascribing a generalized trait to a diverse Igbo ethnic group instead of looking at It from the point of view of the distinct building blocks. Ngwa is not Ikwerre and Ikwerre is not Isoma and Oratta is not Isu and Isu is not Aro and Aro is not Etche and Etche is not Izzi and Izzi is not Ndoki. All these people are different but in general are Igbos. There is no particular tribe known as Igbo among them all.

"Logical" meaning your perspective. You have a twisted opinion of what is logical since you have made it clear there is as much injustice in the Osu Institution as in why you cannot become the next Ooni of Ife. Next you will be asking why Dangote's children and not YOU should inherit his wealth since that is a great and Osu-like injustice too.

You really are a champion of Logic and I love the mine you laid for Chinenye. Anyway he is probably the best person to comment on his sanity and Igboness

@Aribisala0
I assume you are looking for credible and updated information on the issue of Osu as was practice decades ago.

Culture is dynamic, Igbos were previously traditional worshipers of Amadioha, Ihuala, Ohajioku and many other deities, times have changed and Igbos are now predominately Christians with different beliefs and lifestyles.

Osu is now history, as every Igbo who have heard, studied or practiced the discrimination has come to understand that it was a grave injustice that shouldn't have been in the first place by virtue of the adopted Christian beliefs.

The practice is over as Igbo Children are being taught that everybody is equal under the sun. Nobody inquires if anyone is Osu before marriage is contracted as it's no longer an issue.

Ngwakwe: @Aribisala0
I assume you are looking for credible and updated information on the issue of Osu as was practice decades ago.

Culture is dynamic, Igbos were previously traditional worshipers of Amadioha, Ihuala, Ohajioku and many other deities, times have changed and Igbos are now predominately Christians with different beliefs and lifestyles.

Osu is now history, as every Igbo who have heard, studied or practiced the discrimination has come to understand that it was a grave injustice that shouldn't have been in the first place by virtue of the adopted Christian beliefs.

The practice is over as Igbo Children are being taught that everybody is equal under the sun. Nobody inquires if anyone is Osu before marriage is contracted as it's no longer an issue.

If that is what you believe fine.I do not believe that and I see nothing in what you have said to change my mind.You provide no evidence and ignore all the links I provided . Clearly what you describe is an Ideal but very different from reality.

OSUISM is ALIVE and KICKING

Thank you for confirming what I thought about you.

aribisala0: If that is what you believe fine.I do not believe that and I see nothing in what you have said to change my mind.You provide no evidence and ignore all the links I provided . Clearly what you describe is an Ideal but very different from reality.

OSUISM is ALIVE and KICKING

Ngwakwe: Thank you for confirming what I thought about you.

I think there is an adult way to debate and a childish way.This is a faceless forum.I do not agonize about you and even less about your opinions of me. Not even for one second.
There is a subject of debate here. I have opinions and you have yours.If you want to advance your views do so with facts and logic,in short like an adult. You did not have to quote me.Just throw your views into the mix. All we hear from you is opinion without factual or logical buttress followed by an immature tantrum.

I admire your way of debate in that you present documented evidence of past events with substantiated opinions. But there is one thing that is constant which is CHANGE.

The people on ground have told you that Osu was real but is no more because of education and christian beliefs. You have also been told to send emissaries to investigate or inquire of the updated information about the practice (not historic existence) of Osuism if you cannot agree to the submissions of many Igbos on this board.

I was of the opinion that you want to know more about it as practiced today but was then convinced that you were all out to argue on its existence which nobody is denying.

aribisala0:
I think there is an adult way to debate and a childish way.This is a faceless forum.I do not agonize about you and even less about your opinions of me. Not even for one second.
There is a subject of debate here. I have opinions and you have yours.If you want to advance your views do so with facts and logic,in short like an adult. You did not have to quote me.Just throw your views into the mix. All we hear from you is opinion without factual or logical buttress followed by an immature tantrum.

Ngwakwe: I admire your way of debate in that you present documented evidence of past events with substantiated opinions. But there is one thing that is constant which is CHANGE.

The people on ground have told you that Osu was real but is no more because of education and christian beliefs. You have also been told to send emissaries to investigate or inquire of the updated information about the practice (not historic existence) of Osuism if you cannot agree to the submissions of many Igbos on this board.

I was of the opinion that you want to know more about it as practiced today but was then convinced that you were all out to argue on its existence which nobody is denying.

Since you admire it why not emulate and do the same. The information I presented is not from 1914 is it? It is quite recent ; circa 2009-2011.
Why not present evidence of your own.
You are doing nothing more than stating opinions which I quite simply will not buy.
If I want to know more do I strike you as the sort of person that swallows opinions from "people on the ground" as you call them.
Did Ezeagu not state on this thread that it is very much around. Is he not "ON GROUND" perhaps he is "AIRBORNE".
It is normal to seek or countenance evidence that reinforces our views and to reject all else.That is human nature.Truth is not always sympathetic to human nature.

Can you ask Ezeagu to tell us when and how it happened.

If it still happen in Ezeagu's part of Igboland, it's a history in Ngwaland the biggest homogenous clan in Igboland.

Somebody can say that Africa is still being colonized but it's literally false. But he still makes sense.

Depending on the content of questionnaire used in research. Questions like these will help in exposing the truth.

1. Do you know anybody that was recently denied his inheritance on the basis that he is Osu?

2. Any marriage engagement recently terminated due to one party being Osu.

3. Do churches encourage the practice of Osu?

The person answering these questions should be able to provide a verifiable facts.

The frequency of occurrence should also be considered.

aribisala0:
Since you admire it why not emulate and do the same. The information I presented is not from 1914 is it? It is quite recent ; circa 2009-2011.
Why not present evidence of your own.
You are doing nothing more than stating opinions which I quite simply will not buy.
If I want to know more do I strike you as the sort of person that swallows opinions from "people on the ground" as you call them.
Did Ezeagu not state on this thread that it is very much around. Is he not "ON GROUND" perhaps he is "AIRBORNE".
It is normal to seek or countenance evidence that reinforces our views and to reject all else.That is human nature.Truth is not always sympathetic to human nature.

Ngwakwe: Can you ask Ezeagu to tell us when and how it happened.

If it still happen in Ezeagu's part of Igboland, it's a history in Ngwaland the biggest homogenous clan in Igboland.

Somebody can say that Africa is still being colonized but it's literally false. But he still makes sense.

Depending on the content of questionnaire used in research. Questions like these will help in exposing the truth.

1. Do you know anybody that was recently denied his inheritance on the basis that he is Osu?

2. Any marriage engagement recently terminated due to one party being Osu.

3. Do churches encourage the practice of Osu?
The person answering these questions should be able to provide a verifiable facts.

The frequency of occurrence should also be considered.

You ask Ezeagu if you so desire

I posted enough material that you conveniently ignore.

Yes I have heard of it in Lagos from a source as credible as if I witnessed it myself ;when many protested against a particular installation of Eze Ndi-Igbo( in a medium sized Lagos community) on OSU grounds. I was not even researching the story at the time but it was narrated to me unbidden and spontaneously; By an illiterate and elderly Yoruba person leading me to make further inquiries within the affected sub community which confirmed the story .This was 2011.
Now regarding you so called research methodology.
Would that be an adequate tool to investigate marginalization of NdiIgbo in Nigeria since the end of the civil war

If an Osu can pick a form to contest for the leadership of Igbo Community that means he has never been discriminated from his people prior to that incident making the Osuism dead and buried as it never affected his upbringing nor his social status.

The example you cited was the same thing Ohakim said of Rochas during governorship election but nobody regarded it as is no longer practiced.

They also said Ararume is an Osu but he was elected twice to the NASS

aribisala0:

You ask Ezeagu if you so desire

I posted enough material that you conveniently ignore.

Yes I have heard of it in Lagos from a source as credible as if I witnessed it myself ;when many protested against a particular installation of Eze Ndi-Igbo( in a medium sized Lagos community) on OSU grounds. I was not even researching the story at the time but it was narrated to me unbidden and spontaneously; By an illiterate and elderly Yoruba person leading me to make further inquiries within the affected sub community which confirmed the story .This was 2011.
Now regarding you so called research methodology.
Would that be an adequate tool to investigate marginalization of NdiIgbo in Nigeria since the end of the civil war

Ngwakwe: If an Osu can pick a form to contest for the leadership of Igbo Community that means he has never been discriminated from his people prior to that incident making the practical dead and buried as it never affected his upbringing nor his social status.

On that note I will cease to respond to you.
That forecloses any prospect of intellectual commerce.I will not respond to any more of your quotes on the Osu matter

Osu discrimination is alive and well. I don't know why some of you insist on arguing with aribisala0 for posting the links. In Imo state, Osu discrimination is real especially when one is trying to get married to a freeborn, and that's exactly what the UN article stated. No matter how rich and might the osu is, so stop saying Igbos are westernized bla bla bla, we are not westernized anything.

From what I understand, Osu discrimination is not very big in Anambara, maybe that's where the dissenters are from.

So this Osu tin is life and kinking

So this Osu tin is life and kicking.Why igwakee come dey lie,abi na Osu

NRIPRIEST:


They were osus in Nri but am not sure if they still exist up to today,however,I am not directly from todays Nri but UMUOKODU(NKPOR,ABATETE AND UMUOJI) are decendants of Nri. Point is that ppl from Nri of today might have more knowledge of the present condition than me. But osu is still very much alive today but ppl are beginning to mingle and make friends with them but the marriage line is still very tough to cross. . . Once a time a very popular musician from there started dating a very beautiful non-osu  chic buh ol'boy hell let loose when he decided to marry her. . .her family completely disowned her but they eloped and got married in the north. . .The guy himself said nobody will stop him from marrying the chic because he is a[b] bonafide NWAFOR[/b] !! well,some said he has some serious juju!!

Watch out bro! U just called my name!

Ngwakwe:
@Aribisala0
I assume you are looking for credible and updated information on the issue of Osu as was practice decades ago.

Culture is dynamic, Igbos were previously traditional worshipers of Amadioha, Ihuala, Ohajioku and many other deities, times have changed and Igbos are now predominately Christians with different beliefs and lifestyles.

[s]Osu is now history, as every Igbo who have heard, studied or practiced the discrimination has come to understand that it was a grave injustice that shouldn't have been in the first place by virtue of the adopted Christian beliefs.[/s]

The practice is over as Igbo Children are being taught that everybody is equal under the sun. Nobody inquires if anyone is Osu before marriage is contracted as it's no longer an issue.

Quit lying. You wouldn't marry an OSU. With all the preaching and all, people go home and hold on to the belief ''as of old'' OSU is still on and the OSUs, sadly, know it.


Though, I wish this never was and I aint one

Osu is life and kinky

Our continual practice of osu caste system is dealing a blow to the issue of internal cohesion. My uncles complain of saboteurs during the civil war and Igbos acting as agents to the Gowon govt. But none of them has bordered to ask about the motivation behind their actions. I believe that the discrimination based on this ill-defined caste system called osu played a major role.

I warn Igbos and I warn umunnem again that if we don't abolish the osu caste system in Igboland. We will continue to have an army of saboteurs within u that are willing to sabotage our collective effort.


This is what many shallow thinking Igbos don't know, and had never wondered.

I have many friends who chant Biafra, yet tell you that Osu caste system must be maintained, that it's tradition.

I told them that they want to eat their cake and have it
If you maintain the caste, you create internal angry and vendetta seeking fifth columnists, who would sabotage you, to keep you in pains, just as you have sworn to keep them in pains.
I know I would do same, if in their shoes. It's common sense.

Those who seek to maintain Osu caste system in marriages, are helping to destroy the cohesion of Igbo nation, by creating army of bitter revenge seeking Igbos, willingly to do anything to make the rest of us feel their pain.

I'm so glad I wasn't the only one thinking along this line, ACM10, you are really a highly cerebral One.
I hope you are doing well, wherever you are.

Afam4eva:
I'm surprised than in 2012, some people are still behaving as if they're living in the stone age. They still discriminate against OSU and OHU people. let me know from Igbos on here: [size=16pt]Can you marry an OSU?[/size]

This has to stoop .

It is a disgrace that this practice still continues today

If ones grandfather married a third wife that is osu. And you are the grand daughter of the first wife, does that now make you osu?

We had our own osu, formerly thagichu here. I believe it relates to our time in Egypt.

advance Ngureco’s observation on the variations of the term, the following terms are synonyms of Thagichu:

Thagichu; Bagichu; Bagisu; Uasin Gishu; Athaisu; Daiso; Osu (of Nigeria)

[url][https://hubpages.com/education/Who-were-the-ancient-Thagichu-people-in-Kenyaurl]

The author is an independent researcher and thus not bound to any preconceived ideas which may be why imo he makes sense.

My theory is that the term Thagichu and its variants was used by communities with a superiority complex to subjugate others who had been disadvantaged by being small in number, poor or by other causes after migration from Egypt. Initially the term was as respectful as any other

I believe the similarity isn't just in cognates but culture.

We have seen that the Meru people also had Thaichu and Mathagala casts before dissolving into one group

Isn't that the same as your own Nwadala? Pls read twice or even thrice before responding! To me it makes sense.

Disgraceful

Lol Understanding who you is very important, in every sphere of Human existence there is a caste system in place, is just like saying that; it will be easy for an illiterate laborer to go and marry the daughter of a celebrity Pastor, or red blood wanting to Marry a Blue-blood, even your Bible warns the Jews should never marry the Canaanites...

Even in USA, they have caste system, the ruling houses and none ruling house,,,The Aborigines, in India, The Untouchable,, to name but few,, this is not discrimination is called "Classes" or clans,, The Yorubas too, Ijebu see's Ekiti as inferior to them, the Ibadan ppl, see themselves as most Superior clan to other Yoruba tribes,, quote me wrong...

It is a believe system of a people just like other tribes cannot do without, shongo and Oromila... sunnis and shias..., catholic and anglican....